Yes, even the best cameraphones take crappy pictures by camera standards, but there's one thing phones will always have over their more optically-adept cousins: convenience. The fact that you always have your phone with you, it can often geotag, and it's got an always-on, always-available data connection for uploads to photo sharing sites are all factors giving handsets an edge in the fight to dominate Flickr. Add in the fact that we're approaching just-good-enough picture quality for everyday use on the upper end of the phone spectrum with the latest 5, 8, and 12 megapixel models, and, well... you've got a recipe for an upset. After briefly showing it having pulled ahead yesterday, Flickr's stats currently have the
iPhone in all its flavors neck-and-neck with Canon's
Digital Rebel XTi for upload popularity after a stark, sudden jump presumably spearheaded by the launch of the 3GS -- and given the trending we're seeing, it seems like it's just a matter of time before the iPhone pulls ahead for good. Granted, Flickr's pooling all iPhone models into a single stat, which isn't really fair -- philosophically, that's not much different from grouping every Digital Rebel together -- but the fact remains that this speaks volumes about the modern cameraphone's value as a serious photographic tool.
[Via
pocket-lint and
Los Angeles Times]
posted Aug 18th 2009 7:09AM
Isn't it a bit unfair lumping separate iPhone models together? Why not lump all the Canon Rebels together?
You're right, flickr doesn't seem to differentiate between the iPhone, iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS. Then you could also, realistically, further seperate the models by storage size.
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/apple/iphone/
that does make sense. The newest iPhones have different cameras than the older iPhones, so why aren't those categorized as a separate camera?
Booooo
(happy Rebel XSi owner)
I agree the lumping all iPhones together as one model makes these statistics meaningless.
Its a Fraud! If Flicker would have split the 3 iPhone's in seperated sections this graph would have been totally different!
Seriously, who gives a monkey about how many pictures a particular model of camera has had uploaded to Flickr? This isn't some sort of competition and there is no prize for winner. All that is important is that these images are being archived and shared. The rest of it is just unimportant fluff.
Lets lump all DSLRs together and see who wins xD
xD already lost to SD. Big time.
@infocentral
genius.
pure genius
but cam phone pictures are atrocious the noise, color, awb, flash and lack of manual control are typically poor. but at least it's there as a candid camera phone.
May be because they cannot automatically differentiate them (iPhones) from the EXIF data.
@ Dr Chagas - why on Earth would you further differentiate iPhones based on their storage size? Does that mean that all other cameras should be separated based on what size memory card they have inserted? No-one is disputing the obvious fact - that the Rebels should be grouped if the iPhones are (or, better, have both differentiated). But splitting the iPhones based on storage, while leaving cameras grouped despite different memory card sizes, would just introduce a different sort of unfairness, and it is the unfairness that people have been arguing against.
Even the best? What the hell are you talking about, Ziegler? I can understand that all your Nokia phones have rubbish cameras but take a look at the Samsung i8910. Now that's a quality cameraphone.
Nokia fanboy.
So you're saying that a sensor the size of a pinhead will give better pictures than an 4/3 SLR sensor, or a point and shoot? He makes a valid point that even the best cameraphones are not in the same league as a half decent point & shoot, let alone the dedicated cameras on that chart.
What are you talking about? Nokia's 5 MP cams are almost perfect, i now own an i8910 and i must say i was happier with my Nokia N95's camera even though it had 3 MP less. The i8910's pictures in good lighting conditions are perfect, but i am not at all happy about how it sometimes screws up the focus in bad light conditions.
Besides, when did Chris even mention Nokias?
Jibbajabba, I agree about the i8910HD, it has a great camera and such. But come on, most Nokia's have a Carl Zeiss lens. The camera quality is in my opinion good enuff.
Dpreview doesnt think that Nokia phone image quality is rubbish.
http://blog.dpreview.com/editorial/2009/07/new-nokia-heralds-camerphone-convergence.html
No other phone manufacturer has dared to contact them...
Nokia makes some good phones, but as far as picture quality, there are mostly mediocre, with very few exceptions.
Even the N86 (which Nokia claims is their best cameraphone) loses to Samsung's Innov8 (which is like Samsung's third best cameraphone, if that):
http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n86_8mp-review-366p7.php
Some of their cheaper models or the E series are just ridiculously bad, tho (as far as picture quality, other than that they are great phones).
