Sure, it's not exactly news to hear that the Xbox 360 is the most unreliable console of the big three, but just how unreliable is it? Now there's a point of contention. The good news for Microsoft, of sorts, is that a new study from SquareTrade found that
just 23.7% of Xbox 360 consoles failed within the first two years of ownership, which is actually a fair bit better than some of the previous numbers that
topped 50%. The study also found that 10% of PlayStation 3 users reported a system failure, compared to a mere 2.7% of Wii owners. The Wii actually fared the worst when it came to power and remote control issues, however, while the most common problems with the Xbox 360 and PS3 were disc read errors and output issues. For its part, while Microsoft hasn't responded to this particular study, it has
previously pointed to its "best warranty in the industry" to reassure its users and, of course, to its more recently-produced consoles, which are less likely to buckle under the pressure of a marathon
Call of Duty session.
[Via
InformationWeek]
posted Sep 4th 2009 2:43PM
My 40GB PS3 still works.
** clicks low rank on self **
My PS3 80GB No-BC works too.
So what if your PS3 still works? that's normal, in the other hard an old Xbox360 that still works is a miracle.
Some still got them working but they are in the minority, remember those are the old xbox360 i heard newer ones have much lower failure rate.
I'm not gonna argue with the studies but what i will say is that Xbox 360 owners, Call of Duty and Halo players in particular, likely put in 100x the time into their games than Wii owners.
Wii's collect dust in the homes of most people I know. When asked if they play it often they usually smirk.
Use my PS3 everyday for 2 years, never had to buy a single hard drive, recharge kit, Wi-Fi card, pay to play games online, had problems streaming movies, or anything. It just works. And now its only $299... Thanks Sony.
my 1st generation 2006 model lasted over 2 years of HEAVY abuse in a room that got well over 100 degrees during the san fernando valley summers. i must say it surprised me that it lasted that long, naturally i got a new one for free and havent had any problems.
MS may have the best warranty in the business, and by far they do. but that still wouldn't comfort me enough to pick one up as my primary console. To me it'd be like buying a lemon, but being assure that you're gonna have a comprehensive warranty for X amount of years. Sounds great, but the morning that you're headed out on a date, then find that you car wont start after you see a movie...well, that'd be a bit of a buzz kill.
its really not that bad. the week in which your xbox is shipping to microsoft and back, you discover life all over again, you fall in love, you smile, you breathe, and just when you think life is perfect, your xbox comes back :)
and btw, i havent bought any replacement accessories for my xbox, had prefect streaming made even more amazing thanks to my zune software stream to xbox alongside every other media server alongside my media center right out of the box within 20 minutes of whenever i chose to set up (or reformat) my computer, and my online just works too. just because you need to pay for something doesnt mean that it doesnt work, in that way, your whole ps3 hasnt been just working, since you payed for it.
Major issue: The 50% counts more than 2 years. You don't stop owning your 360 at 2 years
@phinnvr6
I too own a ps3 and it has never broken and rocks.
But the words you chose above sound so PR.
@Max PL
I play my Wii more than my Xbox and I had to send my Xbox in already. Everybody I know has sent theirs in at least once. I love to play my xbox but this is Bull.
23% means they still count the ones on the shelves LoL
I call bullshit on this study. Who the heck is SquareTrade and how can we know that they are reliable? how about some background info on this engadget? Your article could have just been the title with the amount of research you conducted..
When Microsoft does not dispute the 55% figure brought out last month (or so) i do not believe this and even if it was why is '2 years' the standard? this is stupid. if i were to pay AU$500 for a console i sure as hell would want it to last like a SNES(?)/PS1/PS2
This Edgadget is classic fail. They conviently skip over the bit in the SquareTrade article that points out that almost all RROD cases are dealt with directly and bypass SquareTrade, so their 23% is massively under what the true value is..
In their own words:
"Second, Microsoft’s policy may result in an underreporting of failures by Xbox 360 owners to SquareTrade, relative to the other two consoles. Because the RROD problem is so widely known to be covered by Microsoft’s warranty, we believe that more customers bypass SquareTrade and reported failures directly to the Microsoft. In a survey of SquareTrade customers with Xbox 360s conducted by email, SquareTrade found that over half of our customers who experienced a RROD error reported their problem directly to Microsoft without contacting SquareTrade."
