Admittedly, when we saw Game Informer's survey that pegged Xbox 360's
failure rate at 54.2 percent, we were thinking that was a bit steep of a number, possibly bumped up a few digits from some possible sampling errors. So when we were gearing up to read Microsoft's statement responding to the data, we fully expected some harsh rebuttal of the number. Turns out we got disappointed. A spokesperson for Redmond pointed to its superior entertainment value, its "best warranty in the industry" and its "constantly improving design, manufacture, and performance." At no point is there a dispute or even direct reference to the findings, which is really something that could've helped public perception on a nagging issue. How about
taking a page from Fujifilm, eh Microsoft?
posted Aug 24th 2009 1:51AM
Tipical PR answer.
No PR dispute = Guilty.
Now, what do XBox, Zune, Vista and WinMo have in common?
The answer is they are falling apart! :) :)
Nope, just Xbox. Zunes are tanks, and WinMo is the most flexible mobile OS on the market - and with Windows 7 and WinMo 7 on the horizon, things are looking pretty good if you ask me.
I love it how Windows Fans always day things are looking good on the horizon, Like Microsoft is a new company with a few teething problems. Microsoft is one of the oldest players in the computer Market and still everything they make crashes or goes wrong!!
I can't wait until next year, when people are saying Windows 7 was rubbish, but Windows 8 and the Zune HD2 are on the horizon which is looking good to me!
@Mark Brown
I've been using Windows 7 in beta, RC and now RTM form since January. Apart from some crashing in the beta that got sorted out pretty fast there have been ZERO problems. Runs super fast on an old P4 and without a hint of a hitch on my Dell Mini 10 netbook with only 1GB of Ram to play with.
So, exactly how long is it until I'm supposed to wait fro all these game changing crashes and hangups? I mean, if I've been gaming and surfing and downloading and installing and uninstalling and updating drivers for over half a year, at which point do you believe Microsoft's code is going to make this miraculous change from the stable OS me and hundreds of thousands are already using now?
In terms of THIs story...yeah, MS has a long way to go. I own a PS3 and I'm more than happy with it, and will NEVER pay for a Live account. I have an iPod Touch too, but that was a replacement for my very missed Zune 80. I'm not fan of any brand, I use what fulfils my needs and right now Windows 7 is doing that in exemplary fashion.
Mr. 14 @
Microsoft's vaporware always makes me laugh because it doesn't attract buyers for obvious reason. That is it isn't available today! Allow me to shed some perspectives on Zune and WinMo if I may.
Despite pouring huge amount of money into making Zune for all these years, Zune has captured less than 5%
marketshare. In fact, Zune is the most uncompetitive product Microsoft has ever made and has become
the biggest PR embarrassment for the company. Even Microsoft's mouse has done better than Zune.
WinMo has been in the smartphone market long before the smartphone market is being defined. And yet,
WinMo's marketshare has shrunk to a single digit while competitors are gaining momentum. Vaporware
sounds good but the only problem is the competitors aren't sitting around and jacking off. ;) There will be
Android X, iPhone X, and Blackberry X etc. in the coming months. Then what? WinMo 10?
Now, what do Zune and WinMo have in common? The answer is they have single digit marketshare and
falling apart. :) :)
Well Roger, you would be right if Xbox sales volumes were dropping off and if Microsoft had made no effort to improve the platform by introducing new CPU and GPU configs. However, as they have you're wrong.
Was the original Xbox 360 prone to overheating? Absolutely. In fact that 60% feels low. Has the Jasper board fixed these issues in the main? Absolutely yes. Does the Xbox 360 sell well? Again absolutely.
Now WimMo is a different matter and I remain unconvinced by 6.5 with 7 feeling too far away.
APPLE! Thank you for the $29 marble theme! It will be worth it!
Microsoft = 100% FAIL
So engadget, you would rather Microsoft lie to you? They know it was a big problem and they did a great job fixing their mistake. This shows that they arent the pure evil some fruit fans want you to believe. I guess they could have called it a feature.
Fruit fans? WTF does that have to do with fruit (or Apple for those not reading closely). Can we have one discussion on this blog that doesn't come down to Apple vs. Microsoft. Apple isn't even competing with Microsoft in the game market. If you are going to make a dig on a company, slam Sony for no backwards compatibility, no Netflix, and no hulu. Don't be an f'n troll.
