Zune HD stops syncing playcounts with nary a firmware fix in sight
By Joseph L. Flatley 
posted Oct 27th 2009 12:06PM
posted Oct 27th 2009 12:06PM
This isn't exactly the same magnitude as last year's Z2K scare, but it's still an all-around bummer for all you Zune nuts. According to a spate of complaints posted to the Zune.net forums as of late, certain Zune HD units are not syncing their playcounts properly with the user's PC and Zune Social accounts. To be a little more specific, it seems that if you let a song play through on the device it will not be counted as played -- but if you skip to another tune before it has a chance to complete (but after 20 seconds or so), the play will be counted. A real pain, right? Of course, this is not only bad news for obsessive list keepers, but for Zune Social fans as well: if your listening habits aren't being properly tabulated, how are you supposed to make new friends and discover new music? Certainly not by going to noisy rock clubs and talking to people! Apparently a Microsoft Zune support team member has acknowledged the issue, but the company has made no statement relating to the bug -- or possible firmware fix -- as of yet. We'll keep you posted.
[Thanks, Jon]
[Thanks, Jon]
Of course it'll be fixed in the next firmware. Why is Engadget making it sound like Microsoft will never fix it?
Because Engadget in an Apple fanboi !
Joseph meant it in a sarcastic way is all. Though sometimes here on the site it can be hard to tell when they are being serious..
Where did you read anything that suggested that Microsoft would never fix the issue. They clearly said that Microsoft acknowledged the problem and that as of yet no announcement has been made as to when the firmware fix will be available or what the cause was. I fail to see what could be perceived as bias or intent to discredit Microsoft in any way in the article. It gives a good explanation of the problem with no remarks other than to point out that one of the hyped functions of the player can't be working very well if is not working on the music you actually listen to and working on songs you sample and then skip on. Actually it would make your listening habits seem the complete opposite of your actual habits.
He could've been talking about the fact that on the zune "site" there isn't a fix yet... heh.
There is room for doubt because in the past there have been firmware issues that have gone unresolved. Actually, there are some (like video description scrolling bug) that remain unfixed for the non-HD Zune devices for 2 years.
Well can they fix the issue I posted below too? It's been a bug for much longer than the Zune HD's release.
"how are you supposed to make new friends and discover new music?"
OMG, my world has collapse!
Yes Joseph, let's bash Microsoft!
@tiago:
It was a joke. Lighten up.
You lot need to get of your Engadget Apple bias Soap box.
It has been about 2 weeks since Microsoft acknowledged there is a problem...........
I'm actually glad Engadget brought this up...
Someone needs to pressure them..
Joseph Flatley is right! This is the end of Microsoft!!!!1
I bought a Zune HD on launch day and i've owned a zune16
and the Zune play count is the biggest failure by Microsoft
M/S JUST ADDED A WHOLE NEW LEVEL OF DICK MEASURING TO MUSIC
seriously the play count doesn't effect any other part of the zune software, it'll get fixed eventually
if people are complaining that they cant meet new people through zune social, they should GTFO and go outside that how i meet people.
this is the biggest none issue in zune history
@dennisheadley: "Where did you read anything that suggested that Microsoft would never fix the issue."
The implication is in the title of this post: "...nary a firmware fix in sight"
Yeah - I'm struggling with this news. This is the biggest problem with the Zune? I have one and didn't even notice. Sure it's a bummer for some folks but most people won't even notice.
who cares with play count, are you listning to songs or playing songs for counting them....lol
OH NOOOOO!!! NOT THE PLAY COUNT FUNCTION!!!!!!
what are we to dooooooo?!??!!!!
Good thing I own an iPod touch. Apple never leaves a broken.... oh wait.
I think you might sight*
This is an old issue as it has happened on the Z30. It is mainly due to some incorrect/wierd MP3 tags that causes the playcount sync to fail between Zune and PC. Easy fix is to to try to connect to Marketplace from device via wifi and verify that playcount has been updated.
