RED DSMC specs detailed, prices start at $28,000 for EPIC-X, lower-end Scarlet still vague
By Paul Miller 
posted October 30th 2009 7:29PM
posted October 30th 2009 7:29PM
Scarlet 2/3-inch features
- Increased REDCODE data rates
- New FLUT Color, Gamma and Sensitivity Science. Now same as EPIC.
- More extensive modular system integration.
- Interchangeable Lens mounts including focus and iris control of electronic RED, Canon and Nikon lenses, along with Zoom data (Scarlet 2/3" Interchangeable)
- "Touch Focus Tracking" with electronic lens mounts and RED touchscreen LCD's (Scarlet 2/3" Interchangeable and 8x Fixed)
- Two independent microphone level channels, balanced input circuits, 48V Phantom Power, digitized at 24-bit 48KHz.
- GigaBit Ethernet port
- Scaled 1080P at 60fps
- New MYSTERIUM-X 5K sensor
- 5K (2:1) at 1-100fps
- 4K (2:1) at 1-125fps
- Quad HD at 1-120fps
- 3K (2:1) at 1-160fps
- 2K (2:1) at 1-250fps
- 1080P (scaled from full frame) at 1-60fps
- Increased Dynamic Range, reduced noise
- Time Lapse, Frame Ramping
- REDCODE 250
- ISO 200-8000
- New FLUT Color Science
- Completely Modular System, each Module individually upgradeable
- Independent Stills and Motion Modes (both record full resolution REDCODE RAW)
- 5 Axis Adjustable Sensor Plate
- Multiple Recording Media Options (Compact Flash, 1.8" SSD, RED Drives, RED RAM)
- Wireless REDMOTE control
- Touchscreen LCD control option
- Bomb-EVF, RED-EVF and RED-LCD compatible
- Multiple User Control Buttons
- Interchangeable Lens mounts including focus and iris control of electronic RED, Canon and Nikon lenses (along with Zoom data)
- "Touch Focus Tracking" with electronic lens mounts and RED Touchscreen LCDs
- LDS and /i Data enabled PL Mount
- Rollover Battery Power
- Independent LUTs on Monitor Outputs
- Independent Frame Guides and Menu overlays on Monitor Outputs
- Monitor Ports support both LCD and EVF
- True Shutter Sync In/Out and Strobe Sync Out
- 720P, 1080P and 2K monitoring support
- Gigagbit Network interface and 802.11 Wireless interface
- 3 Axis internal motion sensor, built in GPS receiver
- Enhanced Metadata
- Full size connectors on Pro I/O Module. AES Digital Audio input, single and dual link HD-SDI
- Support for RED, most Arri 19mm, Studio 15mm, 15mm Lite, Panavision and NATO accessories
- Dimensions- Approx. 4"x4"x5.5"
- Weight (Brain only)- Approx. 6 lbs (2.72kg)
In theory yes, but in practice it's hard to produce with RED, if at all. We haven't had any problems with it, and the last I heard about it was back when RED took the camera out of beta status. I doubt many would shoot with it if it still had a significant problem like that.
Which is why a good DP will always test the tools for the job. I couldn't imagine having a single camera with CMOS used in heavy panning action films, or at least not have it tested against an alternative in order to establish whether or not it has visible rolling shutter.
One of the first things RED investigated was designing a full-frame CMOS that didn't have rolling shutter. It generated a significant amount of heat, but they were able to accomplish this feat within a very short time-frame. If you can find it (I couldn't), there is an article detailing the struggle in a past issue of HD Video Pro magazine.
And here's an article that I hope clears up the myths and misconceptions about CCD vs CMOS:
http://blog.abelcine.com/2009/04/15/the-difference-between-a-global-shutter-and-a-rolling-shutter/
Wolfticket,
Get a real job (because someone who has enough free time to troll gadget sites and post to engadget 1000+ times obviously doesn't have anything better to do) and invest years and thousands in some film equipment, learn something about the industry, and then come back.
Till then, go play outside and let the big people talk. M'kay?
Actually, you'll find that those 1075 comments came over the course of over 3 years, so I had a little spare time to do other more productive things.
As for getting a "real job", well, frankly I don't think it really matters what I do for a living.