+1 to mus_guy76
Finally some sanity on the Internet.
Lying, and not admitting the truth, are completely different.
@mus_guy76, speaking of things completely off topic... way to bring the PS3 into a discussion about what a horrible failure rate the 360 has. Fanboyism at its finest, ladies and gentlemen.
+1 for Billy, his points are very valid.
yea i agree they have done well with replacing bad Xbox 360's ummmm....wait wait one second .... alot of other people who have ran out of warranty time are pretty much screwed. What about them people. Oh and not to mention thats just a sad sad way to get afoot hold on the console gaming market...its just sad so sad.. they best do better job to the next console ...... cuz now alot of people know its a piece of shit ...and not near as powerful as the PS3!!!! Plenty of my friends now wish they had got a PS3. or even a Nintendo Wii
Microsoft is a low low dirty company ... they have some good sides to them but mostly bad!!! Follow that never!!!
@mus_guy76
Why is it every time somebody brings up a competing product as done in this context, there are people calling foul. But yet you do not see one person writing the same when one of the usual Apple suspects does the same? Take a look at the Zune thread a few articles ago (or any Zune article), it is full of people saying much worse than James did, and yet we never hear from those "I would just like to have peace and harmony" people there. Why not?
Also, Apple is happy to run TV ad after TV ad or give keynotes about the game machine they produce in an iPhone or iTouch. People like to talk about how it is going to change the games industry. Some have even flat-out said that it was going to push the 360 out of the market. But when it is disadvantageous to an argument, suddenly it is not a game machine.
@Alienicecooler
Your ignorance amuses me. You default to a PS3 hugging stance. In no way is the PS3 "more powerful" than a Xbox 360. They are configured completely differently. Cell process vs. Power PC, nV vs. ATi, etc. Here is the bottom line: if the most discerning eyes can only tell the difference after examining the games in detail... then you won't notice a damn thing when you are frantically running for cover when you come under fire. Even then, it is more about the programming than the underlying hardware. The programmers have to make effective use out of the API's that interface with the HW to get the most out of it.
Move along fanboi.
Even the giant can't deny 54.2
Do they need to? Obviously no one *really* cares because the 360 is still selling and still has a good reputation.
Good reputation ...the xbox542?
"Obviously no one *really* cares because the 360 is still selling and still has a good reputation"
Ignorance truly is bliss. It's like nobody cares that their car breaks down every week, because it has a lot of aftermarket parts you can buy for it (that do nothing to help the fact that it breaks down every week.)
really andir?
Your analogy is flawed because they basically have a guarantee that they will replace any problematic units.
I had to do without my xbox 360 for 2 weeks each of the 3 times my xbox decided to RROD.
Now I have a Jasper unit... for FREE. The impression that I get is more than positive with the above average customer service and warranty.
And all new cars come with a warranty on parts (and labor) so you can get it fixed as well. So... yes.
It's a nuisance for either product and shouldn't be tolerable.
Umm...i have a belief that the actual percentage is much higher, maybe 70%
@x shadow
Why do people think that their guess on the percent of failures is a more valid number than this post? My 360 has never had RROD and I have one of the very first builds (it will probably fail now since I posted this...). I am not going to say now that the failure rate is more like 25%, because I have never experienced it. Unless you have actual data, please refrain from coming up with bunk numbers. We don't care just because 7 out of your 10 friend's units failed.
@Adderz
"Do they need to? Obviously no one *really* cares because the 360 is still selling and still has a good reputation"
Wow, 54% failure and you think nobody *really* cares?
Well maybe you should care it you think of all the money that could have gone into Xbox 720 development (or whatever it will be called) instead of servicing and re-servicing faulty units.
54% failure is totally unacceptable. You shouldn't pander to MS when they fail to meet product reliability standards despite how much you like to play with your 360.
Im just glad i bought an April 2009 Jasper console with 512MB memory. Even if i didnt i would feel safe buying a pre Jasper unit. The warranty is quite good and i would of moved on to another console anyway. I had a Dec 2006 Pro for a year and had no problems, then had a Wii then sold it and got a 360 again.
might as well sell that 360 now and get the slim. wayyyy better value and 1/5th the failure rate. Plus a much better 2009-10 holiday game lineup.
