Nintendo profits sink on declining console sales, weak game selection
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Oct 29th 2009 6:18AM
posted Oct 29th 2009 6:18AM
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Hi there, did someone call for a plumber? I'm here to lay some pipe.
Keith. You bad man!
;-)
dont u just love Ron Jeremy as mario? :P
I loved Captain Lou as Mario just a bit more.
Is that the poster for a new adult Mario game
Yes, Ron Jeremy has a giant pipe cleaner. They have pipe cleaning parties, I hear.
hooyah. Super Hornio Bros.! Available at your local bittorrent tracker.
Why a hot girl would ever let that nasty old man touch her, is beyond me. Don't fall for his mustache, Princess Peach.
Two inches of pipe that leaks isn't going to help much.
Nintendo adds a larger display and a bigger stylus to the DS and thinks it's going to make a huge difference in sales. If people can't instantly download software to their devices, forget it. Old tech is going down the tubes. No WiFi or browsing capabilities, forget it. Nintendo is spitting into a gale force wind and will only get their faces plastered with their own saliva. They should have just kept the same size device and added WiFi and downloadable games or better yet stand pat on the mobile devices and do more development on the Wii platform.
so now can we expect to see the Nintendo DP and DPi?
AWB: The DSi has all of those things you described. Yeesh.
Their next console should totally be called Super Wii. That would fix everything.
You know the solution, Nintendo: give us Other M.
Yes, as in other Mario games, for Christ's sake. Remember when Nintendo actually used to give more attention to their core franchises? Oh, and yes, more Metroid please.
Or, better yet, give us a system with some decent software support. The last time they got that right was with the super nintendo (not counting handhelds). I'm tired of dust collectors.
I think he means the Mother series.
The solution is some REAL games. I was at Best Buy (yuck) yesterday and walked through the Wii section. It was pretty big, but every single game was family fun this and my pet horse that. The controller is BEGGING for more good first person shooters.
Super Mario Galaxy 2? YEAHHHhhhh
How hard would it be to simply refresh the hardware, and maintain compatability with Wii/Gamecube games, as well as Wiimotes. Then they could release some dazzling HD games, but any current Wii owners who are uninterested could ignore the upgrade altogether. A whole new system that would force people to buy hundreds of dollars worth of new controllers and peripherals would upset consumers, but a simple drop in console upgrade (aka some kinda Wii HD) could be a nice option.
Btw, can anyone recommend to me a good single player xbox game with a good story? Preferrably not an FPS? Played an hour of Halo ODST, and I couldn't take it anymore, seems so slow.
Other M is the tentative title of the next Metroid series game, you guys. Honestly, I've had enough Mario, and I've never played Mother/Earthbound.
I see this as a good thing. The bubble certainly hasn't burst its just getting a little slow. Might actually kick them into pulling their finger out and start spending that countries worth of cash on making us some games!
Here is the problem with that though, it would be a case of too little, too late.
Nintendo has spent the past two years on Wii, ignoring the core gaming demo. Even if today's low numbers were to spur Nintendo into a flurry of making games that appeal to core gamers, you are still looking at another 18 to 24 months of game development, before we'd see fruition of those new efforts. So we would be talking about halfway into 2011, before a slew of core gamer-centric titles would hit the system.
Meanwhile, with absense of core games from the system for such and extended period of time, the system has become so associated with the casual gaming demo, that no one even buys any of the core games which are beginning to surface on the system. So core games like Dead Space: Extraction, No More Heroes, MadWorld, etc. that developers were willing to take a risk and bring out on the Wii, simply are not selling. It's a story very similar to GTA: China Town Wars on the DS, franchising that otherwise would sell millions of copies, are barely making it to the 100,000 unit sold mark. So if it's a core game and does not have Mario or Sonic or Metroid in the name of the title, then it simply is not selling squat on Wii. And that is now, after two years of abandonment for the core game by Nintendo. Waiting another 18 to 24 months for Nintendo to look at today's dismal numbers, and then attempt to turn that around by finally introducing a slew of core-centric games, is just too long down the pipe to do any good for the system. So they'll put out another Mario and Zelda and Metroid, and those games will sell phenomenally, but nothing else on the system will . . . especially now that the casual demographic who are only averaging two or three games/year per person in the first place, is finally tapering off as they reach their saturation point.
