European Commission likes Windows 7 browser ballot screen, will probably fine Microsoft anyway
By Tim Stevens 
posted Oct 7th 2009 7:37AM
posted Oct 7th 2009 7:37AM
posted Oct 7th 2009 7:37AM
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yeah... 'cause the problem here is the browser... not that you are forced to buy an OEM license when you buy any laptop brand
Dell != Any laptop brand
Dell = a laptop brand, therefore the comment that you're forced to buy Windows with ANY laptop is wrong.
Also, Dell isn't the only one offering Linux.
I really don't understand why the EU feels the consumers are too dumb to help themselves here. If I don't want Windows pre-loaded on my machine, I'll go to any of the dozens of vendors who offer bare-bones machines, or I'll build one myself.
I don't want to be "protected" by the EU thankyouverymuch.
guys com'on! Now because DELL on selected computers and only in some countries sell Laptop with Ubuntu it means there is not the problem to buy a laptop without pay the Windows OEM?
Make a list of the Laptop I can buy without but windows, I'm waiting
And make a list on how many people stick with linux...and for how long until they get a pirated version of windows.
Dell's ubuntu lineup is pathetic, their offerings are old and 32 bit, and their support for their Ubuntu customers is downright abysmal.
I don't think that even counts in a practical sense, not for most people.
SewerShark, I can see myself being tempted by Mac, I'll probably own another one soon, may even switch from Ubuntu for certain things, but I sure as frick don't miss Windows and I'll continue to not provide support for it, ever.
Thanks guy with the Ubuntu logo as an avatar for the objective, insightful and well-reasoned posting discussing all the advantages of Ubuntu over Windows.
at least they don't feel ashamed to use the logo of their favorite OS as the Windows fanboys :)
ethana2, why I thought with ubuntu's 5 million percent increase in efficiency over windows, you didn't need more powerful hardware.
The U.S. government should do the same to European products entering the U.S. -- eye for an eye.
I like Ubuntu, but I couldn't see it replace my os. Mostly because I'm into gaming.
But it is a nice OS with a lot of things already built in that the average user needs.
If they would just work on driver support, and get some came compatibility rolling, they would really be kicking.
@ A.Mueller
"I really don't understand why the EU feels the consumers are too dumb to help themselves here. If I don't want Windows pre-loaded on my machine, I'll go to any of the dozens of vendors who offer bare-bones machines, or I'll build one myself. "
That's why Apple computers are getting more and more popular these days. People are realizing there are superior choices when buying computers rather than sticking to the same ol' problem of being stuck with Windows in a laptop. And also, the majority of the world population (not just in Europe) does not care nor give a rat's tail about going to the dozens of half-built PC vendors and building their own computer. Normal consumers do not want to "build" a computer like legos, normal consumers want a ready product that can deliver superior customer experience. Macs fit that bill perfectly and OS X lets consumers get their work done without getting in the way.
It's all about giving competition a fair chance. Without competition everything would be worse. Exclusivity=cash.
I know A LOT windows users who don't even know there are different browser. They don't even know what's a browser, they just call it Internet Explorer for every browser they come in front of. So yeah, I think the EU is doing the right thing, at least you'll educate some of the most illiterate Windows users, and some might even give "those other Internet Explorers" a try and end up knowing a little more about choice.
It's how Europe works, we don't want mindless drones buying into everything any company tells them, and that is not what we call a effing feature.
I still don't understand what all the fuss was about. Nobody makes you use the browser, the media player or any of the games that come with the OS. Seems like the EU just wants free money.
Everybody != You
The EU doesn’t like when companies abuse a dominant position in the market. In this case Microsoft is dominant in the OS market so if they packaged IE in with Windows they would be using their OS dominance to get IE (a different product) into people’s houses. Hence they would be abusing their dominant position.
The goal behind all this is to protect the consumer by keeping markets competitive.
please go and get an education before you comment ...
shhhh... shhhh.... please don't say this to loud!
Beside that, if you realy think of, it so funny that Microsoft get fined for this, microsoft OS is the best OS in the world, works with any hardware, almost any software can develop to their OS (paid or free ware), you can ask any one, everyone nkows that you can install as many browsers as you want on It.
