Look, nobody's saying Linux is perfect for every consumer (or even most), but Microsoft's "training material" for Best Buy employees casts the open source operating system in a bit of a bad light -- and isn't exactly accurate. A few of the humorous tidbits in the Linux comparison guide include mentioning
World of Warcraft as incompatible with Linux (despite great support for it under WINE), calling Linux's safety reputation a "myth," and describing Linux updates and upgrades as difficult and time consuming. The availability of Windows Live Essentials as a "free download" is also quite laughable -- Linux has endless free alternatives to Microsoft's Live Essentials, and many of them are better than what Microsoft offers. Not to say there hasn't been the odd consumer that was burned by purchasing a Linux-running netbook, but we'd say there are enough tangible benefits to Windows for Microsoft to avoid misinformation when talking down the open source competition.
[Via
technabob]
posted September 8th 2009 11:36AM
Who cares about Linux.
Its an alternernitive, that means competition = progress
Microsoft clearly does.
If anybody goes to best buy for this kind of advice, then this is exactly what they need to be told anwyay. Linux definitely wouldn't be for them.
Apparently, you're not familiar with servers in the business world - which have been using various distros of Linux (like Red Hat, Fedora, etc) for YEARS over Microsoft's server OS - due to Linux's highly stable platform (hard to have a server running 24/7/365 if you keep having it crash). Plus, Ubuntu (very similar to Windows & OSX) is getting VERY slick/desirable... which is why manufacturers are starting to use it now.
People whom actually use a computer for things other than porn. Unlike you.
wow, there is a bundled suite of products like Windows Live Essentials that can be downloaded from a single location and provide a seamless look and feel...and it runs on Linux? I didn't know that!
there is nothing about that infographic that is false. Trying to refute it by suggesting kludges and hacked together alternatives rings hollow to any consumer who wants an easy to use PC experience (ie everyone).
Socially invalid nerds.
@Brdystyls
Actually, Linux is GREAT for porn as those pesky auto dialers and trojans will not install!
On a side note, I have been running linux for over a year (running XP and Vista in a VM for development) and love it.
Well I don't. I have OSX. Unlike Windows and Linux, it never ever crashes or glitches. And it never gets viruses. Also, I live in an imaginary, hallucinogenic forest and sing with my happy forest critters all day. Yay Apple!
Steve said it best. Consumers with the technology savviness/adeptness generally know more than the average computer-hawking Best Buy employee. Call me crazy, but it almost seems ethical for BB to push the more user-friendly solution (aka Windows boxes) to the average consumer (aka noobs).
@inteller
Not only can you get a full-bodied set of windows-live-equivalents for every mainstream linux distro out there, they do indeed come from a single source. It's the wonder of the repository method to software management. EVERYTHING is available from a single server, and everything also updates through that single server connection. Where do you think Apple got the idea for their App Store (though they're application of the concept leaves much to be desired)?
Meanwhile, when I boot to my windows OS, I have to do all my updates: Adobe Updates, Java Updates, Windows updates, Firefox updates, and AVG updates to name a few. And each one of those comes from a different source and requires it's own prompt. Then they all try to run at the same time and bog my computer down to 486 speeds. Unfortunately, that's simply the nature of putting a bunch of closed-source software from different vendors on one system.
Quoth:
wow, there is a bundled suite of products like Windows Live Essentials that can be downloaded from a single location and provide a seamless look and feel...and it runs on Linux? I didn't know that!
Actually the most popular linux distro, Ubuntu, has most of this stuff preinstalled and the rest of it can easily be searched for using the add programs link. And it's rated on a 5 star scale so you know what you're getting to boot.
Until Linux has a single unified OS (without the various versions to confuse casual consumers even more), run every app they have already, use any printer they've purchased in the last 10 years and have an idiot proof update system it will stay in the top 1% of power users who know what the hell they are doing. (run on sentence alert!)
All it takes is for mom's killer sudoku game to not load or dad's vcast to not install to make them flail about like the apocalypse is upon them. That is why they stick with windows systems.
Linux isnt competition for Windows. At least not Vista or Windows 7, Windows Server sure. Linux is completely insignificant in the home market. I dont know what MS was attempting to accomplish with this, I bet they spent way more money on this campaign than they were losing from Linux sales.
