While Nokia wouldn't invite us to Nokia World this year, we were fortunate enough to discover a pair of its new X6 handsets on the IFA floor here in Berlin. On hand were two engineering prototypes, one of which was peeling away from its plastic shell while the other seemed less responsive to our finger-taps. Still, it's clear that the
capacitive touchscreen is far more responsive to human touch than the resistive screens found on its N97, or the
5800 XpressMusic especially. This was made abundantly clear when using the on-screen keyboard although some of our swiping gestures were inexplicably ignored in other elements of the interface. But given the choice of the screen being awesome or super-awesome (remember, we're comparing it to Nokia's resistive touchscreen legacy), we'll have to settle on the former for now. Of course, underneath you've still got S60 5th, for
better or worse, pumping away inside a chubby little candybar -- no screen tech can change that. See the action in the video after the break then jump into the gallery to see it sized up with a few of its S60 cousins five times removed.
posted Sep 5th 2009 9:54AM
Oh you, trolling the members, eh?
yeah... funny, don't compare it to the n900 with it's resistive screen?
*skew the data* just to try and make a point
and with the s60 - new demos are out for the n97 firmware with kinetic scrolling everywhere.
A typical American blogosphere headline if ever I saw one, Engadget
Can we stop the hate?
It's true and a pretty sad state affairs when they resort to this type of behaviour. This never would have happened when Block and Rojas where here.
Tricked by the TRicker...
Thomas Ricker,
Please don't listen to the resistive-supporting idiots on Engadget. Stick to your guns (like you've been doing) and don't let their mindless defence of resistive screens sway you into being less aggressive.
Capacitive screens are better for finger use. That's a fact. Don't build touchscreen phones if you're not going to use the best type of screen i.e. capacitive.
Keep doing what you're doing, Thomas - I genuinely support it.
This compares to Apple rejecting the Google Voice application and then justifying to the FCC why it did so. Don't make the same mistake.
come on guys, you didn't think the no-hate for nokia would last more than a day did you?
and then you wonder why you don't get invited to nokia's events.
A friend of mine has an iPhone. I have a HTC Touch Diamond 2. Screen/display touch-wise? Pretty much the same. The SW implementation is what matters the most, most of the times.
So... no, there is really absolutely no proof what so ever of the headline implification. FAIL!
after the hate fest everyone threw on zeigler the other day i looked at this title and went "O NO THEY DI'INT!!" *finger snap*
maybe those douche bags should have invited them. :-P
(Sarcasm)
Don't you guys get it,
Look, it's simple, any device with a:
resistive screen = sluggish, slow, and unresponsive
screen smaller than 3.5" = too small
screen bigger than 3.5" = unnecessary
device thicker than 11.6mm = bulky/chubby
device thinner than 11.6mm = awkward
device longer than 115mm = too lbig
device shorter than 115mm = cramped
But my favorite:
Device attempts to match these specs (and is not an iPhone) = KIRF! Knock off! Rip Off!
Meizu M8 = My point
Can't wait for the Nokia n900 (T-Mobile US 3G FTW!)
Currently using HTC touch HD...
You know, Engadget talk so much nice things about the iThings but, hey, I can't even see engadgets videos at my ipod.
But of course this is not Apples problem, its your problem Engadget.
Engadget, arent you ashamed you can't figure out why nokia didnt roll out an invitation? and you still have the audacity to brag about it?
I didn't see any 'proof' that capacitive is better... Sorry Engadget.
Yeah, the last bit where the swipe was is not easy to be registered by the screen... I have no idea how is that different from resistive technology as seen on most touch screen phones.
Yet, the biggest problem with the capacitive screen is the real estate of it is taken too much by the on screen keyboard due to far less accurate detection. Imagine typing an email with that UI or using that phone in winter...
Resistive gets way too much flack - to the point where if it's resistive it somehow must be bad. No one complains about the DS screen, imagine doing all those stylus manoeuvres on a capacitive screen... not happening. Bad implementation of the technology is more concerning, because some resistive phones I've seen were truly terrible.
You guys have gone low before *this and last weeks podcast*... but wow, this is digging real deep!
@originator
They must be leading up to the engadget TV debut....
capacitive is way better.... Just play with an iPhone and you'll understand why..
