Nokia sues Apple, says iPhone infringes ten patents
By Nilay Patel 
posted Oct 22nd 2009 10:52AM
posted Oct 22nd 2009 10:52AM
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
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Woah. Amazing!@
wooooo!
Sad that Apple has to steal ideas from Nokia.
Times like this I wish we could uprank articles.
Sad that a company like Nokia (or Apple or anyone else) had to use a patent at all. Patents only hold back technology, create billions in litigation and ultimately reward companies (technology, prescription or the alike) to simply invent something, sit on it for XX number of years. If what they invented is so amazing it shouldn't be easy to figure out by others.
BTW< not an apple or nokia fan. Just a guy that hates the idea of the patent.
No wonder the iphone didn't come with a native snake game...D=
how to forget that.... good times! good times! I still have my first phone which was a Nokia with a flashlight :D
I've been waiting for this since Apple announced they had "over 200 patents on the iPhone". 200 patents compared to how many parents the traditional phone manufacturers have after 20 years in the business?
Difference is Apple didn't sue anyone. Nokia just did. Bad, bad form.
The reason Apple didn't sue is because there's an uneasy truce between them and Palm (other than the iTunes sync thing)... Remember the idle threats being tossed around by both parties when the Pre was announced, and how it all came to naught? Some of Apple's patents sounded an awful lot like technologies Palm had in place for a decade.
That's a far cry from Nokia's claim that Apple, unlike other vendors, has either refused to pay licensing fees, or wanted to pay less than -some 40 other companies, "including virtually all the leading mobile device vendors,".
If this is accurate, it suggests that Nokia probably DID try to come to some legitimate agreement, but Apple refused.
This suggests that it's Apple who's operated in bad failth, at least from the perspective of Nokia.
"...During the last two decades, Nokia has invested approximately EUR 40 billion in research and development and built one of the wireless industry's strongest and broadest IPR portfolios, with over 10,000 patent families. ..."
"...Much of this intellectual property, including the patents in suit, has been declared essential to industry standards...."
sorry apple but if u dont want to pay. then create a new "standard" and put ir right next to every single gsm tower in the world. good luck with that ;)
Apple has created there own formats: QT, FairPlay, just to name a few.
Seems par for the technology course to me.
That's the spirit!
Why are they doing this this late into the game?
My guess is that they have been in discussions with Apple about the patents and they finally decided that they weren't going to reach an agreement so they are going to sue. Just my guess though.
It all comes down to money. I'm not sure why Nokia waited so long but I think they want the Royalty fees that Apple has earned through out the time they've sold the iPhone. Cha Chang!
My guess would be that they are covering their asses for multitouch in Symbian ^4 and Maemo 6. Once Apple sues them for multi-touch patents lawyers will do backdoor deals and agree to drop both cases.
Bingo. That's my take on it, too.
Very logical pvilleSE. Thanks! :)
@Detox
Read the article again, it doesn't say Apple is willing to pay. Even if they are though, it seems they want to pay less for the patents than what Nokia is calling. Why should Apple pay less than Samsung, HTC, Sony Ericsson...etc?
I doubt Apple can sue Nokia for anything relating to cellphones. Nokia has been in this game for some 20 years, and has been releasing smartphones since before Apple even thought of getting into the business. BTW, your multi-touch example is ridiculous. Learn a bit more about patents and patent infringements.
Multitouch has nothing to do with it. The granting of Apple's multitouch patent doesn't mean it'll hold up in court.
I imagine if Apple DID try to sue someone over multitouch, there are a number of prior art cases, outside of the company Apple bought to get a jump on the technology. Of course, this depends on the IMPLEMENTATION of multitouch, as well.
As for Detox:
If just about everyone else is paying licensing fees, are you suggesting that Nokia was trying to get a HIGHER than average fee from Apple. Do you have any evidence of this?
No, you don't so sit back and enjoy your big cup of STFU.
@Jason: I completely agree with you, but I'm just warning you. Detox will most likely respond and try to start a flaming Apple hater war with you. His name's actually not Detox, it's Paul Chapel. Just ignore him. He's a complete ignorant Apple fangirlamous.
Holy chit you ignorant ppl. Apple does NOT OWN ALL MULTITOUCH PATENTS!
Get over yourselves...
My guess too is that this is part of patent cross licensing negotions. There's no multitouch phones from Nokia yet so by sueing Apple now than being sued by Apple later they have stronger hand as they don't need that many, or any Apple patents.
Apple on the other hand needs a lot of Nokia patents, and my guess is that Apple lawyers have overestimated the worth of Apple portfolio compared to Nokia portfolio. I'd guess this will be settled out of court in 6 months.
As for the court case this will be intresting. We have 2 companies with a lot of experience with patent cases. Apple will probably countersue, but as said there aren't that many Apple patents Nokia could infringe so it's going to be hard for Apple.
2 years really isn't much in the case of patents. Microsoft just got sued for a product that was much older.
They were probably trying to come to an agreement for the past 2 years and now they are suing them.
