Apple Genius says 30 percent iPhone call drop rate is average in New York
By Donald Melanson 
posted Sep 30th 2009 12:29PM
posted Sep 30th 2009 12:29PM
To be sure, a certain number of dropped calls are to be expected when you're dealing with the wonders of cellular communication, but some phones do seem to fare worse then others when paired with certain carriers in particularly congested regions. Apparently fed up with such problems in New York, Gizmodo reader Manoj decided to stop by an Apple Store to see if something might be wrong with his iPhone -- this, after apparently being assured by AT&T that everything was all right on its end. After a few tests, the Apple Genius determined that Manoj's phone was dropping 22 percent of its calls, which turns out to actually be "excellent" compared to most iPhone users in the New York area, where a dropped call rate of 30 percent is said to be average -- according to the dude at the store, anyhow. The Genius further went on to confirm that the phone was indeed "fully functional," and that the problem is "consistent with the service provided by AT&T." So, nothing to worry about, folks -- everything is "normal."
[Thanks, Canis]
[Thanks, Canis]
Apple needs to switch to Verizon. Badly.
When people keep buying iPhones regardless- why should they?
So Mike can get an iPhone is why.
It's not the network, it's the iPhone. If it were the network then ALL AT&T would drop 30% of calls.
Why not have it on both carriers. Gives people choice and distributes the load better.
Not ALL AT&T, just locally in New York.
@xeno
if thats the case then why does the iphone work properly on non american carriers?
I also definitely think it has more to do with WHERE you are. I've been using an iPhone for over a year in SF and now in Sacramento, and have maybe had 3 or 4 dropped calls during that period. But neither city is anywhere as close to congested as NY. No one else I know with an iPhone around here seems to drop alot of calls either, but many of my friends in LA seem to drop them on the reg. Makes me think it has much more to do with ATT in big cities than either the iPhone itself, or ATT at large. I do agree that they should really update their network though; ~30% dropped calls for any paying customer is nonsense.
@ cocoviper
"When people keep buying iPhones regardless- why should they?"
the same answer can be used when asking why AT&T doesn't "fix" their network, i'm sure.
and when Verizon decides to support the iphone's technology that might be possible. but Apple ain't gonna change what they do to fit anyone else, be it the phone or computers or software, just cause those anyone's want it.
and right now Verizon technologically can't support the phone.
as for the folks saying that if it was ATT all phones would have suck service. not true. the level of service is dependent on tower coverage. in some areas they have dozens so the service is awesome. in others, like New York, they have quite a few but not a lot, so the service is decent but not great and spotty in some places. In areas like the midwest, they have almost none and decent service is about 20-30% of the time. which is why companies like Sprint do well in their areas
@iroq d. mullet
Agreed.
This repeated blog tendency to say "Look! Att is outrageously bad, so let's all keep paying them!" is ridiculous.
Money talks guys.
As someone who is living in NYC, this is about right. What's worse than the dropped calls is the impossible-to-connect to 3G network. There is a 1/3 chance I can connect to the internet in manhattan, downtown or east village especially. I am so tired of this crap I ordered a Pre over the weekend and will be dropping the iPhone shortly. I'm sure the iPhone is great elsewhere, but it basically an iTouch with some calling features on AT&T in NYC.
Here's a pic of AT&T's "more bars" and what 3G looks like in downtown NYC:
http://twitpic.com/jjni8
Why would anyone use Verizon when Sprint costs so much less? $70/month on Sprint costs $165/month on Verizon for ONE PHONE. Verizon only has "the network" because their ad says so, and it's been saying it so long, you people somehow agree with it for no reason at all.
In San Diego, I often have experience dropped call with iPhone AT&T.
Before read this article, I guess complex iPhone OS problem.
iPhone really need competitor networks for customer.
Looking at the number of "better" phones being released now,
thru the 1st of the year.........
I can't seriously believe the iphone will continue to be
a top shelf product.
I've never had a call dropped on Rogers in Canada with my iPhone 3GS. Rogers also had MMS and tethering activated at the launch and there's not been problems. AT&T clearly sucks as other international networks are more like Rogers. (Not to say that Rogers is a champ though - we're locked into 3 year contracts, for example, in Canada).
I guess that's the price of greatness.
"I'd like to just pay 70% of my bill this month AT&T".... yeah I can see that going over real smooth on the phone.
Why is it ok if they deliver a fraction of the service but still expect the entire price for the advertised and undelivered portion?
VERIZON! PLEASE make a phone that is a "case" for the iPod touch. Even if the integration between the two halves is not perfect, I'd still buy it.
It really can be the phone. I upgraded from a original Blackjack to an Epix and I haven't dropped a call since in my apartment. Generally I think AT&T's coverage is great. Many times my friends with Verizon have no signal, and I have 2-3 bars. And it's very rare I completely lose a signal.