SO THE BIG QUESTION, ARE ENGADGET CLUELESS IDIOTS, OR CHERRY PICKING THE PARTS THEY WANT TO KEEP IN MICROSOFTS GOOD BOOKS?
I'm one of those in the minority, MaxPL.
I have a 360 manufactured in August 2006 and bought in July 2007, been using it quite often for the past two years + a month, and it's still going fine. Barely any problems besides an occasional scratched disc.
I play with my PS3 pretty much everyday, if my 360 was still working it would be every other day. But as for my Wii, HA, have not touch that thing since New Years. I'm gonna sell my Wii to get a 360 Elite so it matches my PS3. Just waiting for the price to come down.
This is nothing new. Although I was sure it would be higher than 25%. I've gone through four Premium Xbox 360's as well as two "unRRoDable" Elites. I had a warranty on them, so it wasn't a loss.
Sounds like allot of annoying down time!
On another note, does MS warranty scratch discs titles as well?
Wasn't sure...
I think the whole RRoD has to be poor ventilation for the console, as most xbox360 owners dwell in their parents basements without any fresh air.
Maybe they're comparing Gala apples to Braeburn apples here. In this study, the 23.7% number applies to the "first two years of ownership". But the report of the 50%+ figure does not seem to reference a time period. It could be that some fail during the third, fourth, or later years. If so, both numbers could be correct.
I'm sure glad Microsoft doesn't make Condoms.
iFargle - your experience is a loss to Microsoft. Seriously, the continued failure rate must be knocking a huge hole in Xbox division profits. What could have been a cash cow based on popularity of the product has turned into a continual QC embarrassment. It's great that owners can replace failed machines, but this is not a business model! The consoles lose money even when they have zero failures, 25% replacement rates on top of that is just nuts. It's a good job Microsoft leaves making PCs to Dell, HP, etc.
Disc warranties depend on the publisher and not really Microsoft (unless, obviously, the game is published by MS), but usually they involve sending your scratched up disc back with a variable fee (if MS is the publisher it's $20, and I think at least one other publisher also charges $20) that makes it not worth it for old games but worth it if you kill your brand new $60 game (likely to happen if you have one of the oldest 360's that eat discs).
I dont believe 23.7% for a second. Every person I know with a 360 has had theirs fail. It seems almost guaranteed that all early 360's will fail within the warranty period.
when i read about people going through like 3, 4, ...7 xboxes i have to wonder ... what the HELL are you doing to it? i mean mine did fail, but honestly there has to be something else going on if you go through that many.
Just get a PS3!
Elite's, up until now, were far from unRRODable. they were exactly the same internally as the Pros. the Arcades got the new Jasper revision later last year, but the Pro never had it, and the Elites didn't get it until the price drop.
I think this is very unacceptable. Even though most people get another xbox360 free from Microsoft, there is no excuse to have to wait for another console to get back to your place. Microsoft has had years to fix their hardware issues.
Well they built the RROD into it, so they obviously knew it would happen. Maybe MS has a bigger plan...
I think you're right, RROD is part of the Getting Social strategy with XBOX 360, Zune & WinMo 6.5. I hear they are building this feature into all of them... slick...
RRoD™ is not a flaw,
...it's a feature.
ok?
Sweet I love companies with master plans. YOU may not respect devious debahavor. But I find greed itself evil and much of the population EVIL by default...SO it does not matter to me when people get screwed over? If you are already breaking 7 deadly sins you are already damned!
Good job damned ones! You have only yourself to blame.
I think their plan is to make UPS rich.
Of course wii systems break the least, nobody actually uses them.
It's no double MS botched the first couple years worth of 360's, but i'd like to see some of the statistics on the newer models.
Ironically enough, one of the common points of failure on the Wii only happens when you don't play it. On early models of Wii (don't know if they've fixed it or not), if you left them on standby with WiiConnect24 turned on, the unit would generate heat but not cool itself. If left alone for an extended period of time (like the half year between Zelda: TP and any other worthwhile games) it would fry the graphics chip. I had that happen to my first Wii; now I run with WiiConnect24 turned off. And I still hardly ever turn the machine on.
that Wii Connect 24 overheating thing is a common problem once you install a modchip, but you already have voided your warranty by adding stuff inside, that's why all hackers know they gotta turn off the Wii Connect 24 thing and works only when you turn it on so it's not on standby all the time.