I don't see the point of these, most people think "Linux!? I don't want a Linux, I want a dell!"
"Linux isnt competition for Windows. At least not Vista or Windows 7, Windows Server sure. Linux is completely insignificant in the home market. I dont know what MS was attempting to accomplish with this, I bet they spent way more money on this campaign than they were losing from Linux sales."
Someone at Microsoft doesn't think so... maybe there's something in that?
Why does the bar for 'Many' and 'Extensive" display 100% (A full bar)?
Engadget should be called Flamegadget, from now on...
Can any of you tards actually point out what's wrong with this? No? Didn't think so.
Ubuntu + Thunderbird + Firefox + OpenOffice = well over $1000 savings, and it runs a heck of a lot faster and more secure. Outlook takes 30 secs to scan through 34,000 emails where as Thunderbird averages about 3 seconds. OpenOffice does virtually everything Word does, (mail merge, etc), Base does justice over Access and links into real world databases natively (i.e. MySQL, etc.). I was developer using Access (Codename Omega at M$) and true developers know that Access was scraped twice before being released. Its a joke. MS-SQL? A Sybase rippoff and failed merger (MS took the code and left the employees high and dry). Just as Microsoft nearly missed the Internet wagon, they are slowly falling off the desktop and backend due to insignificant bloatware. If they would just take there marketing effort and put it towards actual, original coding. So sad. !!! Its about the software stupid !!!
Microsoft spreading FUD .. who would have thunk it ..
Steveorevo: I don't get it. You need to recompile your statement with the .tarball on that* website.
*"that" one.
Neither Vista nor Win7 provide drivers for ALL printers out 10 years ago. Some don't even work that are 5 years old. I know this from personal experience!
well i became quite interested in this blog as i used to use linux back when i was in college and it was a nice os, fast reliable etc, however when i got married kids dog etc i decided to switch back to windows so the kids wife, dog etc didnt fook up my computer right nice lol so you have to think that this could be a driving force behind users wanting windows over linux as a consideration for other potential users however with regards to MS chart ^^ who was honestly surprised MS like to act like the big kid in the playground running around taking everyone elses lunchmoney. and i honestly think that one GNU os could do it and that is CHROME that is a beautiful piece of software
time to sue the big MS again me thinks
sue them for what? everything on this chart is true.
Yes, you can run PC games via WINE, but thats a 3rd party app, this is comparing Out of the Box OS to Out of the Box OS.
Yes this chart is dumbed down to hell, but I hear more crap coming from Linux zealots then i read hear on this chart.
why...this type of marketing has been done for year by big business don't know why this is so different, than when a car company does it with their cars.
Should we sue Apple too? There's a hell of a lot more misinformation in their Mac vs. PC ads than there is in this. And those are actually put out to the consumers.
I have to agree with Grammar.
Yes, Microsoft did do some truth bending here, but much of the things Engadget listed as false is completely wrong. To begin, WoW isn't compatible with Linux. If you have to use a third party emulator (yeah, yeah, "Wine Is Not an Emulator") to run something instead of simply installing it on the OS, then it isn't compatible. Also, I really don't see how Microsoft's claim that Windows Live Essentials isn't available is wrong if Engadget can only say 'alternatives are available'; if 'Windows Live Essentials' itself is not available, then Microsoft is correct.
If someone wants to sue Microsoft for libel then they would have very little evidence on their side. This is coming from someone who uses Linux too.
Can't we just pretend we're American and can sue everybody...
Hi MarioSpitza and Grammar Delinquent,
I am not really sure what you would define as not-3rd-party. WINE is bundled with most distributions. In fact, other than the Linux
Kernel itself, everything else is "3rd party", going by your definition. KDE, Gnome and xfce are both 3rd party. OpenOffice is 3rd party. GIMP is 3rd party. Okular is 3rd party. etc.
So are you comparing kernel to kernel? I am pretty sure Windows kernel has every less functionality than Linux kernel.
yes we are doing Kernal to Kernal (thats the same thing as OS to OS).
"I am pretty sure Windows kernel has every less functionality than Linux kernel. "
Well the Linux kernal can't run DX, Can't run Windows Kernal Programs, and doesn't get authorized support.
so i don't really care about that terrible puke of a sentence you tried to conjure up, but everything in that chart still holds true.
