These days, the word "hybrid" gets tossed around like a rag doll. We've got hybrid cars, hybrid SLI and hybrid image stabilization -- and that's just for starters. But friends, this hybrid is one worth paying attention to. DFI has been working overtime in order to concoct the next great mainboard, and if this thing can really deliver as advertised, we'd say the gurus responsible for it will succeed greatly. The Hybrid P45-ION-T2A2 motherboard can actually house a complete Atom / Ion-based system on one side, while handling a traditional Socket 775 CPU system on the other. In other words, this single motherboard can power -- let's say -- a low-power server system and your next gaming setup. At the same time! We're still waiting on a firm release date and price, but 'til then, hop on past the break for a swell demonstration vid.
Well I can think of one very good reason. Use the Atom side as a media server thats say connected to your TV for DVR, and your desktop for everything else. Now it can be done with one less box.
I'd rather they concentrate on a standard for blade server like desktops. Buy a new video card, slide it in. Buy a new processor, slide it in... want to get rid of part of it? Slide out the old. Use a standard back plane and a standard communication protocol and let the device manufacturers build devices to fit in the slots. Heck, I'd even be happy with something similar to the old PC on a card devices where the CPU, memory controller and memory are on one card and that obtains access to the other devices to do it's processing. Heck you could even use a little Ion or Atom CPU to do the device/communication juggling if you REALLY wanted it.
It's an interesting concept but $399? I can get a mobo&atom CPU package for $100, so you'd pay $300+ for an old 775 mobo only because it has an inbuilt keyboard/USB switch and (Gb) LAN, that isn't economically sensible to me, hate to say it though because the idea isn't bad.
Wait, I take my words back. Two PCs in one case O.O Expensive yet interesting. Thanks for info, will be looking at it when it hits retail. Make sure you post reviews/links to reviews of this thing when they're ready!
very cool...i don't know enough about how the technology works but if they can function so that the system runs the ion machine till it needs more power and then switch over to the socket 775, you can have a lot of savings in power usage..
Not possible as far as I know. Besides, Atom isn't fast enough for everyday work, you'd want to switch to core2something on a constant basis in a month.
It's not entirely impossible. It's just expensive. You'll need a few things:
1) Xen running baremetal on both machines with an internal network between the two. Xen can run in a similar manner to existing flash-based boot solutions (you know, how some motherboards can boot into a limited Linux OS to run a browser. Most Asus mobos have this) 2) All IO traces running through switches, with an interface to both machines, such that a machine can instruct the switch to reroute USB, VGA, ethernet, etc. to the other machine
So there's some custom hardware involved there, but nothing too insane.
So how should the actual switchover be accomplished? Well, Xen supports hot migration of a virtual machine between two hosts. The actual switch takes about 50ms. Essentially, it repeatedly scans memory, sending the differences to the other machine. After each scan, there is less and less data that's changed, since for each scan you need to send only the differences that happened during the previous scan. Eventually, there is relatively little different between the RAM images of the two machines. At that point, you suspend the primary machine, send the remaining differences, and resume the secondary machine.
The machine that isn't in use could be suspended. The actual switchover might take some time, but the user can continue using the machine in the mean time. At most they'd notice their screen flicker.
The problem? You're going to need near-identical hardware between the two machines. The Atom is supposed to be ABI compatible with the Core 2, so that probably isn't a problem. And both platforms can use the same chipsets (945GC), the same ethernet controllers, sound controllers, etc. Might not work so well if you start putting expansion cards in, though...
I'm sure there are a ton of other caveats that I'm not thinking of.
@Adam Zey: "The Atom is supposed to be ABI compatible with the Core 2" -- nope. Dual-core Atom is based on the same core as Core 2, but it has some features turned off--including virtualization hardware. This doesn't mean the Xen approach won't work, but it'll be less efficient.
@myself: "This doesn't mean the Xen approach won't work, but it'll be less efficient." -- or not. Yesterday I read a paper from researchers at VMWare saying that they'd tried to use Intel's virtualization extensions, and found them less efficient than their software virtualization technology.
And, no, it wasn't a marketing smear; it was a real academic paper, published by the ACM, with detailed analysis of why the hardware approach was inefficient, and how Intel would have to change its virtualization extensions to make them worthwhile.
Google "a comparison of software and hardware techniques for x86 virtualization".
I don't get it, so what? You can run a virtual machine using just one processor and it's like you have two...especially if you only need atom-like performance. Get an effecient quad core CPU and dedicate 1 core to the virtual machine...
But what if you want to leave the virtual machine on as a torrent box ? its still gona suck power like theres no tomorow, whereas this wont. Get it now?
He explains it at 8:45 in the video: wife surfing internet while husband sets out to pwn everything... SIMULTANEOUSLY! They can use separate kyb, mouse and monitors and dont even have to be in the same room.
From what I gathered, both systems can be turned off independently of each other and the Atom alone can remain on as a server or torrent box.
BTW, how can I dedicate a CPU core to a VM in XP or 7? Can you post a link? Thx!