I wont buy a PS3 based purely on principle. They havent treated their fan base very well. Replace the glossy black and chrome case with a cheaper to manufacture and awful looking matte one. Remove the USB ports, the card reader, the SACD support and the Backwards Compatibility. Not to mention that i only have a 720p tv (like most people do) therefore Blu Ray is useless to me.
720p is more than enough to enjoy HD. If you screen is under 30", you probably don't even need full 1080 lines.
@Adderz
you do realize 720p is still high definition right?
jesus, the lack of HDtv knowledge in the world kills me....
Lol yes im aware its HDTV, but its half arsed so i dont see the point in spending more money on the expensive Blu Rays when im not going to get the full effect. Im more than happy with DVD quality for the foreseeable future. Im also not a fan of optical media.
Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" screen or smaller screen (many claim even up to 46" and smaller, but i'm gonna stick with 40.)
It wouldn't be 'half arsed' solely because of the resolution, but because your TV is a POS.
POS? Its a Pioneer plasma. Cost me $6500 (Aus) when i bought it 5 years ago. DVD's look great and wont be upgrading until something truly great comes along, and Blu Ray certainly isnt it. Its a stop gap. The longer people support Blu Ray the longer we will be stuck with optical media. But i honestly cant see it overtaking dvd sales any time soon.
Oh, so you're one of those "digital download" guys...
@Adderz
You are going to be waiting a mighty long time my friend before something better and more viable comes along than blu-ray. By that time your Pioneer TV would probably by obsolete.
For you to not notice the difference of an upscaled dvd and a blu-ray on you pioneer probably says more about your eyes than anything else and I would have thought spend that money on a tv you would have a good audio setup as well - audio is way better on blu-ray.
There are many reasons to get blu-ray but abviously they are not for you so I wonder why you have HD. The infrastructure for streaming true HD media is not there yet for it to fully replace optical media. I'd rather rent a blu-ray than sit there for hours 'ripping' or 'downloading' a 8GB mkv.
Your DVD is only giving you 480 lines NTSC. 720 is a hell of an improvement, FYI - you could get a lot more out of that telly.
Adderz...you know MOST people who own a PS3 already wont go out to buy a slim JUST because it's new. you know...because that would be stupid. If you don't OWN one you're probably not a "fan" so you don't really have a point of reference to compare and moan about.
Erm... you can still enjoy your blu-ray movies at 720p like im sure half the world does. Cos you know 720p IS STILL HD.
"Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 40" screen or smaller screen (many claim even up to 46" and smaller, but i'm gonna stick with 40.)"
BS.
I've got a 24" 1080p (actually 1920x1200) monitor. It's much higher resolution than my 22" 1680x1050. You know how I can tell the difference? Viewing distance. The number of pixels you can see is based on viewing distance. You sit too far back and stuff starts to blur together. Who woulda thunk it?
Oh, and here's an engadget link for you - http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/12/09/1080p-charted-viewing-distance-to-screen-size/
Presuming that Adderz is in Australia (since they referenced AUS currency), Australia used the PAL standard for analog TV signals which has 576 lines of resolution. That's a significant amount of additional detail over the NTSC 480 line US standard, and probably the key reason BluRay isn't ever going to be big deal outside North America as many here would have hoped.
@tuaamin13
and how often do you sit as close to your TV as you do your computer moniter?
we are talking about TVs here...not computer monitors...most people don't play console games like they do PC games (that being nose on the screen)
of course your 1080p 24'' looks better when you are 2 feet (or less away from it).
but if you have a 40'' TV that is 720p and you are sitting the typical 10-15feet away from it and you can't tell the difference (that much).
actually you just said that.
wtf are you talking about
you just made my head hurt with your nonsense.
I still don't believe that number Mr. Engadget.
The positive thing here is that they didn't lie. No wait, they said that the Xbox360 has superior entertainment value. Never mind.
Frankly, failure rate is not so interesting.
I'd be more interested in stats showing time, median average, before a failure. IOW, If I'd purchased one Xbox 360 right now, how soon should I expect a failure.
It's the comments about the Xbox that provide its superior entertainment value.
"If I'd purchased one Xbox 360 right now, how soon should I expect a failure."