@me:
Obviously you do not know what a kernel is. A kernel is supposed to provide access to system resources, provide the most basic of functionality upon which an OS is built such as thread scheduling, memory allocation, and low-level device IO. If the Linux kernel provides more "functionality" than the Windows kernel, then the Linux kernel is poorly designed.
Seperate from me's comment - where is the Engadget ourtrage over Apple commercials? This is one of the most blatant examples of "Everything Microsoft does is evil, while everybody else is clean as the driven white snow" we have seen in a long time. Perhaps Microsoft is doing something right to get the Apple fans in a tizzy.
I see, we are talking about different things clearly. You are talking about Kernal, and I am talking about kernel.
"Well the Linux kernal can't run DX, Can't run Windows Kernal Programs, and doesn't get authorized support."
hmm... this is ... what? what's your point here? Windows kernel doesn't run X (without 3rd party), doesn't run Linux programs (without 3rd party), and I assume doesn't get authorized support, whatever that means. Unless, of course, you are talking about Kernal, not kernel, in which case, I am totally ignorant about it.
(Do you understand what is a kernel? what is the window manager? graphical system? sound system? etc?)
@NohOne
err... it's nice you can randomly just write stuff you don't understand without even looking things up.
Some examples of things Linux kernel does more than Windows kernel:
- Linux kernel supports more CPU architectures
- Linux kernel supports higher number of processors
- while Windows may have more 3rd party official device driver support, Linux kernel has more and better device driver support
- in 64-bit, Linux supports more memory than Windows kernel
There are of course other features that Windows have and Linux doesn't, but most of them are comparable, but the ones I have outlined are generally accepted to be the advantages of Linux kernel.
me, the way Windows is architected is that they do not build CPU support into the kernel. They build a Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL) so that Windows can run on any processor available. Simply build a new component that plugs into the system and handles tthe different processor architectures. That is what let NT run on multiple processors, such as the x86, Alpha, PPC, and what lets current versions of Windows run on Itanium. MS needs to recompile the kernel for individual instruction sets, but there is not processor specific code in the kernel. Kernels should not make a difference to how many CPU architectures are supported, nor does it make a difference in how many CPUs are supported (it is simply a matter of allocating enough resources to handle all the processors). BTW, Win7 handles 256 processors, this is not a limit on the kernel but a limit as to how many microsoft compiled into the code. Just as in Linux, if you want to increase the number of processors, you need to recompile after changing a #define.
As for devices, a kernel should not contain code for all device types, that is what drivers are for. A kernel should provide a mechanism for the driver to interface with the hardware, but the kernel should not contain the drivers. This is, what I believe, Linux does or used to do - which is why you need[ed?] to recompile the kernel when you added new devices.
As for memory, yet another red-herring. Windows 64 bit supports up to 1TB of memory. So I guess you could be right that Linux supports more memory (although, it depends on the CPU architecuture, for example AMD 64 processors do not allow addressing full 64bits). But what does this have to do with the functionality of the kernel? And can you verify that Linux supports more than 1TB of memory? Point me to one Linux computer that has been tested with a full 2^64 memory. But what does this have to do with functionality of a kernel?
The difference is that MS has said that they are trying to reduce the functionality of the kernel, that is the purpose of MinWin - reducing the size and functionality of the kernel to as little as possible so the kernel is as efficient as possible. So I guess you are right, Linux contains more functionality. Where Microsoft is trying to deliberately reduce the kernel, Linux is trying to add more to it, when they should not be.
The Linux Kernel (Monolithic) allows Modules which are "basically" plug ins, but what gives Linux the advantage in hardware is the fact that those modules CAN be compiled into the kernel to run faster, but it's not needed.
The small (Microkernel) kernel approach Microsoft is pursuing actually causes more overhead because you need messaging and determination. Besides, once you configure the Kernel to the machine you are using, there's little to no chance of it needing an update except the most extreme circumstances or you want a feature only available in the newer build.
