Though capacitive displays are generally regarded as the easier-to-use technology for mobile touchscreens, their finger-friendliness comes at a dear price: accuracy. Because capacitive tech is incompatible with traditional styli, you're stuck fudging things with your fat digits or settling for a
high-tech finger
alternative that arguably creates as many problems as it solves. Don't worry, though -- HTC feels your pain, and it seems like they're looking to keep the classic stylus in the game as the company's lineup makes the inevitable transition to capacitive over the coming years. A new patent application describes a stylus with some sort of magnetically charged tip -- at first, we thought that sounded suspiciously like what
Wacom does for its tablets, but unlike Wacom's tech, this would function with a traditional, seemingly unmodified capacitive display. It's funny how we've all written off styli in the past couple years and now we've got HTC over here doing everything it can to save 'em -- but hey, if this means we're going to get the best of both worlds, we're all for it.
[Via
wmpoweruser.com]
posted Aug 14th 2009 12:46AM
FIRST capicative stylus with resistive accuracy?
Wow, you posted that within a Second or Two of the story being posted. Wonderful observation!
No, sorry, you still actually have to include worthwhile commentary...
Why is the transition to capacitive inevitable? Some of the newer resistive tech demos (that have been posted here) were extremely impressive...
Actually, according to the time, I posted it 9 minutes after it was posted..........nerds win the fight this time, sorry.
Joking, I'm not a nerd, lol.
Yeah. mine was a sorry attempt. I really dont get why you would want the capacitive technology when there is multi-touch, super sensitive resistive tech already available. I personally can't stand the mytouch 3G's screen. the capacitive screen is so inaccurate, I can type better on a touch diamond for Pete's sake. But until you have ever tried the Touch Pro 2's harfdare KB then you don't know how awesome mobile texting can be.
I'm not a nerd - just kidding I totally am, but not really - just kidding, only a nerd would write something like this - methinks I doth protest too much - just kidding, can I see that? is that an iPhone? Just kidding, i've owned three iPhones, including the one I lost - just kidding. no really I lost it at panera bread. I wish I'd had find my iPhone at the time because I would have totally hunted down the jerk who stole it - just kidding, i probably just set it down somewhere, but i'd track down the person who found it and and give him very disapproving stare - just kidding.
Your post reminded me of a SNL skit.
No offense intended. I'm just kidding.
I would take one for my G1. Some of the apps, the developers make the buttons too small or too close and i suffer from FFS (Fast Finger Syndrome) so i will hit the wrong button. Even the OSK on the G1 and iPhone you seem to hit the wrong key, thank god for predictive text and autocorrect.
the ridiculous thing here is that capacitive screens are actually VERY accurate, only, the fingers used as the input on the display are much larger than what is generally used for accurate inputs. The screens work on a tech that relies on the programming for complete functionality... Capacitive screens will send different kinds of information to the device than resistive. With resistive, it's pretty simple - a point of pressure is registered in the screen, and that information is sent to the device. With capacitive, the information gathered by the screen can be large masses, or multiple masses, or a small little dot... the program has to register things like a finger touch as a "blob" (as the Surface devs from Mcrosoft call them), and the point of contact is usually programmed to be the average of that blob (read: center). You can touch an on-screen button on a capacitive screen, but if your finger is half off the button, the software might read the blob's average as being off of the button, therefore not registering it. With a resistive screen, as long as the pressure point makes contact with the button first, it doesn't matter if your fat finger spills over the button graphic, or the stylus slides off of the button... the screen registered the point of pressure and sent that info away before you could mess it up.
Capacitives actually measure electric signals that move around in your skin, which is why inanimate objects won't work on them. Conversely, a resistive has a pressure threshold, which means you must press it hard enough for it to register an input. This i wh you can't lightly touch a button on a resistive with your finger. Conventional styli are just pieces of plastic and metal... capacitive styli have to replicate the electrical pattern that things like your fingers give off. I imagine that the difficulty in creating an accurate cap stylus would be to project that frequency onto the screen as small as possible.
I went off on a tangent... I just don't like it when people say capacitives aren't as accurate as resistive. They are. It's up to the software and the user to reflect how accurately they can be used. Maybe I thought that if more people knew how they worked, they would be able to use their capacitive screens more accurately. Still, a stylus is fairly necessary for something like accurate painting on a small device, and would be beneficial for things like MS Excell.
Now we know why the new Leo is coming with a CAPACITIVE touchscreen. Hurray!
Exactly what I was thinking.
I love my touch pro's resistive screen...I can use both my finger or fingernail depending on the accuracy I need. Not sure if multi-touch is really all that.
Meh, rather have resistive stylus with capacitive accuracy
That would be one shitty stylus.
are not all styluses shitty?