This would be great. Dual boot my Windows 7 partition and Linux partition at the same time, or for modders with the built in screen could run it's own Windows 7 with a shell.
Too bad the people that need this the most are out of luck.
That'd be perfect for me. My main machine is for work and gaming, and I have a another very old machine that serves as a linux box/local server used for work and messing around on.
That's actually a pretty nifty idea, but knowing industry the cost will outweigh the benefits of just buying them separately.
There's also the small problem of upgrades: if you've a dual system, what happens when AMD/Intel update their CPU ranges and spec new mobos? You'll have to chuck out your whole hybrid mobo for a new hybrid mobo, which is a bit of a waste seeing as the Atom parts probably won't upgrade much. You may even end up chucking away the same Atom system that is included in your new mobo.
I can see in 2 years time the atom part taking no more than 5x5cm space and costing $30 to manufacture. All the top line mobos will come with one, and it will be seen to be just as essential as SLI to any hardcore PC: a low-power slave processor. It will be sweet.
Seems kinda senseless when you could just virtualize and put multiple instances on a single board already. Here's the other great feature, any component failure means you have two machines down for the repair. Doesn't seem very efficient.
you missed the point you can shut down the p45/775 & use the Ion/Atom for downloads, web surfing, music or videos but use a fraction of the power. Virtualization does not give you that benefit & infact this will give you a dedicated GPU instead of GPU emulation which is absolute crap.
I'm not flaming you but think about what you are inferring. You are going to save power by shutting down half of the functionality of the board. I would hope that if I shutdown half of my processing power that I'd save more power...but then again that is a technology that multi-processor laptops have been using for years now.
Additionally, 1. I wouldn't use this for gaming/serving. Any "hardcore" gamer would agree. 2. If you setup your virtualization sessions correctly then you shouldn't have a problem.
Actually, you could easily use this for "hardcore" work. Very easily.
Build your P45/775 machine like you normally would. Put a couple gigs of RAM in the Atom/ION side.
Game on your P45/775 machine. Run a light server on the Atom/ION portion.
When you are done gaming, you shutdown the heavy portion, leaving the Atom/ION portion in tact. Keep in mind the extremely low power usage of the Atom. You could cut your CPU load immensely on the 775 side, and you would still be using more power than the Atom.
I basically do a similar thing right now, its just not all on one board. I have my main desktop that I use for heavy work and gaming, a netbook that I use for lightweight work and web browsing, and a couple home servers. For the longest time, I was running my torrents off of my desktop, and that was just a pain. Heat output, power usage, etc. Add the Atom based servers. Now my desktop is actually 100% off when Im not using it. Add in the netbook, and I use the desktop even less.
This setup would allow me to effectively ditch my Atom servers and save space, which is always a huge pro.
You don't have to buy second motherboard, though this mobo will most likely be more expensive than two cheap motherboards. You don't have to buy a different case for Atom, its build in, though buying separate pre-built Atom nettop in a case might be cheaper than looking for a custom case that can hold a two-sided motherboard... Never heard of those. Basically its a technology showdown. "Because we can" product.
I'm far from being an expert on virtualization but my dabbling around has resulted in very poor performance while consuming all available resources on a *relatively* high powered machine. If I was running this setup I could switch between a high power machine that consumes a lot of power for gaming or transcoding and then switch to a low powered machine when working from home using, say Citrix. Depending on cost and licensing issues (o/s licensing issues that is) this might make sense to me.
Why not? i for example had a server\downloader\gaming machine idea for an hybrid system like that: leave the LAN plugged in, shut down the P45 mobo, and let the Ion one going with your server and stuff. Or maybe an office\gaming machine, since Ion takes less power.
I can see this being levied as a low-power solution for casual web/office editing. As opposed to running a full pledged cpu [Core2/i7/etc] and gpu that would produce a large amount of heat, use more power, and create more noise [I'm sure fan speeds could be lowered for Atom use], you could could simply boot up on the Atom side.
They basically tacked an Atom+Ion system into the space left empty by a Micro-ATX board design, then ran the necessary traces to the proper outputs higher up. They then tossed in some clever circuitry to allow the power button and USB hubs to be redirected to the selected system.
Like the Jarry said in the video, leave the Atom side running all the time for downloads and such. The idle consumption was 30 watts. For downloading, you don't need anything near a quad core that consumes 250w. When you want to use the downloaded file the next morning, turn on the P45 side and rock and roll. I can certainly see the value in this product if the price is right.
You would probably be better off getting two separate boards, or just sticking to an efficient QC system.
ION boards have been tested with a slightly lower power consumption of around 25w at idle, although the memory and HDD could easily make a difference of 5w.
'Green' QC systems have been found to use around 60w at idle.
Its definitely an interesting concept, but I prefer the flexibility of two boards, it is possible to mount two boards in the same case and share the PSU already.
HA HA! He said Atom system is for the wife, cuz she just checks the internet and music.Powerful system is for the husband... Better not bring that marketing angle to the States. You will have some mad wives!
