Eyes-on with Intel's Pine Trail CPU/GPU hybrid and new Gulftown gaming chip (update)
By Nilay Patel 
posted Sep 22nd 2009 2:06PM
posted Sep 22nd 2009 2:06PM
Update: So the first Intel rep we spoke to was a little confused -- Pine Trail only supports 480p playback, although it can apparently do 720p if pushed. Native HD isn't on Intel's roadmap until the next generation of these chips, so If you want HD right now, Intel's pointing manufacturers to the Broadcom Crystal HD video accelerator, which usually ends up costing about $30 extra at retail. So to recap: Intel's integrating graphics into its CPU dies, but in order to play back HD content, you still need a separate video processor to handle the decoding. How very efficient.
Holy crap, 12 logical cores? *mind blown*
Yeah i my brain has melted upon seeing this
overclocked to 6ghz stable O.O
Too bad most games can't get a considerable speed boost from 3-rd or 4-th...
@Shinigami: Correction: Most current games. ;)
PS3's Cell CPU has 8 logical cores.. and costs $299
You would think someone would clean up the cable clutter if your on display.
I hear when the Gulftown chip is available in early 2010, it will only be available in the "Extreme Edition" line-up and thus start at around $999 at least, just like the i7-965, i7-975, etc.
I am hoping that not long afterwards, we will get mainstream Gulfttown processors around $300 like the i7-920.
Why?
You can have 8 logical processors, which is overkill for most applications. You can also get 2 quad-core CPUs on a single mother board and have 8-16 logical processors (not sure there is double-core X58/P55 motherboard) for a smaller price than $999 (but pretty close).
6ghz is nice as well but you won't need more than 4 in everyday use. I'd rather see my electricity bill getting smaller.
There are plenty of applications that take advantage of multiple cores, from video editing to image manipulation, they all scale quite well to multiple cores.
and with the release of tools from apple and intel to allow for easier programming across multiple cores, many more programs will be modified to use multiple cores.
I'd like to see more people embrace the difference between "I have no use for." and "There is no use for."
As in: "I have no use for 2 video cards, however I understand that some people do."
I know that the Millennials are hopelessly self-involved, but scarcity of this attitude is discouraging.
A socket 1366 that has the ability to scale up to 3.0Ghz+ automatically would be a nice replacement for the i7 920 that can only jump up 133Mhz over stock clock automactically. the i5 and i7 8xx series have some nice on demand overclocking that is sadly missed from the i7 9xx series in 1366 socket. I know I can overclock my 920 myself quite easily, but having the system do it automatically 'on demand' is a preferable method.
Wow, I cannot wait to see the solitaire cards cascade on that badboy!
you dont have to! it'll cascade on your windows 95 machine.
@va jj: Miss the point much?
Ya...doesn't make much sense as my Dell Mini 9 w/ OS X or even Windows 7 can playback 480p.
yeah, but can it run Crysis?
yeah, can that joke just die already?
need a larger MB to support more RAM! 12GB on common i7 board is a little boring... not that I really need that much.
12GB of DDR4-3000?
lol.
I just want to know what the hell game is going to give this thing a real test? This CPU will be solid for the next 6 years, or 6 months at least right?
You did see the post of Paul Otellinni holding the 22nm wafer?!?! So, yeah, six months is probably more accurate. Still the best six months of your gaming life!
Why would they demo at 480 if it's capable of 1080? Are they short on cash for the hardware?
They never said how well it'd run 1080p.
Because it doesn't support anything but 480p officially? 480p isn't bad either - its DVD rip. But if you, like me, watch anime, 720p is a must ^_^
Why would *anyone* "demo" 480p?
Isn't 480p just assumed if you're running anything newer than a Pentium Pro?
@shinigami
"Because it doesn't support anything but 480p officially? 480p isn't bad either - its DVD rip. But if you, like me, watch anime, 720p is a must ^_^"
yes becuase someone taking a 480p source and upscaling it to 1080p and then downsampling it to 720p is so worth it.
you keep stealing and believing that.........
Hey - I have that micro-ITX case. It's lovely - great HTPC form factor.
I have this one (very similar) and I agree, great cases!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108094&cm_re=inwin-_-11-108-094-_-Product
Could someone please explain the benefits of having a CPU/GPU hybrid over a seperate CPU and GPU?
think of it like a sandwich. you can have some peanut butter, some balogna, and some bread all separatly, but wouldn't it be better all mashed together?