The fact you seem to mention your job at every opportunity in order to justify your bullshit comparisons between this camera (which you have never used) and other cameras (which may or may not have used) makes you sound like an insecure ignorant fuck. M'kay?
With specious specs like that, they better set up a retail outlet next to Bang and Olufsen, Bose, and Sharper Image. Seriously, it has 'FLUT Color Science', it must be worth $28k!
Would you rather have no color science? Yes, a new acronym sounds like bullshit, but every company tries it's own things to make improvements on the technology. If you're just reading a spec sheet it sounds pretty stupid, but try looking up what those acronyms do. It might not mean much to YOU in the end, but you can be damned sure it matters to professionals.
You mentioned professional photographers using off-the-shelf DSLRs to make videos. Of course - they're Photographers. Real film makers have run up a serious waiting list on most RED rental places, and that is actually a VERY good price for what that camera can do. Similar rigs from other companies are running several times that.
Hmm but is it really necessary to fight aids in Africa with such a camera?
Wow the ignorance of some of these comments is on par to a flame war on the merits of The Transformers script.
Comparing a Honda Civic to a Enzo Ferrari by saying the Honda will get you to the same destination is not really the point.
Your analogy fails when professional photographers are starting to use off the shelf DSLR's to shoot HD video:
http://exposureroom.com/members/philipbloom.aspx/assets/80451d02941a4cd6b47303518104bd25/
http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/02/new-snl-title-sequence-and-segments-shot-using-canon-eos-7d-5d/
and that camera ain't no enzo...
Filmed a movie this summer with the latest Red tech and was not terribly impressed.
Sure, it's got all the specs on paper, but we started to have problems towards the end of the shoot. Everything was working itself loose on these bastards.
We're quickly losing our ability for fine craftsmanship~
Is this a vacuum cleaner?
The most frustrating thing about Red is their inability to get product to market in a reasonable timeframe. I think the only reason people are tolerant and still hanging in there is because the Red One was so groundbreaking in what it could do at the price point. They seriously just need to partner with someone who has manufacturing capability and make a butload of product to get the market and own it. Is this the 2nd or 3rd version of Scarlet, without one Scarlet yet to reach the marketplace?
Come on Red get building and build lots.
Agreed. Red has had great publicity for years now but zilch for product rollout. When DSLRs are starting to get as much notice as a video camera as the Red has gotten, something is wrong. Great specs/ great price with NO availability= losing company. Sell the patents bro and get out of the business. Better red than dead.
That thing looks seriously unergonomic for any kind of shooting.
Maybe it looks that way, but I can tell you that you are wrong (unless you don't have normally shaped hands) because I was at the REDucation course in October. They were showing off the shell of a Scarlet camera in class and it felt great to use and carry around all day. You haven't even seen the back side of the Scarlet, have you? Without viewing the camera from all [important] angles I wouldn't say it, "looks" unergonomic.
Funny. To me it looks like it has the ergonomics of a DSLR
but the question begs to be asked.... how many megapixels?
If you don't know how many megapixels 5K 2:1 is then you shouldn't bother...
Can't give it too many points for looks but I think RED have done it again, INC-RED-IBLE!!
Thanks for the empty cheerleading.
I think it is hilarious that RED products look like some kind of camera toy from the 80's that I'd find in my parents basement. Don't get me wrong... I would die to have one.
Why does it look like a prop out of the first star wars?
Even film cameras have a maximum panning speed due to shutter roll. It's just the way it is.
Red haven't done it again until they can actually start fufilling orders. They make the most awesome vapourware.
Please Red can you just make the damn camera and workflow work this time.
There's nothing wrong with their "workflow". You'd be dealing with the same issues (or more) if you scanned film.
The pissing and moaning over the supposedly scary workflow is played out.
Woah what happened to SCARLET being around $3,000 and shooting 3k :(
What about it?
This announcement covers the Epic, not the Scarlet. RTFA.
RED Oct. 30th Announcement
After reading the latest announcement from RED I've had some major revelations that I'd like to share with everyone. After the announcement, there was a general consensus among those who wanted a Scarlet that, yes, they will want a Scarlet but why do they feel like they are getting dicked around with? Well, there's a lot of reasons. Let's look at a few of them.