Unless you can manage them with some kind of communication, like using the Atom for internet, and booting up the second setup for gaming, without the need to have to separated OS instalations, I fail to see a real use case for that.
But of course, I have no problem with the "we do cause we can" approach - that's what drives innovation ;)
i see this as being useful for people like me who are only occasional gamers, but mostly just browse the internet while at home. this way, when doing very little work wise, the atom side could be used. if i decide i'm going to start gaming or a heavier workload, switch to the 775.
seems like it could save a bit of money as far as power costs go.
Check your email between rounds of an FPS... Intriguing. This isn't the first time this has happened though; other modders have put accessory systems inside (promethius cu, VIA Artigo). I can't wait to see other applications if this goes mainstream.
A lot off people seem to have a hard time to understand what this system has over Virtualisation?
What do most people like to do on Pc's?
* Gaming * Office Work * Music
What can you not do, with Visualization:
* Gaming ( at leased, nothing that requires some power behind it ). So forget about running, Linux, with Windows visualization, while playing Crysis on that Virtual Windows.
Now, the solution if you want a Server thats Linux Based, and a Gaming Machine, thats Windows based, is to have two pc's... Then you need a KVM ( and trust me, a DVI/USB KVM = 100+ euro ). And both system need there own power supply, harddisks, etc. Lets also not forget, that you need a hub in between.
From my understanding, in this hybrid system:
You can have a GTX 5000 or whatever, in your PCI-e slot, using the 775 socket CPU to power your windows, whatever system. Yet, at the same time, the Atom system, can be acting as server using maybe Linux.
No visualization, no slow graphics performance. Done gaming? You shut down the 775 system, and you switch to the Atom system.
While most off this can be done ( i do this already ) with two pc's, you need to have a lot off spare system running. Like two power supplies, two cases, KVM, 1Gbits switch, etc... So, in the end, you can combine everything in one system. One case.
My problem is the price... 399$. So, in Euro's we already know its probably 399 euro.
When we look at it from components point of view: Motherbord: 100€ 1Gb switch: 45€ KVM (DVI/USB) : 100€ Atom MB System: Maybe 100€? The Second Case: 30? Euro The Second Power Supply: 40? Euro = 415€
In other words, from a price point of view, there is no real saving what so ever. Unless i missed something?
And i noticed the lack off Slots on the Board. 1 PCI, and 1 16x PCI-e? Lets not even look at that small 1x PCI-e slot, because we all know, that with any medium/high end Graphics card, that slot is going to be useless ( why do they even bother putting that on it ).
In other words, anybody that wants to put a Pci-e Raid Controller on that Atom system, unless you go for a old PCI one, you can forget it ( kind off defeats the point off the Atom as a Server ).
So, nice idea, but to many flaws in my book to let go off my own simulare setup ( but with two cases, kvm, etc ;) ).
Ps: Look at the share folder on 4.58 in the movie. "The Dark Knight". 1.5GB .mkv. Hehe... Why do i get the sneaky feeling, that its not a trailer ;)
I see people hacking them and running the Atom processor to do extra graphic processing. OR have 2 hard drives and live switch between 2 operating systems.
So do we have to pay for two different license of say Windows7 or because they are on the same mother board like multiprocessor motherboards do we just pay for one license?
Cool idea. Makes alot of sense to me. I hate having KVM's and cable mess.
I work as the single IT guy for the corporation I work for. I have helpdesk duties, web maintenance, video editing, software trialing, etc. This is what I really need. I can do the thin client thing on one screen and local, significantly more intensive work on the other.
Buy a dual-core Atom barebones for $120 that takes up less than 1 cubic foot. Stick it on top of your desktop. Buy a decent 775 board for $100. There, I just shaved almost 50% off the cost without reducing any functionality!
For those that "Don't get it" or "Don't know why you wouldn't run 2 boxes" or "Why not virtualize this?" Here's a real world example that might help:
I have 2 PC's under my desk at home. One is a Windows 7 Machine, 4GB of RAM, 4870 Video card, and SSDs. I play my games on it, well WoW :D The other is a Windows Home Server on an Atom 330 with 2GB of RAM and 12TB of storage. It stores backups, movies, music, and servers out to my 3rd machine, a VMC PC on the TV.
Guess which one is on 24/7 and which one is only on when I need it? Yet I have 2 big cases, a hub, all that jazz setup. With this new board I could stuff the WHS and Win7 all into 1 box. Save space and yet still be able to shutdown the power hog and leave the WHS Atom setup on 24/7 again.
Now does it make sense why some people might want a setup like this? Would I pay $399? Not to replace what I have, but if I was building new for someone, sure.
> Well I can think of one very good reason. Use the Atom side as a media server thats say connected to > your TV for DVR, and your desktop for everything else. Now it can be done with one less box.
A backend machine doesn't benefit from this split personality. You can have your media server functions powered by all of the extra excess capacity your desktop has including extra unused cores and an absurd number of SATA ports.
A frontend machine needs to be as small and quiet as possible and shoving another "conventional PC" in the same case as your media center frontend basically makes it worthless for "living room duty".
