The evidence that Windows Mobile 6.5 could soon be moving beyond the stylus to gather
finger-friendly, multi-touch, capacitive screens into its long, loving arms has been mounting with the leak of the
HTC Leo ROM and
TouchFlo 3D 2.6. Such a move would quickly put Microsoft back on track to compete with the iPhone and Android devices like the HTC Hero. Now
DigiTimes, based on sourced information from Taiwanese handset makers, is reporting a "touch interface" version of Windows Mobile 6.5 set for release in February 2010 -- an upgrade to the initial Windows Mobile 6.5 launch expected on October 1st. However, instead of phasing out Windows Mobile 6.5 with the Q4 2010 launch of Windows Mobile 7,
DigiTimes asserts that Microsoft will lower the price of WinMo 6.5 to compete against open-source Android devices while positioning WinMo 7 to go head-to-head with the iPhone. In other words, Microsoft appears to be adopting a
dual-platform mobile strategy like we've heard before, regardless of
Steve Ballmer's recent grandstanding against Google's dual-platform approach.
posted Aug 19th 2009 2:06AM
Yeah, it rules... If you get that tattooed on your forehead, I'll pay.
Love what they've done with the latest WM 6.5 build 23025 and 23028, Titanium looks as slick as the standard Zune HD interface (but still lacks consistency in some parts, unlike ZuneHD which has a slick interface throughout).
Im sure that's what WM7 will be, essentially a ZuneHD-esque interface throughout the OS, plus a code rewrite from the ground up to allow for higher color resolutions (24 bit would be nice), Capacitive Screens that allow for styli to be used with resistive accuracy http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/14/htc-files-patent-for-capacitive-stylus-with-resistive-accuracy/ , and Tegra based UI's that take full advantage of video/hardware decoding.
The ONLY downside to WinMo at the moment is that it takes some tweaking to get it to look as slick as other UI's.
In capable hands, not only does a WM phone such as the TG01 perform better than any other device on the market, but it can be used to accomplish so much more.
Bring on the updates I say.
+1 for use of the word* styli.
The only problem is that Q4 2010 is ages away, and WM7 phones won't be available till a couple of months after that. This time is an eon in phone terms, Microsoft is gonna lose a lot to competitors in that time.
@r3loaded
That's exactly how I feel. I think they're allowing far too much time for people to get bored and check out other platforms.
Thomas: "Microsoft appears to be adopting a dual-platform mobile strategy..."
"Appears"? Wasn't this the case for over 7 years now? Or am I understanding this wrong? Windows Mobile has been always a dual-platform supporter.
For a long time MS has been promising that the Smartphone and Pro versions of WinMo would converge, which means you only need to code once for a program to run on both the non-touchscreen and touchscreen versions of the OS. Perhaps 6.6 or whatever you want to call it will bring this unification, leaving WM7 as the "second" OS. Hope WM7 will have back compatibility with existing software though.
I have always liked the flexibility offered by Windows Mobile devices, but none of the phones really appealed to me, well actually the first phones to appeal to me in a long time are the pre and the touch pro2. I really want to see what 6.5 and 7 offer though, I am against the dual teired system and say just give us 7 already.
Coexist is code for 6.5 devices will not be upgradable to 7 like 6.1 is not upgradable to 6.5, like 5.0 was not upgradable to 6.0 like 2003 was not upgradable to 5.0.
I still use my Toshiba e805 with WinMo 2003. Technically it coexists with my Tilt but both are going to coexist with the trash once I choose a new phone and it most likely won't be WinMo.
That's the great thing about buying HTCs (Your Tilt is an HTC). Just head on over to XDA-Developers and get the latest Windows Mobile for your phone! I'm running 6.5 on my FUZE right now and its WAY better than 6.1, especially the system-wide kinetic scrolling!
People are running 6.5 builds on really old devices. I've seen it on original Windows 5 devices and it is extremely common on Windows 6.1 devices.