Not in this case. This is not related to mistagged tracks. This has been confirmed (by Microsoft) to happen with tracks that are correctly tagged.
There's also another issue of Multi-Disc albums not being categorized correctly on the Zunes themselves. It's sorted just fine on the software but on the units themselves, the device ignores the disc number altogether; resulting in the categorization of track 1, track 1, track 2, track 2, etc. This has been around in all zunes for at least two years and is seriously annoying.
"...how are you supposed to make new friends and discover new music?"
I'm finding myself deleting my Zune Friends to make room for the 360 ones....Damn you MS for your minuscule 100 friend count limit....
Yes, I own an iPod.
No, I don't sync with iTunes.
Yes, it wipes my "playcount."
But, whatever... My self-esteem is not linked to the total number of tracks/songs I've heard on my PMP.
This is a story?
I didn't care about this feature until this very moment.
Fix it! Fix it! Fix it! Fix it! Fix it! Fix it! Fix it! Fix it! Fix it!
Haha, this is the least of the zune problems, the 3.2 Update caused my 120GB Zune to fail, and then they couldn't repair(or in their case replace) my zune, so they shipped it back, its been nearly two months, one complaint to the BBB and one email to the Balmer himself and no action as of yet. FIX THE DAMN FIRMWARES AND YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE before you decide to fix the oh so deadly play count failure. Thanks, Microsoft, I once had so much hope for you. Looks like android is gonna get its chance with me after all, Apple is too needy a bitch for me.
How are Steve Balmer and the BBB going to fix your Zune? You did those out of spite and shouldn't expect a resolution from either of those companies. If you want to fix your Zune, contact and pay for your out of warranty repair.
I don't recall thousands of Zune 120's getting bricked by a firmware update. It sounds like the firmware update failure was the symptom that something was already bad inside your unit.
Consumer electronics have warranties. When your warranty expires, don't act like you didn't know there was a time limit.
I had a slight problem with my original Zune 30 (it would turn off occassionally during exercising). One phone call and I had an RMA set-up. Took about 2 weeks but I received another Zune back. The process could not have been simpler. Easily one of the best RMA experiences I have ever had.
If I'm not mistaken...I believe all Zunes come w/ a 1 year warranty. The Zune 120 was released on September 16, 2008. I remeber this because I had to brave Hurricane Ike to get mine! You say 2 months ago, but there's no way it wasn't under warranty still. So either you are not telling us that you voided your warranty (which could be the reason of yours bricking) or your timeline's off. Which is it?
Um - this is a story?
Of course.. it's been quite difficult to find something negative about the Zune, except for the lack of an SDK... at LAST something SERIOUS to attack it with.
Microsoft not announcing a date for a fix. Why am I not surprised?
Yes, please, share why you're not surprised Microsoft hasn't given a date.. I want to see the list of things.
Or better yet, please give me a list of reasons why Apple doesn't give release dates on their products...
If I had to guess, I would say because it's a pissy little hiccup in the multitude of software their developers are working on? Sound reasonable?
@Sentax
"please give me a list of reasons why Apple doesn't give release dates on their products..."
What do product releases have to do with bugfixes?
@NOCknock
"If I had to guess, I would say because it's a pissy little hiccup in the multitude of software their developers are working on? Sound reasonable?"
To quote yourself... Same ol' reason,form over functionality.
@BillG
"What do product releases have to do with bugfixes?"
Nothing, just comparing how hard it is to list reasons for both.
@BillG....you're comparing apples to oranges. A minor glitch that's fixable in a future firmware update is not the same as a piece of hardware that's physically lacking. People who spend the time to dig into someone else's past posts to find something to attack them with always amuse me.
@NOCknock
Not much time was spent, I assure you. People who spout form over function randomly in various Apple product posts amuse me. Especially those who have never used one.
1. Exchange 2007's backup feature. Never announced a specific time, just put it in SP2 eventually.
2. Digital Cable Tuner compatibility in Windows 7. Supposed to be Oct 22, not there, no date announced.
There's your list, prick. Seems to me there is a pattern developing here.