A dual Atom for combined frontend/backend use makes some sense so that you get a greater degree of isolation between different parts of the system that are used differently. A BSOD triggered by a bad HD-PVR driver won't take your TV viewing offline because that's being done in a different "box".
1, How many people actually buy two systems at the same time? Most people buy one, then another. 2, Intel and AMD are plainning mult-core processors in the next couple of years that mix and match different types of cores. For example, Intel may introduce an 8 core processor with 2 Atom cores, 4 i7 cores, with 2 graphic cores. 3, When the motherboard breaks, you basically have to replace 2 systems, not just one. 4, I'm sure someone will buy it, but I doubt it will be enough to be profitable for the company.
Interesting idea, but I'd have several concerns. 1 - Why does the Atom/Ion use SODIMMs instead of desktop DIMMs? Why, when SODIMMS cost more for the capacity? 2 - The interviewer asked about DDR3. The answerer corrected that to DDR2. So, old tech? 3 - Socket 775 instead of the newer LGA 1156, or even LGA 1366. Again, older tech?
The selling point for these is for gamers that want to save power when not gaming. But a gamer will want a new processor, not a two-year-old processor. And considering all the demos were with Windows XP, I wonder if they even have Vista, much less Windows 7, drivers.
The idea's a decent one. But the "gaming" side needs to support an LGA 1156, 16GB RAM, two PCIe x16 slots, an x4 or two, and a few x1 slots. And it needs more than four shared/two dedicated USB ports (the shared ones will see limited use, since they get disconnected everytime you switch the active side), though including S/PDIF-IN is nice. Oh, and 6x SATA for RAID (offered by Intel P55) + 4+ SATA for the boot device, an optical drive or two, and a couple of eSATA drives.
This is swell and all, but I guess I don't fully see the purpose. I think, for the most part, you are just better off virtualizing your low end system.
What I want to see, and this may be more software than hardware, is the ability to do what Sun workstations have been able to go for a long time. You don't have to reboot the system to update it. It hands off the processes to one of the processors (cores these days) and then technically reboots the system on the other and then merges everything back together. That way you never have to bring your system physically down.
They had the equivalent of this in 1989 with the Amiga 2000 and the 80286 Bridgeboard. You could run both systems simultaneously and have the PC side in a window on the Amiga side. Good times.
A crappy server, A crappy gaming rig... And BONUS (WAIT FOR IT.... WAIT FOR IT...) a TOASTER!!! Just throw bread into the case and get perfect toast in five minutes EVERY TIME!!!
Standard computer + mini-itx board w/ duct tape. Seriously... am I missing something here? My Mid-Tower ATX has room to screw an extra mini-itx board in. Assuming you're using it for torrenting and serving files and all that, you can get the single core atom mobo for what, $65? Run a pico PSU in there somewhere and stick in a cheap bit and you're probably not breaking $120 by too much.
Have the thing run whatever you want and remote into it when you need to change stuff. Even better, samba everything up and get apps that have web-front ends and pretty much forget about the thing.
It would be a fun little project to shove a mini-itx board into another computer's case, but seriously... these systems are like the size of a Wii console. Are we dying for space that much?
"I love my little computing companion but I often find myself missing a full sized keyboard. I have been looking at several of these portable and flexible keyboards, but I can't seem to make up my mind about which I should buy. I don't want the keyboard to be overly expensive, but I want it to be good quality. Also, how difficult is it to type on these keyboards? Thanks!"
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posted Sep 18th 2009 4:07PM
Why?
Why NOT.
+1
Seems like a "because we can" product.
Well I can think of one very good reason. Use the Atom side as a media server thats say connected to your TV for DVR, and your desktop for everything else. Now it can be done with one less box.
I'd rather they concentrate on a standard for blade server like desktops. Buy a new video card, slide it in. Buy a new processor, slide it in... want to get rid of part of it? Slide out the old. Use a standard back plane and a standard communication protocol and let the device manufacturers build devices to fit in the slots. Heck, I'd even be happy with something similar to the old PC on a card devices where the CPU, memory controller and memory are on one card and that obtains access to the other devices to do it's processing. Heck you could even use a little Ion or Atom CPU to do the device/communication juggling if you REALLY wanted it.
It's an interesting concept but $399? I can get a mobo&atom CPU package for $100, so you'd pay $300+ for an old 775 mobo only because it has an inbuilt keyboard/USB switch and (Gb) LAN, that isn't economically sensible to me, hate to say it though because the idea isn't bad.
Wait, I take my words back.
Two PCs in one case O.O
Expensive yet interesting.
Thanks for info, will be looking at it when it hits retail.
Make sure you post reviews/links to reviews of this thing when they're ready!
I'd rather not leave my gaming rig on 24/7 like I would a server....
'Cause you could potentially run a hackintosh with this thing.
Why yes!
oooooo, do want
DeskNet...top
Want so bad.
very cool...i don't know enough about how the technology works but if they can function so that the system runs the ion machine till it needs more power and then switch over to the socket 775, you can have a lot of savings in power usage..