Apple doesn't bundle Safari in Mac OS X, does it?
Oh yeah ... it does!
Obviously, the EU didn't notice that.
@umangs94
Apple doesn’t have market dominance so they can’t be fined for abusing their dominant position under EC Law.
Dominant position abusement my ASS!
It's your proprietary product that you introduced to the market, so the hell you can bundle shitloads of crap with it as you please, no friggin commission should have ANY word in that, more so fine you for that!
I hate this EU buero crap sucking private money! And I live in EU, which makes me ashamed!
Also, no wonder MS products cost twice as much here in EU than in the US. They have to make up for their loss! :(
Apple abuses ITS iTunes
Dell abuses ITS laptops
Microsoft abuses ITS Windows
Adobe abuses ITS Flash
...
Nobody should EVER bother even thinking about fining these giants for what they do (unless of course they cause real damage or harm to anyone).
Yeah well I suppose it depends on who’s side your on the big monopolies or the consumers. I for one am all for stopping big business abusing their power and pushing competitors out of the market (just look at the state AMD is in at the moment).
Any economist will tell you competition leads to increases in efficiency and welfare gains for the whole economy.
As an Engadget reader you should also realise competition encourages innovation which is good if you want technology to progress. How shit would the world be if Microsoft were the only company and we were all using Hotmail.
I'm fine with bundling whatever the hell you want with your product...Just make sure you don't intentionally cripple other software. The EU did go overboard with this. Microsoft has not crippled any browser since Netscape and I think the current set up is fine where they include IE and it's easy to just go and download another browser.
@loocas
What are you whinging about? This is a good decision to a situation that never should have got to this stage. Personally, I have a lot of respect for what the EU has been doing, which is basically protecting YOU, on this case and other ones recently.
So where are all of the makers of text editors, photo manipulation, home movie makers, calculators, screen savers, games, IM clients, system utilities, sound recording software, and now even antivirus? Why aren't they bitching and moaning to the EU that its unfair that Microsoft includes all of these programs in their operating system and depriving the consumers of a choice in those programs? I got a nice idea of a EU friendly version of windows. Its a completely blank screen with a start menu that includes Run and Control Panel, nothing comes preinstalled what so ever. That way the consumer is free to choose any thing they want to use once they figure out how to connect to the internet and install a web browser.
@Fais
HP had 20.8% market share in 2008 (I don't know about the same currently); they bundle this media player sort of thing called QuickPlay. I am pretty sure that it is available globally on all HP notebooks. I don't see the EU complaining.
I am quite sure that other manufacturers bundle other software too.
Oh, and by the way, HP is the market leader.
http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2008/06/14/notebook-computer-market-share-q1-2008.aspx
I can't wait until they start fining Honda for selling cars with ... HONDA ENGINES! OH THE HORROR
@umangs94
Market share alone does not show dominance. There is lots of case law on what does but in a nutshell a dominant company has the ability to influence the market independently of its competitors. HP cannot influence the worldwide laptop market on its own!
http://europedia.moussis.eu/books/Book_2/5/15/04/01/index.tkl?all=1&pos=196
on top of this one must prove that the company has abused its position I don’t think bundling software alone is enough it would have to be an anticompetitive abuse on the scale of [Microsoft v Netscape] or [Intel v AMD]. I think in this case Microsoft is playing it safe and for some PR brownie points.
> In this case Microsoft is dominant in the OS market so if they packaged IE in with Windows they would be using their OS dominance to get IE (a different product) into people’s houses.
>Hence they would be abusing their dominant position.
So it is important that EU sue Microsoft to keep the market competitive?
Except that the choice they are offerring is which FREE browser your OS comes with.
Exactly what does it matter which FREE program that the OS comes with? Microsoft bundling IE with the OS doesn't steal any money from competitors who might have had the chance to give their FREE browser away.
So the "competitive market" we are talking about is the one where different software manufacturers compete to see how many people use their free software? What is this, the olympics?
@loocas: I know what you're saying.
They're not forcing you to do anything. If you don't like IE, then you simply get another browser. They're not blocking installation, are they? That's like saying when I buy a Dell laptop, they have to ask me which OS I want.
