Last minute Apple rumor roundup: iPhone HD video out, no new iPod touch?
By Nilay Patel 
posted Sep 9th 2009 11:23AM
posted Sep 9th 2009 11:23AM
There's also been an interesting press release this morning from Harmon Kardon, which is touting that its new Bridge III iPod / iPhone dock and AVR 2600 and 3600 receivers can "play back HD video from iPod or iPhone products." Seeing as there's no (official) way to even get HD video onto an iPod or iPhone right now, that seems to indicate there's a change a-comin' -- and seeing as we've already gotten the iPhone 3GS to play back 1080p video, the addition of HD video support to at least some of the i-line seems like a no-brainer. We'll see what's true and what's just wishful thinking soon enough -- the liveblog starts in just a little bit!
Update: And just in case you couldn't get enough sketchy cases, Cygnett has some listed on its site that seem to show a new nano screen size, as well as a new touch with a camera. Things are definitely heating up, stay tuned.
Read - AppleInsider leaked list of new iPod models
Read - Harmon Kardon says new dock can play back HD video from iPhone
Somewhat disappointing.
yea no shit, and also the iphone definitely cant play 1080p without lagging like shit.
1080p is not demanded though, 720p would be okay
how about effin standard DivX support. Gee
I call bullsh*t. Why dump the prices on existing stock if what's coming today isn't new(er)?
Can you explain to me why any 4" screen needs 1080p? 720P is even overkill for a mobile device. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to be able to record HD content with the phone to watch on a TV later, but there's no point in filling up a 32gig drive with 1080p content for playback when there's no way you can see the extra detail on a 480x320 resolution screen.
Besides, even if they do add 1080p recording it will still be a waste. No better than the camera is on the iphone they might as well record in 720p. That dinky little lens would simply not resolve the extra detail 1080p gives you. So you'd just get larger movies that don't actually look any better.
@ Eric "Can you explain to me why any 4" screen needs 1080p? 720P is even overkill for a mobile device."
This isn't talking about HD playback on the device itself (although it would be nice if the mobile device CAN playback HD without lagging, even if the fully advantage of the HD picture can't be appreciated on the device... if you have an HD copy of a video and want to view in on the run, it would be nice to have that option). This is talking about docks that allow for HD playback from the mobile device, but on a bigger screen, like an HDTV.
@Eric
Practicality is why. I don't want to have 2 videos of the same episode/movie which takes up an extra 1/3 of my HDD disc space because the iPod Touch/iPhone hardware isn't up to snuff. For a company that prides itself on simplification and optimization you'd think this was a no-brainer for Apple.
Tegra needs to be in the iPod Touch/iPhone in order to compete on a processing scale. As it has been mentioned Apple's mobile devices have become notoriously bloated and slow. Something needs to be done beyond a simple speed increase.
32 gig nano pretty please
i hope they have a 64GB iPod Shuffle!
I think the HD output for iPod would be great if they also add simple media center interface to the output. This would be nice entry level media center for mainstream.
http://mymediaexperience.com/2009/08/digital-living-room-is-not-about-technology/
...
I thought the same thing...
they arent going to be as good as the zune hd, especially if the design stays the same
how exactly is the "design" going to stay the same if the device is new? what design are you refering to anyway? the industrial design - probably won't change. the electrical / component design - will deff change. the software design - that goes up with iphone os updates, so maybe but probably not.
Is it me or does anyone else see the idiocy of trying to compare unreleased products and declaring one better than the other? Wait until you have the device in your hand before passing judgement. Doing otherwise makes about as much sense as those reviews for unreleased products that you can read on Amazon, which I am still amazed that they allow.
The Zune will never be a decent rival for the iPods, here in Europe almost nobody has one...