Not possible as far as I know.
Besides, Atom isn't fast enough for everyday work, you'd want to switch to core2something on a constant basis in a month.
@Shinigami
What kind of everyday work are you doing?..
@EGOvoruhk
FOREX.
Basically, I make programs that make huge loads of money within short periods of time xD
It's not entirely impossible. It's just expensive. You'll need a few things:
1) Xen running baremetal on both machines with an internal network between the two. Xen can run in a similar manner to existing flash-based boot solutions (you know, how some motherboards can boot into a limited Linux OS to run a browser. Most Asus mobos have this)
2) All IO traces running through switches, with an interface to both machines, such that a machine can instruct the switch to reroute USB, VGA, ethernet, etc. to the other machine
So there's some custom hardware involved there, but nothing too insane.
So how should the actual switchover be accomplished? Well, Xen supports hot migration of a virtual machine between two hosts. The actual switch takes about 50ms. Essentially, it repeatedly scans memory, sending the differences to the other machine. After each scan, there is less and less data that's changed, since for each scan you need to send only the differences that happened during the previous scan. Eventually, there is relatively little different between the RAM images of the two machines. At that point, you suspend the primary machine, send the remaining differences, and resume the secondary machine.
The machine that isn't in use could be suspended. The actual switchover might take some time, but the user can continue using the machine in the mean time. At most they'd notice their screen flicker.
The problem? You're going to need near-identical hardware between the two machines. The Atom is supposed to be ABI compatible with the Core 2, so that probably isn't a problem. And both platforms can use the same chipsets (945GC), the same ethernet controllers, sound controllers, etc. Might not work so well if you start putting expansion cards in, though...
I'm sure there are a ton of other caveats that I'm not thinking of.
@Adam Zey: "The Atom is supposed to be ABI compatible with the Core 2" -- nope. Dual-core Atom is based on the same core as Core 2, but it has some features turned off--including virtualization hardware. This doesn't mean the Xen approach won't work, but it'll be less efficient.
@myself: "This doesn't mean the Xen approach won't work, but it'll be less efficient." -- or not. Yesterday I read a paper from researchers at VMWare saying that they'd tried to use Intel's virtualization extensions, and found them less efficient than their software virtualization technology.
And, no, it wasn't a marketing smear; it was a real academic paper, published by the ACM, with detailed analysis of why the hardware approach was inefficient, and how Intel would have to change its virtualization extensions to make them worthwhile.
Google "a comparison of software and hardware techniques for x86 virtualization".
I don't get it, so what? You can run a virtual machine using just one processor and it's like you have two...especially if you only need atom-like performance. Get an effecient quad core CPU and dedicate 1 core to the virtual machine...
But what if you want to leave the virtual machine on as a torrent box ? its still gona suck power like theres no tomorow, whereas this wont. Get it now?
This thing is the stuff of wet dreams.
@Kevin M:
He explains it at 8:45 in the video: wife surfing internet while husband sets out to pwn everything... SIMULTANEOUSLY! They can use separate kyb, mouse and monitors and dont even have to be in the same room.
From what I gathered, both systems can be turned off independently of each other and the Atom alone can remain on as a server or torrent box.
BTW, how can I dedicate a CPU core to a VM in XP or 7? Can you post a link? Thx!
imagine the heat in that thing.
roughly the same as a normal pc? atom is only like 4w of heat
Atom procs run cool enough that if you get one on a mITX mobo, the only fan is for the chipset.
It's only 30 watts. Most systems have 1 video card which is usually over 100 watts. SLi systems add a lot more heat than this ion will.
This would be great. Dual boot my Windows 7 partition and Linux partition at the same time, or for modders with the built in screen could run it's own Windows 7 with a shell.
Too bad the people that need this the most are out of luck.
That'd be perfect for me. My main machine is for work and gaming, and I have a another very old machine that serves as a linux box/local server used for work and messing around on.
What does this mean for licensing, if anything?
yes want
That's actually a pretty nifty idea, but knowing industry the cost will outweigh the benefits of just buying them separately.
There's also the small problem of upgrades: if you've a dual system, what happens when AMD/Intel update their CPU ranges and spec new mobos? You'll have to chuck out your whole hybrid mobo for a new hybrid mobo, which is a bit of a waste seeing as the Atom parts probably won't upgrade much. You may even end up chucking away the same Atom system that is included in your new mobo.
Could work well, could work badly...
I can see in 2 years time the atom part taking no more than 5x5cm space and costing $30 to manufacture. All the top line mobos will come with one, and it will be seen to be just as essential as SLI to any hardcore PC: a low-power slave processor. It will be sweet.
Mine. o.0
Seems kinda senseless when you could just virtualize and put multiple instances on a single board already. Here's the other great feature, any component failure means you have two machines down for the repair. Doesn't seem very efficient.
you missed the point you can shut down the p45/775 & use the Ion/Atom for downloads, web surfing, music or videos but use a fraction of the power. Virtualization does not give you that benefit & infact this will give you a dedicated GPU instead of GPU emulation which is absolute crap.