"But come on, most Nokia's have a Carl Zeiss lens"
So what? The lens doesn't make a damn bit of difference when its image falls on a crappy, puny, NOISY chip in a cell phone.
Don't be so gullible.
And by the way,
apostrophe + S = possessive
@G, "almost perfect?" Hah, buy a real camera. Seriously.
i meant perfect as far as what you can wish for from a phone :P
of course even the cheapest cameras are better, but some phones lately are decent replacements
This indicates nothing but one thing! That is
iPhone HAS WON THE SMARTPHONE WAR!
How did you dare to compare these two? This is called "comparing apples with oranges".
That graphs simply shows how many people upload photos using that particular camera.
Obviously more people have iphones that REBEL XTi's.
Thank you, Captain Points-Out-Nothing-Everyone-Didn't-Already-Know.
(I didn't want to use Captain Obvious. I would have felt like I were in middle school.)
Ah, the ever-so-trendy "middle school". Is this some effort to sound more European? Because in the U.S. we have
elementary school
junior high school
high school
college
@Information Central:
You're a douche. More people call it Middle School than Junior High School. Sorry you were in a minority and went to a school that actually went by the tag Junior High School. I wouldn't be proud of trying to talk up America's education system like you are, because it blows.
@Information Central: They used to call it "junior high school" at least in my area. But since like 2 decades or more ago, it's just middle school now. Dean Middle School. Cook Middle School, etc. This is Texas btw.
I'm American and I call it Middle School. Junior High School is just a stupid name.
Information Central is anything but.
Why in the world would anyone (other than an actor) try to sound European? I don't even know what that means, anyway. Last time I checked, European isn't something one can sound like; it's not a nationality and it doesn't have an accent or style of speech.
Anyway, I don't think anyone's called it "junior high" since my parent's generation. (I'm 17.)
This is sad, not something to celebrate. The still and video images produced by mobile phones (except the Samsung Tocco Ultra etc, Sony Ericsson K800i, C905 and some Nokias) offer nothing to match that of a good point and shoot, DSLR or camcorder. The reason this is sad is not because it effects the quality of photography (there are plenty of great shots from camera phones), it is because a whole generation are archiving images and videos of lesser quality than in the past or capable with dedicated devices. So, future generations will be viewing images and video from today that is inferior and lacking in detail. You won't be able to zoom in to see that distant face, or slow down the video to freeze a frame. Worse, the iPhone still and video capture is lower resolution than other phones launched earlier or at the same time. The reason so many iPhone images are being uploaded is because if there is one thing Apple get right, it is making it easy to do something - and blogging content is easy from the iPhone.
Apple need to do photography a favor and ensure iPhone 4 has a 5MP or greater camera with a flash and more control over the exposure. And HD video!
Right, Other companies has already incorporated HD and upto 8 mega pixels in mobile phones, why not apple doing it?
Sorry but I disagree. Sure, it would be nice if all cameras produced amazing images but I will argue that it is better that we have low quality images than no images at all. Cameraphones do not produce the sort of image quality that you will get with a "proper" camera but they are convenient and they capture memories that may otherwise be lost. This is not some insult to photography.
There are probably just as many photos from DSLR's etc., and now lots of photos are being taken with mobile devices in addition. In other words, there are more photos "archived for a future generation", some bad, some good: lots of both.
(P.S. More megapixels does not necessarily equal better image quality or more resolution.)
"this speaks volumes about the modern cameraphone's value as a serious photographic tool"
Yes, it does in that it still isn't a serious tool, I mean, have you seen the crap that people upload with camera phones (not just iphones, but as they are the largest group they deserve the largest proportion of the blame).
Sure, there are some nice shots but it's mainly convenient detritus when compared to a camera that is over 3 years old (July '06 for the XTi).
Mostly agreed. A smartphone is not a "serious photographic tool". Under no circumstances will you see a professional wedding photographer attempting to take pictures using a mobile telephone, for example. A smartphone with a camera provides a tool that you can use when nothing else is available, and the ability to send the results immediately to other people is undeniably handy. However, the image quality is not good enough to be considered "serious" any more than a standard point-n-shoot compact camera can be considered "serious". I simply consider it to be a "handy photographic tool" but if I was going to try and take a picture to show off then I'd want my D90.
