RED DSMC specs detailed, prices start at $28,000 for EPIC-X, lower-end Scarlet still vague
By Paul Miller 
posted Oct 30th 2009 7:29PM
posted Oct 30th 2009 7:29PM
Scarlet 2/3-inch features
- Increased REDCODE data rates
- New FLUT Color, Gamma and Sensitivity Science. Now same as EPIC.
- More extensive modular system integration.
- Interchangeable Lens mounts including focus and iris control of electronic RED, Canon and Nikon lenses, along with Zoom data (Scarlet 2/3" Interchangeable)
- "Touch Focus Tracking" with electronic lens mounts and RED touchscreen LCD's (Scarlet 2/3" Interchangeable and 8x Fixed)
- Two independent microphone level channels, balanced input circuits, 48V Phantom Power, digitized at 24-bit 48KHz.
- GigaBit Ethernet port
- Scaled 1080P at 60fps
- New MYSTERIUM-X 5K sensor
- 5K (2:1) at 1-100fps
- 4K (2:1) at 1-125fps
- Quad HD at 1-120fps
- 3K (2:1) at 1-160fps
- 2K (2:1) at 1-250fps
- 1080P (scaled from full frame) at 1-60fps
- Increased Dynamic Range, reduced noise
- Time Lapse, Frame Ramping
- REDCODE 250
- ISO 200-8000
- New FLUT Color Science
- Completely Modular System, each Module individually upgradeable
- Independent Stills and Motion Modes (both record full resolution REDCODE RAW)
- 5 Axis Adjustable Sensor Plate
- Multiple Recording Media Options (Compact Flash, 1.8" SSD, RED Drives, RED RAM)
- Wireless REDMOTE control
- Touchscreen LCD control option
- Bomb-EVF, RED-EVF and RED-LCD compatible
- Multiple User Control Buttons
- Interchangeable Lens mounts including focus and iris control of electronic RED, Canon and Nikon lenses (along with Zoom data)
- "Touch Focus Tracking" with electronic lens mounts and RED Touchscreen LCDs
- LDS and /i Data enabled PL Mount
- Rollover Battery Power
- Independent LUTs on Monitor Outputs
- Independent Frame Guides and Menu overlays on Monitor Outputs
- Monitor Ports support both LCD and EVF
- True Shutter Sync In/Out and Strobe Sync Out
- 720P, 1080P and 2K monitoring support
- Gigagbit Network interface and 802.11 Wireless interface
- 3 Axis internal motion sensor, built in GPS receiver
- Enhanced Metadata
- Full size connectors on Pro I/O Module. AES Digital Audio input, single and dual link HD-SDI
- Support for RED, most Arri 19mm, Studio 15mm, 15mm Lite, Panavision and NATO accessories
- Dimensions- Approx. 4"x4"x5.5"
- Weight (Brain only)- Approx. 6 lbs (2.72kg)
(looks at price)
.....shit dude
Considering that cameras like, say, a Sony CineAlta F23 (which can't shoot at these resolutions and framerates, not even close) have a MSRP of $150,000, it should be obvious that yes, this is a killer price point... Of course all the accessories are very expensive, but that's true of any professional camera of that level.
@Marc-O
Yes I know that this is cheap relatively speaking to other professional cameras...but still. Not so used to these numbers.
I guarantee that the F23 and F35s perform better than the Epic. There's a reason the CineAltas cost that much. The CCDs in the F35 are stripped from a much higher resolution sensor - so it records at 1080p - but it is very close to film's dynamic range.
Once again, resolution isn't everything - let's not forget. You can buy a 12 megapixel camera for $400 and it won't compare to a $5,000 Nikon D3.
@Bryan F
Well thanks Brian for schooling me about how resolution isn't everything, but I'm a little bit aware of these things already, as a DP and director. My point was, at $28,000, it's very cheap in comparison, while competing with much more expensive rigs. Notice that I wasn't mentioning the F35, but let's see how they compare nonetheless when the product is actually out... I have a hunch you'll be surprised.
One thing you said leaves me wondering though: "The CCDs in the F35 are stripped from a much higher resolution sensor - so it records at 1080p - but it is very close to film's dynamic range" - what exactly do you think pixel resolution has to do with dynamic range ?
