T-Mobile 'considering additional measures' to compensate Sidekick owners
By Chris Ziegler 
posted Oct 12th 2009 3:58PM
posted Oct 12th 2009 3:58PM
"All impacted Sidekick users will receive credit for one month of Sidekick data service. We recognize the magnitude of this inconvenience. Our primary efforts have been focused on restoring our customers' personal content. We also are considering additional measures for those who have lost your content to help reinforce how valuable you are as a T-Mobile customer."
THEY BETTER!!! Only $20 stinking dollars for the lost of all your diigtal mobile life... Sidekick users are more on the social sphere than the technical one. I don't really blame them for not backing-up. They pay for a service to be performed by those that are experts on the field. They deserve more than just a $20 Free unlimited data month... They cannot even use it yet !
Apparently your data is only worth $20. That's just unacceptable. I don't own a sidekick. But I truley feel for anyone that Is affected by this. I would be livid.
It sounds like you don't blame them for not backing up their data because they are stupid?
well no offense to most sidekick onwers, their data is pretty much worth 20 bucks. people lose phons all the time and have to recover contacts.
unless you're one of the few, the proud, the smart phone owners.
Don't twist thing. I am not calling anyone stupid. Not every person that owns a car knows about mechanic. My car could break and I would have no idea on what to do. That is why I pay for insurance and emergency road protection. Maybe backing-up your data was never advertised or advised to these Sidekick users. Maybe they were super-assured that their data would always be safe and reliable in the could. When you pay for a service under contract, you trust the other party to offer the services promised. We know this things may happen with computers, but it is heavily advertised and advised to back-up your data. The problem was caused by the negligence of one party (T-Mobile, Microsoft, Hitachi, whomever it is).
I have not seen on the contract that T-Mobile demands users to keep their data backed-up
@FrankJL: WTF! I sincerely hope that's a fake e-mail. Either way: everyone sign that email up for as much random crap as you possibly can.
@ Mark: No dude, imagine if he is doing that to harm an innocent person's inbox. Maybe a girl named Gennove who broke his heart in high school and now he stalks.
@tikiteko: That bitch? Spam her!
How do I get an avatar picture on this site?
They should pay every user a million dollars and get it over with cheaply (should cost about 5-6 million, right?)
@hobo I know 4 Sidekick users and I am not that popular.
This is such a huge catastrophe, I think a year of free service is a reasonable response.
I say give 'em G1s and further push Android out there.
Excuse me while I get a good laugh....
Hahahaha, hohohoho, teeheehee, yuk, yuk, yuk, uh-ha, uh-ha, uh-ah, chuckle, chuckle, ROFLMAO x10,000. Oh my eyes are starting to tear and my sides are aching.
Ok, I'm back and I'd like to express my condolences to all those that lost data and to Microsoft who is always screwing up when it comes to their mobile platform. To Steve Ballmer, forget it. He can go sit on a hot branding iron.
Toss the Sidekicks in the trash and buy an iPhone instead and please remember to always back up your important data at least two times.
I'm sure Microsoft will offer you fine compensation in that you don't have to pay for however long your Sidekick isn't working. That seems totally fair to me.
@Average:
Why would you back up your iPhone twice? If it has no problems as you seem to claim then you shouldn't need a backup, correct? And what is the difference between people backing up their Sidekick in case of data loss and backing up their iPhone in case of data loss - data is still lost and can be restored. What if you backup to Time Capsule and your Mac desktop? Over the past few days we have seen that this is not exactly the best choice, either.
Then there is that little bit to the right saying that Mobile Me is having problems...
sent u an invite! anyone else?
How about a class action lawsuit at MS for losses with whatever comes out of it going towards new everything for their users for a year. New phones and accounts. Seriously. MS should feel a sting off of this.
They'll just pass it on to Hitachi, the real screw-ups of this scenario. But really everyone is to blame for not having the proper oversight into things to make sure they were done properly.
