Without a doubt, the military is home to some of the best gadgets. Fortunately for us, the non-lethal stuff often makes it into the hands of consumers after companies finish milking the government of its R&D budget. Case in point: this electricity-generating backup. Designed for the military, the
kinetic energy pack is suspended on a rail that generates electricity as you walk. The power generated will charge a standard US Marine-issue lithium ion battery pack or can be directly routed to whatever device you want to charge. The obvious benefit would be limitless power in the field freeing troops from carrying extra batteries on long missions. A power meter on the shoulder strap lets you monitor performance while a three-stage resistance device lets you regulate the power output. A braking mechanism lets you lock down the pack when you want to keep the pack steady. Otherwise, it looks like it'll generate about 8 watts of power while walking or 44 watts of power when running. Do want. See it in action after the break.
[Via
besportier]
posted October 6th 2009 5:49AM
How long would it take to charge that battery at 8 Watt hours?
Your question is wrong - or do you mean how long it would charge to take an 8 watt hour battery? In that case, an hour.
More interestingly, efficient laptops use
No, his question was right the first time... how long would it take to charge the standard lithium ion battery pack that a marine carry's? Which i guess would be however many watt-hours the battery is, divided by 8? I'm going to assume that the military has some very nice (probably fairly heavy) high-watt-hour'd batterys... so the answer would be quite a while.
But they've also got very low-energy-consuming devices to charge, which means they can charge things quickly.
Oh, trust me, we will STILL carry extra batteries in the field. Many, many extra batteries.
The length of time that it would take to recharge a battery, plus the fact that you'd have to be walking around the ENTIRE time it was charging, means this would never replace extra/backup batteries. At best, it would charge a couple of spare batteries that were already spent.
Most patrols go in one direction, then back in the direction you came from (even if A and B aren't back and forth, but a big circle, it's the same thing, furthest point is B in the following example). Your batteries would be fully charged going from point A to B (since you just started said mission), and then maybe recharge the first battery you used by the time you reach A (your base) again. You'd still have to recharge the primary battery you used coming back from B to A.
For excessively long missions, this might be used to attempt to keep a few batteries topped off, primarily radio ("comm") batteries. But in that scenario, it's much more likely the limiting factor will be food and water. Also keep in mind the added weight of this contraption. What weight you'd probably lose in extra batteries, you'd probably make add back (if not add more weight) with this contraption. Remember, real people will have to carry this thing, and our equipment loads are already outrageously heavy.
Lastly, after watching that Youtube clip, the very first thing I would do if I was issued this pack, would be to intentionally break that mechanism that allows it to slide up and down. Why? Because I just got nautious watching that damn pack go up and down and up and down. One of the most important things during a long hike is to keep your pack stable, that's why everything is kept tight and strapped down. All that inertia going up and down would throw off your balance, especially with the heavy loads we hike with today. Of course, if I just used the brake like in the video, some officer would come along and be like, "hey Devil Dog, why isn't your pack moving?" and order me to release the brake. Thus, I would INTENTIONALLY jam/break the brake so I wouldn't have to deal with this mess in the first place. "Sir, it's broken."
I honestly don't see this having any real impact on missions.
cool story, bro
Except that if you're using less than 1000 mWh/h, your batteries wouldn't discharge on the way out, because the pack would generate sufficient energy to run your devices directly just by walking. If you're just running flashlights and radios, there's no way you're going to go through 1000 mW in an hour. I suppose if you're trying to run a laptop or something you'd have difficulty, but who uses a laptop while they're walking?
Sorry, make the mWh mAh... assuming your gadgets are running at 8 volts, which seems reasonable.
Thanks for demonstrating how arrogance and willful ignorance can stand in the way of progress. You make a series of assumptions about a device that you know virtually nothing about, then top it off with a brilliant expression of blind prejudice (the pack going up and down makes you "nautious" (the nautical form of nauseous?)). And you use this concoction of non-thinking to justify sabotaging equipment that your life and the lives of your fellow soldiers might depend on.
If I was your CO I wouldn't sent you out on a mission with this pack. I'd keep you back at base cleaning out latrines, where you can't do any harm.
@Robrain
Gotta agree with Karl on this one. I wouldn't assume anything about this pack without trying it.
As for your concerns about the load transfer causing problems?
Read this: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0908_050908_backpack.html
Specifically this quote about how EASY it is to wear:
"In a commentary accompanying the Science report, Arthur Kuo, a mechanical engineer at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, writes that the backpack is easy to wear and works surprisingly well.
"Why it works so well is unclear," he writes. "Perhaps the device reduces the mechanical work required of muscles to walk while carrying a load."
Rome speculated that the added comfort may stem from the springs, which reduce the need to jerk the load up and down.
"Imagine that you step up on a rock with a rigid backpack. That weight has to go up instantly—it can't hang on the ground. … [I]n a suspended backpack, when you step up, the load lags behind you," he said. The effect is like that of a shock absorber, he explained. "
@ Karl - to fix YOUR ignorance, he clearly stated himself as being a 'Devil Dog' which means he is a US Marine, not a soldier. And yes, there IS a difference between the two.