I think AT&T needs to switch to Verizon! :D
iPhone is great phone but doesn't do the basic stuff like make calls. it barely got MMS
Not all phones in NY on AT&T have 30% dropped call rate. It certainly has to do with i-phone too along with AT&T.
AT&T alone is not the culprit, i-phone too is, but many people overlook blindly and blame just AT&T.
@Giroro - Wrong, my phone drops around 30% too and I live in the Bay Area. The iPhone is for #$%^ as a phone, and AT&T's network is just as bad.
@hary536
The reports of these problems in EU and other non-AT&T networks are a lot less frequent. This is an AT&T problem a majority of the time.
This is exactly why giving $100+/mo to ATT makes no sense...I have had Pre with Sprint since launch day and have never dropped a call! I do not understand how people put up with such atrocious ATT service.
The iPhone is the BEST PHONE I've ever had and quite frankly IMO it's the best phone out there right now.
For that reason alone I'll put up with AT&T and their shitty 3G service in NYC. Thankfully though I live in NC where it's flawless (at least in my area).
So to all the HATERS...KEEP HATING! Apple and the iPhone run shit and there's nothing you can do to stop it!
I made ~12 calls on my E71 (not x) on AT&T in Orange County, CA yesterday. 4 didn't go through, 6 of them dropped. I'm above the curve!
While everyone would tell you that I absolutely love my iPhone, I still get dropped calls at a rate that is far greater than any other phone I've ever owned- and this is in Cincinnati, OH, a town of less than a million people. There is *question* that if the iPhone were merely just a phone I would have beaten it to death after setting it on fire months ago- but like millions of other people, I just love playing with the damn thing so much I'm willing to forgive the 10 percent dropped call rate in order to continue using the phone. HAVING SAID THAT- as soon there is a viable network alternative, I'm dropping AT&T like a pistol-hot potato infected with H1N1.I would hope that AT&T is paying attention- but somehow I doubt it.
@Xeno Maybe its 30% on all AT&T phones in NYC. The iPhone is the only one to collect that info in a way that is accessible to the end user (VIA the manufacturer).
I'm pretty new to ATT and iPhone 3Gs. I'm in Ann Arbor and can't even make a call or a data connection on the 3G network today. Several calls to the local store and off-shore tech support = many attempts and diagnosing and fixes = apologies for "issues" with congestion on the network today... anybody else.
It's as if Candlejack was the new CEO of AT&
Is this across New York or mainly New York city? The city itself obstructs signals with all the tall buildings, terrain and geography will do that to any service provider.
And its been stated that every service provider has less than stellar service in certain areas. It can't be helped for the most part. I used to have a verizon phone that would drop calls all the time in a town that I frequented, with att I've never had the same issue in that area.
You know that somewhere people are having dropped calls at a rate like this with another phone on another network, but nobody makes a big fuss over it because it isn't with a popular device like the iphone.
In Australia, '3' network has an average drop rate around 1%.
Yo, didn't ATT/Cingular have the network with the fewest drop calls a few years back? I remember those commercials on tv.
The network probably can't handle MMS and calls from iPhone users now. gimpy!
This was a problem from day one on AT&T with my iPhone. MMS will make the problem worse but I still routinely drop 1/3rd of my calls.
Anyone know where to get ahold of that diagnostic software? Very curious to see what my call drop rate is!
found out the diagnostic software is called Behavior Scan. Anyone have a link? :)
@mac
by "found out," you mean "read the work authorization" like everyone else here?
yea, great detective work.
On top of that wheres a chart with all carriers in all cities
CDMA Please!
I would estimate that I have a below 10% drop rate on Sprint in Los Angeles on my HTC Diamond.
In AT&T's / Apple's defense, NYC probably has a lot of dead zones given that it's a concrete jungle, so to speak. That and there's probably tons of network traffic.
They're talking about NY state, not NYC. I have an iPhone 3G on AT&T and live in NYC and can honestly say in the past year I've had ZERO dropped calls. Before that I had a Motorola Slivr for several years and never had many dropped calls on that either.
Matt...I might not live in NYC, but here in Baltimore, service is excellent most of the time with AT&T. Then I went to NYC for just 1 day, never managed to connect to the cellular 3G network, and had a huge number of dropped or just not connected calls. I couldn't imagine living there full time with AT&T and this phone...
The Apple genius is located in NYC, how do I know. The memo is written on has a 212 area code, which is Manhattan. AT&T service in NYC and the surrounding suburbs has always been poor quality. My Verizon blackberry curve will always have1-2 bars more service than the AT&T version.
I also blam Apple for creating a amazing product that everyone wants but barely works like a normal cell phone, no MMS for the first 3 generations, really why, and dont blame AT&T all the other phones support it. No camera flash, But there is an app for fart noises.... great job Apple.