What I meant is that the sensor is stripped with a Bayer filter - so the sensor is insanely accurate in terms of color reproduction. They could have kept the high resolution - but then the CCD wouldn't have been as dynamic.
Not to say that I'm anti-Red. But you've also got CMOS rolling shutter issues on Red cameras. Major studios will probably stick with CCDs until the rolling shutter problem is improved.
Anyway, sorry if I sounded condescending - didn't mean to come off like that.
"I guarantee that the F23 and F35s perform better than the Epic."
Well, I took a look at Public Enemies, shot on the F23, and it looked like ass.
>>Well, I took a look at Public Enemies, shot on the F23, and it looked like ass.
What are you talking about? Public Enemies doesn't look like ass. Besides, the Sony F23 and F35/Genesis is commonly used for major Hollywood films. That's why its been used in movies from everything from Sin City, Star Wars, 21, to Zombieland.
The Red is still relegated to Indie films like The Argentine and Guerrilla. But that's not a bad thing. When your budget are in the millions of dollars, the cost of the camera is the last thing you want to worry about. Red serves a very important role. Its silly to compare a Red to a F35/Genesis, like it is to compare a 5DII/7D to a Red. They each serve their own niche, their own market. Same goes for equipment from Arriflex, Silicon imaging, etc.
Enter The Digital Age Short Film Competition to WIN the 2/3" Fixed RED SCARLET at http://sKarlets.com
"What are you talking about? Public Enemies doesn't look like ass."
OK, well, if you think grid noise patterns in dark areas, pink smears on lights (similar to those seen in the digital portions of Collateral), and a period movie entirely composed of close-ups and medium shots doesn't look like ass, then your standards should allow you to enjoy a wide range of crap.
It's 1930s Chicago, but you'd never know it from watching this movie. There's not one wide shot of... well, just about anything. Not an iconic street. Nothing even to validate that we're in Chicago. The Untouchables was shot on film, an an era without digital post, and it manages to encompass downtown locations.
So why would that be? Perhaps because the image quality was so poor that they couldn't afford to have the audience scrutinizing small details, like buildings in the distance. Much the same reason you don't see but one wide shot in 28 Days Later, which was shot on DV. People don't notice piss-poor resolution as much when all you have is close-ups.
Public Enemies is a claustrophobic bore.
Only $28,000??? What a steal! This will be the perfect accessory to my Xperia Pureness phone.
Whoa
/Joey Lawrence
Dammm...
Oh c'mon. $28,000. Now let's see, an overpriced piece of metal from "Terminator"... I'll pass.
Where is my Canon 5D mkII?? I will rather use the change on a new car.
What a monster.
that's what she said
^ That's what your mum said.
Why does that thing look like a G1 Megatron in an alternate transform mode?
...and you know some 16 year old is gonna be totting this one around town just to prove a point.
Transformer G1 Reflector.
what an amazing company, they say they will revolutionise the stills camera market, and all they do is say "Hey, get this, a video camera that does stills or vice versa, whoah, cool huh" and a day or so later canon reveal the 5d MKII which does just that. ,then RED go quiet and we dont see anything, then they do this, awesome, maybe RED needs telephones or the internet or something
kinda looks like a tonka toy..
wow. with the original RED i enjoyed telling productions i would need twice as many lights if they wanted it to look good maybe now i can get 4 times as many lights. i dont know about you guys, but i kind of like contrast in my frames.
I think the general trend with sensors is to get better with each iteration not worse.
"Increased Dynamic Range, reduced noise"
So why would you need more lights with this than the RED One? I've shot with the RED One and I certainly didn't need twice as many lights to get good contrast and a properly exposed image. Maybe the problem isn't that the camera needs tons more lights, but that you need to learn to light better.
The Red One suffers from washed-out images, both in terms of color and contrast. Try to find a good blue in any Red footage.
People may balk at the price point, but this camera's main competition are the $100,000+ film cameras from the likes of Arri and Panavision. And you can't even legally buy one of those. Granted a full shooting package will push the price north of say $60,000, but that is still a steal for something you can actually buy.
