At
Best Buy's Zune HD preview today a certain Matthew Arkin on Qik was able to shoot footage of the "Apps" item that resides within the "Marketplace" section on the device. It's still incredibly unclear what Microsoft's plans are for that functionality -- they've long admitted its existence, but have waffled on the name and have been reticent to show it off in meetings with us. Microsoft so far has only promised to have applications on par with the games currently available for Zune, but there's obviously a lot of implied competition with Apple's App Store that the word "Apps" on a touchscreen device conjures up. On video (embedded after the break) the rep is asked if there's an SDK, and apparently Matthew got a "yes" offscreen, but we're not really sure of the veracity of that statement, or what it means for developers at the moment -- hopefully good,
freedom-ey things.
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
posted Aug 23rd 2009 2:29AM
So will these be native apps designed specifically to take advantage of Tegra, or just WinMo apps ported over?
Probably both.
This better be just as good as the app store. 99 cent apps are what people want. There was an article about RIM setting a minimum price point which just seems ridiculous.
As for anyone going to check out the Zune HD, my local best buy has a hidden network named "Best Buy" that is unsecured and has internet access. So if anyone gets a hold of one long enough try to sneak into the wifi settings and test out the market place.
The smart money would be to have a tiered app store. Keep the fart programs and the games in the Zune store, and keep them cheap. Have the productivity and utility apps in the WinMo store.
This also makes sense because Zune doesn't have all the same hardware reqs as a typical winmo device (like the gps or cell radio).
God I want this thing.
It just keeps getting better and better.
The other thing i wouldn't be surprised to see, woudl be MS making a new xbox 360 controller, similar to what they have now, but having a slot that you can slide the Zune HD into, giving you an additional touchscreen display, right at your fingertips. In addition, the controller could also be used as a standalone, portable gaming platform.
We haven't seen even the beginning of this new, exciting platform.
@crawdad689: That sounds nasty.
just wait for zfart
only $1
@crawdad689: I'm not sure we need another Visual Memory Unit just yet.
I'm all for Apple and I'm a Mac person. But I REALLY want this product. Stop tempting me Engadget D:
Who cares. Brand loyalty is stupid. Just buy it if you want it.
You're honestly the first person I've seen on Engadget to make sense when responding to another comment about someone using Apple product, for that, I love you. Also, to make my previous comment make more sense, I REALLY WANT A ZUNE HD. That is all :)
Yeah.
I am a "Mac person" too. Every comp in my house is a mac and I am a slight fanboy admittedly. I agree with the whole brand loyalty thing. I'm not jumping over to AT&T because I would like an iPhone. I'll stick with Verizon where I very much enjoy my coverage...but I digress.
I actually am not a very big Microsoft fan at all (although I own an Xbox). Not many people I know are. BUT, a sexy product is a sexy product. And this my friends, IS a sexy product. We'll have to see how it all works out and how Microsoft pulls it off, but I would guess from what I have seen so far (and not seeing what the Big A has up their sleeve for the new iPod in a few weeks) that this has at least some potential to finally be a media player to break into Apple's dominance.
I love the look of the interface, the HD radio, the screen, and the Tegra (which has SO much potential for what this thing could offer).
If Apple doesn't step it up with their next offering (gonna have to do better than a camera boys), then consider me sold on this!
I thought Zunes don't work on Macs? Do they? Cause if they do, I would consider buying one.
I totally agree! Is there some petition we can sign and send to Microsoft encouraging them to port this thing over to Mac OS? Geez!
They don't. But I have windows set up on my Mac anyway.
@shdow.
Exactly what I was trying to say, but better put. X]
Come on give in, you know you want to one.
I'm a PC and want a iPod touch. :)
I'm not a mac person, literally hates the mac computers but I bought their ipod because it is essential to me when I use the gym. I plan on getting another color to match my outfit.
My point is, don't be like those idiots who supports so and so. Neither company cares bout you. Competition is healthy and it drives these companies to lower their prices and think of better ideas. Thats how our technologies have been evolving.
If Atari was the only video game console, our tech today would still be 80's. PDA's in the 90's evolved so slow because it was just Windows Mobile. Now we have Apple, Nokia, Blackberry and theyre all competing to always be better than the other.
A week after Zune HD comes out Best Buy is going to have a long long line at the return counter.
Let's see how many chumps fall for this thing.
All this talk about anti-brand loyalty and then Kehyu gets downranked for basically being the same (but inverse) of the OP. Guys, let people buy what they want, regardless of whether it's the product you like or think is 'better'. Isn't that what the first four posters have been upranked for? Why the hypocrisy?
Oh, but @FoxKenji-- JUST SHUT UP ALREADY.
Why is an iPod "essential" for using at the gym? There are plenty of MP3 players out there that offer similar capabilities and similar specs.