I've not read it personally, but I'd be willing to bet there is plenty of verbiage in the user agreement that addresses "limits of liability." I'm quite sure that no lawsuit, class action or otherwise, would get very far.
Was there no way for users to back-up their own data? (I honestly don't know - I'm asking.) Was there no app that backed-up data to SD card, or something? All I know is this whole thing makes Android look better and better.
Hmmmm. Hitachi may have caused the problem, but no Judge worth the air he/she breaths would ignore the fact that the idiots (MS) didn't do any backups. The plaintiff could bring in ten thousand IT admins who would state the underlying goal of an administrator is data integrity and security. Everything else we do is to support that goal, be it a system reimage or upgrading an app.
This is IT Admin 101 in school. Everyone who does IT knows that you do backups and sure as heck do backups before something as risky as a firmware update on your drives. The liability for data loss falls squarely in MS's lap.
Unless that liability has been passed to Hitachi.
You'd have to look at the contractual terms.
I still don't think Microsoft or even Hitachi (botching an upgrade without backing it up is pretty fail) are really at fault here.
Some moron decided that all data wouldn't be stored locally on the Sidekick and the phone would rely solely on an outside provider to hold its valuable data. That guy is to blame.
T-Mobile sold the device. Data is uploaded via T-Mobile's network. In fact T-Mobile owns the trademark to Sidekick - Danger merely designs them. People often forget that contract phones are not sold directly by the manufacturer - they are sold by the network who in turn sells it to customers.
Still, no pity to owners of Sidekick. What kind of idiot would purchase a phone which does not allow direct access to user data and has no internal flash memory for storing said data. The warning signs were there. In fact I am quite happy such an outage has occured now, perhaps people would be more cautious over the rising trend of so-called 'cloud computing'.
"Was there no way for users to back-up their own data? (I honestly don't know - I'm asking.) Was there no app that backed-up data to SD card, or something? All I know is this whole thing makes Android look better and better."
Does it? The founder of Danger and creator of this stupid device went on to found Android. It makes me even more wary of Android if anything.
@John
Hitachi was responsible for backing up the data before the upgrade, which they did not. From what I've read, they were outsourcing to Hitachi for a SAN upgrade...not simple hard drive firmware. I'm sure you find it amusing to point the finger at MS, but I really doubt you understand the complexities of changing the storage environment and how that might have rendered old backups next to useless, depending on how they were made.
Regardless, Microsoft should have had mandated more oversight from their engineers into the process, but that is probably why they outsourced it in the first place. It's also worth considering how much of the old Danger infrastructure/employees were involved in the process too, which could have made communication and coordination considerably more complex.
Yeah. HDS was doing the upgrade but they're typically under no obligation to back up your data for you. They follow their established procedures and EXPECT all to go well, but in the event of a problem, they just need to get the device running right. The customer (MS) is responsible for the data, unless the contract specifies otherwise.
No doubt HDS would be happy to perform a full backup of all of your data before an upgrade.. for, undoubtedly, $10,000 per hour worth of work, plus costs, plus...
What I don't understand is why the data was not recoverable from a remote site. I am simply unwilling to believe that this data lived in only one datacenter on one storage array.
Yes and no on HDS being on the hook for backups. I use HP XP12000 arrays (same as the HDS Tagmastor) and we routinely contract with HP for a variety of work done on the arrays. It all depends on the contract terms, but most vendors (such as HP) with push to make sure there's a recoverable backup on site before touching anything, along with doing a site survey of all the systems, adapters, and firmware levels of everything connected. Yes, it's incredibly complicated but migrating between arrays can be a fairly simple and routine task. My guess, having lived through a variety of things like this, is that the data owner didn't have a reliable, recoverable backup and the SAN vendor couldn't help. It could be that they have the data, but no way to recover and migrate it. This is something we may never know fully about.
A class action litigation against Microsoft and T-Mobile is coming!
Day spa might indeed soothe the anger away. You could always buy them cucumbers and tell them to DIY, but they might get the wrong impression.
DIY? They already got dicked by T-Mobile, Hitachi, and Microsoft/Danger. I think a cucumber is the last thing they need about now.