Film will never die, but RED is giving it a helluhva run for it's money.
you can buy Arri cameras. Panavision doesn't sell them, but plenty of places have them on loan. The reason they do it is so they can be sure they are kept maintained to their standards. I don't think there is anything legal about it, Panavision just doesn't sell them. It's the same with technocrane, fisher, and chapman-leonard; they don't sell them so that it is less likely that a badly maintained one goes to set where it could cost 100's of thousands for a lost day of work because some jackass put the wrong ground glass in.
As far as the money goes. If you're shooting anything over about 20 minutes (I forget the exact number of minutes) it costs the same or more to shoot on the Red because of the high cost of post and what not.
I don't mean to sound like I hate innovation, quite the opposite really, but I do hate it when people (kids and producers mainly) don't understand quite everything and then it screws us all on set because they didn't know the facts.
I'm not a kid or producer and have done RED DIT work. It is not more expensive to shoot on RED at all. Hell, my MacBook Pro can do the post work for the camera and I've seen plenty of much cheaper, film rivaling footage from the camera. Film is certainly not cheaper, but it is a 100 year old, well tested and know technology. Nothing against film, truly, but RED is making it so non-film industry people can make quality films (quality looking anyway...story is another matter for another day).
I've been on both film and RED sets and RED is cheaper....even if you have a Scratch system RED is still cheaper.
I can guarantee you that if you want to spend your hard earned dollars and buy a top of the line film camera from Pana/Arri/Aaton/whoever, you can do so without breaking any laws... Provided you don't buy it from the back of a truck in a back alley somewhere. ;)
But why do they have to make it look cheap and stupid?
They differentiate themselves. And they're doing it very well! :)
I love REDs, but they're too expensive for my needs. I'm still holding my breath for the Scarlet 2/3.
Engadget used a picture of the prototype camera, which doesn't accurately reflect how the finished production model looks. I think the prototype is pretty ugly looking as well, but check out red.com to see renders of what it will look like when completed and wearing black instead of silver.
(that was for Saint Dumb, above... Damn comment system.)
This post is a bit misleading about the Scarlet cameras. The features posted by Red are those that are being added to the Scarlet since the last announcement. It isn't a 1080p camera; that's just one possible resolution option. The lowest tier of Scarlet camera will shoot 3k resolution at high frame rates. It's not really in the same category as video-capable D-SLR's. I realize that Engadget is just covering today's announcement, but in the case of the Scarlet, there's a lot more to the camera than the few things Red is currently adding.
Yes, but video capable DSLRs have much larger sensors... as soon as it gets dark I suppose the DSLRs will be superior. Or if you want low DoF.
As an owner of the Red One, I speak from a position of some authority. First of all, $28,000 is a STEAL for this kind of technology. No, it's not made for shooting your cousins wedding, it's a professional camera. So the comments about the price being silly, are, well... Silly.
Secondly, to compare Scarlet to ANY DSLR that can "shoot HD" is just plain ignorant. Scarlet will absolutely, unequivocably DESTROY any DSLR. End of debate.
Third, if the F35 (200k price tag) is so hot, why wasn't "District 9" shot on it? Or "Knowing"? Or "The Informant", or "The Lovely Bones"... or "Gamer"?
Answer: because it's weak sauce compared to a camera that costs a fraction of the price.
In closing, this is some seriously groundbreaking, industry disrupting, game changing stuff.
Film isn't dead... yet... but the audiences' tastes have changed. Get on board, cause the train is leaving the station.
All aboard the fanboy train. WOOP WOOP.
Third, if the F35 (200k price tag) is so hot, why wasn't "District 9" shot on it? Or "Knowing"? Or "The Informant", or "The Lovely Bones"... or "Gamer"?
District 9 had a lot of hand held and tight indoor shots, and while I haven't seen the F35 I could only imagine it's more cumbersome than Red One.
@spaz_1 >> "District 9 had a lot of hand held and tight indoor shots, and while I haven't seen the F35 I could only imagine it's more cumbersome than Red One."
Oh, the F35 can be handheld... or shoulderheld :)
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachments/hd-uhd-2k-digital-cinema/10090d1229666876-sony-f35-first-experience-img_0756.jpg
"Third, if the F35 (200k price tag) is so hot, why wasn't "District 9" shot on it? Or "Knowing"? Or "The Informant", or "The Lovely Bones"... or "Gamer"? Answer: because it's weak sauce compared to a camera that costs a fraction of the price."