@ Kit
"Imagine typing an email with that UI or using that phone in winter..."
Imagine Thomas Ricker being chased in winter by a pack of angry beasts with nothing but his iphone to call for help.
"Imagine typing an email with that UI or using that phone in winter..."
I've seen this argument against capacitives before. It's so dumb. If it's so cold out that you need gloves, you're not going to be typing on a resistive screen either, becuase your won't be any better or worse with gloves on. And if you're talking about using a stylus for text input, anything past a URL is just far too slow and annoying to tap an on-screen keyboard with a stylus.
I don't see a comfortable, accurate, or quick way to type anything on any phone when it's so cold that you need gloves on, resistive, capacitive, or HW keyboard.
This whole thing comes down to preference, but please, if you're going to argue your case, making points like that will only hurt your case...
You're right, the whole 'Gloves' arguement is washed out. Trying to touch a screen with gloves on would be even LESS accurate then using a capacative.
If only you could use resistive technology with some kind of object that you could hold in your hand, one that is small enough that it will register most taps. Similar to using a pen on paper. HEY, we could make it like an inkless pen! And if it's thin enough, this inkless pen (or 'Stylus', if you will) could fit right into the phone you're using.
But hey, what do I know?
i said it whas capactive!!!
there is nothing really wrong with s60, i used it, has plenty of customization options, more than winmo anyway
I don't know... I've owned two S60 phones and my current WM6.5/Diamond2 is a lot better to operate and has more than enough customisations available.
I really have to completely disagree with this.
Coming someone who has used both WinMo and Symbian, in the area of customization, WinMo undeniably and absolutely topples Symbian phones in every imaginable way. Not only does WinMo comes with multiple interfaces that changes the way the OS works (default interfaces and third party UIs), which is something I'm not even sure Symbian has, but it comes with innumerable apps design to affect even basic usability in the phone (apps that lets you change how the GPS hardware works, how high the volume is amplified, what programs is installed upon hard reset, and etc).
Furthermore, WinMo phones are the only phones I know of in which you can change the ROMs. Not only can you change the WinMo one to a alternative that looks and works completely different, but you can even upgrade the WinMo version or even use Linux (albeit a WIP Linux most of the time). I've certainly never heard of such a thing on Symbian phones.
As a disclaimer (I feel the need to add this because there seems to be a lot of people on Engadget that hates WinMo and those who use it), I am not a biased WinMo user. In all honesty, I currently do use a WinMo phone (HTC Raphael), but I'm also about to be in possession of a Nokia E71 soon. It has nothing to do with bias, it's just what I see as reality.
i still prefer s60, but that's just me. you can keep your customisation, i'll take speed thanks.
Yeah me neither. I like my stylus in certain situations.
Good, cause HTC is coming out with a capacitive touch working stylus.
People need to give up on resistive touchscreens.
Want a stylus? They make them for capacitive touchscreens. Get over it. Just because iPhone uses capacitive doesn't mean it's useless and brings nothing new. Multitouch is a huge innovation.
Let Resistive die. It sucks and there's not one reason it should still be around.
summed it up quite nicely.
Your right. Multitouch was a huge innovation. When it was invented in the early 80's.
Doesn't change the fact that capacitive is more capable than resistive. Thanks, though.
You guys at engadget do realize that there are different kinds of capacitive and different kinds of resistive screens, right? Right?
And where's this proof of capacitive being better?
Can you choose one pixel with capacitive screen? (Hint: No, you can not. That's a fact which means that resistive is better when it comes to accuracy.)
And multitouch means nothing as it's possible to do in resistive screens as well.
"Nokia wouldn't invite us to Nokia World this year"
OWNED. Act like bitches for a bit more and you can be quite sure you won't be going next year either (or of course you can go if you pay the 700+ euros ticket).
My personal prediction: resistive screens will become even more dominant on the market after this capacitive hype has calmed down.
It's not impossible but it's never done.
I love how people low rank me but only one takes a second to explain why they like resistive touchscreens.
People here just love them because they do. Why? They don't know, it's just cool to fight the power. The last comment I saw on the matter was highest ranked, and was simply someone saying "Resistive touchscreens are better, be a man and use some force."
Or, I can not have to worry about force or misinterpretations and simply use the superior capacitive touchscreen.