Day spa?!?!
How about a voucher for Asian massage parlor,
I'll take care of "the tip"
I vote Steve Ballmer dunk tank.
Awesome, but it probably wasn't directly his fault.
No, but I bet it would make a lot more people feel better than a simple credit on their bill!
We apologize for your data being lost, so we will offer the following options
Press 1 to have a payment paid off on us, or Press 2 to go to disneyland.
If you want none of these options, press the pound key to delete all of danger's employers contacts. By choosing this selection, all previous options will not take affect and ##############################################
Or a BJ from Catherine Zeta-Jones?
Here's a GREAT WAY to initiate "Project Dark/Black" and waive their contracts AND ETF's and give then Unlimited for $50 a month FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!
The irony, the rumors about T-Mobile and this Project Dark thing... and all this users left in the dark... Is this like a bad omen, a subliminal message, or a marketing tactic?
My heart is with you Sidekick owners. Although I doubt you use this forum. La lumière soit avec vous !
According to Gizmo, reps are offering to let users leave without paying an ETF, or get a new phone at a $20 discount off of new customer pricing. Sounds fairly generous to me. I doubt AT&T would do the same.
"I doubt AT&T would do the same."
What a totally asinine comment.
Waiving the ETF is the LAST thing t-mob should want to do at this point. Maybe they're worried they can be hit with some kind of breach of contract from customers? Otherwise I don't know why they wouldn't offer every incentive under the sun to STAY.
Give them all G1s. They'll feel right at home with it. And google won't lose their contacts, too.
Or better yet, give them free pre-released Cliq-s. Then they'll be the 1st ones to get it (socially good), it will be on Android (technically better than MS), and will have motoblur (socially easy).
THat would be pretty awesome if they did something like that.... Get them (and later their friends) off the stupid MS platform, and put them at the forefront of tech and social tools.
I don't know about that. I've read horror stories where the syncing between the G1 and gmail FUBARed people's contacts. Granted this was back in January after only 3 months of it being on the market, so they prob got that straightened out. All I know is please not the G1. I have a G1. Its one of the cheapest phones I've ever owned. And when I say cheap I mean quality wise. If they are going to get anything it should be a Motorola's Cliq.
John Doe, I also own a G1, and I find that it can take quite a beating. My sliding assembly isn't loose at all, the only thing that I've had a problem with hardware wise is my space button needs a little more pressure for it to work. But other than that, I've seen G1s take plenty of abuse, and it just takes it like the brick it is.
Really T-Mobile that's it? They definitely just lost some cool points in my book for customer service.
I love my G1, but if something of that magnitude happened to me, I'd bitch someone until they gave me like 3 months of free SERVICE and a new phone. I wouldn't put up with that. Hell, I'd probably make them wave the cancellation fee and just go somewhere else.
And the craziest part of this whole thing is that they still have no idea as to when they will have the issue resolved. I have some technologically challenged friends who are going crazy and have no clue as to what the hell Danger is or why they would stop them from having their contacts and stuff. They should stop being cheap and give them all G1 or MyTouch 3G's(hell Oprah could do it).
Don't you dare to bring Oprah into this !!!! :D :D :P
Google is cloud computing too. What's to say this can't happen with Google servers too?
Yes, it could happen to Google, technically, but given that Google requires its employees to have a PhD or better education, they would know to back up the damn servers!
Whatever they do, it better be big. Just giving them a month of free service is a crock. People keep their entire lives on these freakin' things.
Oh, and the freebie better not be a Sidekick. If I was a Sidekick user right now, there's no way I'd be sticking in that ecosystem.
I heard you brother. They are banning angry users from the T-Mobile Forums !
http://www.pcworld.com/article/173490/Angry_Customer_Banned_From_TMobile_Sidekick_Web_Forum.html?tk=rss_news
As reported by PC World
so why is the image upside down?
The international symbol of distress is a flag hung upside down.