No, actually.
Styluses are the most accurate methods of selecting anything. Just because it's more cumbersome than using your finger doesn't discount it any less.
I like my resistive screen on my Fuze/Touch Pro... it honestly did take a little getting used to at first after having played around with friends/coworkers iPhones for a while, but now that I am used to it I actually like the somewhat firmer touch needed to activate the screen. It makes me less likely to press something by mistake, which is really easy on the iPhone. Now it feels like just brushing my hand against the iPhone screen will make random stuff happen; I feel like I have no control like I do on my Fuze.
Also, while the iPhone probably doesn't have this issue because its OS was developed from the ground up for fingers, Windows Mobile (even 6.5) still has a lot of little tiny buttons and drop down menus that make a stylus a piece of still-necessary equipment.
Your fat finger on a 3.5 inch screen isn't as accurate as you think it is
Trust me, if Apple introduced their own capacitive stylus, Mr "i" Troll would act as though it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Haha @ stylus-using on a mobile phone. How convenient! I've never had any issues with accuracy on my iPhone. Hrm.
How, exactly, is less accuracy a convenience?
Have you tried a good resistive touch screen? They are just as good, and some people prefer them. Resistive screens do support multi-touch and can be awesome. Go try the touch pro 2 out in person, you might be surprised. If you end up liking the capacitive screen like an iphone has cool, but you might just discover a whole new understanding for resistive tech (and it will only get better...).
that was a reply to "the 'i' "
Please fix this engadget!
You realize that he is just trying to provoke people?
Yeah, but you have to meet instigation with pleasantness , well you don't have to but it helps kill the flame...
It seems that this would allow for proper handwriting recognition (via stylus) on a nice capacitive touch screen. Perfect for signing a business document and shooting it off. Perhaps that is what they're going for?
Awesome, am I really the only person thats been waiting for this FOREVER?
No your not, i've been too but have been dumbfounded that everyone choose to follow in iphone's footsteps. Getting rid of the stylus to say "oh look at us we are so cool and innovative, look what can be done with your finger! Well i know what else can be done with a finger Apple!
How do you have drawing apps, sketch apps, document signing, credit card apps were you sign the receipt, etc as i said in my own post like owning a computer without the mouse.
The stylus is still useful for certain applications. Some games require better accuracy than can be achieved using your finger alone.
I also occasionally create and/or modify Excel spreadsheets for various tasks on my HTC Fuze (Touch Pro). Although you could get away with just using your finger and zooming in to tap on a cell, it is much faster to just whip out the stylus and get to work. I know that many people will never use Excel on a smartphone, but for those of us that do (my profession has turned me into an Excel Junkie), a stylus is a great tool.
I still find myself wanting to grab a stylus at meetings and corporate functions. Not just for the accuracy, but for the professional aesthetic behind it's use. Palm Pre is good, but can't wait until Sprint Touch Pro 2 hits sales.
Who wants a stylus?
Sorry, I had to.
People who like to type words properly without the auto-correct buggering it up?
Imagine saving so much time by not having to zoom in from a full page web site just to click on a small link on your iPhone. You can do pin point selection using a stylus. Then again the page might be full of flash...well then, a stylus wont help ya.
On another note, if its some kind of pressure sensative function this would be great for artist who want a portable sketch book.
People who want to draw on their phone and not have it look like a smudged watercolour painting.
"Who wants a stylus?"
Me. iPhone doesn't have the capabilities to do what I need; I need a phone with more advanced capabilities and more precision. The people who use their phones for fart apps shouldn't define the standard for those of us of need technically complex devices for advanced tasks.
This is interesting, but how long until we actually see it? I wonder if the Apple tablet with have a stylus/pen.
Pogo stylus isn't accurate enough. It's an improvement over fat fingering things but it still needs too much surface area to work.
?
What about Pogo's stylus? It uses a conductive material to simulate a finger, right? Doesn't that allow for adequate response? The tip is sponge-like, so a making a stylus with a tip like a regular sharpie or a sharpie pen would allow for precise pointing. Did HTC just come up with a magnetic approach to avoid licensing fees?
The finger-friendliness and multitouchability of capacitive, and the pen-likeness of resistive
Someone get miley cyrus in here, cause HTC is giving us
...
Oh my God you guys
....
wait for it
...
THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!!1!11!11111
(I whole-heartedly apologive for that....typing it caused sharp pains in my chest, but I just couldn't help myself)
THE BEST THE BEST THE BEST
http://www.ichannel.ca/files/ichannel/u1/dave_grohl_narrowweb__300x459_0.jpg
correction, iphone isn't a smart phone
Great. Would be nice to use the stylus to jot down quick notes instead of fat fingering the on-screen keyboard.