Apple does not own the patent on multi touch on a phone it is owned by microsoft I believe
Isn't it a bit late to be crying about this? The technology has been in use for the better part of a decade, by many cell carriers and manufacturers.
I say denied for timeliness.
It all depends on how and if they had negotiations going and/or informed Apple in a timely manner. Just because they are filing a suit now doesn't mean that there isn't a back story and/or background negotiations taking place/fell apart.
" the patents in question have been licensed by some 40 other companies"
"including virtually all the leading mobile device vendors,"
you don't let people steal your IP, you also don't accuse someone of it unless you believe you will win. Hence the 2 years
You're right, if everyone else is licensing this from Nokia for the better part of a decade, why should Apple be required to?
the problem is, they paid for it... apple supposedly didn't ;)
taken from Reuters : "Ten patents in the case -- filed in Delaware, United States -- relate to technologies fundamental for devices using GSM, UMTS and/or local area network (LAN) standards, Nokia said.
The patents cover wireless data, speech coding, security and encryption and are infringed by all Apple iPhone models shipped since the iPhone was introduced in 2007, Nokia said."
So one of the patents may be the Enhanced Full Rate voice codec. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Full_Rate
If that´s the case Apple may have a serious problem.
@ Mitch, who said "You're right, if everyone else is licensing this from Nokia for the better part of a decade, why should Apple be required to?"
Don't you mean "why SHOULDN'T Apple be required to?" Otherwise the sentence doesn't make a lot of sense...
@Alan, you're exactly right, I was just reiterating what the OP said. It makes absolutely no sense at all.
So it took them 2 years to realize that Apple wasn't paying for their licensing? I know that if my place gets burglarized I'm calling the cops immediately. What took them so long?
Probably gave Apple a chance to respond. The didn't.
Boom.
Betcha if the iPhone was a complete financial flop, they wouldn't consider going after them. But now that the tables have turned way into Apple's favor (wasn't AT&T's last quarter like 75% of all activations were iPhones?), anyone from small mom-and-pop shops to big leaguers like Nokia will cry foul anyway they can. Especially if it's later in the game when Apple has raked in hundreds of millions in profit, it's just more for Nokia to go after.
well UMTS is 3G, the iPhone 3G was introduced in '08, if negotiations about license agreement took more than a year and Nokia & Apple couldn't agree about the fee then I can see why it took them this long.
the Wifi thing is a mystery to me...
@BeyondTech:
Well yeah..I mean if you were going with AT&T what phone would you choose? Your statement doesn't really mean anything except that the only reason people are going to AT&T is for the iPhone. What was the number of AT&T activations vs other carriers? That's a statistic that would matter.
Come on... relax on the fanboyism. If another company considers infringing on apples patent you would be screaming.
Nokia - 'OMG were loosing market share! Dig something up too sue one of the new and popular smart phone companies! Pronto!'
Heath - "I have no real concept of what licensing technology means, but I luvs my iPhone, so Nokia's just being spoil sports..."
About time someone called their bluff on those multitouch patents.
ISN'T THAT WHAT PALM DID
They decided since Apple's sold 30+ Million iPhones, now would be a good time to sue (since Apple couldn't come to an agreement on licensing). Why? Because now they can put a figure out exactly "how much" lost revenue is derived from the patent licensing.
Part of the problem with Nokia is proof of use in commerce. They will have to demonstrate to the courts that they have had all of these disputed patents in use, like the iPhone has had. Chances are, this will be settled out of court once the suit produces a damages figure.
You don't sue somebody because your scared of losing market share. You sue because they stole your technology. We all know Apple will sue anybody that makes something that even looks like an apple. What goes around comes around.
HaHa nokia, if they were so greedy they could've had the market share apple took from them. I mean, look at what you were paying for before the iphone came out? they abused their share of the market.
It's called network subsidization. Look it up.
We have a comedian, or a iDiot. iPhone costs more than any Nokia phone.
If you can't innovate, litigate.
Noia can't innovate?
That's an interesting point of view. You might want to do a bit of research and see who made smartphones popular.
Hint: It wasn't Apple.
Apple being the obvious example?
They obviously can't innovate...that's why Apple is using up to 10 of their "innovations" and being sued for it.
lol, totally misread the headline (Apple Nokia), thought the phrase had a nice ring to it.
Just kidding around. Everybody just calm down, you're going to hurt your keyboard typing so hard.
Nokia filling for injunction on iPhone in 3......2.......1.........
I would be skeptical about this, but the fact that 40 other companies have applied for the license is a bit alarming if Apple chose to not worry about it.
"Pay what you owe us for all the years that you "hoed" us. We can talk, but money talks, so talk "mo" bucks.." - Nokia to Apple via Jay Z. :-)
@ward
You mean anyone who uses the word 'multi-touch'?
@Nathan,
No they have a serious problem with NSN. The handset division made over three quarters of a billion Euro profit.
Oh, this is going to be good.
This explains Engadget's bias over Nokia - they've known all along!
If the table were turned, Apple would be going ape so I'm not the least bit upset.