Anything over a 3% failure rate is unacceptable. Compare it to the PC industry. If I set up a reasonably powerful "quiet" (aka: no spectacular cooling) computer tomorrow and put it in my entertainment rack it would run full bore for years without failing. You could throw folding@home on it and it wouldn't warp the motherboard significantly or lose solder connections like the consoles have. It all boils down to cheap labor/manufacturing. Microsoft (and to a smaller margin Sony) are SCREWING you over and you take it because, "It's a game console, so reliability doesn't matter."
I still have my release day 360 and it has never had a problem. I use it almost daily for gaming, dvds and streaming netflix. I almost bought the RE5 red one but I figured why bother, mine is still fine. I keep thinking it is going to die but not yet.
that was a bad choice of words....
i predict the RRoD in hmm 5 days
lol knock on wood
Did you properly vent your 360? I'm always curious about the people who say they managed to keep a release date 360 RROD free.
I fully believe that number. I was was always thinking it was at that rate if not higher.
After owning the 360 and having 3 of the fail and am now on the 4th one I am unhappy to say that this number kind of seems low and if Microsoft would come out and say 75% of them fail would not be surprising lol :(
I do have to give credit to Microsoft. They did fix and replace my systems without problem every time within 2 weeks. I say that is damn good!
yup. they have really gotten good at replacing the console, I think it has actually become part of the service for them.
I dunno why they didnt just redesign the console last year. put out a cheaper, QUIETER, more reliable console. I'm sure some company would help em do it.
My Xbox 360 died yesterday. The screen shows corruption and then the Xbox 360 becomes unresponsive. The symptoms are basically the same as the three RROD but I don't get the actual red rings. So Microsoft won't repair it free of charge. My 1 year warranty just expired a month ago. The console was already repaired back in June. This really pisses me off. I have two PS3s and a Wii and both have never experienced any problems. I will definately never buy another Microsoft hardware product ever again.
Ooopid...!
Yes you will. MS's pockets are deep enough to ensure it will have all the exclusives you want; just pray that the next iteration has much improved QC.
I am sorry for your loss.
Sorry... well I'll go ahead and enjoy some Halo ODST...
Mine is doing that too dude. The messy screen stuff. About 1 out of 4 bootups it actually does the red rings though.
Sounds just like a Hyundai spokes person.
No RROD here. Just a semi-corrupted hard drive on a fresh out of warranty X360. Thanks MS!
Considering the absurd failure rate, was there a class-action lawsuit that I missed out on?
Microsoft just need to come straight out with it rather than hiding the problem.
This is the problem with Microsoft though every time one of their products has an issue they throw out the PR people to throw everybody off base and ignore the issue at hand.
Microsoft should have first and foremost apologised to those people who had an issue with their xbox 360, given them a lifetime warranty on the RRoD and sent them new xbox 360's when theirs fails rather than old used models.
Well thank god your not running Microsoft or theyd be bankrupt by tomorrow.
in terms of units sold they are not doing so badly. This is part of the strategy, amass the install base and try and milk it. Even though they may be making a loss they dont need a PR disaster tainting the xbox image more than it already is as it moves into the next generation. The only thing forgiving the xbox failure rate is the price and MS's willingness to replace without much fuss.
My 3rd Xbox died yesterday. It is unacceptable to go through 3 consoles in less than 3 years... Hopefully since I'm in their highest category, "3rd or greater repair", they so something better for me than include a 1 month xbox live card.... new console maybe? yeah right
How many "Units Sold" are replacements for out of warranties, also whats to stop them from listing warranty replacement units as sales? IS someone out there subtracting all of the failed units from the install base total, nope didnt think so.
Would also be a bit comical to go out and say "Hey, it isnt 54%, its only like 41%", hehe
funny how microsoft fail on their products but somehow fixes it. i'm hoping to see if theres a fail on the zune hd in new years day.. :P
That would be the failure that fixed itself the next day?
Which only occured on the first 30GB model.
It's not like it exploded or started a fire.
i find it disturbing that despite the high failure rates, people are still buying it. when was it ok to buy and support a defective product? even with the warranty it still shouldnt be ok. what happens when the warranty ends? you buy a new one? thats just outrageous.
standards have definitely gone down over the last decade or so. I'll stick to PC gaming.
I'm tellin' ya, consumers are getting dumber every fiscal year, and companies are getting lazier because of it...