I don't own one .... but I'd think buying back the Sidekick at list price, and giving a free replacement of their choice would be a decent start.
Class Action lawsuit for 20 million dollars divided by 800,000 affected users, minus lawyer fees = $20 per person.
Lost phone book = Priceless.
I'd be much more concerned about finding my phone numbers
+1
Only one move to make - Free Android phone with free unlimited service for 1 year.
Really?? A free $500 handset and [around] $900 in free service (assuming a conservative $75/month.)
You really think that each and every user deserves over $1,400 in compensation?!??
Waaaaaaaaay cheaper than the immanent class action thats brewing!
No way, Todd... This ABC news report puts the number of affected users somewhere near 1 million... let's go with 800,000 just to be conservative.
Take that $1,400 per user and multiply by 800,000 users, and you get... wait for it... wait for it...
$1,120,000,000 (or, 1 Billion, 120 million dollars.)
So, even IF a court decided that the iron-clad contract that every user signed assigning a very limited liability to T-Mo and it's contractors for potential data loss was not valid (which it totally is,) you still think that ANY judge is going to award over a BILLION dollars in judgment over something like this?? No way.
Look, I get your point, but $1,400 per user is a ridiculously overzealous figure. Like, out of the stratosphere of reality kind of ridiculous.
Um, yes, if not even more. I'm not a sidekick user but my phone book alone is worth my entire annual income if not more. If I can't get ahold of my clients I don't work.
$1400 is a small price to pay for data loss, Matt. Although I think customers should get any handset of their choice, it doesn't have to be Android necessarily.
If your phone book is worth that much then why the hell would you not take some personal responsibility for it?!?! Perhaps take out a supplemental insurance policy from Lloyds of London, or maybe even, I don't know, keep a backup so that a single point of failure doesn't sink your frakking battleship! A little common sense goes a long way, folks.
@Paul - EXACTLY!!
@[everyone else] - None of you seem to grasp that users have all signed user agreements limiting T-Mobile's liability for these things. Your phone book could be encrusted with diamonds, but if you sign an agreement stating that T-Mo is only responsible for XYZ (say, service fees,) then you are out of luck! You can't sue someone after granting them limited liability.
I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!
I feel like there are a lot of corporate apologists on here who think companies should be allowed to fuck over customers.
@Mobile Phone Diva
I'm not talking about who's right or wrong... who should be allowed to screw someone over and show shouldn't... I'm talking about FACTS... that's it.
The FACT is that users signed agreements limiting liability and, presumably, agreeing to arbitration (as opposed to litigation.) That's it... the end. Game over. Whether that is right or wrong I'll leave for you to decide, but if the courts decided that contracts are useless, and that people and entities can't be held to those agreements (as in, deciding that you can sue over this even though you signed a binding agreement stating that you can't,) then what's the point of our legal system?
The system doesn't break-down because you're pissed of. I like the example I saw earlier of external hard drives... they fail every day... who gets sued over that?
What happens is Tmobile needs a class action law suit on this, then they will need to in turn, sue danger/MS
It's situations like these that remind me of that not-quite-so-famous quote from Animal House:
Otter: Flounder, you can't spend your whole life worrying about your mistakes! You fucked up - you trusted us! Hey, make the best of it! Maybe we can help.
how about a free unlocked iPhone for all who have been affected.
I'm confused. T Mobile would want to compensate them for their losses not punish them with a crappy, keyboardless, locked down, pile of crap, all for show, Godphone.
You think a Sidekick is a better phone than the iPhone?
Seriously?
yes, even when a sidekick is little more than a fancy paperweight without any contacts.
This may surprise you, but some people do not like the iPhone. Not an Apple thing, not a platform thing, just not the device for some people.
@Jack
For the main purpose of the phone (texting/IM) yes.
lol? In what way is the sidekick better? And by the way, nobody gives a shit if you don't LIKE the iPhone. This isn't about if you LIKE it or not. This is about the fairly insane assertion that the sidekick is a BETTER PHONE. Also, just to head you off at the pass here, a physical keyboard is a personal preference. It does NOT make the sidekick "better". You may prefer it, and that's great. But it doesn't make the sidekick a better phone. At all.