REAL ANSWER: Big Hollywood blockbusters never shoot on any camera because of it's price point. They shoot on it because of the look. Every time I read about a movie using RED in ICG or ASC the DP ALWAYS SAYS it's for the look of the camera. Specifically, I remember articles about D9, Knowing, and the Informant all wanting their films to have a Digital look (Aka, they didn't want it to look like film).
They don't even buy RED's anyway, so the price isn't a debate for them. They rent them, and for about the same rental price as a F35, because you aren't paying a rental house for the camera, you are paying for a guarantee that your camera is going to work.
"Secondly, to compare Scarlet to ANY DSLR that can "shoot HD" is just plain ignorant. Scarlet will absolutely, unequivocably DESTROY any DSLR. End of debate."
Interesting, have you seen footage from a Scarlet yet? I haven't.
"Secondly, to compare Scarlet to ANY DSLR that can "shoot HD" is just plain ignorant. Scarlet will absolutely, unequivocably DESTROY any DSLR. End of debate."
The Canon DSLRs ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, SOMETHINGLY FRIGGING annihilate RED ONE in low light shooting. The noise on the RED is horrible. Both camera's are great for their own merits and I'm pretty psyched about the cheapo Scarlet.
Come on RED!
Great camera. Now you need to find a good lens set- The high end T1.3 lenses that work great in candle light will set will set you back a pretty penny, a set of 5 running near six figures.
Lumatech Inc has such a set of Super35 lenses now shipping that is a little over $30k. see www.lumatechinc.com
A small company giving the industry insiders a run for their money at a quality that's tough to beat. Gotta love it!
Yeah but will it blend?
I'm sure all the fanboys will denounce my comments, but I have yet to experience a problem-free day with a Red camera... I'm sure there's some out there that work all the time without any serious problems, but I haven't seen one... I'll take one of the new Arris any day... They have what's called a track record. What the hell am I gonna do with 5K if it doesn't have the image quality of another camera, anyway? Now don't go comparing this thing, people... It's not out yet.
"Secondly, to compare Scarlet to ANY DSLR that can "shoot HD" is just plain ignorant. Scarlet will absolutely, unequivocably DESTROY any DSLR. End of debate."
dumbass... You haven't even seen a comparison...
The reason the Red One (and soon Epic and Scarlet) is such a groundbreaking piece of hardware for the film work is partially resolution but also a large part the format that it records in. It's RAW recording format (compared to YUV 4:2:2 or RGB 4:4:4 in the Sony Cinealta F23/F35) allows for much more color flexibility and range when it comes time to shoot your negative. Going from any 'video' color space to film you lose a ton of range in the highlights and shadows, the Red's RAW material can be preserved on film if done correctly.
It's not actually raw sorry.
4:4:4 RGB is raw.
Redcode is not.
rolling shutter effect would ruin this i think-- do red cameras exhibit this effect? i hope that it'd be non-existent at this price point.
All CMOS cameras are prone to rolling shutter issues.
In theory yes, but in practice it's hard to produce with RED, if at all. We haven't had any problems with it, and the last I heard about it was back when RED took the camera out of beta status. I doubt many would shoot with it if it still had a significant problem like that.
Which is why a good DP will always test the tools for the job. I couldn't imagine having a single camera with CMOS used in heavy panning action films, or at least not have it tested against an alternative in order to establish whether or not it has visible rolling shutter.
One of the first things RED investigated was designing a full-frame CMOS that didn't have rolling shutter. It generated a significant amount of heat, but they were able to accomplish this feat within a very short time-frame. If you can find it (I couldn't), there is an article detailing the struggle in a past issue of HD Video Pro magazine.
And here's an article that I hope clears up the myths and misconceptions about CCD vs CMOS:
http://blog.abelcine.com/2009/04/15/the-difference-between-a-global-shutter-and-a-rolling-shutter/
Wolfticket,
Get a real job (because someone who has enough free time to troll gadget sites and post to engadget 1000+ times obviously doesn't have anything better to do) and invest years and thousands in some film equipment, learn something about the industry, and then come back.
Till then, go play outside and let the big people talk. M'kay?
Actually, you'll find that those 1075 comments came over the course of over 3 years, so I had a little spare time to do other more productive things.
