TiVo projects larger than expected losses, still taking the patent fight to AT&T and Verizon
By Richard Lawler 
posted Aug 26th 2009 8:19PM
posted Aug 26th 2009 8:19PM
We'll let the analysts make sense of TiVo's new projection that it will lose $8 to $10 million in the third quarter, larger than Wall Street expectations while projected revenues are lower -- we're too busy adding Verizon and AT&T to the patent battlemap. Today it filed complaints against both for violating three of its DVR-related patents -- Nos. 6,233,389 B1 ("Multimedia Time Warping System"), 7,529,465 B2 ("System for Time Shifting Multimedia Content Streams"), and 7,493,015 B1 ("Automatic Playback Overshoot Correction System") if you must know -- seeking damages for past infringement and a permanent injunction. We'd assumed it would wait until settling things with DISH to push forward against other companies, but it looks like we're not the only ones getting impatient. Beyond the legal slapfight there's a few nuggets for the bleep bloop faithful, with the Comcast TiVo on-line scheduler beginning to roll out in Boston plus further expansions on the way and the due-in-2010 DirecTV HD TiVo still on track -- we'll need a few seasons of Law & Order queued up before this mess ever gets resolved.Read - TiVo Swings to Loss, Files Infringement Suits
Read - TiVo Reports Results for the Second Quarter Fiscal Year 2010 Ended July 31, 2009
Read - TiVo Files Complaints for Patent Infringement Against AT&T and Verizon Communications in United States District Court, Eastern District of Texas; Seeking Damages and Injunction
Wow... Really? I can't stand patent wars :P.
Smells like SCO all over again. Tivo blows chunks!
I know one family with DirecTV and TIVO. Everyone else just has the DVR from their cable company.
The fact that you can get a DVR from your cable company included with your bill has got to be hurting TIVO.
Sure, TIVO is amazing and can do some awesome things... but people are happy enough with what they get from their cable company.
I'm not. I'll be getting the DTV Tivo the minute it comes out.
how exactly would that work (directv and tivo)? I mean they both have separate interfaces right? Please explain how these people you know do this, Michael.
@Cody >> "how exactly would that work (directv and tivo)? I mean they both have separate interfaces right? Please explain how these people you know do this, Michael."
Wow, Cody... you tried so hard to prove me wrong But, I mean... just take a look:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo_digital_video_recorders#Series2_DirecTV
http://www.cesweb.org/shared_files/innovations/innovations_2004/2787/mainphoto2787.jpg
http://cdn-write.demandstudios.com/upload//2000/600/00/0/32600.gif
I have explained how these people I know do this, Cody.
Next time... try Google before you make yourself sound like an ass...
Next time... try Google before you make yourself sound like an ass...
nice photoshop. BTW, you kinda sound like an ass
@Denver_80203 >> "nice photoshop"
Huh?
Are you referring to my avatar? Well, I tried to change it... and it keeps going back... :(
Thats why they're suing. After Tivo became all the rage the cable companies just copied most of the basic functionality that people want a Tivo for....which is, 1. replacing the vcr by recording tv digitally at scheduled times, 2. time-warping/time-shifting and 3. being less annoying when time shifting, aka fast forward/rewinding through this digital media by using that little automatic gap removal. The cable companies introduced their DVRs and have slowly copied these features.....so why get a Tivo now? They've successfully cut out, as well as undercut Tivo by even charging monthly for these features which they don't license. This isn't fair on any level.
So in essence, they've cost Tivo potential customers by offering similar services using a similar technology that they saw Tivo using and copied, which making money from doing so as well.
While Tivo may not be the first company to introduce these ideas (tv cards and software that does these things on computers have been around for a while), they were the first to introduce the technology to a box that sits by your TV to do it, as well as the service that allows it to be done, so unlike patent trolls, they really are being damaged by these companies who havent licensed their technology but are using similar features.
Before the Tivo, no cable company offered a 'DVR' and now they all do, and only a few of them have licensed it. That's not cool.
