Video: DFI hybrid motherboard runs two whole systems... simultaneously!
By Darren Murph 
posted September 18th 2009 4:07PM
posted September 18th 2009 4:07PM
posted September 18th 2009 4:07PM
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Why?
Why NOT.
+1
Seems like a "because we can" product.
Well I can think of one very good reason. Use the Atom side as a media server thats say connected to your TV for DVR, and your desktop for everything else. Now it can be done with one less box.
I'd rather they concentrate on a standard for blade server like desktops. Buy a new video card, slide it in. Buy a new processor, slide it in... want to get rid of part of it? Slide out the old. Use a standard back plane and a standard communication protocol and let the device manufacturers build devices to fit in the slots. Heck, I'd even be happy with something similar to the old PC on a card devices where the CPU, memory controller and memory are on one card and that obtains access to the other devices to do it's processing. Heck you could even use a little Ion or Atom CPU to do the device/communication juggling if you REALLY wanted it.
It's an interesting concept but $399? I can get a mobo&atom CPU package for $100, so you'd pay $300+ for an old 775 mobo only because it has an inbuilt keyboard/USB switch and (Gb) LAN, that isn't economically sensible to me, hate to say it though because the idea isn't bad.
Wait, I take my words back.
Two PCs in one case O.O
Expensive yet interesting.
Thanks for info, will be looking at it when it hits retail.
Make sure you post reviews/links to reviews of this thing when they're ready!
I'd rather not leave my gaming rig on 24/7 like I would a server....
'Cause you could potentially run a hackintosh with this thing.
Why yes!
oooooo, do want
DeskNet...top
Want so bad.
very cool...i don't know enough about how the technology works but if they can function so that the system runs the ion machine till it needs more power and then switch over to the socket 775, you can have a lot of savings in power usage..
Not possible as far as I know.
Besides, Atom isn't fast enough for everyday work, you'd want to switch to core2something on a constant basis in a month.
@Shinigami
What kind of everyday work are you doing?..
@EGOvoruhk
FOREX.
Basically, I make programs that make huge loads of money within short periods of time xD
It's not entirely impossible. It's just expensive. You'll need a few things:
1) Xen running baremetal on both machines with an internal network between the two. Xen can run in a similar manner to existing flash-based boot solutions (you know, how some motherboards can boot into a limited Linux OS to run a browser. Most Asus mobos have this)
2) All IO traces running through switches, with an interface to both machines, such that a machine can instruct the switch to reroute USB, VGA, ethernet, etc. to the other machine
So there's some custom hardware involved there, but nothing too insane.
So how should the actual switchover be accomplished? Well, Xen supports hot migration of a virtual machine between two hosts. The actual switch takes about 50ms. Essentially, it repeatedly scans memory, sending the differences to the other machine. After each scan, there is less and less data that's changed, since for each scan you need to send only the differences that happened during the previous scan. Eventually, there is relatively little different between the RAM images of the two machines. At that point, you suspend the primary machine, send the remaining differences, and resume the secondary machine.
The machine that isn't in use could be suspended. The actual switchover might take some time, but the user can continue using the machine in the mean time. At most they'd notice their screen flicker.
The problem? You're going to need near-identical hardware between the two machines. The Atom is supposed to be ABI compatible with the Core 2, so that probably isn't a problem. And both platforms can use the same chipsets (945GC), the same ethernet controllers, sound controllers, etc. Might not work so well if you start putting expansion cards in, though...
I'm sure there are a ton of other caveats that I'm not thinking of.
@Adam Zey: "The Atom is supposed to be ABI compatible with the Core 2" -- nope. Dual-core Atom is based on the same core as Core 2, but it has some features turned off--including virtualization hardware. This doesn't mean the Xen approach won't work, but it'll be less efficient.
@myself: "This doesn't mean the Xen approach won't work, but it'll be less efficient." -- or not. Yesterday I read a paper from researchers at VMWare saying that they'd tried to use Intel's virtualization extensions, and found them less efficient than their software virtualization technology.
And, no, it wasn't a marketing smear; it was a real academic paper, published by the ACM, with detailed analysis of why the hardware approach was inefficient, and how Intel would have to change its virtualization extensions to make them worthwhile.
Google "a comparison of software and hardware techniques for x86 virtualization".
I don't get it, so what? You can run a virtual machine using just one processor and it's like you have two...especially if you only need atom-like performance. Get an effecient quad core CPU and dedicate 1 core to the virtual machine...
But what if you want to leave the virtual machine on as a torrent box ? its still gona suck power like theres no tomorow, whereas this wont. Get it now?
This thing is the stuff of wet dreams.
@Kevin M:
He explains it at 8:45 in the video: wife surfing internet while husband sets out to pwn everything... SIMULTANEOUSLY! They can use separate kyb, mouse and monitors and dont even have to be in the same room.
From what I gathered, both systems can be turned off independently of each other and the Atom alone can remain on as a server or torrent box.
BTW, how can I dedicate a CPU core to a VM in XP or 7? Can you post a link? Thx!
imagine the heat in that thing.
roughly the same as a normal pc? atom is only like 4w of heat
Atom procs run cool enough that if you get one on a mITX mobo, the only fan is for the chipset.