@Eric: what kind of idiot would make 1-pixel buttons?
That said, the real reason I prefer capacitive is because every resistive screen I've used has either been scratched up by the stylus after about a year of use or won't respond to finger touch unless you mash it so hard the colors warp. Also, I like the protection of a hard glass screen.
It isn't the stylus that makes the accuracy, its the underlying technology.
With resistive, the technology doesnt mind how tiny the contact is. Even a pinpoint works as a contact is a contact.
With capasitive you cant have a tiny point, as the detection is made with capacitance which is area based process. You can't have a pinpoint as it has such a tiny capacitance its undetectable.
So, resistive is like typing with fingers, capacitive is like typing with elbows. You get a general area where the point is, but not accuretely.
So here's typed with fingers:
resistive
And with elbows:
cvap0assdeiotygiovb erd
@DeoWulf
Firstly, the pixel comment was to do with accuracy of the pointing device - not it's use. But that being said, you might find graphic artists are interested in accuracy. And as for capacitive being more hardy, sure, I agree with you entirely, my resistive would scratch if I didn't use screen protectors - but at least I can use it whilst wearing gloves.
The point of a resistive-and-stylus combo isn't merely because "it's more precise" and that for some reason we need to click 1x1pixel buttons.
When we write on paper, we write with pens and pencils, not fingers. The stylus is the best and most precise analog (and therefore most effective) for that behavior.
For parts of the GUI (flick-scrolls and large buttons), it's certainly better to use capacitive. But on these message-centric devices, making it easy to launch an app is pointless if it's a pain to type.
And English is far from the only language widely used in the world: Chinese, Korean, and Japanese (among several language that use complex scripts) are better served via handwriting than button-pecking, /especially/ if it's a choice between one large writing pad versus dozens of miniature keys.
There is no clear winner. Everyone weighs these factors differently (some people only ever need English soft-keyboard, some people don't mind pressing /slightly/ harder on resistive screens).
@Eric:
"Can you choose one pixel with capacitive screen? (Hint: No, you can not. That's a fact which means that resistive is better when it comes to accuracy.)"
You're not getting the point: here we're talking about handheld devices, so naturally a good UI should be eye-friendly and finger-friendly. Sure, accuracy is a technical downside, but at no point would you want to be choosing such tiny UI objects on such small screens. If you need to do so, usually it would be the fault of an improvable UI design.
On the other hand, of course, the accuracy of resistive touchscreens is very useful for bigger screens, especially for graphics design UI.
Each type of touchscreen has its ups and downs, but one is definitely more suitable than the other depending on the device's form factor.
fh made a good point about the difference between typing and handwriting: earlier today I was at an SMS competition (summer camp reunion thingy), and I came first with my iPhone in the English round (typing), but only second in the Chinese round (handwriting).
(Chinese typing still requires the access to a search result list of some sort)
Wow. Resistive folks are up in arms.
Technically, capacitive allows you to be accurate as well. It's just there's no capacitive-friendly part on your body thats more pointy than your fingers. But there ARE capacitive-friendly styluses already out there.
In either case, they're demonstrating the responsiveness of the screen rather than its accuracy. Since resistives have another layer to 'press' through (to close the circuit), its technically a little less responsive... mechanically.
Newone:
I hereby award you your PHd for conclusively proving that resistive>capacitive. At least when it comes to accuracy.
@deowulf
the only reason i don't like capacitive is because i don't want my UI to look like something out of a PLAYSKOOL phone, everything is OMGHUGE on a capacitive screen
Having spent time with a Nokia 5530, from this short and not very informative video, there is NO difference at all. The 5530 screen is very responsive, and being able to use the stylus made it more fun and more versatile. The problem on the touch screen N series devices, including the N97 is the lack of consistency in the interface. Some items require one touch, others, two. Nokia's reasons for this are sound, you may want to apply an action to a selected item. However, the simpler and more logical (Captain) solution is to display a pop up menu of options if one holds ones finger (or stylus) down over the item - in a similar manner to the iPhone keyboard, where if you hold down the appropriate letter key, a selection of accented alternatives appear.
It's all about use case scenarios and good design.
"It's just uh.... it's just awesome."