Or doodle...
It isn't a Smart Phone.
Why do we have to 'move on' to capacitive touch screens!? Resistive screens are so much better in accuracy, easy of use (none of that sticky glass layer crap)... once they get that multi-touch tech implemented on all resistive screens there won't be much left to beat them!
Besides... we're talking about a stylus here, but with a resistive screen you can use anything you like to press the screen. Capacitive? - just your ungloved finger.
One problem I see with resistive is that they have relatively poor transmissive properties. This could be their Achilles's Heel assuming that the Pixel Qi [or other daylight readable technologies] become popular enough.
i have long nails, so capacitive screen isn't an option for me :(
trimmed my nails all the way to the flesh, but the nails still get in the way of my finger tips... :(
My Dell XT laptop already does this? Spring based magnetic linked pressure sensitive stylus with a true capacitive screen to interface to?
Still, no-one really wants a phone stylus these days unless it's a professional tool where people need to sign things...
Yes, but your XT has multiple input layers; Capacative, (probably) resistive, AND a wacom-style layer designed to work with a digitiser (your pen).
On a phone, it's simply not feasable. it would be too expensive, suck too much power, and be too bulky for practical use. On a laptop, it's fantastic, anything smaller, not so much.
"the best of both worlds"? What's the benefit of a capacitive touch-screen on a screen so small?
I hope this patent doesn't indicate that there are still really small UI elements in WM7. I hope its just so people can have the best of both worlds and it wont be a requirement.
Some WM programs will always require the accuracy of a stylus.
Just try being productive with Excel Mobile without a stylus.
I'd love to see that.
Furthermore, I've used the iPhone for inscribing / note taking with my fingers, and it's just a pitiful sight to behold.
Sufficed to say, it leave much to be desired in terms of accuracy.
On that note, ever think of many parts of the world (such as in the Orient) where they often times need character recognition / conversion? Believe me, the iPhone's capacitive screen simply DOES NOT CUT IT.
A resistive multi-touch screen really is the future.
The tech already exists, has been demoed, and is fully functional -- now it simply needs to be implemented in upcoming devices / OS's.
Plus, fingerpainting Chinese is just wierd / nasty. There's plenty of alternative input methods, but there's something for just plain writing the characters.
That title brings back bad memories of high school chemistry class, when we learned the difference between accuracy and precision. In this case, I think it should say capacitive screen with resistive precision.
I'd buy this if it cost $10 or less, it would be helpful when playing flash games made for PCs on my phone, some of them have really small buttons
awesome, a 12 inch stylus!
Has anybody seen one of these styluses (stylii?) in action yet? The fact that the patent application was recently published means HTC has been working on the idea for at least 18 months, if not longer. The priority Taiwanese patent application was filed December 2007, so for all we know the stylus may already be out there in the wild...
How is it they can patent something that is an obvious solution to the problem... and has been thought of, and discussed before?
The patent process baffles me.
finally, some intelligence. For all the genius Apple thinks it is, why didn't they think of this first? There are many reasons to have a stylus. Its like owning a computer and not the mouse. Sure you can use keys on your keyboard to navigate and get things done but it is way easier to use a mouse. Same goes for the stylus. I wish Apple has the sense to include one like this in the next iphone, but i doubt it since giving consumers a choice is against their corporate mission. Well, i take that back they do give you 2 choices one to buy it and settle for mediocre and what they feel you should have or the choice to walk away and not buy one. Did i mention using a stylus is a lot more sanitary.
I'm very glad to see HTC filing that patent. I'd been worried they jumped on the banish-the-stylus bandwagon.
I am a long term Mac user, big fan blah blah. But no way an iPhone user... at least until it grows up.
One_Finger_Stabbing of your One-App-at-a-Time iPhone ... strictly for the One-Of-The-Gang types: limited horizon pre-defined by your fashion accessory. But a beautiful presentation of course.
Handwriting recognition: can't believe I saw only one mention of it on this page... it's a non starter on an iPhone/capacitive screen by comparison with a resistive screen (as things stand).
... e.g. Calligrapher software (by Phatware) allows much quicker input than any mini qwerty (on-screen or physical) - and you are formulating thoughts & thinking like you do ONLY when you can write by hand.
You have the chance to be a dog that wags your tail, not a dog wagged by your iTail.
But it takes just a little effort to get those rewards ... an iPhone computing experience offered by one stab at a time input cannot yet do this. I hope & expect it to improve eventually, but the design philosophy heavily weighted towards interface seems to have knobbled it for the forseeable. I still think HTC & others offer better options for the near future with the HD2 etc.