The "better" phone is the one that works best for you. The best phone for some people is one that just makes calls.
Maybe it should be about the fairly insane assertion that there is one single phone that is superior to all others. And even if there was, it surely wouldn't be produced by Apple.
The severe incompetence of Microsoft: The Sidekick incident
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/11/microsofts-danger-sidekick-data-loss-casts-dark-on-cloud-computing/
Jake - I think you missed the point. John Doe is a major anti-Apple troll, and he's complaining about other people trolling. Pot, kettle, black? Glass houses?
And once again, it doesn't matter if you don't like the iPhone or not. The assertion was made (or at least implied) that the sidekick is a better phone. It isn't. Glad I was able to help clear that up.
I don't think anyone cares about sidekick.
Time to get with the times.
Smartphones with buttons are so yesterday.
Buttons limit u.
iPhone 3g $49.
stfu
Your kidding right? Troll much? I can guarantee you that I could text rings around your iTard Phone on my G1's keyboard. The only thing the iTard phone is good for is a chucking rock on a lake. Personally I'd like to do an old fashioned book burning, but with iPhones. Toxic vapors? What are you talking about. Its Apple. Everything coming out of their rectum smells sweet as a fresh daisy.
Yes, texting. Because that's what grownups use phones for. Even if you ignore the speed typing tests people have done that actually show them typing faster on an iPhone (and I'm sure you are ignoring those for that exact reason), you still don't even know why you hate the iPhone so much. All you do is whine and cry about how bad it is, but without ever giving any reasons for it.
Troll much?
@Jack
How about the guy bringing up the iPhone on every thread there is today? That's not trolling?
And who cares what demographic it is. It still has a large following. Some people prefer hardware keyboards. It doesn't matter how good the virtual keyboard is (even with haptic feedback), it won't change that. The iPhone is not the be-all-end-all phone for everyone.
And the iPhone has nothing to do with the Sidekick. The Sidekick isn't even a touch screen phone.
okay ladies,
there's no need to respond to every iphone post.
just downrank and move on.
they you act so threatened by the mere mention of the iphone makes you all look like a bunch of pansies.
Looks like the Sidekick has a bad case of Alzheimer's. Time to take granny out to pastor.
Telstra in Australia have been releasing affected Sidekick from their contracts and/or allowing them to move over to iPhones.
(Ahhh, the joys of non carrier-exclusivity and ubiquitous GSM/UMTS.)
Why wouldn't you do this? I'll tell you why... because as I pointed out in an earlier post, you're talking about awarding (conservatively) over $1,400 per user - that is insane. Multiply that by 800,000 Sidekick users and you get over 1.1 BILLION dollars. Do you really think that T-Mo should really voluntarily cough up 1.1 BILLION dollars??
All I can say is that it's a good thing you're not the CEO of a large company. You'd have very loyal customers, to be sure... but you'd bankrupt your company making decisions like that.
Sorry - meant that for "digittante" (below)... not you GRUG.
Seems like after a goof like this, you'd want to make your customer MORE THAN WHOLE on their loss. Why not offer them the following package:
1. Choice of a new Touch Pro2 or MyTouch 3G at no cost to the subscriber
2. 1 year free voice/data plan for the new handset
3. A big 'ol helping of "I'm Sorry..."
Just my 2 cents...
the sidekick is a teens phone, the g1 is for grown ups
I just hope that T-mobile pony up something worthwile for their customers and that the company responsible also help towards it too.
Forgetting photos of loved ones lost, which slips into "emotional hardship" always a class action lawyer favorite.
Plus raw labor hours assigned to lost addressbook. Example, I must have over 100 hours of labor into my phones adressbook ( very well backed up I might add! ), at $40 an hour, that's four grand per person ( times your 800,000 ) right there.
Multi-billion dollar class action for this loss of user data is easy.