It's not a monopoly if it's freaking free. If people actually care about which browser they want (see Google's study, many people don't even know what a browser is), they can get it.
If they don't, well, doesn't really affect them much does it?
@ Ryan
"I can't wait until they start fining Honda for selling cars with ... HONDA ENGINES! OH THE HORROR"
Are you:
a) stupid, OR
b) a blatant troll
There is no other choice. So which one is it?
Do you think any manufacturer can go and install their engine in a Honda car before it rolls out of the assembly plant? Is there a system in the automobile industry to allow such a thing, thus allowing consumers to chose their car and their engine? of course not. Yet you try to compare something that does not exist with Windows, an OS that was designed to allow other programs to be installed at the user's will.
Clearly you have no clue about the IE vs Netscape war. Everybody was using Netscape as it was the superior choice compared with Netscape. MS continued releasing garbage IE updates that could not compete. So in order to win, ultimately MS abused its monopoly and chose to bundle IE with Windows, thus the general population got the perceived understanding that they no longer needed to chose and forgot about Netscape.
You see, when consumers are presented with a choice, most likely they do not chose Microsoft.
I can't believe how hard it is to uninstall IE? Seriously people..
This is a small deal, blown the hell out of proportion; and just so you know, the situation is resolved, and you can choose whatever browser you want now.
Next.
Isn't all this outrage just some misguided nationalism? All your free market ideals don't actually work if you have a monopoly, you now. So, before starting hating the EU for trying to prevent monopoly and actually trying to promote competition, you should go back to the basics and learn something about how markets work and how they respond to monopolies before spouting your shitty arguments about how a USA based company is being mistreated by the evil Europeans.
@(Unverified)
First off, windows doesnt work on almost all hardware. That's linux/BSD that does that. You can install any browser (or anything) you want on linux. Linux is far easier to develop/compile for, as the majority of the good tools are made for linux, with a possible port to another OS. You seem to not have noticed the great linux community.
The problem with Internet explorer in a business environment is u go into setting & uninstall Internet explorer then u go into “windows explorer” enter a website address in the address bar & it connects to the internet, WHAT PART of uninstall Internet Explore don’t Microsoft understand.
If the IT department were staffed by competent people they could easily have any addressed typed in Explorer automatically launch a browser window of the browser of their choice.
My local library uses Firefox, and that's what happens when you try this.
Its not the IT department that we have a problem with its users at night doing nothing but surfing the internet & not working, there are programs you can buy that would stop this but WHY should we have to buy more software to stop u using a program when u have “uninstalled” it…
You need to train your users not to type web addresses into Windows Explorer. I don't see how you can make that mistake. The programs are completely different..?
sometimes its just easier to type it in windows explorer
Thats what most people dont realise it is imposable to completely uninstall Internet Explorer it is totally integrated into windows u uninstall it but “windows explorer” still uses some files from Internet explorer. If I choose to uninstall internet explorer then it should COMPLETELY uninstall. I am no lover of the EU but thank goodness they are here for this.
Based on what seems like a very stern business ethic and attitude towards your minions employees: May I suggest some form of negative reinforcement?
Maybe you could have a sizeable electric shock through the keyboard when they open any kind of http communication?
Or some guy stood behind with a giant whips shouting "WORK! You low life numbers lost in a corporate structure! WORK!"
Seriously...
Here's the thing that I don't "get". I have Firefox setup as being my Internet Browser in the Control Panel but yet Outlook still opens all email links in IE8. What gives?
"Its not the IT department that we have a problem with its users at night doing nothing but surfing the internet & not working"
So to stop users browsing the net you uninstall IE, rather than just disconnecting the internet connection? Yeah, that makes sense.
News flash: it is the IT dept you have a problem with.
If that's your solution to prevent excessive browsing, I dread to think how you deal with security.
If you haven't already setup an alternate default browser, and you uninstall IE.. wtf is it supposed to use? cmd.exe?..
c'mon.
So no more IE in Europe huh.
I highly doubt it! Most of the regular users don't eve know what FireFox is and further even don't have a clue why the hell they should bother installing (not even knowing what this term means) a program that allows them to do what they already can! o_O
This is really pure ridiculous BS!