Whether they are official upgrades is largely irrelevant. Flash a phone and loading a cooked ROM is a 15 minute task. Virtually anyone can do it.
I'm using a flashed ROM. The original AT&T ROM is a joke.
I wish I could update my Toshiba.
How can it be a diual platform strategy when both platforms suck?
Btw, I have no doubt that WM 7 will be just like WM 6.5 .. MSFT can't do an overhaul.
The problem with Winmo is the time it takes for devices to ship with it. I mean 6.5 is not even shipping yet, let alone 7. Q4 2010? God knows how many Android phones/PMP will be out by then. And by that time Apple would have done another revision of the iPhone (and whatever the 4th gen Touch will be).
6.5 isn't out yet. How are devices supposed to ship with it. Do you bang on the iPhone for not releasing version 4 already?
@bjsguess: That's my point. 6.5 is not out yet, yet people are already saying how MS is "back on track" and "head to head" with iPhone/Android. And then people are so excited about Winmo 7... Q4 2010 is a long time, and it's not like Apple/Google are in a standstill waiting for MS to ship it.
But I thought the fanboys loved the stylus?? haha
Does anybody honestly care about Windows Mobile anymore?
Android hasn't even been out a year yet and it's already vastly superior to the piece of crap OS that pretty much killed the Smartphone market.
When the iPhone and Android phones came to market the sales for smartphones exploded. All those years with Windows Mobile gave us nothing but problems.
Fact of the matter is when you can get Android which is just as good if not better than Windows Mobile and open source as well why would you bother with Windows Mobile which is going to inflate the price of handsets significantly?
Even Microsoft fanboys have to see Android is a capable operating system that costs nothing.
So basically this is a repeat of the article that was linked in this article?
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/08/03/windows-mobile-7-to-be-a-premium-multitouch-beast-of-a-platform/
Thsis is simply a bad idea, I don't know whats going on with MS.
If they wanted to go the dual platform route then it should be Zune UI (ported to the mobile phone) and WinMo 7 or WinCE (on a mobile Phone) and WinMo 7.
-
This feels like Vista and Windows 7 Basic, Pro, Ultimate, Enterprise, Ect.
that is a bad idea-
-
I actually like MS but each time they pull crap like this I must speak out.
I have a feeling they will do something to the Zune HD that will me me no longer want to get one. I have a feeling it will be with the format support and perhaps they will want me to convert all my files so the Zune can play them.
.MKV is a must
The Zune won't support MKV. Microsoft don't support it on any of their platforms.
Every time I read this argument I must speak out.
Having different versions available is one of the reasons Windows has 90+% market share.
Having different versions is one of the reasons that Symbian has 50+% smartphone share.
I don't care how bad the unified OS evangelists want it, the rest of the world doesn't.
MS is spending a fortune developing WinMo 7, it has high HW requirements. They can't sell it cheap.
Everything else(6.5, 6.whatever) will have an inexpensive OEM license just like XP does for netbooks.
"Every time I read this argument I must speak out.
Having different versions available is one of the reasons Windows has 90+% market share."
Having no competition is another, some might say, more significant, reason for that.
@mike
They did have competition. Unfortunately it was rubbish.
Which still doesn't explain why Symbian is so utterly dominant.
Carry on.
You don't have to convert your .mkv files if they contain H.264 video that stays inside these limits-------- Baseline Profile + bframes, up to 10 Mbps peak video bit rate; 720 pixels x 480 pixels up to 30 frames per second (or 720 pixels x 576 pixels up to 25 frames per second). 1280x720 up to 30 frames per second, up to Level 3.1 and 14.0 Mbps peak video bitrate.--------and 2 channel AAC or mp3 audio. All you have to do is to demux the audio and video and mux it back to .mp4 container. It only takes a few seconds.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
WinMo FTW!