Essential to him.
Anyone know if it will sync on a Mac? Will M$ release a ZunePass application on the Mac to get subscription music? Will they go Palm style and build in iTunes support?
I might be planning on getting this Zune HD, but even if I don't, hopefully, if Microsoft has a good, free, and OPEN app store, Apple will get it's but in gear and improve it's own App store.
Oh who am I kidding, it's Apple. But I can DREAM can't I?
Apple's App store is the best and most successful compare with everyone else's. Clearly its strategy is working extremely well and that proves its business model works. Now look at MS once again saying 'me too' but in a feeble attempt at not cloning the App Store in its entirety they want to set an artificial minimum price on each app. Perhaps one day MS will get its butt in gear and create sound business policies for its store. Why would anyone even dream of such a thing though. It's useless.
@Kenji
Just desperate to grasp for an argument aren't you? I mean if the Zune HD is such a horrible device like you claim then why are you out here trying to protect the iPod Touch? Wait wait do you hear that? I think Steve job's is calling for you.
@FoxKenji You are the biggest iWhore i know. I admittedly am a little zune-biased, but at least i don't hunt for iWhoreish comments and rant and rave about Microsoft. I also love mac but seeing how i hate "fitting in" I bought a zune 120, so now i'm stuck with Windows Vista. That is until windows 7 comes out. By the way you need to relax and open up your mind. Seeing how now the zune hd actually has more features all around then the iPod touch, you freak out i understand. Just wait until it comes out go try it with an open mind, maybe a zune rep will be there, be as polite as possible. Oh and tell "Apple Chapel"(Paul A. Chapel) to do the same.
If you like your mac, windows, and the Zune HD, and want to be unique, why not dual boot Windows and OS X on a PC? That's always sure to turn heads, and it's a good conversational piece.
I actually wish I had a PC now so I could run Windows and Mac on it, not as fun to do that on a mac.
If Microsoft can do to its Zune Games/Apps what it did to the Live Arcade, I think it'll be pretty successful.
With the power of Tegra
YES, It will run a mobile version of
HALO3
Crysis
NeedForSpeed
with an unbelievable FPS.
and this will pave the way for Windows Live Suite
Twitter client with amazing UI
etc...
by Need For Speed, I mean PGR
PGR? The demo video they had at the preview I went to had Burnout...
@Mark
Seriously? The Zune HD demo unit had Burnout on it? Was it watered-down? Did you get to see it in action?
Oh, no, it was just featured on one of the demo videos. They didn't have any apps or games actually installed and they refused to let me use the wifi to try to see if there were any on the marketplace
HALO ODST!
Dang that Tegra is nice
Again, Why didn't any GeekSquad Agents try and hook this up to the hidden Wifi networks?
I had my phone all ready to tether but the people said they weren't allowed to let anyone use the internet on it, because it's "not finalized". My guess is that they didn't want people to see the apps.
Because they are Geek Squad, and from my experience, they probably couldnt figure out how to set up the wifi.
Because they are geek squad. They know how to turn on a PC, insert a repair disk, and charge you a 100 bucks. Anything else is mostly outside their scope of knowledge. They would had to have asked, or hopped on google real fast to look up the instructions.
Lol my sisters boyfriend works at bestbuy, he said all geeksquad does is call foreign companies and ask them how to do shit, that they probably still can't figure out how to do.
i tried i work there in the gaming dept, i knew about the hidden network unfortunatley the zune only shows visabile one and wouldnt let me add a custom but the rep said thats because they purposely locked that option out probably knowing of BBs network
I wish i had some of my goons with me, we could have pulled a jack move on them and take the zunes and sell them.
for a $220 device, great thinking, thats really worth getting arrested for theft.
Of course you could sell it for much more than $220, seeing as how it's not going to be sold for another few weeks.
I'm still waiting to see the true power of Tegra... I guess Steve Ballmer put it best: Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers.
Cellphone makers seriously need to improve video recording qualities of camera phones. The ought to be a law. VGA or higher!
There's a world outside of America.
@iLoveApple : That's what they want you to think! ;)
Wouldn't the SDK just be XNA? Well, I guess technically you can only make games with XNA but if they modified it a bit for Zune, isn't that what they would use? I think Microsoft would be in the smarts to use XNA as its Game/Application SDK because its really easy to ease into. If you are reading Microsoft... :)
There's a calculator app that was written with XNA so it could still be using that.
Technically, you can use XNA to make any kind of app, be it a game or a real application.
XNA is a software development platform with strong points leaning towards game development. XNA at some point will become the defacto standard for zune application development, probably (least i hope, gives me more incentive to learn C#)
When we used XNA last year in class, one group was working on a paint application for the Zune...They didn't finish it, but I believe that they ended up with something somewhat impressive, just not as much as they hoped, so I knew it was possible.