The amount of play the average console gets should have nothing to do with it's failure rate. The XBOX 360 RRoD is pretty much a first. I've never heard of PS2s, Gamecubes, Xboxes, Dreamcasts, PS1s, N64s etc failing horribly at such a high rate. It's not an issue of power either. High end work stations generate consume tons of power and generate many times more heat than any game console and they certainly don't fail at that high of a rate. No one would buy them if they did and no one but a giant like Microsoft could afford to set aside $1 Billion to replace up to 50% of its products. It's simply a case of poor engineering and all the silly fanboyish reasons why the other consoles don't fail nearly as much are just that: silly.
@ Omar
PS2 had a very high failure rate with disc read errors because of the lens. There were many shops that sold replacement lenses because of it.
@oghowie: perhaps my friends were fortunate then. It's still pales in comparison to RRoD though. If the lens on a drive is known to be bad, a company can just change suppliers. The 360 just couldn't be fixed until Microsoft redesigned the guts.
Well I just had two 360's that were manufactured in 4th quarter 2007 die on me in the last month, so I can say that the Falcon chipset certainly didn't solve their problems.
@Ridgecity:
It happened to me without any modchip, and I got mine replaced under warranty.
Boring! Go find some other news engadget.
Then go read another site, your boring the rest of us
I've had mine 2 years now, still going strong (as peanut butter falls on xbox and is attacked by pack of dogs)
P.S. - Only people who enjoy "blowing hard" play tuba...
Well, that must be nice. The rest of us can't afford canine-saliva cooling.
showoff
I got my first RRoD after 2 years. I've had 2 more since... I finally decided to stop sending it in for repairs.
MY XBOX 360 which I got a launch still works never had the RROD.
76.3%
"MY XBOX 360 which I got a launch still works never had the RROD."
and in 3... 2... 1...
"a mere 2.7% of Wii owners" — what's the percentage if you ignore Wii owners who don't play it any more?
Yea most Wii owners barely turn on their consoles so that might have something to do with it.
97.3%
i remember when it was close to 50%. my friends 360 rrod'd and they thought i ruined it
Wasn't there another study that said something that on average, 360 users spend nearly 2x the time on their consoles than PS3 people and 6x the time Wii owners spend? You think that may have something to do with the failure rate? I know my RRoD'd once, but hell, it's on almost 8 hours a day between gaming use and media center functions, and I think it deserves more slack than it's getting.
"Wasn't there another study that said something that on average, 360 users spend nearly 2x the time on their consoles than PS3 people and 6x the time Wii owners spend? You think that may have something to do with the failure rate? I know my RRoD'd once, but hell, it's on almost 8 hours a day between gaming use and media center functions, and I think it deserves more slack than it's getting."
Actually, 360 is used only 1.11 to 1.33 times more than PS3 depending on age segment, and 1.42 to 1.81 times more than the Wii. The playtime difference between the PS3 and the 360 isn't even large. Nice try, but the 360 obviously has/had huge reliability problems.
http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=10007&id=120825#img120825
That's a terrible failure rate. It should be 3%.
Were there any numbers for Jasper only units? I got a Jasper when they first came out. Just wondering if they have seen any problems with it because I have not.
@Ifargel MJayHung Justin, and any other related posters
Thanks for identifying yourselves at the 75% of people who still have working 360's, but it still doesn't change the fact that it has the high(est) failure rate.
My 360 hasn't failed yet and I've had it for nearly a year. By contrast the power adapter on my Wii actually burned out when I plugged my 360 into the same power strip when I brought it home.
X360 kills competing products, that's a dirty trick Microsoft!
Try this test: Put a 60W light bulb in a small plastic box and have one puny, $2 fan to pull air through it. Be sure to block the air inlets with cat hair or an orange shag carpet. What's that you say, it gets too hot in there? The box melts?
When I first saw the heat sink design for the PPC Xbox I laughed and thought it would lead to trouble. A billion dollars or so later, Microsoft engineers have probably come to the same conclusion. Was anyone fired over this screw-up?
that's still a better success rate than marriage has....
nobody cares anymore
My xbox just failed today... RROD, only 10 months old. This will be my 4th xbox, all 100% replaced...
But who pays for the "Pain & Suffering" of being without your console for weeks at a time? Call 1-976-SUE-XBOX now!
How much does Sue Xbox charge for her 976 line?