At least he looks cool when his calls are dropping!
The standard procedure is to carry on talking after the call is dropped so you dont look like a douche.
LMAO +1
Verizon would have been just as crushed by the 20M iphones on their service as ATT. Either way, it's sad and annoying for such a cool phone to have so many dropped calls.
Possibly to begin with, but how many years has AT&T had the iphone? Plenty of time to ugrade their network to handle it. 30% drop rate is unheard of.
In that case, phones on multiple networks please!
Failing entirely to consider AT&T's service has been like this since long before the iPhone came out.
@Mike - Of course 30% drop rate is unheard of. Nobody can keep a call connected long enough to tell anybody about it!
How do you know their network would have been crushed? It may have, it may not have.. but simply saying it doesn't make it true.
@Sylvanus
ATT does not have "20M iphones" on their network, Verizons (as well as Sprints) CDMA-3.5G network is far superior to ATT's GSM-3G. How do you explain the 300M+ wireless broadband cards/USB modems running on Verizon and Sprint without a hitch? My company have 10 USB modems through Sprint, I can tell you when connected to a laptop those wireless modems pull a huge amount of data. To put is simple, Sprint and Verizons networks can handle huge amounts of bandwidth.
Forgot to add, several associates of mine have the iphone, most of the time they cannot get a 3G signal in certain parts of LA. If they among many cannot get a certain signal, how can anyone say it's the iphone? ATT had network issues long before the iphone came around.
Real geniuses.
You wanted to see me, Your Joggingness?
You guys don't get it. It's a "feature"
Apple please offer your phone to Verizon as well. That way we can spread the pain to Verizon users. Let's see what the iPhone load does to their network.
I hypothesize that the massive amount of new subscribers would give Verizon funds and motivation to upgrade their network. Better service to be had by all.
Windows Mobile.
Symbian.
Google Android.
All of them are capable of just as much network load as an iPhone. All of them have internet access, apps, push email, mms, etc.
They are all available on pretty much every network.
They outnumber iPhones.
The networks they are on don't seem to be having any trouble with them.
So, no, I don't think someone like Verizon would have a problem with adding another smart phone to their network.
yes i have had tons of dropped calls on my touch pro 2 on verizon in the past three weeks... wait, no, I havent had any.
WinMo - MMS - etc. etc. no issues.
Who cares about Verizon? It's a dead end, CDMA will be replaced with LTE in a year. Verizon network will not hold iPhones either. They know that. Supporting 2 radios for the truly world phone!? What for? Just to satisfy geeks zombied by Verizon cheap ads?
Incoming Shitstorm. *grabs popcorn*
yep, give it about 2 more minutes.
I'm in ur networkz droppin ur callz.
wtf is wrong there? I have literally never had a dropped call in my entire life
You need more friends.
It's really just luck. I have a dropped call probably once every two weeks, but my brother experiences them daily. Both have 3GS iPhones. Both live in the same area.
I'm in Utah, on Verizon. The only time I have to worry about dropping a call is if I'm driving though a canyon. Seeing how I'm not an asshole who uses a phone while driving, I drop calls
i probably had one or two dropped calls in all my 3-4 years with Cingular (most of that time was with a RAZR V3). on AT&T now with an iphone, dropped calls are much more frequent, though still not more than 1 or 2 a week.
@Giroro
How's the view from your cloud of judgement? Some people use bluetooth headsets or *gasp* speakerphones.
Wow! If 30% call drop is considered normal or average then at what point should it be a problem; 50% or 70%. Talk about low standards.
sent from my iPh..............................................WTF!
OK, can we please stop calling these college dropouts, geniuses.
Some of them wouldn't even make the cut for Geek Squad...
Furthermore, as I've noted in the past, iFans are more than happy to perpetuate mediocrity by supporting Apple and AT&T.
let's not be ridiculous now
I meant about the Geek Squad comment
Yeah geniuses, stop calling those college dropouts. Wait, what?
Umm....hmmm...you say that "iFans" champion mediocrity while you have Windows in your user name? I imagine you were straight-faced when you wrote it too... :(
It should be obvious that all the "Genius" was saying was that it's the service rather than the hardware. Seems like a pretty standard trouble ticket too me. But hey leave it to the internets to crucify some poor schlep who tells you the problem isn't his to fix.
Yeah, Fred. It's not like Apple had a choice when with the carriers and everything.
Yeah, I'm sure Ted the "Genius" at the store was consulted when that decision was made. AT&T is a big player and they were willing to make the concessions Apple wanted. I remember a time when AT&T was being hailed as a forward thinking company and a "game changer". Personally, I don't think I've had more that maybe 5 dropped calls that I can think of in the time since I started using their service (the iPhone launch). Lucky I guess.
That's not just for iPhones. Seems to be pretty standard for most AT&T customers in the NYC metro area.
