CE-Oh no he didn't! Part XLV: Symbian's Lee Williams rips into Android, implies Google is evil (video)
By Vlad Savov 
posted October 26th 2009 7:06AM
posted October 26th 2009 7:06AM
"I don't view Apple as evil, they're just greedy... Google, come on! When you have to say in your motto that we're not evil, right away the first question in my mind is, 'why do you have to tell me that?'"All this must be tempered by the knowledge that Android is set to overtake large swathes of the mobile OS space, and some retaliatory trash talking is probably to be expected from the incumbent smartphone leader. Om does ask another sage question, in querying why Williams thinks companies are making such large investments into Android, and you'll find the answer to that and much more in the video past the break.
[Via MobileTechWorld; Thanks, fido]
Read - Lee Williams interview with GigaOM
Read - New York Times: 'Big Cellphone Makers Shifting to Android System'
Read - PCWorld: 'Android, Symbian Will Own Smartphones in 2012'
His work enviroment needs to change, he desirves a quiet working enviroment.
Alll these major companies are competeing so hard for our (yes, us, the consumer) business that they are obiged to sell hard and to exploit every single available niche and toehold in the market place.
All of them are oblighed to behave in a voracious manner because if they do not, then the competition will eat them up. Today there is no room to be nice. They want you money and they will do whatever they have to get it. Microsoft, Google, Apple (my least favorite) and any number of others will all do whatever it takes to succeed.
He needs to do a lot less talking and a lot more working. Symbian is a very distant fourth behind Apple, Google, Windows Mobile and Palm. And without a lot of work they are going to be relegated to being a fringe platform for developers.
Apple has Cocoa developers, Google has Java developers, Windows Mobile has .Net/MFC developers, Palm has web developers. Each of which are massive communities of developers who know the platforms very well know. Symbian has QT/Linux which very few people know.
So yeh he needs to stop bashing his competition and learn/borrow/copy/steal from them as much as possible.
I don't know how you make Symbian as distant to those as like WM it's getting huge overhaul for the Symbian^4 when it goes full Qt.
Thought it does tell something that the number one mobile maker who has been Nokia=Symbian is betting big time with linux with it's Maemo platform that will already get big update in less than a year time with harmattan/maemo 6 and much of it's current platform work seem to be in the linux world. Example shifting much of it workforce to Maemo unit and it's coperation with intel.
Thought i think Symbian still has great things to show with Symbian^4. But for now i wouldn't buy Symbian V5 or Symbian^2. It's Android and Maemo love for me.
Dear god...
Symbian has software houses like Tieto (yeah, yeah, Finns may find this example hilarious :D) aboard. Average person in US has never heard of Tieto or TietoEnator but it is a software company which has about 16000 workers. Apple and Google have both a bit over 20000.
Symbian may not have atm. 30000 fart app developers but they are still backed up by tens or hundreds of huge software companies (Tieto just as a small unknown example) and thousands of smaller firms (and individuals).
And btw. Palm has nobody. Palm is basically dead (like it has been outside US for over ten years). Few HTML + CSS capable Palm fans doesn't change this fact.
"Symbian is a very distant fourth behind Apple, Google, Windows Mobile and Palm."
I'm sorry but that's a ridiculous thing to say.
Are they behind in developers? No. Symbian has the biggest development community of all the operating systems whether you're talking individuals or large companies.
Are they behind in sales? No. Symbian smartphones - including Nokia, Samsung and NTTDoCoMo amongst others - outsell - or just about outsell - the other operating systems you mention combined.
Are they behind in development? No. Not on the OS - what other companies have a published roadmap for the next three iterations of their OS? Maybe Android I suppose.
Are they behind on UI? Possibly. S60 is clunky but it works and since most phone owners have grown up with Nokia phones it's also very familiar. Sure, if you're not used to it you're going to prefer the iPhone or the Hero, but if you are it's not an issue. That said, Nokia will be changing it although don't expect anythging too radical - why would you want to piss off half the phone market who are used to it?
Are they behind on Apps? No on content, yes on delivery. Having squillions of apps just means they're yet to go through a dying off phase. Give me a list of apps in the App store that are consistently selling over an extended period and I'll guarantee you that an equivalent exists on Symbian and WinMo (with the possible exception of some of the games). Then give me the number of apps that aren't selling at all or whose sales are few and far between and I'll guarantee you that's a much bigger number. Delivery isn't good though, I'll give you that.
People need to think, look at sales volumes and trends - and I mean really look, not just pluck figures like 'market share' without understanding regional trends - before they comment.
Aside from the fact that you can't count, you need to check your facts.
Global market share of Smartphone operating systems as of Q2 2009:
1. Symbian 50.3%
2. RIM Blackberry 20.9%
3. Apple iPhone 13.7%
4. Windows Mobile 9%
5. Google Android 2.8%
Palm Pre isn't like web development. It uses HTML+Javascript, but it is more like developing Firefox Extensions. The javascript part is WAY different from what you are used to doing on a website.