As far as our question is concerned... Base precompiled AMD64 kernels support 64 processors and up to 128GB of RAM, but you can customize it to your liking. The last big one I heard of was a 1024 dual core CPU with 4TB built by NASA. There's no artificial caps like MS puts on their systems to try to up sell it as a feature. You can theoretically use up all 16,000 petabytes with 1024 processors if you had the kernel for it. This was in 2007, I'm sure it's been bypassed. (Besides, with some software shops... not saying names... selling their software by the CPU, this makes it an expensive proposition on top of the hardware.)
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Largest-Linux-Single-System-Image-in-the-World-by-NASA-61106.shtml
If you don't know what this has to do with a kernel, then you should probably either read up more or step out of this argument.
"To begin, WoW isn't compatible with Linux. If you have to use a third party emulator (yeah, yeah, "Wine Is Not an Emulator") to run something instead of simply installing it on the OS"
wine isn't an emulator, it's a implementation of the windows libraries and runtimes (like directX) your statement could be said the same of windows because windows users have to install directX or c++ runtimes....
what engadget said is that WoW is supported (almost officially by blizzard look into it.) under the wine libraries ;)
A lot of people do.
Do what?
Your mom.
i'm hungry
"Now get out there and do our bidding!"
This is funny...
Wait... you mean this is SERIOUS?
Why not? Sounds like a reasonable means of corralling tech-averse customers. Grandma isn't likely looking to install gcc, kernel source, and applicable libraries just so she can compile a kernel module for her non-mainstream device (whatever that may be).
Windows: download driver, click .exe, reboot (maybe), done. Different strokes for different folks, even though those comparison points are misleading and/or downright false.
"Grandma isn't likely looking to install gcc, kernel source, and applicable libraries just so she can compile a kernel module for her non-mainstream device (whatever that may be)."
When was the last time you ran Linux?
Actually, Ubuntu is probably a GREAT choice for Grandma and Grandma-like users.
If all you want to do is browse the web, play Flash games, send & receive email, print, and maybe use an instant messenger, you can do all of that on Ubuntu without spending a dime (or breaking the law). It's more reliable and less prone to virus/trojan/whatever than MS Windows.
It's the gamer who insists on playing the very latest, or the guy with some niche market apps for which he only knows the MS compatible alternatives, who needs to be cautious of Linux.
Prices on netbooks have dropped low enough that the license to MS is a big part of the price. They are scared poopless of Ubuntu (or other user-friendly GNU/Linux alternatives) taking over the new low-price PC market, and rightly so. If Linux succeeds in the netbook market, it will get the recognition and user base it would need for compatibility to be a priority to game developers and those niche market apps, and MS will be up the proverbial creek.
@Andir3.0
Right now, as a matter of fact (plus I had iPodLinux running on my old 1st gen Nano for a while). Long-time SuSE and Red Hat/Fedora user (with a little Slackware thrown in for good measure), now walking hand-in-hand with Ubuntu (technically, Kubuntu, Ultimate Edition, and Linux Mint). I love Linux to death, but occasionally, you STILL run into "roll-your-own" situations. Much improved, yes, but still daunting for some (perhaps the majority). I'm sorry, what was your point?
I'm just trying to figure out what non-mainstream devices we are talking about here... and even if they don't work, they can always be returned for one that does.
Anything from an off-brand webcam to a nondescript bluetooth dongle, or simply anything that does not have a pre-built module or rpm or deb package.Remember when Flash (player) 10 wasn't available for Linux (for a good while after it was out on Windows)? Again, Joe/Sally isn't about to go through getting plugin wrappers to work just to watch videos on youtube. Also, how easy is it to setup global AD2P support in Linux (not just on a per-application basis like amarok, rhythmbox, etc)? Again, talking about grandma here.
Personally, I think it (Linux) is probably intuitive and user-friendly enough for what a large portion of the population does on a daily basis. However, given the sentiment I explained above and the fact that anything remotely techie appears to scare the crap out of some people, I can see how this approach could be effective in steering "non-enthusiasts" (for lack of a better term) away from Linux.
To reiterate:
- I think that chart is beyond bogus
- I prefer/use Linux
- I think it's extremely usable for people of nearly any technical aptitude level (the same could not be said in the mid 90s)
- Despite the previous statement, I believe that there are still a few small, remote instances/issues which would reinforce the stigma that some people have about non-Windows operating system
- ???
- Profit!