@oneMadRssn: i meant the industrial design which is rumoured to stay the same, it gets boring after a while
@Kelmon: ive held a zune hd and ive held an ipod touch, since the rumours point to a same hardware design i think it is a well constructed argument
LMAO! Let's see. A higher resolution screen than the Zune HD. Double memory capacity (64GB). HD video out, and a processor that easily competes with the tegra. Since nobody is interested in writing apps for Microsoft's flop media player, I have a difficult time seeing the point in the marginal performace benefit of the tegra over the iPod Touch's new chip, which will be the same as the iPhone. That chip, by the way, consumes less power than the tegra.
You and I must have very different ideas of what a "well constructed argument" looks like. Feel free to have another go and this time try comparisons based on your experiences.
@Dax: Read the article next time. All these are in response to the rumor that there'll be no new iPod Touch, and the iPhone 3GS will be getting HD output. No 64GB, no HD video out for the Touch. Lastly it's not really a higher resolution screen, just a different aspect ratio(it actually has lower pixel density so it looks worse).
Ohhh Dax how drunk you are off Steve Jobs nutjuice...sigh
apple store is down!
Probably just some maintenance...
64gb iPod Touch with HD would be a big win. Honestly, the Zune HD looks amazing, but all Apple needs to do is implement HD on the new line and 3G s and M$ is back scratching at it's niche market.
We certainly haven't heard the end of the Zune HD story, yet.
"Applications", and integration with Windows 7 and Xbox 360 are all guaranteed. What, exactly, that all means, remains to be seen.
It could mean sideshow support. It could mean a killer remote app, or exchange support. It could mean MS launches a new xbox controller that you can dock the Zune HD to, both for mobile gaming, and as a secondary display when playing the 360.
All I know is that Tegra is muuch more powerful than any of the internals in Apple's current devices. If MS is able to market the Zune HD as both a Windows accessory, as well as an Xbox accessory, maybe giving out hefty rebates when you purchase a computer or Xbox along with the Zune HD, it's guaranteed to combat the "niche" lable that has plagued the Zune brand in the past. Of course, lest we forget that it's also a break-through standalone device with HD output, HD radio, OLED screen, and TEGRA!
It's gonna get real interesting, folks. I can certainly see myself buying both the Zune HD and new Touch, as long as the Touch brings something new to the table (which it's seeming more and more like it won't..... )
I see this being really minor event. They might even try to down-play-it hinting at a future event.
Yep i'm with you and no stevie jobs
So will the camera even be on the Nano, and is the only new improvement HD?
Letdown, much? =(
Well, on the not so recent pictures of cases for the iPod nano, there is a little rectangle near the top of the back-end of the case. So, I'm going with yes.
"Letdown, much? =("
Yes, the whole event was a total waste of time and I don't know why they bothered!
Oh...
Hang on, it hasn't happened yet and we're passing judgement based on bloody RUMOURS! Much more of this nonsense and I'm going to get my haddock out and start smacking some sense into people. You can decide for yourself if the haddock is a metaphor...
"Hang on, it hasn't happened yet and we're passing judgement based on bloody RUMOURS! "
Well, Kelmon, if those rumors were about a touch tablet or something that made people excited, you wouldn't have an issue with them.
Apple fans use rumors like a drug. Dont be surprised when sometimes the hit isnt that good.*
*This is not an endorsement of drug use of any kind. Just Say No!
EXCUSE ME °_O ????? but what about those new cases for ipod touch
Idk, we'll have to wait 'til 1 to find out if this is really true =/...
People mock the Zune but the ZHD looks to be a pretty decent proposition. Apple would not _suffer_ if they fail to bring out (or at least announce) a new version of the iPod Touch, but it might give MS a bit of a sales bump if there's no 'new' competition on the horizon.
I'm picking up a Zune HD no question if there isn't an iPod Touch to at least make me think otherwise.
The way the H&K press release is worded makes it sound like the Reciever is actualy decoding the HD content that's on the iPhone/iPod, not the phone itself. Sounds like the iPhone/iPod will act as a storage devices only.
live video stream anywhere?
new ipod touch had better have GPS!