Release Schedule:
Summer 2008 (Possibly Earlier) - Here comes the announcement of a 3k (resolution) Camera for around $3,000. Considering that this shoots higher resolution than 32mm film (around 2k resolution) it was a BIG deal. The common slogan was "3k for $3k!" and it was being paraded around. It would ship early 2009 (Jan-Apr. estimated)
Fall 2008 - Instead of releasing the camera, they announce they are changing the specs of all the camera's and implement a really cool, revolutionary way to buy your equipment. Modular. Great, but the camera is pushed back six months for release. The fixed lens camera is $3750 -- It's still the 3k for 3k deal, but it gives you the additional add-ons to have you read to shoot immediately. Camera's should start releasing summer 2009.
Later in Fall 2008 - New specs and prices are released. Most don't consider this a huge change from before as everything is modular. But essentially the same.
Summer 2009 - We haven't heard anything for a while. People are nervous. A statement is released saying they are being slow to release the camera's because their manufacturers dropped, went out of business, and the people at RED are working less hours (expected because of the economy). They said this would be a 2-3 month delay, not bad.
Now, 2-3 months later or more - We are told that the Scarlet specs have changed AGAIN, that the price is going to go up (we don't know how much except that the camera is better than before so it makes sense for a price raise). Also, there's no announcement as to the release of the Scarlet. All the attention is on the EPIC (their $28,000 camera) which is going through beta and won't release for several more months officially, except to loyal RED customers, who will be working through the Beta and determining when it will be finished. Assuming the Scarlet goes through a similar process, it may be another 6 months before we see a Scarlet. However, this could be a false assumption and we may see one at any moment. RED isn't telling us much. Also, with the announcement we learn that there will be ANOTHER announcement at the end of November...How about they actually release something and stop making announcements?
So those who want a Scarlet feel like they are an afterthought now, instead of really part of the game.
The company uses the phrase "Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change. Count on it." And they have hidden behind this several times now. Many people have saved up and postponed other purchases to get this camera based on the rough idea they'd have it within 6 months after the announced date. People expect delays. Then the company changes their mind, scraps the product and makes a new one, and pushes to release that instead. When people complain, they throw this sentence at them and tell them they shouldn't have expected anything. What kind of business model is that? Upset because you made a SLOGAN, a major announcement, then didn't even remotely stick to it on any ground?
Many Scarlet users still wish they had the original Scarlet. It could be released, they could be shooting professional quality videos, and they could be rolling with it. Then the new products could've come along and they could've chosen to upgrade or not. But right now, a lot of hype was created by RED that they didn't live up to and now they are hiding.
You say "No they aren't!". Actually, they have been actively deleting posts on the forums regarding the Scarlet wanters who are upset:
"Just a reminder.. if you wanna bitch.. do it in the complaint department. If you do it here.. your threads will just be deleted so you are wasting your time." Jarred Land, who is on the RED Staff.
Another great quote from Jarred, "...if there is one thing that does piss me off, is when people keep saying "RED PROMISED THIS, RED PROMISED THAT," . We never promised anything." On this basis, RED is allowed to announce anything they want including Time Machines, a $1 iPod, or a decent video camera and we should have the same expectations of all of those products coming into actuality. Forgive us for thinking that you are actually going to attempt to accomplish something that you announce.
Shortly before this statement he writes, "We never targeted the consumer market nor ever announced intentions to target the consumer market. Scarlet, all the way down the the removable 2/3." In other words -- your excuse that a consumer used to be able to afford the announced camera and no longer can because of the price raise is bull crap because we never intended to "sell to that market", even though they made a low priced camera perfectly capable. It just wasn't "officially announced", though even if it was "officially announced" we couldn't believe it, because nothing they say can be taken as factual.
Posters on the forums who previously owned a RED One because they could afford it (around $50,000 for the camera and all it's accessories to be functional) are mocking the Scarlet users telling them they aren't professional, are whining, or simply don't understand how great RED is.
"So all this Veruca Salt-ish, "I want it now, Daddy" sentiment makes me realize just how important a bomb-proof program is...if RED released even a mildly buggy or less than perfected camera to this impatient next generation of users, they'd be opening a big can of whup-ass on themselves." Meryem Ersoz on the forums.
Everything is released less than perfect these days. Operating Systems, Blu Ray Players, External Hard Drives, everything having to do with technology. They all go through upgrades and they all go versions. To argue that they are just going to complain on this basis is silly, and yet it's used to attack these Scarlet fans.