As for getting a "real job", well, frankly I don't think it really matters what I do for a living.
The fact you seem to mention your job at every opportunity in order to justify your bullshit comparisons between this camera (which you have never used) and other cameras (which may or may not have used) makes you sound like an insecure ignorant fuck. M'kay?
With specious specs like that, they better set up a retail outlet next to Bang and Olufsen, Bose, and Sharper Image. Seriously, it has 'FLUT Color Science', it must be worth $28k!
Would you rather have no color science? Yes, a new acronym sounds like bullshit, but every company tries it's own things to make improvements on the technology. If you're just reading a spec sheet it sounds pretty stupid, but try looking up what those acronyms do. It might not mean much to YOU in the end, but you can be damned sure it matters to professionals.
You mentioned professional photographers using off-the-shelf DSLRs to make videos. Of course - they're Photographers. Real film makers have run up a serious waiting list on most RED rental places, and that is actually a VERY good price for what that camera can do. Similar rigs from other companies are running several times that.
Hmm but is it really necessary to fight aids in Africa with such a camera?
Wow the ignorance of some of these comments is on par to a flame war on the merits of The Transformers script.
Comparing a Honda Civic to a Enzo Ferrari by saying the Honda will get you to the same destination is not really the point.
Your analogy fails when professional photographers are starting to use off the shelf DSLR's to shoot HD video:
http://exposureroom.com/members/philipbloom.aspx/assets/80451d02941a4cd6b47303518104bd25/
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/02/new-snl-title-sequence-and-segments-shot-using-canon-eos-7d-5d/
and that camera ain't no enzo...
Filmed a movie this summer with the latest Red tech and was not terribly impressed.
Sure, it's got all the specs on paper, but we started to have problems towards the end of the shoot. Everything was working itself loose on these bastards.
We're quickly losing our ability for fine craftsmanship~
Is this a vacuum cleaner?
The most frustrating thing about Red is their inability to get product to market in a reasonable timeframe. I think the only reason people are tolerant and still hanging in there is because the Red One was so groundbreaking in what it could do at the price point. They seriously just need to partner with someone who has manufacturing capability and make a butload of product to get the market and own it. Is this the 2nd or 3rd version of Scarlet, without one Scarlet yet to reach the marketplace?
Come on Red get building and build lots.
Agreed. Red has had great publicity for years now but zilch for product rollout. When DSLRs are starting to get as much notice as a video camera as the Red has gotten, something is wrong. Great specs/ great price with NO availability= losing company. Sell the patents bro and get out of the business. Better red than dead.
That thing looks seriously unergonomic for any kind of shooting.
Maybe it looks that way, but I can tell you that you are wrong (unless you don't have normally shaped hands) because I was at the REDucation course in October. They were showing off the shell of a Scarlet camera in class and it felt great to use and carry around all day. You haven't even seen the back side of the Scarlet, have you? Without viewing the camera from all [important] angles I wouldn't say it, "looks" unergonomic.
Funny. To me it looks like it has the ergonomics of a DSLR
but the question begs to be asked.... how many megapixels?
If you don't know how many megapixels 5K 2:1 is then you shouldn't bother...
Can't give it too many points for looks but I think RED have done it again, INC-RED-IBLE!!
Thanks for the empty cheerleading.
I think it is hilarious that RED products look like some kind of camera toy from the 80's that I'd find in my parents basement. Don't get me wrong... I would die to have one.
Why does it look like a prop out of the first star wars?
Even film cameras have a maximum panning speed due to shutter roll. It's just the way it is.
Red haven't done it again until they can actually start fufilling orders. They make the most awesome vapourware.
Please Red can you just make the damn camera and workflow work this time.
There's nothing wrong with their "workflow". You'd be dealing with the same issues (or more) if you scanned film.
The pissing and moaning over the supposedly scary workflow is played out.
Woah what happened to SCARLET being around $3,000 and shooting 3k :(
What about it?
This announcement covers the Epic, not the Scarlet. RTFA.
RED Oct. 30th Announcement
After reading the latest announcement from RED I've had some major revelations that I'd like to share with everyone. After the announcement, there was a general consensus among those who wanted a Scarlet that, yes, they will want a Scarlet but why do they feel like they are getting dicked around with? Well, there's a lot of reasons. Let's look at a few of them.