1200 points
Well I have had 3 Xbox 360's break down at almost exactly the 2 year mark. It's so weird how they seem to break down on schedule. When my launch 360 broke down in 2007 I bought a second 360 as a backup. Both of those 360's (the refurb and the Arcade backup) just broke down in the last month. Hasn't cost me anything though, so I can't be that upset about it. Just glad Microsoft has that 3-year warranty and pretty fast service.
My two Xboxs are still plugging along with no problems.
Now the real question is how many out of those that fail within two years fail just a few days/weeks out of the 1 year warranty, I have witnessed two fail within a month of the warranty running up. First was a Premium console with a red-ring (my brothers), and my Elite failed not too long ago with E-74, Even better was two weeks without it, all Microsoft could do was give me the equivalent of
I'd love to see individual statistics for the different revisions that the 360 has gone through; I suspect that for units manufactured recently have much lower failure, maybe as low as under 5%
Now the real question is how many out of those that fail within two years fail just a few days/weeks out of the 1 year warranty, I have witnessed two fail within a month of the warranty running up. First was a Premium console with a red-ring (my brothers), and my Elite failed not too long ago with E-74, Even better was two weeks without it, all Microsoft could do was give me the equivalent of less then $5 in the form of a 1 month xbox live membership (barely making up for what they cost me in mine). Is this a big joke that we're all on the wrong side of it, why is it out of the people I know this failure rate is closer to 50%?
The RROD is a 3 year warrenty, not just a 1 year. Isn't the E-74 the same thing? My console is out of warrenty, but when I register it online and pick RROD or E-74 as the problem it drops the price to fix from $99 to $0.
so MS is offering lifetime warranty and free ship both ways on their boxes now?
I would guess those stats are just for the people that had them repaired through a square trade warranty. They probably bought that warranty after they couldn't return them through Microsoft since it was used. I have done 2 Microsoft returns in the last 2.5 years.
DEVO! :D
Mine works fine:D since two years of permanent use
I'm a big Xbox 360 fan, but I don't have a problem saying that the 1st gen xbox 360 pretty much sucked. My 1st gen RROD'd.. I got it replaced for free and the latest one went about 9 months and it just failed. I'll get that replaced for free and since I needed a 2nd Media Center extender I just bought a Jasper Arcade for $160 with the Dell deal they just had last week.
They had a big problem, but at least they steped up and did that extended warrenty thing.
thats right the 360 blows
I like n64
been lucky with my 360....no RROD.....but my DVD tray has issues......it would only open when it wants to.....Lucky for me I have a Launch day PS3 upgraded to 120GB
Maybe people should wait a year or two for an even more efficient 360 to come out. The new ones out now may just be waiting to fail right after the 3 year warranty is up (obviously not intentionally hopefully).
Y would it matter they just fixed mine for free and I had it since launch
I'm a part of the 23.7% :(
Numbers are a fickle beast... it seems that somehow over 50% of Xbox 360 owners are part of the 23.7% that have had failures...
i have been through 4 xbox 360's -- 3 RROD and 1 video card - what pisses me off in this world of MANUFAC WARRANTIES is that when your crap breaks the MANUFAC gives you refurbished crap vs Brand new crap -- and yes i basically only play COD 4, COD 5 waw, HALO 3 - Guitar hero - RELIGIOUSLY.... HELL someone has to smite these younglings - and my ps3 and wii have never had an issue
( knocking on wood )
I'll put your name to the test on xbox live -- terminator2366 if your up to a beat down
So, I'm pretty frustrated with microsoft. My 360 got a RROD about 9 months after buying it. So I sent it back got another one that lasted about 6 months before RROD and then another that lasted about 8 months before RROD... anyways Microsoft's generous 3 year warranty is up and my 4th 360 just RROD. It kind of reminds me of the movie Tommy Boy when Chris Farley goes off about warranty's.
In my opinion Microsoft's 3 year warranty is disingenuous since all they're doing is shuffling the problem boxes back out to people who get to use them for six months to a year before they die yet again. They haven't solved anything with original xbox 360's they only shuffle them out over and over again until the 3 year warranty is over then you can pay $150 - $200 to fix it temporarily or buy a new one.
I wonder how many of the 360's purchased are by people who bought them on launch only to suffer through 3 years of red rings and then bought another 360 after the 3 year warranty because at that point they were too invested in the 360 brand to drop it.