I'm not flaming you but think about what you are inferring. You are going to save power by shutting down half of the functionality of the board. I would hope that if I shutdown half of my processing power that I'd save more power...but then again that is a technology that multi-processor laptops have been using for years now.
Additionally,
1. I wouldn't use this for gaming/serving. Any "hardcore" gamer would agree.
2. If you setup your virtualization sessions correctly then you shouldn't have a problem.
Actually, you could easily use this for "hardcore" work. Very easily.
Build your P45/775 machine like you normally would. Put a couple gigs of RAM in the Atom/ION side.
Game on your P45/775 machine. Run a light server on the Atom/ION portion.
When you are done gaming, you shutdown the heavy portion, leaving the Atom/ION portion in tact. Keep in mind the extremely low power usage of the Atom. You could cut your CPU load immensely on the 775 side, and you would still be using more power than the Atom.
I basically do a similar thing right now, its just not all on one board. I have my main desktop that I use for heavy work and gaming, a netbook that I use for lightweight work and web browsing, and a couple home servers. For the longest time, I was running my torrents off of my desktop, and that was just a pain. Heat output, power usage, etc. Add the Atom based servers. Now my desktop is actually 100% off when Im not using it. Add in the netbook, and I use the desktop even less.
This setup would allow me to effectively ditch my Atom servers and save space, which is always a huge pro.
Ok, I reiterate, WHY? I mean, its clever, but I don't understand what this gains you over using virtualization, or just having two separate systems.
agreed
Their Beta prototype was probably a couple mobo's with double sided sticky tape holding them together. :)
yay for ingenuity...or not
:-/
You don't have to buy second motherboard, though this mobo will most likely be more expensive than two cheap motherboards.
You don't have to buy a different case for Atom, its build in, though buying separate pre-built Atom nettop in a case might be cheaper than looking for a custom case that can hold a two-sided motherboard... Never heard of those.
Basically its a technology showdown. "Because we can" product.
I'm far from being an expert on virtualization but my dabbling around has resulted in very poor performance while consuming all available resources on a *relatively* high powered machine. If I was running this setup I could switch between a high power machine that consumes a lot of power for gaming or transcoding and then switch to a low powered machine when working from home using, say Citrix. Depending on cost and licensing issues (o/s licensing issues that is) this might make sense to me.
Because it save money and space.
...and I bet you'll be able to heat your house with it too...
Why not? i for example had a server\downloader\gaming machine idea for an hybrid system like that: leave the LAN plugged in, shut down the P45 mobo, and let the Ion one going with your server and stuff. Or maybe an office\gaming machine, since Ion takes less power.
I can see this being levied as a low-power solution for casual web/office editing.
As opposed to running a full pledged cpu [Core2/i7/etc] and gpu that would produce a large amount of heat, use more power, and create more noise [I'm sure fan speeds could be lowered for Atom use], you could could simply boot up on the Atom side.
It saves space. Not worth the price tag, though - at least for me it's not.
The atom side could handle media streaming, firewalls, and RAID functionality to offset some of the load for the gaming side.
But there's really no reason you couldnt have those two things separately, and I'm not sure how the case would work on this one.
They basically tacked an Atom+Ion system into the space left empty by a Micro-ATX board design, then ran the necessary traces to the proper outputs higher up. They then tossed in some clever circuitry to allow the power button and USB hubs to be redirected to the selected system.
Value in this? Possibly. For me? Nah.
Like the Jarry said in the video, leave the Atom side running all the time for downloads and such. The idle consumption was 30 watts. For downloading, you don't need anything near a quad core that consumes 250w. When you want to use the downloaded file the next morning, turn on the P45 side and rock and roll. I can certainly see the value in this product if the price is right.
You would probably be better off getting two separate boards, or just sticking to an efficient QC system.
ION boards have been tested with a slightly lower power consumption of around 25w at idle, although the memory and HDD could easily make a difference of 5w.
'Green' QC systems have been found to use around 60w at idle.
Its definitely an interesting concept, but I prefer the flexibility of two boards, it is possible to mount two boards in the same case and share the PSU already.
Space saver?
Wow that video was hard to watch
That's because it was probably being streamed using the *NEW* Hybrid DFI motherboard.
right now i'm using a atom/ion for downloading stuff 24/7. cut my electric bill big time as to when i was using a core i7 system to download.
downloads, file server, media streaming, device syncing, web server, nas, software raid, backup.
i wonder if there is anything networking the two or a kvm solution built it.
That is just wierd and confusing. The only thing I could picture this being useful for is running a server.
Play phone = platform. Got it. ;-)
HA HA! He said Atom system is for the wife, cuz she just checks the internet and music.Powerful system is for the husband... Better not bring that marketing angle to the States. You will have some mad wives!
playphone = Platform
lol. Very smart guy who indeed design a great board. very heavy accent indeed.
@ Justin:
I laughed out hard when he said that; straight and to the point.
Political what??