+1
There's no games on the PS3 I want to play, so I buy the console that does, if there's a problem, I would rightly expect the manufacturer to correct it
Seems to me that's whats happening, the so called "superior" PS3 can't match up to the 360, failure rates and all, hows that for sad?
It's like the really hot girl that's a little crazy. You over look the crazy moments due to the unbelievable sex.
But seriously, even with the problems, the actual "broken" time is nil compared to amount of great gaming accrued. I'd still rather have a rrod and enjoy the games/experience of the Xbox than a PS3, seems many others agree.
Most of you are buying the Xbox 360 for the all mighty Halo 3 and...
i love bees
Just hope that the Zune HD don't fail me now. And where is the Xbox slim/ mini? Microsoft are seriously not being innovative in the game industry.
ITS NOT F***ING possible! Did you see the damn failure rate? The 360 slim would catch on fire! Not really, but something like that. :)
What I want is for MS to clearly indicate the revision of the 360 inside the box. Simply put the code name (Eg. Jasper, Falcon, etc) on the box, and recall all the old hardware still left on retailers. Are there any industry/business that had the same percentage of failure without issuing a recall?
I give them credit for extending the warranty on RROD failures to 3 years. Mine got it after about 1.5 years and they fixed it for free, so that's great. But the failure rate of the 360 is still legendary. I would wager a lot of money it's probably the biggest failure rate of any electronics product, ever, by a wide margin.
My 360 will be back in my hands Monday after a week long tour of the MSFT Repair Facility in Mesquite, TX.
n.
Don't you mean Mexico? LOL.
Why can't Microsoft build a quality product to begin with? It's a great console for what it does, but the failure is staggering. What's up with this crap.
What's up with this crap? should have a question mark at the end not a period.
and "What's up with this crap?" should have a quotation marks in your reply.
Oh thanks. I missed that.
As I've stated before, with facts, with links, that 54+ percent ridiculous failure rate for that subpar product XBox was valid. No need to look for links to these claims, they basically admitted to the POS product. LOL
There is a bright side to such a high failure rate in this economy, they are keeping a lot of people employed fixing the dead systems and shipping them back and forth.
Keeping them employed where? I bet not in your country, thus doing squat for your economy and quality of service. Although I understand ppl need to eat and provide for their family by being employed but MS is still providing horrible service by outsourcing.
@ Emaster
They outsource the shipping?
Can Engadget not read? They said the first batch had a 16% failure rate and each set since has decreased, is it just me or is showing this figure alone disputing the 54% figure which I can 100% guarantee is HUGELY inflated because of fanaticism
inflated?????
I have had 2 different boxes both have red ringed. First one red ringed prior to extension of warranty so I had to replace it. Of the 10 or so friends I have with Xbox not one has gone without being sent in. I would say most have gone in more than once.
Is it possible to have a failure rate over 100%? Mine broke twice so that's 200% for me.
Kurt, that's still only 100%. Get back to maths class.
Kurt, as soon as Microsoft sells more consoles than they manufacture, there will be a possibility of over 100% failure rate.
They can't really deny it. Everyone knows the older 360's were prone to failure. Honestly I think Microsoft has handled the situation very well. Instead of shunning customers and pretending like the whole thing didn't happen, they worked hard to replace broken consoles and fix their mistakes.
"constantly improving design, manufacture, and performance."
Manufacture?? Stop having them made in China and have them made in a facility that properly solders the god damned CPU and GPU to the board properly so it stops red ringing. Instead they decide to compensate and cover up the error by providing "The warranty". They don't understand that the warranty process is a pain in the ass to go through. On the other hand why am I getting worked up over this. MS is not going to do anything about it anyway. I fixed one 360 red ring already and I will continue to fix it myself. I don't need to wait almost a month for a damn shipping label.
@ EMaster
Mine only died once and I got the shipping label emailed to me immediately. Pretty good I think.
I´m guessing they don´t dispute it because it´s an even better statistic than the real thing. I don´t have an Xbox nor ever will but do Ps3 and a Wii. Don´t use the Wii much but My PS3 has gone bust 2 times already.
1- YLOD
2- HDMI output died.
This within a 2 month period apart. Not the same machine, since they send you a refurbished one but still .... quite a pisser.