@ KARL
Just as Karl have managed to point out Robtrain's "ignorance" and "assumptions" about something he doesnt know about, he forgot one thing. Karl doesnt know a dang thing about being a soldier/marine. Your so called progress is made possible by the men and women who have fought and died. Don't get me wrong, I am for technological advancement, but in my opinion, this will not fly with most soldiers/marines. And I used to be an Army Ranger, I have worn stranger contraptions and 90% of them are useless in the "field". Maybe for civilian use, I dont know. I haven't been walking around lately just enjoying the view and no one shooting at me while i'm carrying a rifle, ammo, gear and all that crazy stuff. When that backpack has a built in feature that starts pumping out more bullets for my rifle when I need it, I guarantee you, every soldier/marine would be wearing one.
@Karl
I have never been in the military, but I work for a company that makes military amplifiers for communications (mostly for MBITR) and we highly value the input we get from the men and women in the US Armed Forces. If we get input that our product is not feasible in the field, we go to great lengths to modify the unit to fit their needs (within reason), since they are the ones using it on a daily basis. I highly doubt that an Engineer from a University knows or actually experienced wearing all the gear the average warfighter has to tote around and for him to say "how easy it is to wear" holds little water. Maybe for an afternoon hike or something...
Most of the SpecOps community we work with do not use rechargeable batteries. They use BA-5390 or BA-5590 disposable batteries, but I think it is a great idea and if they can refine the work they have done it may be a viable option for the military. Heck, we might even make it into one of our kits!
"Except that if you're using less than 1000 mWh/h, your batteries wouldn't discharge on the way out, because the pack would generate sufficient energy to run your devices directly just by walking."
I know this is supposed to be a "future" tech, but I'm looking at it from my personal experiences, which are today. No batteries that I know of in the military are rechargeable via an external source while you're using them. It's not as simple as plugging in a USB cable and topping off your cell phone while using it. This is basically due to the battery design, the same contact point that gets plugged in to charge the battery is also the contact point used to plug it into a device.
"If you're just running flashlights and radios, there's no way you're going to go through 1000 mW in an hour."
Look, I'll say upfront that I haven't learned enough about electricity yet to make heads or tails of what 1000 mWh/h means.
Let's take an overview of things that I've personally used during my enlistment the past 4 years that used batteries:
Flashlights (High Output Surefires, multiple 123/a disposable lithium batteries, we went through these like candy)
PIR/PRR radios (mini radios for communicating to the other men directly around you, AA batteries)
CLU (Command Launch Unit for the Javelin, a shoulder mounted missile launcher, doubles as an awesome [best portable] Thermal Sight since there was generally nothing to shoot missiles at in Iraq after the initial push) - used Comm Batteries, disposable ones if I remember
TOW system (fly by wire missile launcher) [Ground Mounted] (uses rechargable comm batteries)
Standard Issue Large Thermal Sights
Field Radios - Comm Batteries
I'm honestly trying to remember what else used those "universal" comm batteries, besides the radios. If you were just regular, 0311 Infantry, there's a slim chance you would have used the CLU/TOW systems (and keep in mind, the TOW system is not considered man portable in any practical sense, meaning it's not going on any hikes).
Oh, there was also that Hellfire flashlight by Surefire, lol. That thing was big (heavy) enough to be a gun itself, and if I remember required TWO comm batteries to operate.
"Thanks for demonstrating how arrogance and willful ignorance can stand in the way of progress. You make a series of assumptions about a device that you know virtually nothing about, then top it off with a brilliant expression of blind prejudice (the pack going up and down makes you nauseous). And you use this concoction of non-thinking to justify sabotaging equipment that your life and the lives of your fellow soldiers might depend on."
Experience isn't blind prejudice. Experience will dictate what I do, including "sabotaging" my own equipment. Would it be any different if I duct taped the damn thing so it wouldn't move? Not really, because I still wouldn't be using the pack for it's supposed "purpose", and if I duct taped it, I would get "in trouble" lol, so yes, I would break this thing in a heartbeat. Performance ("getting the job done") is what counts. Things that pointlessly get in the way of me doing my job, yeah, I circumvent, as does just about every other grunt.
Experience says to me, my assumptions are spot on. The pack going up and down (MOVING) is not going to help keep your balance with a heavy load, especially on terrain that ISN'T FLAT. Ever had to hike up a mini mountain in Hawaii with a full gear load? Dirt roads that aren't perfectly flat? Down a ditch, up the other side of the ditch? It's the little things that I'm most concerned with a pack like this failing at, primarily because it MOVES.
Besides, who the hell RUNS with a HEAVY LOADED PACK in the military? Pretty much NO ONE. So if you are forced to run with said pack, are you really going to care whether or not you're getting a BAJILLION watts of superpower from your pack? No, you're not, because you're most likely in IMMINENT DANGER.
Okay, that last paragraph came out like a PowerThirst commercial, but you get my point.