BTW, Yes I'm bitter about the whole RRoD thing with the 360's, I'm too invested in their games, peripherals and their XNA project (been putting together a game for the past 2 years). I've owned Atari, Nintendo, Sega, Microsoft and Sony consoles in the past and I was pretty happy with the first xbox, but with most large profile games going multiplatform nowadays I'm probably going to go with another console whenever the "next" generation of systems come out. Microsoft you've burned me, and it's gonna be a long time before I forget.
I've also had to send in three 360's for the RROD since the launched several years ago, and my youngest brother has sent in two so far. It is quite a pain to deal with, and having it out of one's hands when a new game launches... *sigh*.
The last time I had to send in my 360, they didn't even offer to send a coffin to ship it in... had to pony up for that myself...
I still call BS. I know 8 people of that theirs have failed and that's out of the 10 people that I know that own one. And it's not a coincidence either because they are people that live all across the country. They are batting .800 at least with my experience, that's very bad. At least they were all still under warranty and got theirs back. Funny thing too when mine broke I told the guy on the phone that I had gotten the "Red Ring of Death" and he was like, I am not familiar with that, you mean the 3 blinking red lights? I just thought that was funny how they were so nonchalant about it.
I hear you.. I think only 1 person I know has a unit that has not failed, oddly a launch unit... and I know many people with 360's..
best warranty in the industry? After 1 year, there is no warranty on all US products. After 2 years, as this study references, that "warranty" is void...which makes it the best of nothing...
You can always cheaply fix RROD on your own, even without electronic experience. Just google the solution.
This is Microsoft throwing its stockholders' money down the drain. WebTV, Xbox, Zune, Longhorn. That is a formidable list of billion dollar money-losers. Why is Ballmer's head still on his shoulders?
I have my xbox premium since launch and it hasn't RRoD'ed on me yet. The luck! An expensive piece of equipment that survives for three whole years! I think the three year warranty is over so if it breaks down soon I would feel rather f'ed in the a. I now keep it well ventilated and horizontal. I also pray to the gods of tech.
How do people continue to support that piece of junk
Because pretty much the only really bad thing about the 360 is the reliability. The 3-year warranty is great and largely nullifies the terrible reliability of the console. The games are the best this gen, the online service is the best, Halo 3, Gears, Netflix, etc. It sucks that the 360 is apparently built with Scotch tape and Elmers glue, but I'd rather have an unreliable console that has the best online service and games than a reliable console that isn't worth playing in the first place. Also if you are one of the unlucky who has a PS3 or Wii that eventually dies outside of the 1-year warranty it is going to be a much bigger hassle and cost to fix it than it is for a 360 that breaks down.
They are extremely lucky that they did a good job with Live .. the achievements particularly.... otherwise it would have been doomed. I never play online, but I probably will with a bud once Borderlands comes out.
I just like the sound of an unlocked achievement though.. it's rather satisfying... the PS3 trophies are cool but they didn't do as good a job as the instant recognition of gamerscore. Not to take anything away from the PS3, I like my PS3 as well. I think the exclusive games are better quality.. or maybe just more up my alley.. Halo kind of bored me.. Gears/Gears2 were fun for one play through but I didn't like them enough to warrant any further playthroughs. Probably best game I've played this year would have to be Dead Space.
I digressed to the point of blabbering.. ahhh 3-day weekend i need you...
So... Microsoft Xbox, a me too product created to supplant the PS3, best described as:
"best warranty in the industry" for the "worse product in the industry" LOL
so it's sorta fifty-fifty amongst failed units between 0-2 and 3 years?
"Marathon Call of Duty Session" indeed! That's how my last 2 died (I'm on my 4th 360). The warranty finally runs out in a month and a half so now I have a fan on it every time I play. Ridiculous.
My Xbox 360 failed about 2 months after the 2 year mark. Funny though because at the time of failure I had it over a friend's house so his kids could play it while they were staying with him. Got it fixed under warranty and then just ended up selling him the refurbished replacement they sent me. Since then it's been PS3 all the way for me. I can honestly say I don't miss my Xbox 360 one bit. The only thing I miss about it is GOW but that I can do without.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great system but I just can't justify paying to play online as well as all the Microsoft points crap. I love the fact that everything is in plain US dollars on my PSN purchases.