More than likely Nintendo is not going to even bother improving it software lineup on Wii for the remainder of this generation. We all know Nintendo makes money on the hardware and is more than happy to just continue making profit from hardware as their main source of profit, so Nintendo is likely to pull a page from Apple's play book, and just introduce a new Wii next year - likely the oft rumored Wii HD, and start the cycle of casual gamers buying up loads of hardware all over again. Nintendo does not strike me as a game company too concerned about satisfying it's long term, core demographic, so outside of the next Mario and Zelda titles (Mario HD and Zelda HD), support for core games aimed at the core demographic following the launch of Wii HD, is going to be pretty much what it is now - non-existent. And the numbers (Nintendo's profitability) support that thesis. Notice how as hardware sells numbers drop, so does Nintendo's profits? While old Nintendo's (NES - GCN) profits were significantly tied to the success of software sells on their platform, new Nintendo (Wii/DS) profits are tied to the success of their hardware. So hardware sells good, and profits are good for Nintendo; hardware sells bad, profits are bad for Nintendo. So the obvious next move for the company is a new version of Wii hardware, they can trick the casual gaming crowd to buy into, most likely launching in Japan next spring, and Nintendo profits will go back up through the roof, if they can successfully lure the same people who already own a Wii, to buy a new Wii again next year.
Apple computers does this all the time, and is highly successful at it - just look at the iPhone 3G and 3GS. A considerable number of punters lining up to get one, already owned an older model of iPhone. And even with DS, Nintendo has proven resilient in this manner. Most punters who lined up for DSL and DSi, owned an older version of the DS, and simply were suckered into buying a newer version of the same hardware with minimal upgrades over the existing version.
So no, don't expect to see Nintendo make a turnaround on their software commitment to the core gamer anytime ever this generation - or maybe ever again, for that matter. So long as they are making profit on the hardware, and can keep casual punters re-buying the same hardware over and over and over again, Nintendo is in the enviable position that they never have to invest deep pockets ever again in developing the engaging type of software that typically appeals to the core gaming mindset. It is a sad, sad reality, but sadly, it is reality all the same.
^^ What the Invader said.
Zomg wall of text!!!
The tech gods spoke and invader wrote...
Even if your a rabid fanboy you have to agree with what he said there. It's nothing but truth...
Not wall of text....
Wall of truth.
Get rid of enough lazy to at least SKIM what he wrote and you'll learn something.
Excellent job, Invader.
I fell asleep before the end.
damn you really thought that out invader
thing is, your 100% right
"It is a sad, sad reality, but sadly, it is reality all the same."
nice quote, gonna have to remember that one :P
Actually I find one problem with Invaders theory.
We have no real data (someone might) that casual gamers will even buy into a 2nd gen of the Wii. I'm going to guess when the Wii2 comes out, Nintendo will have to keep supporting the Wii because there will be many who won't buy the next one for a while. It hasn't even been 3 years since launch.
Your comparison to Apple has it's flaws because Apple has a rabid following(Sure Nintendo does too, but those aren't casual gamers.), but I'm going to guess where Apple has the most market penetration (iPods), there aren't a whole lot of people who buy a new one every year (I could be wrong on how many people are that stupid).
@Invader
you should go write a book about Nintendo... that's too much for a comment.
@ Nin
That's the thing. Nintendo is not bringing out Wii 2 next year. Wii 2 would be an entire new system, that may or may not be B/C with the current machine.
What Nintendo is likely bringing out in 2010 (and again on my part, this is supposition, but supposition based on watching Nintendo's recent track record), is an updated version of the same old Wii that is already out. So say they add maybe a small HDD for streaming online content (movies, TV, music, etc.) from a Nintendo-branded online media store/service (like Nintendo is doing in Japan), and finally the ability to play games that render in 720p.