Not. The OS is probably productive, but it's definitely slow in response.
Enjoy your imaginary phone call function on your Zune HD.
Lol so this is the proof that capacitive is better than resistive sorry not just seeing it.
I'll take the N900 any day thank you.
"pumping away inside a chubby little candybar"
I will write a strong letter to my MP about such flith appearing on the intertubes.
Yours,
Major Smithe-smith (retired)
Give me N900!!
Couldn't care less if it's capactive or resistive as long as it works.
NOKIA = FAIL
They sure are when they boosted their market share last quarter and already sold 8 million 5800 and 2 million N97 in 3 months(that's faster than the N95 that sold 17 million in the end).
Funny thing is that with all these new TS phones coming N900, X6, N97 mini, 5230 and so on. Nokia is becoming by far largest touch screen phone market :D
You failed with that statement.
Where is it chubby?
Not absolutely cutting edge ultrathin yes, but chubby? No!
And how about a bit more neutrality when reporting about nokia? You are bashing them way more than they deserve! They (or their touchscreen handsets) have indeed some issues, but they are now way as big as you make them to be!
PEBKAC? err, i mena PEBTAC?
Simply start accepting the fact that there are other ways to use touchscreens /other OS than the iphone, and that they do have their place, just as well as the iphone has its place!
The biggest thing I hate about the Zune HD... Is all the annoying fanboys it created on this site.
For what is suppose to be a gadget blog there seems to be a lot of ignorant people. This demo is pretty crap as a champion for capacitive screen. It doesn't seem anywhere as fast or responsive as the Nokia N900 with its resistive touch screen. There are responsive (with multi-touch) resistive touch screen as the demo that was posted before shown (surprisingly) here on Engadget.
Ok, there you go. Finally i know, why engadget has been bashing Nokia directly or indirectly: because they didn't get invited to Nokia World.
That's sad attitude.
But in any case, the video proves that the engadget member who was using the phone, is not used to using S60v5 phones.
thats why he was slow in typing on qwerty onscreen keyboard and also not flicking the contacts bard properly sometimes.
If you observe closely, the finger position of swiping was different when the scroll didn't response as compared to when it did respond.
I think Engadget guy was trying purposely to break the scrolling to prove his point.
oh few typing mistakes, in there before someone start bashing that, lol.
i meant bar and not bard and respond and not response.
WE GET IT ENGADGET , YOU LOVE CAPACITIVE...
Will i don't take your word , because i try both technologies myself, and yes Capacitive register the tab as soon as you touch the screen and is more responsive, but i don't find Resistive as bad as you always tell, in fact i am using Resistive in my HTC right now and it's work like a charm, add to that the Resistive is higher-res and can be used with stylus.
I am not saying Resistive is better but each technology has it's own pro and cons.
There's hit and miss with resisitve. Some are a pain to use, some aren't that bad. Either way, in my experience, capacitive is always a "hit" and you don't have the risk of whoever makes it decides whether you'll have a good experience or not.
There seemed to be a lot of misses in that video.
You are right... even though I'm a Microsoft enthusiast... this random fanboy surge is getting a bit ridiculous.
Yeah, I'm a Zune fan, but this new breed of zTrolls or whatever are getting on my nerves. It's just the same crap from the other side.
it seem folks on symbian cant implement multi touch on their handsets!!!!!!!1
I understand what you are saying here Engadget. My ipod touch with the capacitive feels amazing, but that's the thing the software is more important than the tech used here. I example find Omnia HD with it's capacitive crappier in the TS use than HTC resistives.
And i'm 99% sure that N900 will be up there with the TS use. It's not always so black and white.... you guys do get more posts thought so i guess it's worth it ;)
This guy is more right than everybody else on the internet!
Resistive vs capacitive doesn't matter. It's all about the software.
I tired out the N900 in the Nokia Flagship store in Helsinki yesterday - The resistive screen on it rocks. Much better experience than N97. Nokia needs seriously sack the N97 team and concentrate their efforts on Maemo, if they are to prevail in smartphones.
How is the scratch resistancy of the screen as this is my main concern with the N900. Thanks for your reply.
I compared my i8910 with the N97 of a friend of mine... some OS-es, slightly larger CAP screen on the i8910 and guess what: I prefer the touch expierience of Nokia's resistive screen. It's more precise and not hyper-sensitive which can be annoying.