Its true, there hasn't been a press release, but the Zune Insider talked about this in show # 42 around 24 minutes 40 seconds.
Basically they say the Zune team knows about this and considers it a big deal and is working on it. They talked about how it IS a big deal to release new firmware and I took it as they don't want to release a patch just for a playcount fix, but it will be fixed in the next big firmware release which we all know is coming this November, so probably a few weeks.
Wow, this is a total non-issue if I've ever seen one. Does this prevent the Zune HD in any way from doing what it's supposed to, which is playing music and movies? No. Do people really care about having the play count accurate? I've got a Zune HD and if Microsoft never fixes this problem I really don't care.
I agree with you good sir.
I didn't care about play counts before, and I doubt I'm going to start caring now.
*goes back to listening to the sounds coming out of that sweet sounds coming out of his tegra infused goodness*
I completely disagree with you. This is a big deal.
Zune's social features rely on playcount to function at all. If you don't use the social features then hey good for you, but I do and it sucks. Let me explain why:
With proper playcounts, Zune social is able to show the top listeners to bands. Bands which may be your or my favorite band. It's cool to be able to see top listeners for that band and then see what else those top listeners are listening too. This is how I've discovered what are now some of my favorite bands!
So without proper playcount, this feature is completely broken. Also any music recommendations from Zune will be flawed without accurate playcount.
Also all of my Auto-playlist that I created based on playcount are useless. For example, I have a auto-playlist that is for songs played less than 1 time. This is an easy way for me to listen to tracks on my Zune that I've failed to listen to yet. Non Zune Pass users might not understand this, but with Zune pass you are exposed to and download tons of music just because you can with Zune Pass. So it's easy for all that new music to be lost in the fray. Auto-Playlists is the way I use to find some of that stuff and make sure I actually get to listen to this new music I've downloaded.
So all of these things are completely broken if an accurate playcount is not being taken. And let me tell you it has been annoying as hell and has really detracted from my experience with the Zune HD. This has taken away features that I have made great use of in the past and I'm not happy that their gone now and that MS has sat on their ass for 1 month and not fixed it yet!
I totally thing this is a big deal.
I agree with Bobo. I use the Zune Pass to it's fullest and think the playcounts are important. I also just like knowing how much I listen to. It's not the most important thing but it's cool to just know. I just wish they would do like last.fm and show everything. I know they have it!
I have to agree that the play count has not interfered with my usage and enjoyment of the Zune HD at all.
OK, you know Engadget's web site is screwed up when an author for the site can't get his own comments to post to the right place (by what you wrote, it sounds like you are responding to someone in particular).
People have been complaining about this for years, with nary a software fix in sight.
This is a story becuase MS released the Dam Zune HD and went into hidding. All the Zune owners have heard nothing about anything new on the Zune which as is is basicly a touch first gen unit. Yeah I know there is a planned november update but how about some dam news. No video playlist very poor video (TV Shows and Movies) selection. And you can not even add digtal copies from movies you buy that have them.
Maybe MS should have held off releaseing the thing until november as it the unit is just nice eye candy.
It hasn't been out that long. Zune HD and Zune 4.0 were huge releases. What more do you expect them to do in such a short amount of time?
I'm pretty happy with my Zune HD as it is. If they can do anything to make it better that would be great, but why complain about the best PMP on the market?
I'm glad they got it out before the November update. That way it can be out in the while for a while, they can catch things like this, fix it and by the time all the good stuff comes out (apps, more movies and tv shows) there won't be a lot of bugs crawling around.