It's not an entirely new system with an entirely new development ecosystem (say like jumping from PS2 to PS3), but the exact same system, with a few new features added to the core experience (jumping from DS to DSL to DSi to DSi XL). And for the record, this is exactly the same thing Apple has been doing with iPhone since they brought it out. And this is exactly the same thing Nintendo has been doing with the DS since they brought it out. Same hardware; new features. And almost everyone who owned one of the older units, runs out and buys up the newer versions in record numbers as soon as they hit the market.
There is already a well established precedent that not only is this Nintendo's next move (they just have not announced it yet), but also that Nintendo will be wildly successful at doing it. True, having insider information on such a thing would be nice, but you know sometimes how you can really know a person or a thing, sometimes better than they know themselves. And you can anticipate what they are going to do next, simply because you have come to know them so well? Well, this is one of those occasions. Even without insider information, knowing that Nintendo has a new revision to Wii lined up for release to the masses in 2010, is almost like knowing that the sun is going to rise on a cloudy day. You do not have to actually see the sun rise, because all the clouds are in the way, but when the sun does rise, all the indications that is has risen (the cloudy sky just got brighter) are there all the same.
I downranked invader for being too long and not concise.
Nintendo makes easy money on cheap hardware and pop-games.
The games being developed for the system are so simple, that there is no lasting learning experience. They are games that are particularly fun to pick up and play but will become horrendously boring once you realize, that a good portion of the rules are based on values the human brain could not possibly predict ("random" numbers), or that you've mastered the rules in only a 3-4 hour sitting.
It's not only the games, the system in general provides a bad learning atmosphere.
While they did add widespread online support it's usefulness is limited. Online play allows you to test not only your grasp of the rules against other players but it also allows you to develop team/networking skills. Emotional connections are developed between friends as well. Using friend codes impedes the networking process and strips you of a meaningful ID. Most games don't support any form of communication either, once again creating a worthless experience.
The thing is their profits were so huge anyway, its not as if they're going down heaps, just returning from their inflated state xD
Yeah, that's my take. Wii and DSi went from being crazy popular to just really popular... maybe a little faster decline than Nintendo expected, but still.
Of course they're not moving units. Everyone who wants one already has one, and the people who don't want one aren't buying it.
Tremendous analysis my friend, keep it up!
I want one, but im not gonna buy one
I don't want one, but I am buying one
I bought one, but now I dont' want it.
nintendo is solving this by introducing the black wii.
how creative!
That's just to hold people over until the iWii Pro comes out.
Wii games need to evolve from little kiddie party games where you just do stupid gestures to open a can or pickup a rat into more mature titles that actually have some depth.
Boom Blox is probably the best example of a party-type game I can think (great game), but eventually people (I) want more than just throwing things at a tower of blocks.
Some gamers actually have the ability to play a game that isn't broken into 15 second segments.
Rather than list all the good games on the system that don't fall into your blinkered little category, I shall just issue you with a facepalm.
> Some gamers actually have the ability to play a game that isn't broken into 15 second segments.
Unfortunately, some game developers lost the ability to develop such games.
And some publishers prefer to go with the lower hanging "15 second" fruits.
The problem is their attach rate is so low, so despite a massive saturated market for wii consoles, they aren't making much money on licensing fees from software sales.
It has a higher attach rate than the PS3.
Incorrect: http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/04/ps3-attach-rate-overtakes-wii-attach-rate/
i need proof on that one coolblue.
thank you feepness. always nice to know.
@Feepness.
You too are incorrect, http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly.php
However last week the wii was ahead of the PS3.
I think to save profits Nintendo need to revitalise the Game Boy products! People already have the games and there is huge demand for them! Just look on eBay at the Original Game Boy to GBA SP the prices are still high!
People mature and are probably upgrading from their Wiis to an XBOX or Playstation to enjoy the superior experience - just as people upgrade their cars and other posessions. As a more mature player, while the Wii is very innovative and fun, the pixelated graphics really put me off. Nintendo came up with a great idea and if they are to remain in the game, (pun intended), they need to bring out a new model if they don't want to lose maturing customers or even put off more fussy youth.
My 60 year old in-laws, who have a wii and a nice collection of games for it, are going to "mature" and move on to the x360 or ps3? LOL.
Sure...