There's lots of speculation - but let me say what will happen. WinMo 7 will not be released by other hardward manufacturers until 2011 and not be backward compatible with win 6.5 apps (maybe emulation). The ZunePhone/WinMo 7 will be released to Verizon summer 2009 and be LTE compatible and compete with the 4th gen iPhone (AT&T only and not LTE, summer 2010). The capacitive version of Win 6.5 with capacitive stylus will be released Q2 2010 for all carriers. This will allow HTC to pump out snap dragon WinMo 6.5 phones since the guts will be the same as Android phones and no separate manufacturing lines are required. Android is free and WinMo 6.5 is currently $30-40 to OEM. If Microsoft didn't release a capacitive compatible version of WinMo 6.5, HTC would drop WinMo 6.5 when they upgrade its manufacturing lines to snapdragon chipset. Please remember this post in a year.
Admittedly, Microsoft's methods can be messy and unnecessary but for better or worse we live in a Microsoft world where they will be very much relevant to our tech needs. As much as it has been fashionable to bash MS which was initiated by the Apple fanbois, we all forget that any press is good press and MS always gets press.
I love my iPhone 3G but I can't resist the lushness that is the Zune HD user interface which is an accurate indication of what WinMo 7 will be like which I can't wait for. But that is a problem for MS to deal with by making sure WinMo always gets some form of press until 7 is released which unnecessarily taxes their resources which could be better put to use. But deny as you might but we all have an interest in MS whether negative or positive and while they are undoubtedly behind in the smartphone war, they are not left behind as some think and suggest.
Let's be real here, when it comes to Microsoft AND Apple they are two larger than life companies that have the ability to overcome just about any obstacle whether through their seemingly endless resources or just on their brand power and recognition alone which is all so important these days. Basically, never count out the big dogs so you can expect WinMo to at the very least "stick around" if not push it's way to the top to battle it out with the leaders whoever they maybe once the war finally settles in.
The market has spoken and WinMo has already died although Ballmer will not admit this. Too little too late for Ballmer to add iPhone like touch interface. WinMo has become MS-DOS of the past!
Chevy, that's pretty much a total bullshit.
Personally I don't give a fuck about the OS. I'll buy the nicest and most suitable phone for me. If that's WinMo then so be it.
I see what you did there.
No but really, isn't that what it's all about? Right now for me, it's WinMo, but I'm not against jumping ship or anything. Mark's got the right idea, kudos man.
I agree with you. I can't believe all the negative WinMo comments have been voted down. I didn't know there were so many WinMo fans out there. Usually anything WinMo on Engadgets has 3 comments or less.
I've been using WinMo since the days of the Velo. Everyone I know that tried WinMo gave up with version 5.0 and moved on to Sidekicks or Blackberries at that time. Now most of them have the iPhone. I think 6.1 is pretty good. I wish 5.0 had threaded text messaging and the ability to filter messages. In 5.0 when starting to type in an app, contacts would filter, PIE favorites would scroll down to that letter, and Windows Media would just head back to the top of the playlist. That was really annoying. Even though most of these inconsistencies have been fixed in 6.1, the trouble is the iPhone gave a lot of users a glimpse of how user friendly a smartphone can be. The first one may have been dumbed down and very limited but these days there are tons of apps that can do almost anything if you can find them in the app store.
As Microsoft continues to copy the iPhone with 4 touch buttons on the bottom and swishes and swipes I just wonder when will they get back the app developer support? The only phone I like out there is the Touch Pro 2 but after $300+ and extra memory and a $19 or $29 app or two I feel like I'm getting a much better value with the iPhone at $200 plus some $1 apps.
Superrguy what do u mean about the 4 touch buttons? Also pretty much all touch screen phones use swishes & swipes nowadays
Hold on, isn't Windows Mobile 7 supposed to be RTM this november (and some Wifi chips are already supporting it http://www.istartedsomething.com/20090817/hardware-already-exists-windows-mobile-7/ ) ? and Why would the finger optimized version of 6.5 only be realeased on in Feb 2010 when all the new stuff is already part of the latest TouchFlo (the magnifier for example, http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2009/07/30/capacitive-screens-coming-to-windows-mobile/ ) Digitimes' timeline doesn't seem right.