Release Schedule:
Summer 2008 (Possibly Earlier) - Here comes the announcement of a 3k (resolution) Camera for around $3,000. Considering that this shoots higher resolution than 32mm film (around 2k resolution) it was a BIG deal. The common slogan was "3k for $3k!" and it was being paraded around. It would ship early 2009 (Jan-Apr. estimated)
Fall 2008 - Instead of releasing the camera, they announce they are changing the specs of all the camera's and implement a really cool, revolutionary way to buy your equipment. Modular. Great, but the camera is pushed back six months for release. The fixed lens camera is $3750 -- It's still the 3k for 3k deal, but it gives you the additional add-ons to have you read to shoot immediately. Camera's should start releasing summer 2009.
Later in Fall 2008 - New specs and prices are released. Most don't consider this a huge change from before as everything is modular. But essentially the same.
Summer 2009 - We haven't heard anything for a while. People are nervous. A statement is released saying they are being slow to release the camera's because their manufacturers dropped, went out of business, and the people at RED are working less hours (expected because of the economy). They said this would be a 2-3 month delay, not bad.
Now, 2-3 months later or more - We are told that the Scarlet specs have changed AGAIN, that the price is going to go up (we don't know how much except that the camera is better than before so it makes sense for a price raise). Also, there's no announcement as to the release of the Scarlet. All the attention is on the EPIC (their $28,000 camera) which is going through beta and won't release for several more months officially, except to loyal RED customers, who will be working through the Beta and determining when it will be finished. Assuming the Scarlet goes through a similar process, it may be another 6 months before we see a Scarlet. However, this could be a false assumption and we may see one at any moment. RED isn't telling us much. Also, with the announcement we learn that there will be ANOTHER announcement at the end of November...How about they actually release something and stop making announcements?
So those who want a Scarlet feel like they are an afterthought now, instead of really part of the game.
The company uses the phrase "Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it." And they have hidden behind this several times now. Many people have saved up and postponed other purchases to get this camera based on the rough idea they'd have it within 6 months after the announced date. People expect delays. Then the company changes their mind, scraps the product and makes a new one, and pushes to release that instead. When people complain, they throw this sentence at them and tell them they shouldn't have expected anything. What kind of business model is that? Upset because you made a SLOGAN, a major announcement, then didn't even remotely stick to it on any ground?
Many Scarlet users still wish they had the original Scarlet. It could be released, they could be shooting professional quality videos, and they could be rolling with it. Then the new products could've come along and they could've chosen to upgrade or not. But right now, a lot of hype was created by RED that they didn't live up to and now they are hiding.
You say "No they aren't!". Actually, they have been actively deleting posts on the forums regarding the Scarlet wanters who are upset:
"Just a reminder.. if you wanna bitch.. do it in the complaint department. If you do it here.. your threads will just be deleted so you are wasting your time." Jarred Land, who is on the RED Staff.
Another great quote from Jarred, "...if there is one thing that does piss me off, is when people keep saying "RED PROMISED THIS, RED PROMISED THAT," . We never promised anything." On this basis, RED is allowed to announce anything they want including Time Machines, a $1 iPod, or a decent video camera and we should have the same expectations of all of those products coming into actuality. Forgive us for thinking that you are actually going to attempt to accomplish something that you announce.
Shortly before this statement he writes, "We never targeted the consumer market nor ever announced intentions to target the consumer market. Scarlet, all the way down the the removable 2/3." In other words -- your excuse that a consumer used to be able to afford the announced camera and no longer can because of the price raise is bull crap because we never intended to "sell to that market", even though they made a low priced camera perfectly capable. It just wasn't "officially announced", though even if it was "officially announced" we couldn't believe it, because nothing they say can be taken as factual.
Posters on the forums who previously owned a RED One because they could afford it (around $50,000 for the camera and all it's accessories to be functional) are mocking the Scarlet users telling them they aren't professional, are whining, or simply don't understand how great RED is.
"So all this Veruca Salt-ish, "I want it now, Daddy" sentiment makes me realize just how important a bomb-proof program is...if RED released even a mildly buggy or less than perfected camera to this impatient next generation of users, they'd be opening a big can of whup-ass on themselves." Meryem Ersoz on the forums.