@Oflife
Surely a more mature gamer would be able to see through the graphics and would care more about gameplay. I am 33 and I have a wii to go alongside my 360 as I love the fun nature of the Wii games (which is the whole reason I got into games in the first place) I remember a time when core and casual were not used to describe games and everyone just got on with having fun (ahhh the 16 bit era.....)
Looking at the bigger picture, both the XBOX 360 and PS3 have come into their own - offering "wow" experiences with their HD gaming besides all the extras like media streaming, online gaming etc. etc. And the price difference between these powerhouse gaming consoles and the Wii SD is negligible.
And their catalog is getting impressive by the minute while it's the other way round for Wii.
Yeah..people will still buy the Wii for it's fun experience and I still recommend it to my friends who have kids. But unless Nintendo comes up with something that is game-changing, this is how it's going to play out.
On the other end of the spectrum, could it be that more of the casual gamers are now gravitating towards playing on their iPhone and other mobile devices?
@ beq
Nope
I luv surfing on the net with my Wii, Best controller the wiimote for controlling webpages from my couch. Gaming on the Wii? ups i forgot it again. Only plays when friends are over. okay tried the anno 1404 which was quite good game. If Nintendo wants to sell more consoles beef it up with a Chip that can handle HD viode streams and get me an HDMI anytime.
they should of released the black wii this holiday season
You should've (should have) paid attention in english class.
MotionPlus was a fix for sucky controllers, games with sucky controls don't sell, so unless you have MotionPlus your stuck with games with crappy ctrols.
Maybe if they had released it for free or even as a standard part of new systems, people people would buy games but Nintendo saw an opportunity to cash in, on their own mistakes... many people, like me, took this as an insult to their intelligence. Its a result of their own greed IMHO.
The Wii it's not a gamers console, it's a casual games novelty. Nintendo created a truly savior for the company but the Wii is not the device gamers are looking for. In the Wii not even the attach rate is low but also the mean playtime per week is much lower than the competition, so what's the story behind the metrics, the Nintendo Wii it's an over hyped novelty that quickly loses its WOW! factor.
Now some people states that better graphics and more media capabilities does not mean better game play, and it's absolutely right (There is people who spend days playing farmville on facebook), but the thing is that the PS3 and Xbox owners have excellent game play experiences too...
Anyway, Nintendo knew this was coming from the beginning and they already have plans for a Wii HD for next year, they say will offer graphics on par (if not better) than the PS3 and Xbox, and this was a very clever plan. Parts are cheaper, HD is now mainstream, connectivity its better, they created a strong users base with a technically inferior product, while Sony and MS were just recovering from their huge RD and production costs, now with their new console, things can only get better.
Now, what about current Wii users? are they going to be left out the party so soon? Nintendo is known for this, see the GameCube and the PS2....
Summary: Fad over.
its still the fastest selling machine. the whole game industry is suffering with lack of sales at the moment
According to VG Chartz:
Wii sold the most consoles last month (in USA and total world sales) only beaten narrowly by the PS3 in Japan. Wii has 4 of 10 top selling games (#2, #3, #4, and #8). PS3 has 2 titles in the top 10 and XBox 360 has 3.
Current market share shows the Wii with about 48%, Xbox 360 29%, PS3 23%.
Summary: You didn't check your facts.
Yeah, Dave.
So what's the sales curve like?
I do check my facts, sweetie. Do you?
Three years is pretty long for a fad, don't you think? Nintendo could pull out of this console cycle NOW and still have a huge profit to show for it. Microsoft and Sony will be selling consoles for years before they can recoup their expenses.
I'm not saying the Wii hasn't disappointed me as a gamer, but come on people, let's keep things in the proper perspective. The system has still outsold the PS3 and Xbox 360, and Nintendo will have made far more money on this system when the dust settles. They've won this console war, and no amount of schadenfreude from its detractors will change that.
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/stateofvgamer_040609_fnl1.pdf
thats what happens with novelties/fads. People get sick of them and they go away as fast as they came
@beq
Unlikely because the target range for the IPhone doesn't cover kids or the seniors that play and iPhone doesn't offer interactive fun.
You can't be serious dude, how does the iphone not offer interactive fun? It's got a zillion cheap motion or touchbased games and oddly most have local and/or online multiplay of some type.