The problem is that few people would want to use a service/device/application that didn't collect or store personal information.
A browser that didn't store web history or allowed for personalized bookmarks would quickly become unpopular.
An operating system that didn't allow for personal customization or installation of applications would likely fail.
An E-mail service that didn't store old mail and would not allow for personal contact lists would be considered broken.
A company selling ads on the web that didn't try to focus these ads on individual users would quickly go out of business (lacking efficiency).
A smartphone that didn't learn from its user would not be considered smart.
While there certainly are valid concerns regarding privacy and handling of personal data, the market apparently prefers "cookie-ing".
The guy is right, Google does collect data on people's activities, even if it's abstracted, and they sell that info to make money. The reason so many manufacturer's and vendors are flocking to Google / Android is because Google makes too much money to ignore. They are hoping to leech off some of the money off google's coat tails.
There's evil afoot! EVVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!
JEALOUSY. iphone OS and Android FTW
Too bad the Symbian UI sucks. Fair enough, Android may be evil .. but then the Symbian UI majorly sucks.
They need to hire some high end UI designers. Drop a couple million bucks on it... it'll pay off.
Symbian UI is one hand controller, i.e. is more functional that a cellphone rather than a pocket pc.
Instead, iphone is a pocketpc (or Palm Pilot) plus cellphone functionality. iphone rules for manage your contact,to play some games, to browser and such but it is annoying to answer a simple call or to fast redial when you are in the street.
this guy pfaaaa... bullshit from his mouth.
he speak about ui elements and whatever... but he didn't try to make an "hello word" with android...
MAMMA MIA!
Google is...
Heavily involved in leftist politics
Capable of bending to govt pressure...CHINA!!
Blamed for censoring or tainting search results Obama, Bush and any comments that are not leftist approved
A little too behind the psychotic green movement
So they are evil... unless your a leftist? lol M'kay we get it...
I just read this article at cybernetnews before I got here: http://cybernetnews.com/how-to-stop-google-yahoo-bing-from-tracking-your-clicks/
I try to make myself worthless to Google and Yahoo, or at least worth less, as often as possible. I really like some of the news that Huffington Post aggregates, but they also piss me off enough that I spend the least amount of time and click the fewest links I possibly can while on that site. I know my clicks are worth money and I try my damnedest to not 'pay' a business that I disagree with. I hope everyone takes whatever measures they have available to them to stick it to 'the Man'!!!
As I understand it Google tells *others* not to be evil, doesn't say anything about themselves. Might imply something, though...
Its clever, not evil. So what if we are worth that many dollars to company that at least provides a flexible mobile OS ? So what if we get more user targeted adds, we might just find one of them useful..
Never trust a Man in a Pink shirt.
I agree!
How does Symbian make money?
Yes, Android is Open Source.
No, the "Google Experience" phones are not completely based upon Open Source. This is the issue.
Google puts out an open source OS to gain market share: good plan on their part.
Then Google requires manufacturer's that want to tie into Google to license the "Google Experience" that contains Google proprietary applications that may track more user data (may because I have personally not proved nor disproved this fact).
This is a great strategy for Google to gain market share, get most of you (commenters) to scream Open Source so "Not Evil," and get the steering wheel to direct their ads to you over time, as long as it is on one or more of the 3 screens you are connecting to Google.
Android, the OS, is developed by the Open Handset Alliance, of which Google is the biggest member (by far). Android, the OS, is open source. Gmail, the app, Market, the app, Maps, the app, are not developed by the Open Handset Alliance. They are developed by Google, and they are proprietary. There is no hypocrisy here. The OS is open source, these apps are not. Just like Windows is not open source, but there are open source apps available for it. And Ubuntu IS open source, but you can get not-open stuff for it too (like Adobe Flash).
Google doesn't force carriers to license the "Google Experience". They can choose to create phones with the free Android operating system. But of course it would be crazy for them to include a phone without the Android market (even though they could always just create their own market).
There is nothing unusual, or evil, about a company giving some products away for free and charging for others. It's actually very normal.
Evil or not, at least Google made a product that people want to use. Your smack talk will fall on deaf ears until the Symbian Foundation can release a product that manages to be relevant in the modern market.
I'd like to remind the man who works in kitchen with lots of noise about Symbian Signed.
That is all.
Okay, the nokia rant above has a problem with google profiting from users... while they rant, they are using an ad-supported website, and so are you, when you read engadget. How evil. Giving you a free service and making their living (and your stock value) by showing you ads by paying companies. wow.
You know, he talks a lot for a company who takes FOREVER to release new updates and what happened to symbian open source?? Didn't they announce that two years ago? Where is it?
Right here...
http://developer.symbian.org/main/source/index.php
oh thanks for the source code that helps alot /s
Telecoms don't seem to get it, the cellphone is on the way to becoming a commodity, just like the PC. Nobody cares/wants operator branding. The fight now is on who's going to be the mobile "Windows" controlling most of the market. Right now there's too much fragmentation with too many mobile OSes. Some will inevitably die for the simple fact that developers want to focus their resources on targeting a small number of systems that yield the maximum share of the market.