Billion dollar settlements against Microsoft are an everyday occurrence, just ask the EU!
:)
I'll tell you what, Todd... If anyone files a class action suit against T-Mo and gets anything above $100 per person in damages (let alone the $4,000 that you think would be so "easy") I'll send you $50 on paypal.
You can yell Sue Sue Sue, and try to rationalize and justify all you want - but you've yet to address the fact that users have expressly released T-Mo from liability in the event of data loss (save for what is specifically spelled out in the agreement.)
Seriously, if users get $100.01 or more each in a class action suit over this from T-Mo, I will send you $50.
The lawsuit really needs to be filed more against MSFT and Danger. T-Mobile at least tried to address the problem on it's end to it's customers, no word from MSFT yet as to why there seemed to be no periodic back-ups they can fall back on. I'm still wondering what kind of story they or Danger will have.
BTW, I saw on another board that MSFT may have misled T-Mobile about the maintenance of Danger. I don't know if that's true or not, but looks like the litigant could be T-Mobile if that pans out. Perhaps customers would be allowed to join the lawsuit.
is there no way for a user to back up their device locally, like to a computer or a flash drive or their car or whatever?
i mean seriously what intelligent person would put their faith in a device they couldn't back up to a medium they could HOLD IN THEIR HANDS FOR CONFIDENCE?
Maybe I'm just one of a dying breed of older, more experienced user who has learned the hard way to back stuff up and keep backups safe. Sidekick users should have been doing the same, especially if there's some kind of PC sync. I don't know -anything- about the machine but I find it hard to believe there's no way to use it to back up all data. But then, it's all stored off-device; i guess that means you'd be downloading EVERYTHING to a local machine.
I guess they should have thought of enabling user-controlled backups.
Maybe next time they'll allow us to provide the remote storage for the devices ourselves. I'm ok with my phone always accessing my home server for its info if the provider is also ok. or at least give me a program that allows me to get it from their servers using my computer and some authentication method. then you can instruct me to do it and if i don't you can blame me when you lose everything.
It's because the designers of the phone obviously thought nothing bad could happen with storing the contacts in a cloud and only in a cloud.
Public floggings are in order, really. I'm appalled that they have the nerve to offer something less than that.
It amuses me to see all these comments about $20 is not enough and class action here or there. Even if you were given $1000 it wouldn't bring your data back. Heck people loose cell phones with contacts every day; who do they sue.
Most of you don't even know the complexities of managing data servers and keep yelling "they should have backed up". Like most people who back up know, sometimes backups don't work.
It's just sad that when good companies make mistakes or fumble all we think about is how to get rich off of their errors.
Plus if you are one of the people that felt that because you paid T-Mo to manage your data that you didn't care about the risks then blame your ignorance.
Yeah you right, let's just let all commercial enterprises off the hook, no need to take responsibility for their actions.
Spoiled food? No problem let botulism wide out half the population. Hey, you ate that mayonnaise all on your own volition.
Your auntie was electrocuted by a poorly wired hair dryer, bah, you never like her anyway. GE gets a pass.
Every other car on the road is crashing into you as you drive down the street because the tire manufactures are outputting defective tires? Tough sh*t, no one promised you a safe drive home. Suck it up.
@Todd. You are a moron. Talk about bad analogies. How can you compare electrocution, poison and death to loosing phone book contacts. Could you please tell me how much each of those is worth to you?
When you're a PAYING CUSTOMER, companies need to take better care of your data or pay the consequences!!! I'm also getting sick and tired of hearing how some companies allowed social security data to get into the wrong hands. Companies that don't seem to care about their customers deserve to get called out and sued or whatever. Maybe it'll teach them to act more responsibly with their customers' data!!
So they negligently didn't back up before doing a SAN update. But how in the world can there be absolutely NO BACK-UPS from Danger whatsover?? Even if they did a once a month back-up, it's better than absolutely NOTHING!! They could have gotten something back from one of the old back-ups. This is just sheer uncaring, laziness and/or incompetence to not have ANY back-ups!!