No, he's right. No matter what the man says, Jobs be Praised, the iPod touch and iPhone really AREN'T good gaming systems, for real gamers.
For real handheld gaming, see: PSP, DS, et al.
How did the iPhone sneak its way into this conversation?
Glamma: This IS Engadget, you know.
@glamajamma
Because iphone is moving into the gaming field *whether it succeds or not*.
@yomachaser
Interactive as in the motion sensor relating to what people find appealing about the Wii *Wii Bowling Wii Sports anything involving moving that WiiMote around*
I think this is exactly what Nintendo needs right now--- A slight reality check that they still need to play to their base consumers, and to make more first party games. With the GC, it was great for the fans. We got games released at 'player's choice' for... $20 I think. It was great. Twilight Princess is still $50 most places. Maybe this will make The Big N a bit more favorable to me.
First-party games are absolutely needed; they're why I love Nintendo so much in the first place. Nintendo is incredibly innovative and has the capacity to make stunning games; why aren't they using it to its full potential?
We need Kirby on the Wii right about now. I think some people seem to think "core" games are never kid-friendly; Kirby is the shit. The "core" and "casual" (much as I hate that distinction...) gamers I know all like Kirby.
They should've spent more time developing games instead of attachments.
sorry I can't get past the "hedgehog" in the mario outfit...anyone else think the world is just wrong when this jerk had the career he did?
One simple thing they could've done was make each of the Wii sports titles into their own, full games.
Everyone I know with a Wii always plays that golf, bowling and tennis. They could've easily come out just w/ a full golf version, with a bunch more holes, and it would've definitely helped.
or they could come out with a new super mario game staring the mario in the article. put him in with a bunch more holes...that definitely will help.
...Why would they be staring at the mario in the article?
How in the $%^ are tech gadget readers so grammatically incompetent?
If you didn't graduate 6th Grade, don't post
i think the hype has finally worn off and people are finally thinking, i wasted over 200 dollars on this piece of shit?
Time to start shipping that black Wii to the US!
so they made a mountain of money on the wii and the ds, where sony and microsoft were losing money, yet i feel that nintendo isn't doing anything about putting the money into the games. there should be a good amount of first party nintendo games coming out, with a new wing dedicated to more hardcore gamers. instead they just dust off an IP and make some minor upgrades. it's like they don't even care, and just give us wii sports resort.
I love the Wii to bits.
I bought one earlier this year when I realized that my other half was really good at classic core games that pre-date the increasingly brown and muddy 3d revolution. The Wii rules the roost when it comes to old-skool core gaming, in terms of Virtual Console, Retail Releases and Wii Ware. It has some great Indie titles about too. I love motion and pointer controls. I grew up on Keyboards, Joysticks and mice and frankly can't get on with this knobbly analog controllers that kids have in their bedrooms these days.
And that's the thing with the Wii. The popular perception is that PS360's are bedroom consoles for teenage boys. Sony is attacking that with its advertising at the moment. But the Wii immediately makes sense in the living room.
I have picked up some 'Mature' titles for the System. Madworld, HOTD:OK, DSE, NMH, etc. I have tried them, liked them, but Raving Rabbids is more fun to play in the living room with friends, and none of them can compare with playing Left 4 Dead or Bioshock on my PC.
The Wii's problem is people don't buy good games for it. PC Casual games hook people with a demo. Wii casual games don't. Raving Rabbid's TV is far superior to 101 party games. But the average Wii shopper doesn't know this. So they buy one or two games that don't measure up to Wii Sports (or Resort now that is bundled) and give up.
Nintendo channel doesn't help. Most people don't hook their Wii up to the net anyway I imagine.
i have a wii and enjoy it...but it's more to play with my kids or when friends are over...but if you really are a teenager and you think the wii is somehow better than a ps3 or an xbox360 then there's something wrong with you.
This "The popular perception is that PS360's are bedroom consoles for teenage boys." is total and utter bullshit.
I think you should supply a source from a reputable polling service indicating that there is a public opinion even remotely close to that.
FYI, the average gamer's age has risen to be almost 30 years of age, kind of throwing that whole "bedroom consoles for teenage boys" thing right out the window.