(1) Did you read the article? The rumor is there is no new iPod Touch (a rumor I don't believe is true, but your comment has no relevance to the article)
(2) I would be surprised if GPS is included on a new version of the iPod touch... they haven't included it on either of the previous generations despite it being on the iPhone. Why would the start now? I suppose they might want to to increase the possible customer base for the TomTom app, which, at $100 a pop gives Apple a pretty sweet profit margin. But, since the iPhone's GPS is AGPS, and the iPod Touch has no wireless capabilities other than WiFi, would the TomTom app even work since (I'm presuming) it's written for iPhone's AGPS?
I seriously doubt you are ever going to see GPS in the touch. The iPhone doesn't do GPS by satellite signal, it does it by cell tower triangulation. So unless they add cell service to the touch or manage to cram a GPS card in there, and make it a fatter device, then it's something that won't be coming.
128GB iPod Touch with HD video recording as well as playback. HDMI-out via proprietary cable sold for $49.99. Xenon flash as well as LED flash for capturing all of those great moments in perfect clarity.
You heard it here first, folks.
"Now back to Real-Life, Kent"
"Thanks, Bob"
We heard your massive pipe-dream here first? Or are you talking about 2-3 years from now?
No, I'm talking about what is going to be announced today. Wait and see, young ones. Wait and see.
He didn't mention the price for it...$999. get it?
Btw, the increase in size will be just 1.2mm. It's a 3.2 megapixel camera that records HD in 720p and at 24fps. Slow motion video available in HVGA at 300fps.
More info to come.
@kurt711: The Macbook records HD video?
"Xenon flash as well as LED flash for capturing all of those great moments in perfect clarity"
Dear god, no. Direct flash is an abomination that makes pictures look horrible if it is used for anything more than fill-in light. Give me a quality sensor with good ISO performance and a fast lens over flash.
@Kelmon: Haha, of all the things in his comments, the one you pick on is that?
Looks like I still won't have a reason to purchase my first iPod product.
...uh, engadget, stuttering halting video is not getting 1080p playback...
...it is FAILING to get 1080p playback...
For the last time, the 3GS played back 1080p video just fine -- it only failed at super high bitrates and when it tried to decode surround audio. The normal 1080p file didn't have any problems. Go watch the video again.
That's disastrous if true. Merely matching one of the Zune HD's features but keeping the same hardware lineup for the iPod Touch kills it in comparison. Not to mention the fact that in the referenced 1080p test, the 3GS barely managed to convert 1080p video, with frequent stuttering and crashes. I have to say I doubt the 2nd gen Touch's ability to play any HD video, meaning that's likely for the 3GS only. Sure, the iPhone 3GS is competing fairly equivalently against the Zune HD at that point, but without a standalone iPod that comes anywhere close to what the Zune HD offers... (Before anyone bashes me for bringing up the Zune: Too bad. It's incredibly relevant and you're amazing shortsighted if you don't see that)
Regardless of what Apple does, it will still sell well - case in point: iPhone 3GS.
But those of us who actually know what we're doing will be getting a ZuneHD.
"But those of us who actually know what we're doing will be getting a ZuneHD."
That's a heck of an assumption. I'm sorry but the ZuneHD has a lot to prove and a long way to catch up. Flashy hardware does not make it a competitor yet. I'll give it a good 6-months before even considering a ZuneHD as we need to see whether it will succeed as a platform. Right now the safe investment is the iPod Touch.
Dude, the 3GS played back 1080p video with stereo audio just fine. It was a 30MBps 720p video it couldn't play back -- a file that exceeds the Zune HD's specs as well. It also failed to decode surround audio in the Avatar file and crashed, which isn't rocket science to fix. Go watch the video again -- does it or does it not play back GI Joe perfectly?