Exactly.
The article seems off, by a couple of quarters at least.
loocas,
You clearly don't understand how the market works. WinMo doesn't have to go down to zero in order to declare as dead.
The smartphone pie in general is growing while WinMo marketshare has shrunk. The shrinkage has been accelerating.
That's how you can tell WinMo has died. Remember MS-DOS users continue to use the OS long after the OS was
declared dead officially. Same deal with Lotus 1-2-3! If you're old enough to see how tech products get demised in the
past then you'll understand WinMo days are over!
We gotta wait 6 more months for the release.... like Ike says
Microsoft has a lot of programmers what takes them so long to write this code?
This is the third time in the past week that engadget has posted this news. Maybe they'll catch on eventually.
Q..4..... 20...10???!! W...T...F....
Nobody wants 6.5.. we all want the new 7 devices and now!
I want to know if the Omnia II will meet the specs and be upgradeable.
do u even know what winmo 7 is or looks like???
You want something that you havent seen... yet winmo 6.5 is a pretty decent alternative to some mobile OS' out in the market today
............I want 6.5
I have a Diamond running 6.1 (I did run a cooked 6.5 build for a couple months) but what I really want with 7 is the beefier devices capable of things this one cannot do... like decent 3D graphics and a smooth UI. Of course i dont know what it looks like, but from the leaked plan of having simultaneous ecosystems that can only mean a quantum leap in power and performance that today's devices cant handle.
ah finally, the year for winmo will come
As a Microsoft shareholder, I'll gladly give it (and Ballmer) the finger,
I seen the Zune HD, if WinMo 7 is like that then win for MS.
This seems like an appropriate place for a Steve Ballmer quote. Ballmer said this in 2007, a couple months before the iPhone came out.
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get."
That is how good Ballmer is at predicting the future, and anticipating what people really want. I suspect that trend will continue with WinMo, since Ballmer has proven so many times that he has no idea what people really want. Now they have to play catch-up to Apple, against mobile OS X, and that's a tall order. If you asked Ballmer, he'd probably say they're going to crush the iPhone. He doesn't really live on the same planet as the rest of us.
And guess what? He was speculating that would occur had they kept that $500 pricetag. They proved him right by (Gasp) lowering the price and such.
Exactly how was he wrong? His predictions were for a $500 phone with a two year contract that you couldn't load programs onto. Guess what? The first generation iPhone did absolutely horrible. His predictions were completely correct. The iPhone didn't gain marketshare until Apple lowered the price and developed the App Store.
How is this playing catch up to the iPhone? Because they're making an already touchscreen phone finger friendly? It seems to me that the latest iPhone firmware is the one playing catch up.
Also, I hate to break it to you but WinMo is already crushing iPhone OS. Ignore the facts all you want.
@Zak
You know, these tactics you employ kind of remind me of the ludicrous tactics used by racists. Microsoft and Ballmer are inferior in your mind compared to Apple right? OK. Let's entertain that idea for a second. If they suck so much, why worry? If they are so insubstantial, why do you care? Propagandist much? Ballmer may have been wrong about the iPhone ( i remember his ridiculous most expensive phone ever comment) , but it must really burn your side that even as they fail so utterly as you say, MS is more financially successful and influential than Apple in almost every sector of business their involved in.
I dont think they have to play catch up at all with Apple, seeing as that they arent really in competition with each other. Apple and Microsoft rarely ever are. Not in the PC business (MS : Software Provider, Apple: OEM), and certainly not in the Cellphone market. It's just fanatics like you that keep harping on this imagined battle between Apple and MS.