Engadget, give up the hate already. I'm sorry you weren't invited to Nokia World. Those things happen you know, live whit it and enjoy the drinks at the Apple stand.
When it comes to touchscreen tech, the resistive screen on the N900 seems just as responsive as any capacitive one I've seen. It also has got the added bonus of being able to be poked with nails, stylus, or your choice of guitar pick (I usually select soft for those ear-soothing Oasis covers).
Poor old Nokia not trying very hard to win Engadget's "mind share" I wonder why ?
if you were world first phone maker you will not give a shit to blogs.
Thanks Arash you obviously didn't really read my post.....
Typical Engadget narrow minded thinking. What about all those people who like to use a stylus for small details, the back of a finger nail and finally use a device with a gloves on! And if S60 is so rubbish whay after year after year S60 devices outsell all other Smartphones added together? You would have thought that after 6 years of Smartphone selling market forces would have led to Nokia's demise! But why bother with facts when FUD is much more fun!
As far as my TS phone experience goes most of this capactive hype is all about iphone, but i do agree that capactive tend to be better. It's just that good resistive can be better than capactive.
And i totally agree with above comments about the UI and umph of the device making THE difference here.
I want guys to realize how important handwriting is to East Asian markets (China and Taiwan, in particular) where Nokia is the biggest leader in the market. Try to accurately write a 15+ stroke Chinese character with a capacitive screen, as opposed to a resistive one + stylus, and you'll fail.
Or Japanese.
I got an iPhone here in Japan simply because they were being given away free (and I figured I could just unlock it later).
Pecking tiny keys to get complex kanji is a real pain in the ass. And although the iPhone character candidate list is comprehensive (bordering on "way too general"), the hyper-sensitive capacitive screen frequently mistakes my scrolling motion as a click when I'm looking for a kanji, meaning I have to delete the unwanted character and retype it again. And again. And again...
My old WinMo phone may have had a slightly sluggish GUI, but it never, /never/ gave me any problems when inputting in non-roman languages.
We're all entitled to our opinions, but I find it hard to believe that nobody on the Engadget team, as far as I know, appreciates what resistive screen offers for users. The iPhone craze really must have hit a lot of people hard in thinking capacitive is the only way to go for touchscreens.
What happened to that one video where they was using resistive screen and it had multi touch on it???????
I really hope the Americans will be left out totally someday and remain only with Motorola, Palm and Apple "smart"phones, because of all the hate and stupid things blogs like this do... Just stick with your paid articles, no need to write bullshit about others.
Trolls. I should have said trolls. "Fanboys" implies that they make a little sense now and then.
I completely agree. Resistive sucks, capacitive is the future.
Capacitive is far more UI friendly and more durable. The people who advocate resistive are dinosaurs who can't progress.
When Nokia starts making capacitive phones, you know that you're wrong.
Just FYI that viddler video works with the htc hero flash player. Dunno if viddler or htc changed something but Its working now :-)
Also as far its I can see a lot of the differences between capacitive and resistive touch screens is the hardware running to os. The capacitive touchscreen on the hero is reply very responcive.
HAHAHAHA, look at all the whiny resistive touch trumpeters. Too bad. Please explain why you need finite single pixel precision on a mobile device. I can write a one pixel line on my capacitive device JUST fine with my finger.
Besides that, all the idiots that say you can't use a stylus on a capacitive screen, and the people trumpeting HTC's devices might want to look to HTC'S OWN PATENT ON A STYLUS THAT WORKS JUST FINE WITH CAPACITIVE TOUCH SCREENS? GEE, I WONDER WHAT DIRECTION THEY ARE GOING TO GO IN?!!!?
I see you had to post that twice. Well you're twice wrong...feel better? Now go look at HTC's patent on a capacitive stylus...
"Intrepid @ Sep 5th 2009 11:04AM
@DeoWulf
Firstly, the pixel comment was to do with accuracy of the pointing device - not it's use. But that being said, you might find graphic artists are interested in accuracy. And as for capacitive being more hardy, sure, I agree with you entirely, my resistive would scratch if I didn't use screen protectors - but at least I can use it whilst wearing gloves."