Bigger point here wasn't the crashing or stuttering(though that's important as well), but the fact that it was just down-converting video which is a lot less strenuous than actually outputting it. This leads me to believe that any HD output should be the same 720p as the Zune HD. The biggest point of all here, though, was that said video was played on the 3GS. There's no way in hell the iPod Touch(without any hardware upgrade) will be able to handle the same.
How is decoding a 1080p file and *scaling it down* less strenuous than just playing it? And if it is less strenuous, why do you think the lower-powered hardware in the touch can't do it?
@Screw Harry: Because it's not actually playing it at 1080p. The CPU is does the downscaling and then it sends the information from that to the graphics chip. The main strain of actually playing HD video(or any video for that matter) is on the graphics chip. When the CPU takes away all such work by down converting the video, the graphics chip doesn't have to do anything but play an already known to be working resolution. As for the original iPod Touch not being able to handle it: A: If it was, don't you think we would have seen it, rather than only seeing it happen on the iPhone 3GS? and B: I'm talking about being able to actually play HD video at an HD resolution, down converting an HD video and then playing that is of no practical use.
>> seeing as we've already gotten the iPhone 3GS to play back 1080p video
Uh, you mean when the video froze and there was no audio? You know, when it downconverted the video?
and the reason for the session today is for apple to advertise that they have nothing new to offer?
not likely
I imagine the event will be like this now that I am depressed from this news:
Steve Jobs: Check out my new glasses. Converse made them! Oh yeah and iPhone has HD, GOODNIGHT EVERYBODY!!
*4 hour rock show starts*
Nice try Engadget (wouldn't expect anything less misleading and sensational from Nilay), but no one with any common sense buys this sort of tripe:
"seeing as we've already gotten the iPhone 3GS to play back 1080p video"
If by " already gotten the iPhone 3GS to play back 1080p video", you guys mean:
- stuttering
- freezing
- altogether crashing
Virtually every step of the way, then sure, you got it to play back 1080P video alright, but by the same token, so could my rigged Ti-89 calculator.
If true, do you really think that this is what is going to be demonstrated? If this is what is going to be unveiled today then I put money on it that it will work.
FM Radio on Nano PLEASE Please please.......
I agree this would be nice, but it's NEVER going to happen.
Sweet, my Harman Kardon 2600 just shipped yesterday.
Yay!
Wat is more useful on a mp3 player a camera or a FM/DAB Radio......... RADIO
Why not Medium Wave? Sorry but the only radio stations that I listen to are on either MW or LW so FM/DAB is damned useless to me.
Good thing everyone is not you Kelmon, but way to speak up for the rest of us...ahem.
The iPod classic 160gb has been out just wasn't available for purchase .. i've seen them at flea markets and my gf got one from a tech convention she went to. so 160gb isn't a new model ... it's prolly just being sold from the website after today.
Bring on the Nike+ integration into the nano! One less piece to worry about losing. Hopefully they can add an HRM and update the software to allow for intervals.
Wow, if you are serious enough about training to want that much out of Nike+, why not get a Garmin with HRM? It does all you're asking with much better accuracy.
"and seeing as we've already gotten the iPhone 3GS to play back 1080p video..."
ummm....ok
"but there were some major hiccups: high bitrate 720p video off the GH1 stuttered during playback, and loading the Avatar trailer consistently crashed the phone's audio driver until we restarted."
yeah, thats what I thought.
This would be a very bad move if Apple did not come out with a new ipod touch..
They had a problem with the camera, what do you want them to do?
I wasnt being negative about it but I was just looking at it from an investment point of view. The market is so fickle that if Apple did not lead up to expectations..well ya know
Epic Fail, for once I hope engadget is wrong.
Ditto, I'm rooting for the Zune HD to do well, but I want to see that happen against tough competition. If there's no new iPod Touch... It's just not really a fair contest.
@ Scott
how do u know they had issues with the camera?