Well said!
Yeah, exactly. All this says is that people upload pictures with cameraphones; it speaks exactly zero volume (either way) about their use as a 'serious photographic tool'
That said, sometimes the best camera really is the one you carry with you... Cameraphones will always take shit pictures (digitally 'enhanced' or with sensors 'improved' to spew out more and more megapixels) but some of the last century's best photographers had technical quality that was not really much better. Kind of a shame nobody makes a (genuinely) black-and-white cameraphone, from that perspective. :)
I'm using a Sony Ericsson K800i. While not quite up to the quality of my other cameras (5D, R1 and an old Canonet film rangefinder), this is the one I'd always carry along and it helps to get pictures I wouldn't otherwise have captured.
This says more about the worthlessness of flickr than anything else.
Pardon? What makes you think that Flickr is worthless?
What I think jakem is saying is that the iPhone is NOT a serious photography tool, therefore such photos on Flickr, for the most part, will not be serious photography either. I'm a massive fan of Flickr, but it's hard to disagree.
Kelmon: About 80% of the photos on Flickr are worthless. Good thing you don't really see most of them unless you go out of your way to do so.
@10minutehobo
Who are we to judge what is worthless?
Flickr is filled with a bunch of crap. If you want to see real photography, you're better off with DeviantArt. Flickr just hosts millions of vacation photos.
Oh, I'm sorry. I meant worthless to anyone except the uploader (sometimes) and his/her family and/or friends.
Why they don't mark their photos as private is beyond me. Instead they clutter up search results with billions of tags.
@10minutehobo
To be honest, that's the one problem that I do have with Flickr - sharing pictures with family/friends is a bit of a pain since they have to register with the site in order to see these private pictures. I am sure there must be easier ways of achieving the same goal, particularly if you want them to receive an automated notification that there are new pictures that they should look at.
People still use Flickr? I thought they would have had the sense to move to Picasaweb by now.
@Kelmon, it's not perfect, but flickr do offer guest passes to share your private photos with friends and family without asking them to registered first (they will not be able to write comment, however).
"Cameraphone's value as a serious photographic tool?!" Please. A 1/4" lens and cheap camera will never compare to the same generation of SLR cameras (leaving that open for future technology magic) with much better light collection. That's just physics, plain and simple.
Same generation DSLR? Are you kidding? A Canon EOS D2000 from 1998 with 2 MP should perform better than (almost?) all new cameraphones.
This just reminds me of all the annoying people who upload pictures without removing red eye or rotating them properly.
grrr!
This is bogus, witha contract owners pretty get an iPhone for hardly anything, while you dont see 100 buyers running into a store to nab an expesive SLR. They are in two completly diff. markets.
They should not allow phone pictures accounts, they should make sure that you have a camera (by the uploads) and not more than say 30% of your uploads are from a phone (any phone).
Else the site will just be diluted into crap.
That's my view at least.
"Else the site will just be diluted into crap."
Too late.
A lot of people are on flickr not to share pictures, but to socialize.
Sigh.
Editing photos in Photoshop can strip them of their EXIF information. I would wager that owners of any of the "real" cameras on this chart do, on average, more processing in Photoshop than owners of iPhones do.
That's why I don't use Flickr, because people just upload a ton of shit images and vacation photos. This is proof.
Sorry, isn't it a photo sharing site? Isn't this what it is supposed to do?
By this logic, a Ford Focus is a better car than a Porsche 911, right?
No one said it's better. Popular doesn't mean better.
I love my Focus and will hear nothing bad said about it.
No your doing it wrong. By this logic ANY(camera) car is better than NO CAR(camera). Photography isnt a hobbie/profession that is only relegated by who has the most/best gear. Some of the most awesome pictures ive seen taken in a while were from an iphone camera, or even a crappy disposable, and its because its the camera they had with them.
Your camera elitism shows you have no real knowledge or respect for photography.
http://kottke.org/08/08/photographer-miroslav-tichy
This guy takes amazing photos that are filled with spirit and life and he uses a camera he made out of things he found on the street. If you are a 1/2 decent and educated photographer you would know its not the camera, its the artist. Its like Lennon said "Im an artist, give me a tuber and ill get you something out of it."