I've seen all the TV shows in the marketplace when they were updating the site for 4.0. They took them down by the time they finished I assume they are setting them up for the Nov update since anything you buy will available on Zune and Xbox.
on that note - why dont my play counts transfer when I copy my iPod songs to my new OS install? Oh wait - i'm not "allowed" to copy those songs over. I only paid $1 for each of them.. Oh, and where was the outrage for the "awesome deal" of Apple "letting" me pay ANOTHER 30cents per freaking song to get unabashed access to something they convinced me I already own? That right there should have led to the masses calling for Apple's head.
yeah ok - just make sure you update to Snow Leopard and use your guest account for all your iPod syncing... oh wait - that would awaken the bug that deletes all of your songs...That's ok - I can just recover songs from my ipo... oh sh*t, they blocked that too... Good thing I got that iPod - at least it keeps my playcount.
OMG that guest account "joke" is getting so old. I mean please move on. He says he's going to buy an iPod so you attack snow leapord? how does that make sense in your head? Yes Snow Leapord has bugs, but what does that have anything to do with this post. This post is about a Zune problem, and you make it about Apple's problem. You have issues. I wish Apple would have another problem so people would have something else to bash Apple with. Apple has a Guest Account problem, and that is the only argument and complaint you can really talk about because that's Apple's only problem with their any of their products as of right now.
well...@ least he can spell Leopard...
lol Damn you. I got my G.E.D. (Good Enough Diploma) and thats all i care about.
ah - figures
Meanwhile I'm too busy working on my M.S. B.M.E. research to respond to your MS flame...
The comment system flaws are the engadget "signature", kinda like Madonna's gap tooth smile...and just as pretty. :)
@ derrik
Ok, now lets have a quick look at this with our reality goggles on...
Mr. Evans here starts his comment with: "Seems like every time Microsoft has a new product it is loaded with bugs."
and ends it with: "So how do you solve the problem??? Get an iPod."
I proceeded to respond in kind, then you came along and said: "Yes Snow Leapord has bugs, but what does that have anything to do with this post."
And here I am, pointing out the painfully obvious fact that I'm responding to Mr. Evan's initial MS flame and generalizations. As for the Guest issue being Apple's "only problem" is so hilarious that I'll just assume this is the first Engadget post you've read this decade. Go snuggle with your iPhone and Macbook, At least they'll keep your warm. (burn you?)
That's too bad for all 3 people who bought a Zune HD. They sold a few to the gullible when they first came out but already they can't give them away. Too many potential buyers have the capability to understand what a limited device this is.
You're going to get voted down by the 4th and 5th ZuneHD owners who frequent this site every day. Watch.
Don't own an iPhone, but yes go ahead and make your assumptions because I defend Apple. Sorry I forgot if you don't hate Apple than you're a fanboy. And if you don't love Microsoft that you're a noob. I forgot the logic used in the c-section.
Loaded with bugs? What bugs? The Zune 30 had that New Years leap year bug that fixed itself, the Zune HD has the show stopping not synching playcount bug, what's up with your Zune 120?
If you weren't so eager to attack Apple, you would know that the bug is very isolated, and doesn't delete anything. Around six simple lines of text typed into the command line and everything is back to normal. I could really care less about your choice of software or PMP, but apparently you are unable to accept that anything other than your preference is acceptable.
"People have been complaining about this for years, with nary a software fix in sight."
Oh, SNAP!
@ Phenoum Xbox 360 failure rate 27.4% failure rate to 54% failure rate... hmmm. Bing - total fail. According to the Windows fanboy's, Apple only has 10% of the computer market so they are a failure. Bing makes up 9.6% of all searches on the web, so I guess Bing is a failure. MP3 Market Share says the Zune is at 4%, so mark that up as another failure. Phone OS - Windows Mobile = 9% market share. Welp looks like we got another failure.
@dennisheadley: "Where did you read anything that suggested that Microsoft would never fix the issue."
The implication is in the title of this post: "...nary a firmware fix in sight"
I hate this comment system.
@Dave: Me, too.
So now we're "nuts"? Hmph.
Broken Zunes? Nothing is broken. They work fine. The play count doesn't keep perfect record, but so what. If that is the biggest problem/complaint Zune HD has had so far (from what I've read) then this just shows that the Zune HD is a truly awesome PMP.