It's only 30 watts. Most systems have 1 video card which is usually over 100 watts. SLi systems add a lot more heat than this ion will.
This would be great. Dual boot my Windows 7 partition and Linux partition at the same time, or for modders with the built in screen could run it's own Windows 7 with a shell.
Too bad the people that need this the most are out of luck.
That'd be perfect for me. My main machine is for work and gaming, and I have a another very old machine that serves as a linux box/local server used for work and messing around on.
What does this mean for licensing, if anything?
yes want
That's actually a pretty nifty idea, but knowing industry the cost will outweigh the benefits of just buying them separately.
There's also the small problem of upgrades: if you've a dual system, what happens when AMD/Intel update their CPU ranges and spec new mobos? You'll have to chuck out your whole hybrid mobo for a new hybrid mobo, which is a bit of a waste seeing as the Atom parts probably won't upgrade much. You may even end up chucking away the same Atom system that is included in your new mobo.
Could work well, could work badly...
I can see in 2 years time the atom part taking no more than 5x5cm space and costing $30 to manufacture. All the top line mobos will come with one, and it will be seen to be just as essential as SLI to any hardcore PC: a low-power slave processor. It will be sweet.
Mine. o.0
Seems kinda senseless when you could just virtualize and put multiple instances on a single board already. Here's the other great feature, any component failure means you have two machines down for the repair. Doesn't seem very efficient.
you missed the point you can shut down the p45/775 & use the Ion/Atom for downloads, web surfing, music or videos but use a fraction of the power. Virtualization does not give you that benefit & infact this will give you a dedicated GPU instead of GPU emulation which is absolute crap.
I'm not flaming you but think about what you are inferring. You are going to save power by shutting down half of the functionality of the board. I would hope that if I shutdown half of my processing power that I'd save more power...but then again that is a technology that multi-processor laptops have been using for years now.
Additionally,
1. I wouldn't use this for gaming/serving. Any "hardcore" gamer would agree.
2. If you setup your virtualization sessions correctly then you shouldn't have a problem.
Actually, you could easily use this for "hardcore" work. Very easily.
Build your P45/775 machine like you normally would. Put a couple gigs of RAM in the Atom/ION side.
Game on your P45/775 machine. Run a light server on the Atom/ION portion.
When you are done gaming, you shutdown the heavy portion, leaving the Atom/ION portion in tact. Keep in mind the extremely low power usage of the Atom. You could cut your CPU load immensely on the 775 side, and you would still be using more power than the Atom.
I basically do a similar thing right now, its just not all on one board. I have my main desktop that I use for heavy work and gaming, a netbook that I use for lightweight work and web browsing, and a couple home servers. For the longest time, I was running my torrents off of my desktop, and that was just a pain. Heat output, power usage, etc. Add the Atom based servers. Now my desktop is actually 100% off when Im not using it. Add in the netbook, and I use the desktop even less.
This setup would allow me to effectively ditch my Atom servers and save space, which is always a huge pro.
Ok, I reiterate, WHY? I mean, its clever, but I don't understand what this gains you over using virtualization, or just having two separate systems.
agreed
Their Beta prototype was probably a couple mobo's with double sided sticky tape holding them together. :)
yay for ingenuity...or not
:-/
You don't have to buy second motherboard, though this mobo will most likely be more expensive than two cheap motherboards.
You don't have to buy a different case for Atom, its build in, though buying separate pre-built Atom nettop in a case might be cheaper than looking for a custom case that can hold a two-sided motherboard... Never heard of those.
Basically its a technology showdown. "Because we can" product.
I'm far from being an expert on virtualization but my dabbling around has resulted in very poor performance while consuming all available resources on a *relatively* high powered machine. If I was running this setup I could switch between a high power machine that consumes a lot of power for gaming or transcoding and then switch to a low powered machine when working from home using, say Citrix. Depending on cost and licensing issues (o/s licensing issues that is) this might make sense to me.
Because it save money and space.
...and I bet you'll be able to heat your house with it too...
Why not? i for example had a server\downloader\gaming machine idea for an hybrid system like that: leave the LAN plugged in, shut down the P45 mobo, and let the Ion one going with your server and stuff. Or maybe an office\gaming machine, since Ion takes less power.
I can see this being levied as a low-power solution for casual web/office editing.
As opposed to running a full pledged cpu [Core2/i7/etc] and gpu that would produce a large amount of heat, use more power, and create more noise [I'm sure fan speeds could be lowered for Atom use], you could could simply boot up on the Atom side.
It saves space. Not worth the price tag, though - at least for me it's not.
The atom side could handle media streaming, firewalls, and RAID functionality to offset some of the load for the gaming side.
But there's really no reason you couldnt have those two things separately, and I'm not sure how the case would work on this one.
They basically tacked an Atom+Ion system into the space left empty by a Micro-ATX board design, then ran the necessary traces to the proper outputs higher up. They then tossed in some clever circuitry to allow the power button and USB hubs to be redirected to the selected system.
Value in this? Possibly. For me? Nah.
Like the Jarry said in the video, leave the Atom side running all the time for downloads and such. The idle consumption was 30 watts. For downloading, you don't need anything near a quad core that consumes 250w. When you want to use the downloaded file the next morning, turn on the P45 side and rock and roll. I can certainly see the value in this product if the price is right.