Everything is released less than perfect these days. Operating Systems, Blu Ray Players, External Hard Drives, everything having to do with technology. They all go through upgrades and they all go versions. To argue that they are just going to complain on this basis is silly, and yet it's used to attack these Scarlet fans.
One person whose post was deleted from the main part of the website for everyone to see and moved somewhere else gives the following examples of mistreatment:
"The Disappointed: We wanted the Scarlet that was initially promised. Stop making it so complicated.
The Apologists: They are trying it to do it right. Patience!
The Disappointed: We want them to do it right as well but we don't all the bells and whistles.
The Apologists: Too bad! Suck it up.
The Disappointed: But we want to shoot now. We are ready to suck it up. We understand it might be difficult earlier on.
The Apologists: That's what you are saying now. When you get a half finished camera, you will come here bitching and moaning.
The Disappointed: No I promise. I am just disappointed, it has been almost two years now.
The Apologists: You can't be a truly Red fan if you sound disappointed. This is an independent company. Jim is so [great]!!!
The Disappointed: We agree. We saved all our pennies doing piddly things to buy this camera.
The Apologists: Well, you should have gotten a Red fool! Like I did! Haha!
The Disappointed: It is out of my price range. I just want a camera that has a good codec and an interchangeable lens setup.
The Apologists: You clearly must be an amateur. You need more than just that. You need 5k. You need a full frame sensor. You need [this] and [that].
The Disappointed: Not really. When I need something like that I'll will rent.
The Apologists: In any case, you should appreciate the honesty of Red. They have been open with their development. No other company does that.
The Disappointed: You're right. I'm being honest too."
I have had 5 of my posts removed that had valid concerns and while they were attacked, the attacks were completely de-bunked and I was standing uncorrected -- shortly before they were deleted and I was told to stop "bitching" on the main page.
One of the forum moderators that these conversations were happening on explained why the posts were deleted. He said:
"So you are saying we are dishonest by moving your post to another thread?
Reason that many posts were removed was that they were repetitive and didn't add anything new to the discussion (FYI: there were also many "positive" comments removed)."
To which my response was, "If repetitive and not adding anything is the requirement to have a post removed than you should remove 90% of the posts on there...". Many of the positive posts, and many of the off topic posts have been left on the board. It's a significant number of the negative posts that have been removed. Also, I have yet to hear back from the moderator.
Some of the RED One owners are a little upset as well. A cut off date was establish where you could no longer trade in your Red One for the new Epic (This is similar to if you bought a Windows Vista/XP laptop in the last month before Windows 7 released, they give you a new Windows 7 at a discount or free). The cut off date was the day before the announcement. Um...Unfair at all?
So, you tell me, why are the Scarlet users feeling mistreated? If you haven't any clue, then you need to try and look at things from others perspective.
Given all of this, most of the people at RED are awesome. The users are mostly friendly (though fanboyish). I still look forward to the release of the Scarlet especially once we hear the details on the specs and the price. But as a company they should really be careful of the image they are portraying. I saw a good number of people interested in the Scarlet that no longer are interested in it. Red claims the market is "cold" right now, but it may be because they created that cold market for themselves in some ways. Obviously the economy plays a large part in it, but they don't seem to be helping themselves.
They really said they are not targeting the consumer market? In the late 2008/spring 2009 they were going to destroy Canon and Nikon on the DSLR front with their new DSMC.
If you want to read something hilarious dig up the "DSLR-killer" thread in the reduser forums.
yawn........
Wake me when they have something more than a web site for this stuff please, how long has it been since this stuff was 'announced'?... (by the sounds of how many releases on EPIC & no word on Scarlet thats likely at least another year or two away......)
It looks more like Ben Heck modded a Nindendo controller into a camera.
At 28K I would expect something slightly less....horrendous. I know I'm not supposed to judge a book by its cover but dang. That is an ugly piece of crap.
I half expect to see it turn into a Go-Bot. (Notice I didn't say Transformer because everyone knows Transformers were better. ;)
Oh c'mon. $28,000. Now let's see, an overpriced piece of metal from
"Terminator"... I'll pass.
Where is my Canon 5D mkII?? I will rather use the change on a new
car.