I honestly don't think anyone gives a damn about Zune Social. I mean I have the little zune card on my myspace, and I guess that's pretty cool but seriously who cares? It didn't even work on my zune 80 back in the day, so why call it out engadget?
People forget that this is a FIRST GENERATION Zune HD and it will have hardware/software glitches just like Apple had. Improvements are learned from mistakes from earlier models and customer feedback - good and bad.
Well MS should learn from Apple's mistakes also. Why would you relaease an mp3 player that is 2 gen behind what it is trying to compete with. There is only one reason to do this so MS can put out a gen 2 then a gen 3 getting people to buy the same unit over and over again.
MS should have made the Zune HD at least able to do all the 2nd gen touch can do and maybe a few things it can not do. That is how you take market share away form the leader.
@Rudy: "Why would you relaease an mp3 player that is 2 gen behind what it is trying to compete with."
Sound quality is better, image quality is better thanks to the OLED screen, more processors, better graphics capabilities, better sound quality, touch interface is smoother, the accelerometer is more responsive and it's got an HD radio. How do you figure it's a generation behind?
The worst part is that its less of a bug and more of a design choice to prevent inflated listening numbers. I just cannot fathom why any zune owner would be perturbed by this. Oh wait, this is a flame war article so the iFreaks can have a jab at my perfect PMP.
"Xbox 360 failure rate 27.4% failure rate to 54% failure rate... hmmm."
Can't argue too much there, that really is a big problem.
"Bing - total fail. According to the Windows fanboy's, Apple only has 10% of the computer market so they are a failure. Bing makes up 9.6% of all searches on the web, so I guess Bing is a failure."
No, Bing is NEW. Like any new product it takes time to really see what happens. If you look at the numbers, Bing has seen steady gains in market share since it was introduced while Google has actually lost some ground. And with Bing set to power all Yahoo! searches soon that will give Bing around 25-30% of the search market. Far from failure. ...and Bing is still growing.
"MP3 Market Share says the Zune is at 4%, so mark that up as another failure."
The original series of Zunes, though really good, never gained solid traction. So, yeah I would chalk up the orignal Zunes as a failure in terms of stealing the market from Apple. We'll see what happens going forward with the Zune HD (especially since MS is finally starting to show initial signs of a fully integrated product offering) Do I expect the Zune HD to conquer the market singlehandedly? No, but if you can't admit that it is an extremely attractive alternative to anything iPod there is no point in further discussing this with you.
"Phone OS - Windows Mobile = 9% market share. Welp looks like we got another failure."
You really should mark that as WinMo 6 market share. Microsoft was negligent to leave WinMo to the side for so very, very long while Apple and RIM swept in and took the phone OS market. Though WinMo 6.5 is a definite improvement, it is still lacking. However, everything regarding WinMo 7 seems to point towards it as being a game changer, much like Win7. Only time will tell.
Stupid comment system... That was directed at derrick. Sorry about that.
as for the xbox failure rate, MS is honoring their warranties in most cases, and the new processors have almost a perfect record.
More apps please.
Been hearing lots of complaints regarding the Zune HD lately. Frozen screen of death, severe lack of apps, screen sucks when outside, damaged Zunes due to crappy packaging, etc. Now this...
No wonder the Walkman, Sansa, clip and even Coby MP3 players are outselling the cheapest Zune HD...
zune hd users don't have any friends, that's why they're zune hd users
Oh SNAP!!
why is it that when apple can't implement a feature right it bragged about ( using iMac as moniter), it's O.K., but when a zune doesn't record the number of times you played a song in a device, it's a big deal?
If this article was in sarcasm (sometimes i can't tell), then i apologize.
the iMac's screen-as-monitor feature works perfectly fine between DisplayPort devices.
It was not designed to work for DVI nor VGA input.