It was a direct quote from Steve Ballmer. Is there something you didn't understand about that? Do these racists' ludicrous tactics you're referring to usually involve direct quotes like that? Speaking of which, I was wondering exactly which racists you were referring to. Could you clarify that for us please?
And yes, I know. Quoting somebody directly is ludicrous. It's much better to just make shit up, like for example saying how quoting people is a tactic used by racists. That makes much more sense. As far as whether they're in competition with each other: Right. Let me guess: They're in competition with each other when Apple has 10% of the desktop market share and MS has 90%, even though they're not directly comparable because as you said in your own words, "MS : Software Provider, Apple: OEM", but they're NOT in competition with each other when Apple has the majority market share.
Sure, I see how that works. Makes perfect sense if you're a Microsoft apologist. And finally, I'd like to call your attention to this fairly damning quote of yours: "If they suck so much, why worry? If they are so insubstantial, why do you care? Propagandist much?"
I might ask you the same question. Why do you consistently involve yourself by bringing anti-Apple comments into all kinds of threads on Engadget? If Apple is so insignificant compared to Microsoft (i.e. your quote here: "MS is more financially successful and influential than Apple in almost every sector of business their involved in."), why do you care? Why are you responding negatively to anything that paints Apple in a positive light?
Propagandist much? And by the way, it's spelled "they're". You're welcome.
Since you need somewhat of an explanation to what seemed an straightforward response, lets try this again.
"It was a direct quote from Steve Ballmer. Is there something you didn't understand about that?"
The problem wasnt with the quote, it was how you decided to use a two year quote to somehow imply that a trend would continue in t he future, despite Microsoft stepping WinMo 7 to the plate. What does a off collar comment to MSNBC anchor 2 years ago have to do with an update on WinMo 6.5. How is Ballmer involved in any of the development of this update? Did you see Ballmer's name mentioned anywhere in the article? Yes, that was a stupid thing of Ballmer to say. We get it. But then, you somehow parlay that into some litany on how they dont just get people, I mean consumers. What people do you mean.
" I was wondering exactly which racists you were referring to. Could you clarify that for us please?"
I was referring to any racist who goes on ranting and raving about how the hated party involved is destined to fail because of (insert reason here), all the while concerning themselves with the obsession with that party by spreading as much negativity as possible. Think I'm wrong? Why didnt you decide to quote Ballmer on how he was wrong about the iPhone. ( http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/01/ballmer-maybe-the-iphone-aint-so-bad-after-all.ars) That's way more current and reflects the direction of the company, the point you were trying to make. Instead you went with an old and incomplete quote to further your agenda against anything that Apple and Microsoft "compete" in.
"Right. Let me guess: They're in competition with each other when Apple has 10% of the desktop market share and MS has 90%, even though they're not directly comparable because as you said in your own words, "MS : Software Provider, Apple: OEM", but they're NOT in competition with each other when Apple has the majority market share."
Whoa, what majority market share are you talking about Willis. Allow me to disable your RDF for you:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10195697-94.html & http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10245339-37.html
What that i see Zak? Apple, while having the greatest gain in their market segment, is not the market leader by a long shot. Yes, WinMo still has alot of work and ground to cover, but in no way is Apple the majority market share. Thats held by RIM and Nokia.
"Sure, I see how that works. Makes perfect sense if you're a Microsoft apologist."
Though I'm sure that still means Apple's the majority market share when you're a Apple apologist.
And finally, I'd like to call your attention to this fairly damning quote of yours: "If they suck so much, why worry? If they are so insubstantial, why do you care? Propagandist much? Why are you responding negatively to anything that paints Apple in a positive light?"
Damning? You can't be serious?
So, I'm in this blog, Engadget, reading about WinMo 7, minding my own business when, BAM, here goes Zak again with his "Oh, it says MS, better bash it, and be an Apple evangelist" shtick and he tries to call me out on fanboyism.
Can you believe that. Zak, let me give you a mental picture. Pot. Kettle. Black.