The NES, SNES, SEGA(anything), PS1, N64 and arguably the Xbox and PS2, could be classified as "bedroom consoles", but this current gen has transcended (to use a funny word in this context) from being a simple gaming device to being a media integration device/service.
So, grats on being so aged and mature, the rest of us "teenage boys" will keep on playing our (almost) state of the art consoles on our big TVs in our living rooms, you know, when we aren't watching a Blu-Ray movie or streaming high-def video for the family's enjoyment.
Ass.
Woah there! Touched a nerve?
I didn't say that all PS360 gamers were teenage boys who played in their bedrooms. But at 33 I just didn't grow up with dual analogue style controls. The comment was tongue in cheek!
I don't think anyone has done any research into this sort of thing. But as gamers we know that every time there is some sort of media outrage about mature content in games folks are assuming it is teens who will be playing the games. Which we know is silly. Lots of teens have access to DVD players but the press don't go loco every time there is sex or violence in a DVD release.
If you read my post you will see that I highlight the Wii's strengths from a classic gaming perspective, and then ask questions about why it might now be failing to capitalize on the market it has created.
I've had a Wii since day one, a PS2 for 5 years and a 360 for 3.....You can talk about graphics, casual and hardcore all you want. Online keeps people coming back, and nintendo's sucks. Friends Codes are a joke. No Mics are a joke. And the ability for a single person to have fun with the Wii ( Ron Jeremy might be the single exception) is a joke. Not everyone has a house full of kids that want to play party style.
I had to look up this Ron Jeremy character to see who he was and I'm sorry but he has no place on this website or in a gaming reference. Sad to see this....
I hate engadget's comment system.
I'm curious what facts were used to conclude that part of the reason for the decline was "weak game selection"? I've seen a lot of good games coming out on the Wii, especially of late. A Boy and his Blob, LostWinds: Winter of the Melodias, Dead Space Extraction, Punchout just to name a few. We've got, upcoming, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Robocalypse: Beaver Defense, Need for Speed Nitro, Excitebike: World Rally, Shaun White Snowboarding: World Stage, Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Crystal Bearers, Castlevania the Adventure Rebirth, Cave Story, Elf Bowling (Collector's Edition) ... uh... OK... scratch that last one. Point is there's been lots of good games coming out and lots to look forward to in the short term. So enough with the bashing already.
Common sense.
They're speaking about the weak selection of games for the "core gamer" which is to say, a "non-casual" gamer.
If that game selection sounds cool to you, you obviously aren't a serious gamer, 'cause there's not one thing on there that would warrant a console and software purchase to me.
I'm glad you like the Wii and that it works for you, tho.
I agree. Metroid: Other M and the new Zelda should be great for "core" gamers as well. Epic Mickey hold a lot of promise, and I need to give Muramasa and Fragile a try too. Can't forget Galaxy 2, which should be amazing. The Wii has something for everyone. The media has just smeared it. People who game know that there is fun to be had on all the consoles and the attach rates for all are actually good, despite this strange perception that the Wii's is minimal. No, people don't just buy it and play Wii Sports. The numbers tell a different story, and good core games do sell when any effort is put into marketing them.
Since when is a 2D Mario platformer not a "core gamer's" game? What qualifies a game for that coveted label now? An M rating?
There are tonnes of great games on the Wii as you point out.
But people don't buy the 3rd party ones.
And it lacks in the Muddy Brown HD FPS and TPS type games.
Well what do you guys expect, nearly ½ of the world has already bought a Wii... do you really think they would continue to keep buying them?
Although I would be tempted to purchase one of the black Wii's if it was available in the US and give my white one to my niece.
Never have so few done so little for so many, while grossing so much. Nintendo has made a major freak'n fetish out of giving the absolute minimum effort to keep its franchises alive.
I can't believe I agonized over whether to buy the WII or the 360. I went with XBOX, and it has become the central component of my home entertainment system (PVR, movies, game rentals, music, etc). Meanwhile, everyone I know that owns a WII, turn it on once in a blue moon, usually for parties. (Same goes for my kids' DS - my iPhone gets used more.) The WII owners I know usually have alternate game platforms that get a LOT more use.