This the evolution of video technology:
1) VGA - very old (analog)
2) DVI - newer (digital)
3) DisplayPort - newest (digital) http://www.displayport.org/
Gapless playback also is not working properly. I have been testing out the new Zune software, and hope to get a Zune HD, but have noticed that a disc I ripped from a gapless download from iTunes (yes, it's gapless on iTunes & on Windows Media Player) but when I played the file, and then the disk with the new Zune software, there is a 2 second gap.
I have been an iPod owner for several years, but have been following the Zune for some time. If the Zune can promise true gapless playback, I'll drop the iPod like a bad habit. I have several classic live recordings that would be destroyed by the 2 second gap. Have you ever listened to the classic Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band with a two second gap between each song? It truly destroys the experience.
All I'm saying is Microsoft came out with the Zune HD, and Zune 4.0 software. Now my 120gb will not even connect with my computer. I can't login to the Zune program using Zune software or Zune.net. I spend 4 hours of my day on the phone with Microsoft being transfered at least 5 or 6 times, to get nothing but, "Start a new account. Then your Zune will work." I lose all my money, all my songs and they say sorry we can't transfer your purchases or money to another account. All the while my iPod is still trucking strong with no problems.
lol why does every Microsoft article have to become and anti-Apple flame war. People... just breathe. This is a problem on the Zune. There is no fix right now. Would you prefer Engadget starts sugar coating everything:
"We are absolutely certain a fix is imminent because kittens like firmware fixes :D "
the MS fanboys suffer from a severe self-esteem problem and the only way they can make themselves feel better is by pretending that iPods are awful things, just like Zunes really are.
iPods aren't awful. iTunes is.
Don't you think the picture is a bit extreme to represent this "problem"?
Robert, you're the one looking like a douche with that comment. Troll.
Oh noez! Now little girls won't know how many times they've listened to the Jonas Brothers!!
This is the kind of "story" that just makes me scratch my head.
Oh noes, a feature 99% of people never even imagined they might need isn't working properly!
SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING.
I just love all the MS / Zune fans here that can't help but defend against any failure that's been reported. The fact is it's happening & shouldn't, period. This is just the first of many issues I'm sure that will surface. I can't wait till these Zune's get some use under its belt & we start to read about how their Zune just died, like their Xbox did. MS is not a hardware company & I can't trust that anything they build will ever have the expected longevity.
A lot of you folks really need to relax. If you get this worked up over people's opinions of devices that didn't exist a few years ago and that will be outdated in a couple of years and forgotten in a few decades, how do you cope with real problems without your heads exploding?
FYI -- I use a Zune 120 for music and an iPod Touch as an internet and game device. My wife loves her Zune HD on which we share a Zune Pass and my daughter really likes her iPod Nano. None of which should be taken as a personal attack on anyone.
you mean the new Zune HD has glitches? i thought only the old Zune had glitches? actually, I thought only iPods had glitches?!? WHAT THE FUUUU?!! *world implodes*
Far from an Apple fanboy site, they kick Apple in the nuts in every article and yet, they don't say anything about MSFT when their crap breaks. This is a windows fan boy site by far.
This isn't about Apple versus Microsoft. This is about Microsoft responding to customer complaints about ZuneHD's play-count problem in a timely manner.
ZuneHD's play-count issue is one of the least of its problems.
How about the extremely short battery life.
How about critical syncing problems with the device.
How about problems supporting WiFi connectivity.
How about critical problems with the web browser.
How about the degree of OLED screen failure rates.
How about the poor visibility of the OLED screen in direct sunlight.
How about the poor video after conversion and lack of popular codec support.
How about no apps.
How about the fact that ZuneHD software doesn't work with 64bit XP.
How about a lack of any firmware updates.
How about silence from the ZuneHD support team.
How about the fact that HD radio doesn't work for everyone.
http://forums.zune.net/537216/ShowPost.aspx
New Zune HD 4.3 Firmware is out. Issue is fixed along with many other improvements to the Zune HD, including web browser speed. (Epsecially on Engadget) :)