@ Simon:
Funny, but a trip there will quickly reverse the heavy accent situation.
Imagine the possibilities. You could create a completely separate system for your porn collection.
So this is like Double Penetration for a motherboard?
Was it just me or was that video near-impossible to understand?
See my post above: Play phone = platform. Once I figured that out, it was way easier to understand. :-)
Unless you can manage them with some kind of communication, like using the Atom for internet, and booting up the second setup for gaming, without the need to have to separated OS instalations, I fail to see a real use case for that.
But of course, I have no problem with the "we do cause we can" approach - that's what drives innovation ;)
i see this as being useful for people like me who are only occasional gamers, but mostly just browse the internet while at home.
this way, when doing very little work wise, the atom side could be used.
if i decide i'm going to start gaming or a heavier workload, switch to the 775.
seems like it could save a bit of money as far as power costs go.
in before xzibit
Check your email between rounds of an FPS... Intriguing. This isn't the first time this has happened though; other modders have put accessory systems inside (promethius cu, VIA Artigo). I can't wait to see other applications if this goes mainstream.
A lot off people seem to have a hard time to understand what this system has over Virtualisation?
What do most people like to do on Pc's?
* Gaming
* Office Work
* Music
What can you not do, with Visualization:
* Gaming ( at leased, nothing that requires some power behind it ). So forget about running, Linux, with Windows visualization, while playing Crysis on that Virtual Windows.
Now, the solution if you want a Server thats Linux Based, and a Gaming Machine, thats Windows based, is to have two pc's... Then you need a KVM ( and trust me, a DVI/USB KVM = 100+ euro ). And both system need there own power supply, harddisks, etc. Lets also not forget, that you need a hub in between.
From my understanding, in this hybrid system:
You can have a GTX 5000 or whatever, in your PCI-e slot, using the 775 socket CPU to power your windows, whatever system. Yet, at the same time, the Atom system, can be acting as server using maybe Linux.
No visualization, no slow graphics performance. Done gaming? You shut down the 775 system, and you switch to the Atom system.
While most off this can be done ( i do this already ) with two pc's, you need to have a lot off spare system running. Like two power supplies, two cases, KVM, 1Gbits switch, etc... So, in the end, you can combine everything in one system. One case.
My problem is the price... 399$. So, in Euro's we already know its probably 399 euro.
When we look at it from components point of view:
Motherbord: 100€
1Gb switch: 45€
KVM (DVI/USB) : 100€
Atom MB System: Maybe 100€?
The Second Case: 30? Euro
The Second Power Supply: 40? Euro
= 415€
In other words, from a price point of view, there is no real saving what so ever. Unless i missed something?
And i noticed the lack off Slots on the Board. 1 PCI, and 1 16x PCI-e? Lets not even look at that small 1x PCI-e slot, because we all know, that with any medium/high end Graphics card, that slot is going to be useless ( why do they even bother putting that on it ).
In other words, anybody that wants to put a Pci-e Raid Controller on that Atom system, unless you go for a old PCI one, you can forget it ( kind off defeats the point off the Atom as a Server ).
So, nice idea, but to many flaws in my book to let go off my own simulare setup ( but with two cases, kvm, etc ;) ).
Ps: Look at the share folder on 4.58 in the movie. "The Dark Knight". 1.5GB .mkv. Hehe... Why do i get the sneaky feeling, that its not a trailer ;)
I'm replying to this only because I'm sure you want some sort of recognition for that laborious post.
Thats a genius idea to be honest, i'd buy one.
It kept my interest until he mentioned $399...
Finally, an answer for the question that nobody asked.
Interesting idea, it will be cool to see where this ends up going
I see people hacking them and running the Atom processor to do extra graphic processing. OR have 2 hard drives and live switch between 2 operating systems.
So do we have to pay for two different license of say Windows7 or because they are on the same mother board like multiprocessor motherboards do we just pay for one license?
Cool idea. Makes alot of sense to me. I hate having KVM's and cable mess.
ahhh imagine if one half fails in some way... It's like taking a risk with an all-in-one PC.
anyone else notice The.Dark.Knight.mkv?? lol
I work as the single IT guy for the corporation I work for. I have helpdesk duties, web maintenance, video editing, software trialing, etc. This is what I really need. I can do the thin client thing on one screen and local, significantly more intensive work on the other.
Bloody brilliant. Sign me up.
I'll take two.
sucks that its LGA 775, if they made it with the 1366 or 1155 it would be much more practical.
Buy a dual-core Atom barebones for $120 that takes up less than 1 cubic foot. Stick it on top of your desktop. Buy a decent 775 board for $100. There, I just shaved almost 50% off the cost without reducing any functionality!
For those that "Don't get it" or "Don't know why you wouldn't run 2 boxes" or "Why not virtualize this?" Here's a real world example that might help:
I have 2 PC's under my desk at home.
One is a Windows 7 Machine, 4GB of RAM, 4870 Video card, and SSDs. I play my games on it, well WoW :D
The other is a Windows Home Server on an Atom 330 with 2GB of RAM and 12TB of storage. It stores backups, movies, music, and servers out to my 3rd machine, a VMC PC on the TV.