Graphic Artists? Like the one that just made the cover of the New Yorker with his work done on a capacitive screen iphone?! Seems he didn't have an issue...maybe it was the zoom lol
They make gloves that work with capacitive, get over it already.
What you need to buy new gloves just to use your $xxx SMARTPHONE! Doesn't sound too "smart" to me ;-)
This blog provides good information but falls short on analysis. I would expect tech writers of a prominent gadget blog to provide more thoughtful, reasoned commentary. With full encouragement by some writers and users of this blog, manufacturers are falling over themselves to emulate the iphone in total and ignoring design elements that have been part of PDAs/phones for years,element that add to the overall versatility and usability of these devices (d-pad, scroll wheel, hardware keyboard, stylus, resistive screen tech). The analysis of phones has devolved into a checklist that determines how closely a phone recapitulates the features and design choices of the iphone (slate phone with no buttons=droolworthy every time). Many devices that makes different choices are dismissed with a "yawn", "fail", "fugly" or "chubby". Any device that provides the mimicry that some people are clamoring for is derisively called a copy. Capacitive and resistive screen have their respective strengths and weaknesses. Resistive does not equal fail. In the rush to embrace capacitive onscreen keyboards and "finger friendliness", the ability to display content has been overlooked. I dislike onscreen keyboards and UI's that too heavily emphasize "finger friendliness" because the take up too much space, leaving very little screen real-estate to view actual content. Hardware buttons and the dreaded stylus are a compromise between viewing maximal content while still maintaining versatility and usability. Manufacturers, writers and readers on this blog should keep this in mind.
Amen brother, amen.
There's a distinct reason why all of the handset manufacturers are moving towards capacitive screens and it's not because of hype. Capacitive screens offer a much better user experience for phones and applications where fingers are used most often. The screens are more responsive and don't require a stylus to use with any accuracy.
There's no "temporary" shift that will magically turn the industry back to resistive screens after a few years. It's all a resistive fanboy's dream, I'm afraid.
They're still busy with IFA stuff, I guess. There'll probably be a better comparison in the near future, if you insist.
@tmacfan
Please read the posts you wanna reply to before you begin your fanboi rant.No one doubts the sensitivity of the iPhone touch screen but many people dont like big ugly icons and handwriting recognition is not possible with capacitive tech properly as of now.There are people out there who use their phone for a lot more than media and show off.And symbian is very easy for people who are familiar with it and these are big reasons as to why nokia is the world market leader of mobile phones outside US.
I'm actually pounding these messages out from a Blackberry tour. I don't own an iPhone, nor do I plan on buying one.
@tmacfan
and i use an iPhone its a very awkward phone to use for those who are used to symbian or resistive TS(I've used them both).This is not only my opinion but the opinion of my friends too.I am a doctor n so are most of my friends so we dont use legacy exchange or whatever you call it and fit into the regular folk demographic .We will always prefer resistive over capacitance and I know lots of other people who do.
People who prefer capacitive over resistive can make their arses capacitive instead of resistive.
Touchscreens do not imperatively have to utilise either capacitive or resistive or even infrared beam technology (yes, let's remember the late Neonode). Touchscreens have to be responsive and all the rest does not matter actually.
i own a nokia 5800 and i have accidentally dropped it twice on to concrete floor. guess what no issue what so ever, except for some minor scratches on the top of the device. its still working fine. in fact this has been my experience when using Nokia phones.. the solid build is one reason I go for it.. I don't want to carry around a device in my pocket that I have to watch out for because it will break if I drop it!!
have you ever dropped an iphone?? guess what would happen because it uses capacitive "glass" technology ... :D
Played with the iPhone again recently, capacitive screen was great but the OS was crap and the keyboard was ridiculous.
See what i did there, i hated on resistive and iphone... do i get a prize?? :D
I'm curious. Is there another gadget blog I can start reading, one that is not so biased towards manufactures, and can give knowledgeable reports on technology?
One perhaps full of facts, and not overly biased opinions to be taken as facts?
Gizmodo. Even though it pains me to say that, while they have their snide moments toward other other manufacturers, they are far less biased that what Engadget has shown lately, and they reports far more technology news related than Engadget(see space week)...
Engadget truly has gone to hell since Block went away...