There are 3 reasons to integrate chips:
-power consumption. 1 chip draws less power then 2. Hand in hand with is with 1 chip you get less heat.
-cost. Fabbing 1 chip is less then 2 especially when you consider things like sockets and mobo space.
-size. When you have 1 chip you can have a smaller, simpler motherboards so devices can be smaller
To build off what theluketaylor said: size also means faster. There's less latency transferring data between the CPU and GPU.
ah, I see.
Thanks for the explanation
it has something to do with the flexibity of the chip usage. they are merging once again because separate graphics cards, although initially offering amazing graphics boosts over the last decade have now started to get in the way because they are only good for one type of thing. intergrating the 2 brings in a lot more flexibility for the programmers to do everything they need.
or something like that???
When does PINE TRAIL hit the shelves?
On what machines?
What machines will pair it with the Nvidia ION chip?
(I assume ION will be necessary for HD playback.)
I'm hoping for a PINE TRAIL/ION netbook with a 12" screen and Windows 7 for under $500.
I dont think they will pair pinetrail with Ion...whats the point, two GPU's on one board?
pine trail replaces ION. It makes the gma950, US15W or ION chipsets unnecessary as it integrates their features onto the cpu die itself. Since this is Intel's first x86 system on chip and is considerably more complex then existing SoCs it isn't surprising this first version isn't as high performance as a discrete chipset
@theluketaylor intel's ingrated graphics for atom chipsets weren't high performance even before being integrated.
wow. The integrated graphics can't even handle HD. Then they recommend getting a "video accelerator" if you want HD. Yeah Intel, I think I'm going with Nvidia ION, your graphics suck.
This is first gen tech. It has to start somewhere. My first DVD drive had to have an accelerator card to decode the video smoothly.
It'll get there don't worry.
Or you could be just another Intel hater. If so then troll on...
Exactly.
How long before Intel figures out how to make a GPU that doesn't suck?
I'm not sure how anyone can be excited about Larabee after living with a GMA950-based notebook for any length of time.
I'd love to see nvidia go all the way with an x86 CPU/chipset combo designed specifially for gaming and/or HTPC.
Add some custom hardware and throw it in an nvidia-branded case; they'd sell like hotcakes.
hey Phil, I like Intel. if you haven't noticed, even Nvidia Ion uses an Intel Atom for a processor. It's just their integrated graphics suck. But, they of course don't want you to use Nvidia Ion because then you won't be locked into their chipset.
Bottom line: for netbooks, Ion plus an Intel Atom is king.
@phil,
it's not exactly intels first gpu.
i've been listening to people saying intel will wipe nvidia/ati "in next 2 years" for about 10 years now. their gpu folk suck, simple as that. they got a bandwith problem or what?
they NEVER deliver to theoretical promises they make years ahead of their next product.
480p? what the f***. even phones do that - AND MORE.
I don't hate intel as such. I just think that their gpu folk are bullshitters, which they are untill they make a product thats even close to what competitors have had five years ago. I'm rolling with dualcore intel laptop, but I wouldn't ever have chosen this rig if it had intel graphics(I like games and 3d design, too bad my choice of tools at the moment doesn't support cuda).
Games barely use two cores right now. What good is six cores going to be for gaming?
Some guy in the AMD post yesterday was saying he wanted "6 cores can be used for more than just gaming"
"What good is six cores going to be for gaming?"
Right now?
None at all.
However, if everyone thought like you two, we'd still be stuck with single core CPU's.
Luckily, they don't.
when will AMD come up with CPU/GPU hybrid? seriously, what are you buying ATI for?
@(Unverified) I think they can produce anythng they want right now ,but there is like secrete accord between Intel and Nvideo AMD guys not to step on each other turf
LOL. Intel rides the GPU failtrain yet again. Woooo. 720p "if pushed." I am blown away by that level of awesomeness. Their ability to predict the future of video is amazing!
Remind me why anyobody listens to these clowns when it comes to video or GPUs? Intel IGP solutions BLOW for video. They clip blacks and whites. The are locked down to 0-255 range (IE: they do not grok 16-235 content) they ignore DXVA calls around color space conversion. They are, in a nutshell, half assed shit implementations.
And I'm just talking video playback. Don't even try to game on them.