Needless to be saying I will be cheering for Nokia and will be watching this like a hawk
Personally, patent stuff generally annoys the hell out of me, because it's so often abused (as any Engadget reader should know), but from the sounds of it, this may be one of those cases where it actually is a legitimate beef.
All we have right now is Nokia's word, but if everyone else is paying them, it seems pretty rock solid.
My guess is that in the end, Apple will start paying licensing fees before this goes before a judge. It would be the smart thing to do. I'm curious to see the details on the specific patents...
"I'm curious to see the details on the specific patents..."
Patent No. 7,607,171: "A Great Gaming Device."
this will be interesting, now apple on other side...
For the record House doen't use an iPhone. He still uses a crappy clam shell and a pager.
@Scott .. Apple didn't 'steal' Nokia's technology any more than the other 40 companies did. They simply are infringing on Nokia's patents and refusing to pay the license. It's kind of like pirating Windows and then having MS sue you ;)
Well well, now that Apple is actually a known company they're getting sued for everything. Can't wait until they start getting sued for all their integration they do, that'll be the day.
That doesn't even make sense.
Yeah it does. Think about it, if Apple ever got real popular they would basically control everything. And they way they integrate all their products so tightly, sure maybe it makes things work fluidly, but they'd be getting monopolistic lawsuit one after another.
"if Apple ever got real popular"
I didnt know they had internet in Antarctica. New flash - Apple is quite popular here in the rest of the world...
You know...Apple's been pretty popular since the 80's. What rock were you living under?
You two douches know exactly what I mean. Majority market share in computers.
Apple's been popular since the 80's? What newspaper were you reading?
Apple's only still around because Microsoft bailed them out with millions of dollars
"if Apple ever got real popular"
I didnt know they had internet in Antarctica. New flash - Apple is quite popular here in the rest of the world...
If Apple ever got majority share in the way you envisage it, they'd be forced to give it up pretty damn sharpish. Governments are very picky when it comes to potential abuses of monopoly power - hence the fragmentation of Microsoft. So be thankful they are still niche products that can afford to exist in a closed ecosystem.
All the boneheads of the world finally saved up the money to buy an iphone this quarter. Perfect, now all the people who think their shit don't stink because they have an iPhone will finally wake up and buy a phone that isn't a toy. But, hopefully not because then there would be no one to look down on and hate in society.
@Mark .. I know that. But did you not notice the drop in sales ? .. that has nothing to do with NSN. I am not some fanboy just pointing out that Nokia has some real problems and needs to sort its house out ASAP.
Wonder how these "Nokia are greedy" comments would look if Nokia was a US company and Apple was from Finland
My question is, why now?
You don't sue somebody because your scared of losing market share. You sue because they stole your technology. We all know Apple will sue anybody that makes something that even looks like an apple. What goes around comes around.
They are suing a company in Austrailia for having a logo that looks vaguely like a piece of fruit that happens to be an Apple.
Apple fans were telling us how it was to "preserve their trademark and is perfectly acceptable".
Now Nokia...doing the same thing gets blasted by the same folks as being "desperate".
Apple sued the grosser for using an Apple logo form
Nokias marketshare may have shrank, but have you factored in market growth?
It may not be fanboyism but it's surely ignorance. "Directly attributable to the iPhone"? Do you have facts and numbers to back this up? You're sure it was not because of the recession and their Nokia Siemens Networks devision?
@dooze
Apple did not invent or patent multi-touch as a technology - the patented the term to describe it as multi-touch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-touch
Paul, absolutely - the iPhone has had an impact, it would be silly to say it hasn't.
That said, the increase in market share is largely due to the expansion of the US market where Nokia have nothing of note plus their inability to release a compelling flagship - the N96 and N97 are, frankly, shit.
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/10611_Nokia_Q3_2009_results_converge.php
The graph shows the sales volumes. Q4 '07 are N95 sales, Q2 '09 are driven by 5800 sales. Nokia don't have a competitor at the highest end to the iPhone but they still dominate the mid tier and are in pretty good shape.
Apple wants to cut more cost, win more market segment, thats for sure
@Nathan
Understood. Nokia have real problems just now but it's useful to put things in context.
here we go again with the Fanbois..... when will the stupidity stop?
I see Nokia has found a way to be profitable in the smartphone market, sue those with the deepest pockets.
Bam!@# take that apple, some of the shit you've been doing everyone else. How does it feel? still haven't forgiven apple for suing NYC, .....shame on you apple
Shouldn't Nokia have filed in Texas? I thought that's where all the patent judges gathered...
Or maybe Nokia doesn't need Texas, because their case is that solid...
Nokia going down the drain fast. They need any money they can get.
@darkmax:
Do what I do. Completely skip all the `Lowest Ranked` posts and only look at the `Highly Ranked` or `Highest Ranked`. About 90% of the time, those are the ones that make any sense.
The feature is there. Utilize it.
as an American, Nokia can go fook itself.
they sue because they are losing
go apple!
Brainless Republican. Go go drool over Palin.
so much hate... this is going to be awesome!