"leading some to believe its upgrade has been delayed due to rumored technical issues with the camera module"
I must be the only one that wants a hard drive Ipod Touch in addition to the flash models. ; )
No, you just haven't learned that it's not possible yet. The spinning magnetic disk in a hard drive interferes with capacitive touch screens, meaning that it's just not possible to have a hard drive in one of these and have the touch screen actually work.
Thanks for the explanation. : )
I have an iPod Touch 1G and a friend here in Japan just bought an iPhone. She showed it to me. It's a camera and a video camera that takes crystal clear video. The human eye can't tell much difference on the iPod Touch screen greater than 720p. 1080p is just a waste of everyone's time unless you are going to port it to TV. But Apple understands that nobody actually wants to do that. Microsoft seems to think so.
Her iPhone also has an external speaker and a microphone. I can't think of too many more features that could be added other than GPS.
So Apple should just focus on adding GPS, perhaps a new shell design in different colors, tweaking the already great OS, and possibly stopping the Apple store from disabling my free apps.
My only complaint with my iPod Touch 1G 8GB is the Apple Store disabling my free apps.
I bet Zune HD is going to be a big let down once people see how fuzzy the video is resizing 720p to fit the screen. We'll just see. Perhaps it won't even work out of the box. After all, the original Zune HD project manager quit.
You don't seem to understand how HD playback works... the Zune HD and the iPod Touch/iPhone have lower than VGA max resolution(420x272 and 420x320, respectively), meaning any HD video played on the actual device will be down-converted to that resolution first. So it'll be playing at the same resolution of the screen on the device and look crystal clear. It doesn't actually play 720p on that screen(or 1080p for that matter).
Mark... don't feed the troll. Ren isn't interested in an honest technical discussion. He just wants to bash the Zune HD and praise the iPhone/iTouch.
I encode video to about 900p for iPod touch. There is no lag watching unless the video was originally encoded incorrectly. I also free up all available memory using smbprefs.
Our poor, poor thumbs.
There are MANY legal way to get HD video into iTunes, most, if not all, of the podcasts I watch are available in 720p at a very good bit-rate. I'm SO sick of people only being concerned with resolution as well, high bit-rate 720p will look better than much lower bit-rate 1080p with high motion content ANY DAY!
knowing apple, the iPhone HD out cable will be iPhone->display port, forcing you to buy a Displayport->DVI adapter
Well, I kinda already knew there wasn't going to be a new Touch. I work in the Electronics department at a local Wally World and for the past two weeks, we haven't received any Nanos or Shuffles, but we HAVE been getting plenty of 8 and 16GB Touches. I just assumed they were releasing new Nanos and Shuffles and skipping over the touch. Despite the fact that the new 3GS hardware would be nice for those wanting to game on the thing.
No new Touch? Not even a 64GB model?
Damn.
What press conference was I watching?
"I seriously doubt you are ever going to see GPS in the touch. The iPhone doesn't do GPS by satellite signal, it does it by cell tower triangulation."
This is not true. There is a real GPS in the iPhone 3G and 3GS. They can also do cell tower triangulation as well as use Skyhook WiFi registry information to get their location with less precision. Where some confusion may occur is that the iPhone GPS on the 3 series is AGPS, which has come to have two meanings, but both are real GPS. Fist some phones offload the GPS computations to the cell network, and call this AGPS. Those phones must be in a cell to have a GPS location, this is still real GPS not just using the cell tower information. The second usage (and this applies to the iPhone) is that the cell tower can assist in making a lock faster for the GPS unit. It is optional for the iPhone and others in this category. Their GPS works perfectly fine outside of cell tower range in the hinterlands.
In either case, AGPS is real GPS. It just has two recognized definitions unfortunately. But rest assured the iPhone 3G or iPhone 3GS will find a lock on the GPS satellites even if you are in some backwoods area or even over in a foreign country where the assistance is not available from the cell system.
Best regards,
Tjp