Is this true primarily of 3G phones only in NYC?
Quick recap:
1) NYC has been a problem from the very start of the iPhone 3G release.
2) There was that iPhone 3G software upgrade fiasco that killed 3G connections for a week. AT&T blamed it on the idea that the iPhone 3G was 'too powerful.' In the aftermath, 3G data throughput was significantly reduced.
3) AT&T made a public not-apology stating that they were having problems handing off 3G traffic from tower to tower, and that in areas that were heavily congested, it was not easy to place a high enough density 3G equipment to facilitate the requirements of the network.
4) During a 'less than 8 hour' iPhone 3G data blackout (i.e., the kind for which you can't ask for a credit to your account), AT&T said that it was upgrading its 3G data network.
5) During this same interval, it was rumored that AT&T delayed the expected launch of the Blackberry 3G by several months over a concern regarding their 3G network.
6) Wired magazine released the results of its survey stating that in heavily congested areas, 3G data speeds were significantly lower than what AT&T advertised.
7) And of course, the FCC has been investigating to see if AT&T interferes with the release of software that will allow services similar to what it offers over its cellular data network to be released to the public, and laws have been proposed to make such actions by telecommunication companies illegal.
Sorry about the ramble, but I'm just curious if there's a major differential between AT&T's 3G and 2-2.5G networks. (AT&T's 2-2.5G network was the result of a merger, and many of the 2G towers had previously belonged to Cingular, which was not a bad company for its time.)
yes I have a blackberry bold on ATT and it sucks in NY and SF I would say 50% drop rate unusable ! It is VERY rare in Austin or DC to drop a call... How much do I hate my 2 yr contract? let's see only have a year to go.
so not it is not the Iphone - it is ATT that is the suck.
I used to have verizon, and literally had five bars of service EVERWHERE I went even in the middle of nowhere. Then I got an iPhone for my birthday, and had to switch to AT&T, huge dissapointment, it seems whenever I need to get directions or make an important call, I can't get anything to work because their network blows. I love my iPhone but i would love it even more if it worked when I wanted it too...
Ofcourse you are going to get service in the middle of nowhere. there is no one else there that you are competing for server with
Signal strength (as in bars) is a bogus measurement on a CDMA network. CDMA phones vary their TX power based on RX. It's a useful battery saving feature, but means the display on your phone is a best guess.
As much as I hate AT&T (no... really, I do) the biggest problem here is GSM. You will always have a high drop rate b/c of the way your handset communicates with the tower. CDMA does a soft-handoff. Tower 1 checks to make sure that tower 2 has you before it lets you go. With GSM you just jump around willy-nilly.
Nice. Let's all throw AT&T under the bus. It's not nearly that bad here in DC.
Now here's a fair question: Do all GSM phones fare this poorly in New York?
No idea what diagnostic software is being used; there's a test mode built into the phone, but it doesn't seem to display past call metrics. In phone mode dial *3001#12345#* then press CALL.
Being in the DC Area, and having a 3gs, I disagree. I would guess I drop at least 25% of my calls when walking around in my condo building or driving. Only when I am walking outside (in Arlington or DC) do I get consistent service.
Driving out past Tysons, and forget it. I drop 50% of calls in the car while driving around. It really is laughable.
That being said, the wife's 3gs doesn't drop nearly as many as I do, and they were both bought at the same time. QC issue perhaps?
As someone who supports about 500 iPhone users in DC, it's bad. Dropped calls are the least of it though, it's the hours or days later SMS and VM, combined with the "I have 5 bars but my phone doesn't ring when people call me' that really pisses people off.
"In phone mode dial *3001#12345#* then press CALL."
Thank you for calling the iPhone/AT&T service hotline. Your business is important to us. As a thank you for your patience, your failure rate has been upgraded to 35%.
Can't wait for Apple & Verizon to announce that the iPhone will be available on Verizon. Apple NEEDS to drop Apple like a bad habit!
?
I meant Apple needs to drop AT&T like a bad habit!
Zero! dropped calls on my Pre from day one.
Reason I returned iPhone was because of dropped call and horrible signal, and it isn't just at&t.
I could take the sim card out and put it in my HP and get better signal in the same spot.
Agree... I had to take the SIM outta my iPhone as well and bring it in because the damn thing locked up after every call i'd get. Had to RMA it and get a new one at the Apple store cause they couldn't figure out what was wrong with it...
I was walking around with my SIM in the old tank of an HTC 8525 and that thing had full bars everywhere. Even in the mall where the apple store was where i'd get 1 or 2 bars if i was lucky on my iPhone.
No dropped calls on your Pre, but you can't access data and be on a call at the same time...huge negative for many folks.
On a call with a co-worker, looking at a conference calendar on the web?
On a call with your significant other, checking out local showtimes?
...many times where accessing data while on the phone is a good thing...why can't Sprint do it???