The thing with XNA is that its built to run off of a "game timer" which isn't very efficient for an app that doesn't have much going on. This is why I was wondering if they would do a proprietary version of XNA for Zune.
Bytheway, C# is spectacular, with a very low learning curve(If I were to teach CS, I would definitely start with C# because of its low bar), and its very powerful. On top of that, using XNA to code for Xbox 360, Windows, and Zune is a sinch...my group coded an awesome tower defense game for the 360 in a little under 3 weeks(like 45 minutes of full gameplay, not to mention its expandability that we built in to add more gameplay and maps). That's way more efficient than a lot of other platforms out there.
i think C++ is a good starting point for a CS degree. References are easier to understand if you already understand pointers (they aren't difficult at all to follow, but also having knowledge of pointers is very helpful). Plus the jump from C++ to C# is very minimal.
not a surprise and with xbox live arcade games, indie games and XNA, Microsoft will have a open app store and a big one none the less.
I want to hear about how well it fairs to other real world devices in terms of performance. Tell me about it's gaming applications Microsoft! I want your product but I'd like more info. Atleast announce a Live anywhere feature or a few launch games.
One of the demo videos they showed had a preview for Burnout for the Zune that looked pretty nice, so it looks like there'll be some heavy hitters in the game department.
I am doubtful but where is said video? Any link?
Also what the hell is with the zero promotion. Less than a month til launch and no one knows what the device even is. I went to several different Best Buys over the past week just because I pass them by often and thought about preordering one and not one person knew what the hell I was talking about, "The Zune HD, what is that like you want the like like like one wit da hard drive like yea we got that. Wait preorder? What's it like a game or somethin?"
They need to start rolling out the commercials with the release date posted, get people excited. I'm positive they'd sell out launch day if they atleast tried to push the device out the door.
No, we weren't able to catch that on video, it was one of the demos on the actual Zune HD's they had there. They were already somewhat packing up by the time I got there(got there at like 3:50 when it was over at 4) so they just quickly ran through the videos, let me play with the Zune HD and tried(unsuccessfully) to demo the HD radio. So I caught what video/pictures I could(that pic on Gizmodo is actually mine, I used my fiancee's email to send it in) but didn't manage to catch that before the video moved on.
If that is indeed so how would you compare the Burnout game you saw to the PSP/DS/Xbox 1 etc?
Mark, are you absolutely sure the Burnout was for the Zune, and not just a trailer for a console game? What makes you positive it was coming to the HD? Because, if you're right, I am extremely excited. The only game I wanted for the Zune HD was a compelling racing game (because I never get bored of a good racing game).
3 apps that I want:
-Facebook app
-Twitter app
-Skype
Can MS deliver?
All 3 are on WinMo, so why not?
@WindowsFTW: Can users install Winmo apps on the ZuneHD out of the box? Doubt it.
To be honest, imo MS should just put Winmo 7 on the ZuneHD, thus avoid having yet another "platform."
Don't you dare say that!
Microsoft is on the verge of creating something better than WinMo, and finally getting rid of that decrepit old platform.
If an App store and XNA, or even a different C# SDK were made, MS could port the Zune OS to Smartphones, and have a real industry leading product on their hands. They could stand a chance at toppling the iPhone from it's impenetrable tower.
WinMo can rot.
WM 6.5 standard (Titanium) already features the Zune HD homescreen interface.
I would know, Im using it.
That's not the problem though, the lack of consistency however is.
Furthermore, it's a gross misconception to assume that the iPhone is sitting atop some "impenetrable tower" (talk about hyperboles), when as a platform, the iPhoneS (all however many models of them) still sit in 4th place behind:
Symbian
RIM
WinMo
I don't think you'll be seeing Skype without a microphone. Just getting that out there.
Peripherals?
I want to see the new ui (w/o touchscreen) on a new zune 80!
Keep dreaming. There's no Tegra in the Zune 80
Doesn't mean it won't be an awesome new UI
They couldn't do that even if they wanted to. It's mostly the same interface, just tweaked for a touchscreen.
I'm hoping to see subtle changes to the older devices, such as the history/new/pins on the home screen accessed by hitting left while on the main menu, pinning items, a gridded album viewer for music, expanded marketplace to download some games (something promised more than a year ago) and perhaps even video downloads through the marketplace, slight UI changes (mostly to mimic the Zune HD in looks and positioning, not performance or smoothness), etc.
They better let users chat on Aim,MSN and Yahoo. (Honestly)
Can someone explain HOW the Tegra is going to revolutionize the market?
Everyone says it's great but I'm not sure I've ever read any reasons why.
Also, why do you need a facebook app when the thing has a web browser?
Are you new to the Internet?