Nothing bothers me more than some idiot with an xti thinking they are photographers now cause daddy bought them an expensive camera.
The i8910 can't even think of competing with my 5 year old DSLR with 6 MP. Quality? I don't think so.
What i don't understand is that blackberrys have also got the same crappy camera as iphone and have the flickr app on them and are always on data as apples but they are no where to be seen. Are Blackberry guys so boring? Don't they take a pic or what??? Or they are enlightened enough to understand that their cameras are shitty and it's no point uploading those pics on flickr ;)
If you look carefully at that graph, you'll notice that the XSi has almost the same rate of growth as the iPhone, but most constant; the iPhone's growth is fairly flat except for 2 spurts, probably related to product launches. Based on the graph, I expect that shortly after the iPhone overtakes the XTi, we'll see the XSi overtake the iPhone.
I'm not so sure about these results but I will stand corrected if I'm wrong but I'm sure I noticed once that an image I got from my wifes Sony T200 and uploaded it to Flickr through the iPhoto Flickr uploader it said it was from an iPhone not a Sony, has anyone else noticed this?
Nothing new. Apple likes taking credit for other's work.
i guess news sites don't vet the authenticity of the data and take it as it is regardless if the data is false or not. some apps are poorly designed so that the default camera will be chosen unless the user decides to change it when they can read the metadata exif to find out for themselves.
but then again Flickr destroys the image quality once the picture is uploaded. never have i seen so many artifacts and noise introduced into a picture that was once nice and clean.
The real important is to show that iphone is in the top ten, no matter the list and/or the methodology
You knowns, some (dumb) people will see the graphics and will think that the quality the camera of the iphone is as near than the semi-pro rebel XT
If, since its just speculation, the iPod Touch is updated with a camera, you can expect both products to dominate these stats. Then in a year Microsoft the biggest "me too" company on the planet will add a camera on their stillborn product.
What stillborn product? You mean the Zune, which went from 0% to 10-11% marketshare, a percentage greater than Apple's computer marketshare of 8%, in only a couple of years? Stillborn product, my ass.
>speaks volumes about the modern cameraphone's value as a serious photographic tool.
Because people who upload pictures to flickr are serious photographers, amirite? Not the people who make a living off their cameras, no, those guys are just chumps.
i have a 3g iphone and the camera is the shittiest thing ever.
Not Sure why engadget is being partial here.
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/brands/?sort=popular The most popular brand is Nokia
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/nokia/n82/ shows the quality of pictures
http://www.flickr.com/cameras/apple/iphone/ shows what users actually upload through iPhone
You then decide, what you want, a toy of a versatile tool.
Don't care.
Everytime I hear comparisons of cellphones it's something like "Nokia or Samsung or LG sells more phones by the millions than Apple has sold the iPhones."
OR
"Internet Exploorer has more market share than FF 3.x or Safari 3.x."
But what these comparisons fail to do is to seperate out specific models of phones or versions of software and be exacct.
Compare FF3.x to IE6 OR FF3.x to IE7 or Safari3.x to IE7 OR IE8.
So I don't feel bad that this lumps all 3 iPhone models in one batch. The Rebel XTi has been outed since '06 and as such has been on the market longer. The iPhone isn't at fault for having staying power.
First the world accepts crap audio with the ipod, now it accepts crap photos from the iPhone. Apple makes great products, but the byproduct of that is mediocrity. (or well below it to be honest).
This certainly speaks to the fact that Camera Phones are becoming more widely available and used. The vast majority of these pictures are most likely snapshots or casual pictures, and nothing professional. I wouldn't say that the iPhone should be considered a "serious photographic tool," but rather a great convenient tool for taking decent looking snapshots.
As an owner of a 32 GB 3Gs and an XTi I can say they are not on the same playing field. Yes it is more convenient to carry the iPhone which is probably why the number is growing not to mention the fact that its recent release gave it a nice boost. In addidtion they do not make the XTi anymore (it was replaced by the XSi) which is on the rise. Look out for that DSLR. As far as pictures are concerned. The iPhone cannot match a great shot taken with a nice UV filter and a zoom lens.
My 2cents.
I should open a Flickr account. I have over 100 photos of Alaska, several from Los Vegas, and a few from Iraq.
All of my photos were taken from my cell phone.