Guess which one is on 24/7 and which one is only on when I need it? Yet I have 2 big cases, a hub, all that jazz setup. With this new board I could stuff the WHS and Win7 all into 1 box. Save space and yet still be able to shutdown the power hog and leave the WHS Atom setup on 24/7 again.
Now does it make sense why some people might want a setup like this? Would I pay $399? Not to replace what I have, but if I was building new for someone, sure.
hey how does the 330 handle streaming 108p??? i havent been able to find any reliable reviews.. Thanks!!!
> Well I can think of one very good reason. Use the Atom side as a media server thats say connected to
> your TV for DVR, and your desktop for everything else. Now it can be done with one less box.
A backend machine doesn't benefit from this split personality. You can have your media
server functions powered by all of the extra excess capacity your desktop has including
extra unused cores and an absurd number of SATA ports.
A frontend machine needs to be as small and quiet as possible and shoving another
"conventional PC" in the same case as your media center frontend basically makes
it worthless for "living room duty".
A dual Atom for combined frontend/backend use makes some sense so that you get
a greater degree of isolation between different parts of the system that are used
differently. A BSOD triggered by a bad HD-PVR driver won't take your TV viewing
offline because that's being done in a different "box".
This is such a short-sighted/short term product.
1, How many people actually buy two systems at the same time? Most people buy one, then another.
2, Intel and AMD are plainning mult-core processors in the next couple of years that mix and match different types of cores. For example, Intel may introduce an 8 core processor with 2 Atom cores, 4 i7 cores, with 2 graphic cores.
3, When the motherboard breaks, you basically have to replace 2 systems, not just one.
4, I'm sure someone will buy it, but I doubt it will be enough to be profitable for the company.
I just don't get it.
possible with Mac...?
This is nothing new.. HP's ILO SOC chip has been active for some time.
ILO is of course not a full fledged atom nettop but ILO is a kick ass app!
Interesting idea, but I'd have several concerns.
1 - Why does the Atom/Ion use SODIMMs instead of desktop DIMMs? Why, when SODIMMS cost more for the capacity?
2 - The interviewer asked about DDR3. The answerer corrected that to DDR2. So, old tech?
3 - Socket 775 instead of the newer LGA 1156, or even LGA 1366. Again, older tech?
The selling point for these is for gamers that want to save power when not gaming. But a gamer will want a new processor, not a two-year-old processor. And considering all the demos were with Windows XP, I wonder if they even have Vista, much less Windows 7, drivers.
The idea's a decent one. But the "gaming" side needs to support an LGA 1156, 16GB RAM, two PCIe x16 slots, an x4 or two, and a few x1 slots. And it needs more than four shared/two dedicated USB ports (the shared ones will see limited use, since they get disconnected everytime you switch the active side), though including S/PDIF-IN is nice. Oh, and 6x SATA for RAID (offered by Intel P55) + 4+ SATA for the boot device, an optical drive or two, and a couple of eSATA drives.
I can only think of AMD processors needing help with offloading certain tasks so it could keep up with Intel processors.
I interestin ho h doesn pronounc th las lette of ever wor
i mak i reall har t understan wha h i talkin abou
It's the I can't understand wtf the guy is saying motherboard >_
This is swell and all, but I guess I don't fully see the purpose. I think, for the most part, you are just better off virtualizing your low end system.
What I want to see, and this may be more software than hardware, is the ability to do what Sun workstations have been able to go for a long time. You don't have to reboot the system to update it. It hands off the processes to one of the processors (cores these days) and then technically reboots the system on the other and then merges everything back together. That way you never have to bring your system physically down.
very nice, definitely interested in this
They have a pirated version of Batman at 5:06 lolz
Commodore did it!
They had the equivalent of this in 1989 with the Amiga 2000 and the 80286 Bridgeboard. You could run both systems simultaneously and have the PC side in a window on the Amiga side. Good times.
I was thinking more of the Amstrad MegaPC which had a PC and a Megaadrive in the same box.
Wow!!!
3 birds with one stone!!!
A crappy server, A crappy gaming rig... And BONUS (WAIT FOR IT.... WAIT FOR IT...) a TOASTER!!! Just throw bread into the case and get perfect toast in five minutes EVERY TIME!!!
GENIUS!!!
Standard computer + mini-itx board w/ duct tape. Seriously... am I missing something here? My Mid-Tower ATX has room to screw an extra mini-itx board in. Assuming you're using it for torrenting and serving files and all that, you can get the single core atom mobo for what, $65? Run a pico PSU in there somewhere and stick in a cheap bit and you're probably not breaking $120 by too much.
Have the thing run whatever you want and remote into it when you need to change stuff. Even better, samba everything up and get apps that have web-front ends and pretty much forget about the thing.
It would be a fun little project to shove a mini-itx board into another computer's case, but seriously... these systems are like the size of a Wii console. Are we dying for space that much?