Reference (pictures!):
http://www.milpower.co.uk/military_batteries.html
CTRL+F the following batteries on that page and check the pictures to see what I'm talking about. They're just a cube with a single connector, and they're used in just about everything.
MIL/BA-5590/U
We all are missing a vital point here.....a fit athletic soldier will charge the battery at 8 watts while walking and 44 watts while running. An unfit overweight or underweight engadget geek opening another pack of cheetos in his basement?......0 watts
Basically what you're saying is that geeks have no hope of ever getting 44 watts out of the thing, heh.
I'm a geek and I can sprint a solid 1.5 miles, run 5 easy. Blame the individual not the lifestyle.
Yeah, I could do that, too... But the I got out of school and nobody chased me anymore to try and beat me up...
The whole "geeks on the internet are unathletic" mindset is pretty much old hat. Nice try, though.
There's a difference between Geeks and Nerds....
Wouldn't it be more obvious to make the boots powergenerating, as you WOULD welcome some dampening there.
Also... put in some solar chargers on the damn thing to get an extra 4-6 watt...
I thought about the boots as well...but I dunno about solar cells. I don't think they're durable enough, and they definitely won't draw the same amount of power in the same amount of time and form factor.
I too a geek, am very fit:)
Does the pack weigh more than the extra batteries its trying to replace? For the weight and bulk that the pack adds, it would probably be better just to take a extra batteries and a solar charger.
it depends, if it's a radio battery I think they are as big as car batteries, so it would be kinda awesome
direct quote from http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0908_050908_backpack_2.html
"The researchers also learned that the self-powering backpack weighs only slightly more than a conventional pack—equivalent to carrying around an extra candy bar."
so there you have it. the entire power generating contraption adds hardly any weight to the backpack so if this backpack allows me to bring only two high power battery packs with me instead of five to keep my gadgets running during a long hike I'd GLADLY wear it.
Besides, judging from the video of the guy wearing this backpack this backpack looked extremely comfortable to wear.
There was some movement when he walked but when he was running there was hardly ANY movement on the pack at all! Anyone here that has actually jogged with a 60+ pounds heavy backpack will tell you that that it is a pain to do, no matter how hard and tight you strap the pack down it will move around so why not put that movement into good use and get added comfort as a bonus?
This backpack must be a dream to wear, and anyone else objecting to it should be shot..
Lol... I'm imagining fellas walking w/ an extra limp in their step to generate more juice.
Seriously, is this thing actually seeing widespread military use? And when can we expect to have them?
A pseudo shock-absorber built into the frame MIGHT distribute the mechanical energy of the normal up/down movement of the pack while walking or running, acting as a de facto stabilizer. Lateral motion would be another matter. There must be more elegant solutions. Oppositely charged magnets on knee pads? A crotch-powered Stirling engine? ;-)
No one else thinking somewhere down the line...IRON MAN!
The bottom line here is that this backpack will make walking/running more Work for the person wearing it (I mean Work in the physics sense). It's just conservation of energy - in the ideal BEST case, this would be 100% efficient, and the wearer would be converting metabolized energy into the electricity to charge the battery (eat some extra food, get generally more fit - human generator - cool!).
In actual practice, extra force is applied to get that pack moving up every time you step - which results in some conversion to electrical current on the way up, and as the pack is falling back down, the wearer has to exert extra force to stop it. When you're walking all day and doing everything you can to keep your pack light and your exertion under control for the long hauls and/or for when you really need energy, I can't imagine this seeing much real adoption when you could just carry a couple of extra batteries. Or better, a small hand crank charger, which would likely be far more efficient in terms of energy conversion.
sure, the practical application of this pack is not totally there yet, but it is very close and more importantly, the pack is giving you FREE ENERGY or rather, non-fossil fuel burning energy which IS AWESOME!!!!
if they could incorporate this into a backpackers backpack, awesome, cause i like to have a mobile phone with me or a headlamp and this would be able to charge all that stuff since i walk ALL DAY LONG!!
great idea and great initiative and remember people, its FREE ENERGY which is the main plus here IMHO.
This was what I designed with a classmate for my senior design project for my electrical engineering degree.
What we learned was that it took a VERY heavy load in the pack to generate enough power, making it for the most part worthless for students, commuters, etc.
Link: http://courses.ece.illinois.edu/ece445/?f=Projects&sem=spring2007&proj=9#a9
This is a science project and useless for combat. 44W at a hard run? How long does one expect to be performing hard runs with a full pack in a combat zone? Whoever designed this doesn't really understand how modern combat works.
Here's my nobel prize winning idea: Just give the Marines a man-portable generator using a miniature 4-stroke engine and gasoline. Total weight: 10 lbs (don't believe me? Try a Honda GX25) Energy capacity: 10 MJ/Liter of fuel (after efficiency calculations) - total power per liter of fuel - 167KW-h.
And if everything goes FUBAR then you can always use the gasoline for any number of things, namely, making improvised explosives, lighting fires, signaling, bartering, etc.
Well, how much dollars could this technology command ???
alot of competition in power generation is really close @ hand!