What he forgot to mention that symbian ist the OS with the greatest cost for devs to publish an app. And they've been around forever but haven't managed to provide such user functionality as Android and iPhone OS.
And lets face it, Android hasn't been out for a year now and its already better than Symbian. Its easy to be market leader with no competition around. Windows Mobile and iphone OS really don't count as competition...the first is horrible, the latter only available on the most overpriced phone around. (Really...how can you be so cheap as to include a 3MP camera with no zoom on a 600 Euro phone?!?!?!).
Now that they've got serious competition and all the major players are looking to use Android what is the mature answer....yeah, right...mudslinging.
"All this must be tempered by the knowledge that Android is set to overtake large swathes of the mobile OS space"
There is no reason to think that yet let alone know it.
Symbian, up until last year, wasn't open source, and this little rant sounds like an elitist European thing.
Lee Williams is from California.
No wonder he's mad. Symbian is crap.
Nokia makes some good handsets but they do a really poor job marketing their products. I was curious as to what "Symbian" looks like. I went to wikipedia, no pictures. I went to Google Images, nothing useful there. I went to the symbian website. Nothing. Then I do a little more research and it looks like... there is no singular UI for symbian? is that even right? I don't get it.
And why is it that when I go to a T-Mobile store or a Sprint store (the two carriers who i've been a customer with), I don't see any high-end Nokia smartphones for sale? Does Nokia sell these exclusively unlocked? As a consumer, it seems like too much work to even learn about Nokia's products.
This Mr. Williams guy is really cute
Wait, Symbian guy says Android is hard to program for?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
dear Lee,
while not altogether horrible for just getting the job done, your OS is pretty...pretty rancid. WM has 6.5 and 7 in the pipeline.
what do you have?
You are all forgetting one Big little picture in all of them companies, "the big G" the government controls each companies either directly or indirectly. Now to whatever his name is, if Google was evil, well they will block every search or mention of Symbian in any search we make on Google.com. Symbian has the biggest market share so therefore has the largest amount of consumers to cater to and hundreds if not thousands of phones out there which they have to develop for. Apple and Google take a simple approach, build a common OS and every phone they make will work on it, much like computers. And to all, money is the root of all Evil. You would be surprised what people will be willing to do for money.
why are you/he so much concerned that a company (google) is making money! is it a sin.... if you don't want to use their product, dont use it! just because you are stupid & couldn't figure out a way to make money where customer gets everything for free.... doesn't give you any moral high ground!
damn you Google for giving everything for free!
damn you Google for being awesome!
Nokia lost the plot with Symbian as anyone with one of their bricks will agree.
Both Apple and Google have shown the way forward and Symbian can add as many layers to its' out of date OS as they like, they'll still get wasted by Google.
My Android phone absolutely destroys my previous N95 and N80. Never will I go back to a Nokia - too many freezes and reboots required. Too many hours wasted trying to figure out how to change the simplest of settings. Not enough decent apps.
Enough said!
I like my Android phone....so there
If he is worried Google is going to take over the mobile OS business then perhaps folks like him should get off their ass and bring us something better! That or shut the fuck up and get the fuck off my internets!
But if Google (or a former employee?) isn't that sweet anymore and decides it's time te be evil? All your base are belong to them. They know everything. They've got your data. Tell people something's for free and they're willing to even give you their creditcard numbers.
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All hell would've broken loose if we'd be talking Microsoft in exact the same position.
Nobody is evil.
But the combo Google android + Apple iPhone's success has surely damaged the open source potential of mobile OS.
Think about it : google came with its "we are gonna make a Opensource Free OS based on Linux" bullshit and I was (as many many others) thrilled by such a good news back in 2007.
In the mean time Apple demonstrated that there was no need for Opensource nor free apps nor any control of the user over the platform he uses whatsoever (simply because apparently US customers are OK with the idea that they have to JAILBREAK their own phone to actually do what they want with it...)
And that's how Google decided to change its policy from a great one to a very dangerous one, because in the end the enthusiasm for Android (in it's first form) KILLED most of the other Opensource Mobile OS project (LiMo and such which are just invisible right now...)
All my Hopes now lie in Maemo. (and Moblin which will ultimately come to Smartphone)
I call butthurt. Symbian has market share because they were one of the first. No other reason. Not the interface, not the usability, no other reason. Symbian cannot be identified due to its inconsistency. Users are LOOKING for an experience. iPhoneOS, WinMo(ugh) and Android provide that; an experience consistent with a recognizable brand. Lee's talk smacks of a whiny, petulant child who isn't used to being told "no". And rightly so as until quite recently, no one was around to do so. Now there is, and he's scared that the glacier-slow development cycle of Symbian won't be able to keep up. And that is true. They have to learn how to compete, or they will lose. Symbian will lose market share ten to twenty percent a year until they wise up, or they are excised from the market. Simple as that.