@truthbringer - tactics? check you own. zak did not say or imply Ballmer is "inferior," you're making that up. basically he said Ballmer doesn't get what is really going on. which many agree with. there is a big difference.
you are correct that in the smartphone market Apple and MS are not literally competing directly since MS does not sell its own hardware. WinMo is literally competing against Android and Sybmian, which are likewise hardware-independent. but Ballmer and most everyone do perceive a competition between MS and Apple for smartphone OS market share, also including RIM and Palm. so that is how nearly all discussions are "framed."
and not having to "play catch up" - are you kidding? not having to catch up WinMo with the touchscreen UI and all the other iPhone innovations? are you on the same planet with the rest of us?
"How is Ballmer involved in any of the development of this update?"
You means besides being CEO of Microsoft? Are you kidding me? Do I really need to give that a serious answer, or do you think you can figure it out on your own?
"I was referring to any racist who goes on ranting and raving about how the hated party involved is destined to fail because " blah blah blah, straw man argument. Next!
"Whoa, what majority market share are you talking about Willis."
Wow you found statistics from months and months ago that are apples-to-oranges comparisons and not up to date. Color me impressed. How about a comparison that's actually relevant?
http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/05/27/the-iphone-casts-a-giant-shadow-on-the-web/
Furthermore, you're comparing a company's entire lineup of phones in total (Nokia) to a SINGLE phone from Apple. Does Nokia make a single phone that has sold as many or as quickly as the iPhone? The answer is no. And neither does anybody else. So when you say "not the market leader", you mean as long as you're not talking about a single phone. Your position is that the iPhone hasn't sold as well as "all these phones combined." That's funny, so I'm going to laugh at you now.
"Though I'm sure that still means Apple's the majority market share when you're a Apple apologist."
I'm sorry, who's apologizing for Apple? They're not the ones lagging behind and making very public and very inaccurate predictions of their competition.
"So, I'm in this blog, Engadget, reading about WinMo 7, minding my own business when, BAM, here goes Zak again with his "Oh, it says MS, better bash it, and be an Apple evangelist" shtick and he tries to call me out on fanboyism. "
Wow, revisionist history at its worst. Luckily for me you can just go back and read what actually happened. First of all you were minding your own business until you decided to respond to my comment at which point you were not minding your own business any more, were you? Second, nobody called you out on anything until AFTER you responded to me. Third, all I did was quote something that Steve Ballmer said. If that's what you call "bashing MS", then they're in more trouble than I thought. I mean if their own CEO is bashing them, that's pretty bad.
And finally, if you have such a problem with it, you have a number of choices available to you. You can simply ignore what I say, you can simply not read the comments section, you can choose NOT to respond (it's true, you can), you can even not read the articles, or not even go to Engadget at all. It's a veritable cornucopia of choice. So don't even try to blame me for this conversation, since you are the one who started arguing with me, not the other way around.
So wait you can cut out the parts of my arguments, and this is supposed to be an debate.
Ok You're right, I'm wrong silly me. You we're just using the " months and months ago quote " and here I came along with Ballmers updated recanting link you didnt use (nor did the author of engadget....), show you proof that Apple was not market leader and was competitor in the last 6 quarters, as you claimed, and you're mad because i said you used a tactic a fearmonger/racist uses when they dont like something/one the use old antiquated versions to cast a bad shadow over the future of its outcome. 2 years ago, we didnt have the Zune HD and Ballmer was a annoying egotistical pig. I ackownlage all that. But please use updated information before you start throwing stones around telling me to do so.
And finally, I'll chose Door #6,
I'll do whatever I want to do. I called you out on it, and you responded in kind. I have no problem with you man.
As a WinMo user, I would gladly throw my phone out the Windows (and consequentially break them) if someone offered me any other new phone on the market with reasonably good features.
WinMo is... awful. I'd take the iPhone's push notifications + one app at a time rule over a dead battery for forgetting to close everything in the task manager any day.