@Neoprimal >> "While Tivo may not be the first company to introduce these ideas, they were the first to introduce the technology to a box that sits by your TV to do it, as well as the service that allows it to be done. Before the Tivo, no cable company offered a 'DVR' and now they all do, and only a few of them have licensed it. That's not cool."
I don't even know what "Multimedia Time Warping System" and "System for Time Shifting Multimedia Content Streams" and "Automatic Playback Overshoot Correction System" means. Are those fancy words for timeshifting?
If so... TIVO has a lot of suing to do. There's hundreds of cable companies in America with DVRs that do exactly that...
On a related note... I kinda like getting a DVR from the cable company. It makes it easy on consumers. You call the cable company and they bring out the box... instead of going to a store, bringing home a TIVO, plugging it in, then subscribing to another service, etc. While TIVO may be the best DVR ever... more people are getting a DVR because it comes from their cable company.
If TIVO did indeed patent the idea of the DVR in 2001... why the hell did so many other companies start making their own DVRs? Hello patent woes...
I thought companies hired people from preventing law suites like these from happening?
They do, but they probably figured they could make more money than the cost of the legal battles, so they went forward. Even if they lose the lawsuit, it's not like they have to give the profits back to anyone.
If they don't get the Series-4 out they're going to be bleeding more.
Come on TiVo, get with the program, get Series 4 out there at least on people's radar!!
If you can't innovate... LITIGATE!
These guys actually did innovate and got ripped off.
If you can't self-control... TROLL!
Tivo is one of the few innovations that rightly deserves a patent, IMHO.
What ?? i have been waiting for the Comcast Tivo for ever and i live in Mass .. I thought they quit that because i never heard about it again
Http://www.drshocker.com
Not sure what's different about comcast in Mass but, in Colorado you order Comcast and get cablecards for your Tivo.
Not surprising that TiVo is hurting. At one point, TiVo was the only game in town when it came to DVRs. Now with most cable TV providers offering them, or people going out and building DVR systems themselves, the competition is fierce. It also wouldn't surprise me if the TiVo company fades away over the next few years. Although, the name TiVo itself may remain as a part of the technological lexicon.
I hate this crap. How can or why should you really be able to patent simple stuff. I have uverse and tivo is superior in functionality BUT I do have a whole house dvr through ATT which allows control from anywhere in the house. I still cannot believe 1 click ordering is patented. I see where TIVO is coming from in certain respect, but the lawsuit crap has got to stop.
Tivo is a classic example of how not to run a technology company. At one point, they had the entire DVR market LOCKED UP. Aside from their market dominance, their product was the finest on the market by far. Somehow they managed to screw the pooch on their first partnership with DirectTV, and not strike licensing deals with other STB manufacturers who supplied the cable companies. In the meantime, they allowed their product's technology to languish for years while others caught up and stole ideas. Today Tivo is struggling to stay off life support yet they STILL have the best product on the market. Sad really.
Sounds an awful lot like Palm…Engadget, we need an intervention!
I got my first DirecTV DVR (UltimateTV, which, in fairness, wasn't bad at all) back in 2001. However, I've been a loyal DirecTiVo user/hacker since the Hughes SDDVR40 was first released and I haven't looked back. DirecTV's current DVRs are total crap. No other DVR solution I've ever seen can hold a candle to DirecTiVo.
I cannot WAIT for the DirecTiVo's triumphant return!
I don't understand how TiVo isn't making a ton of money. I have two TiVo boxes and I pay $23 a month for a GUIDE!? I love my TiVo, enough to pay monthly, but I don't really see the value in the monthly payments. I pay it because the product is superior than anything else that I've seen.
Also, how is it even legal to patent stuff like rewind or 1-click anything?
Tivo missed the boat on licensing its interface to cable TV DVRs.
Unless they can get back into that market I don't see them ever making a profit.
The clunky "cablecard" is enough of a pain to use that most will pick the cable company's DVR over a standalone Tivo.
Since I have several standalone Tivos I'd hate to see that.