HD in your pocket...pure and simple. Plug that sucker into your tv and Tegra will take your HD videos off the device and encode it to 720p on your HD TV...that's pretty damn cool in my opinion.
Actually come to think of it...if games get pushed really well on the device, you should be able to plug the Zune HD to your tv and play those games in 720p straight from the device because of the Tegra's power...though the cord length required for that would be a bummer :S, but don't you think it would be pretty cool to play HD games anywhere?
Rendering games and decoding a video are two completely different animals.
Hence the Intel X4500HD onboard graphics can decode 1080p content while it could only dream of rendering 3D games beyond slideshow speeds.
The Tegra looks to be strong for graphics, but those graphics wont go beyond the devices resolution, else it also would chug along.
The dealbreaker for me will be mail/calendar apps with offline access and sync with outlook. iPod Touch does this....
@ Dax
Agreed. And the funny thing is how some of these Zune fanboys then try to counter with stupid straw-man arguments such as the comment right below you: they attack Apple fans by accusing them of proclaiming that Apple invented the touchscreen when clearly it is only they who make such claims.
Oh well, the fanboys are running out of excuses to rationalize their hatred for successful Apple products. It's going to be a long line at the Best Buy Zune HD return counter.
The Zune HD is an impressive device; it has strong media capabilities, a very stylish and fluid interface (Tegra lets them do subtle 3D transition effects while still being more responsive than any other PMP interface I have seen) and the Tegra platform gives the Zune HD a lot of potential when it comes to 3rd party applications.
I've been using this exact same device for the last two years. I don't see what the big deal is.
Exactly, and you are low-ranked for stating the bloody obvious. Microsoft has been copying Apple for years and people/investors are starting to take notice. What really blows my mind is to hear people who hate Apple foam at the mouth at devices that do their best to replicate Apple products.
@dax
how is this anything like the ipod touch? Oh, that's right. Apple invented the touchscreen!
@ Dax
Agreed. And the funny thing is how some of these Zune fanboys then try to counter with stupid straw-man arguments like the comment right below you. They attack Apple fans by accusing them of proclaiming that Apple invented the touchscreen when clearly it is only they who make such claims.
Oh well, the fanboys are running out of excuses to rationalize their hatred for successful Apple products. It is going to be a long line at the Best Buy Zune HD return counter.
You've had Tegra, OLED, 720p output through HDMI, unlimited music for a flat rate for 2 years?
Thought not.
also HD radio
LOL Jacob. Those are minor secondary features and incremental hardware improvements on a device that hasn't even been released yet.
Do you really think Zune fans are excited about this Zune because they finally have HDMI output (for an extra $50)? Do you really think Microsoft spent the last 2 1/2 years figuring out how to put a HD Radio on an MP3 Player? Do you really think Microsoft held off releasing this Zune until OLED displays became cheap enough?
No, they spent the last 2 1/2 developing the software to mimic the iPhone/iPod touch experience. Need I remind you what this and virtually every other Engadget Zune article is about? It's all about the software.
It's one thing to mimic your competitor's products, companies do it all the time, but it's a whole other thing to be so far behind the state of the art in software, especially for a company whose supposed specialty is software.
so you concede that you haven't had those features for 2 years? Point taken.
@Darren
An Apple fan is the last person who should be talking down on incremental hardware improvements (3G -> 3G S), especially when they aren't incremental at all.
I know without a doubt that if this was coming from Apple, it would be "revolutionary".
John,
This product did come from Apple, 2 and a half years ago, and I can say first hand that it's really great! How nice it will be for you to finally be able to enjoy this technology for yourself once they finally release this thing, even if it is second-hand imitation technology. In a couple more years maybe you'll have some second-hand imitation apps and games to play with as well.
I guess when you release a product that everyone else rushes to copy, that's pretty revolutionary, huh? And if it takes the world's largest software company 2 1/2 years to copy the software, it must be pretty good.
Quick off topic question. I am stationed overseas in Asia with 220V power outlets :(
I am heading home to TX in 3 weeks and WANT To get one of these. How does the charging work? Is it a USB cable similar to the Ipod?
Also is the marketplace etc ok with overseas ips accessing it.
Thanks in advance for any responses.
Works fine around the world.
Just have to set your PC's country/regions to United States.
http://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/microsoft_zune_hd_onscreen_keyboard.jpg
http://gadgetophilia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/zune-hd-keyboard.jpg
@ second pic
Hehe, chode...
Need a 64GB one at least! I can't justify $290 for a 32GB when my Zune 30 is already left with only 7GB left of free space. Beat Apple to the market with a touch device that has more than 32GB and you could really do something amazing Microsoft!!!!
ZuneHD, Ipod Touch3Gen, Creative Zii which one?
good question i'm in same boat myself
patience is a virtue, but damn it i want mine now!!