One person whose post was deleted from the main part of the website for everyone to see and moved somewhere else gives the following examples of mistreatment:
"The Disappointed: We wanted the Scarlet that was initially promised. Stop making it so complicated.
The Apologists: They are trying it to do it right. Patience!
The Disappointed: We want them to do it right as well but we don't all the bells and whistles.
The Apologists: Too bad! Suck it up.
The Disappointed: But we want to shoot now. We are ready to suck it up. We understand it might be difficult earlier on.
The Apologists: That's what you are saying now. When you get a half finished camera, you will come here bitching and moaning.
The Disappointed: No I promise. I am just disappointed, it has been almost two years now.
The Apologists: You can't be a truly Red fan if you sound disappointed. This is an independent company. Jim is so [great]!!!
The Disappointed: We agree. We saved all our pennies doing piddly things to buy this camera.
The Apologists: Well, you should have gotten a Red fool! Like I did! Haha!
The Disappointed: It is out of my price range. I just want a camera that has a good codec and an interchangeable lens setup.
The Apologists: You clearly must be an amateur. You need more than just that. You need 5k. You need a full frame sensor. You need [this] and [that].
The Disappointed: Not really. When I need something like that I'll will rent.
The Apologists: In any case, you should appreciate the honesty of Red. They have been open with their development. No other company does that.
The Disappointed: You're right. I'm being honest too."
I have had 5 of my posts removed that had valid concerns and while they were attacked, the attacks were completely de-bunked and I was standing uncorrected -- shortly before they were deleted and I was told to stop "bitching" on the main page.
One of the forum moderators that these conversations were happening on explained why the posts were deleted. He said:
"So you are saying we are dishonest by moving your post to another thread?
Reason that many posts were removed was that they were repetitive and didn't add anything new to the discussion (FYI: there were also many "positive" comments removed)."
To which my response was, "If repetitive and not adding anything is the requirement to have a post removed than you should remove 90% of the posts on there...". Many of the positive posts, and many of the off topic posts have been left on the board. It's a significant number of the negative posts that have been removed. Also, I have yet to hear back from the moderator.
Some of the RED One owners are a little upset as well. A cut off date was establish where you could no longer trade in your Red One for the new Epic (This is similar to if you bought a Windows Vista/XP laptop in the last month before Windows 7 released, they give you a new Windows 7 at a discount or free). The cut off date was the day before the announcement. Um...Unfair at all?
So, you tell me, why are the Scarlet users feeling mistreated? If you haven't any clue, then you need to try and look at things from others perspective.
Given all of this, most of the people at RED are awesome. The users are mostly friendly (though fanboyish). I still look forward to the release of the Scarlet especially once we hear the details on the specs and the price. But as a company they should really be careful of the image they are portraying. I saw a good number of people interested in the Scarlet that no longer are interested in it. Red claims the market is "cold" right now, but it may be because they created that cold market for themselves in some ways. Obviously the economy plays a large part in it, but they don't seem to be helping themselves.
They really said they are not targeting the consumer market? In the late 2008/spring 2009 they were going to destroy Canon and Nikon on the DSLR front with their new DSMC.
If you want to read something hilarious dig up the "DSLR-killer" thread in the reduser forums.
yawn........
Wake me when they have something more than a web site for this stuff please, how long has it been since this stuff was 'announced'?... (by the sounds of how many releases on EPIC & no word on Scarlet thats likely at least another year or two away......)
It looks more like Ben Heck modded a Nindendo controller into a camera.
At 28K I would expect something slightly less....horrendous. I know I'm not supposed to judge a book by its cover but dang. That is an ugly piece of crap.
I half expect to see it turn into a Go-Bot. (Notice I didn't say Transformer because everyone knows Transformers were better. ;)
Oh c'mon. $28,000. Now let's see, an overpriced piece of metal from
"Terminator"... I'll pass.
Where is my Canon 5D mkII?? I will rather use the change on a new
car.
@(Unverified)
Are you sure you know what you're talking about...?
This is a killer product!
But let's not forget about the rest of the accessories you HAVE to buy in order to make out most of this beast. It's a costly business. But, still, the prices are going down tremendously.
I can't wait until all the tech will be so accessible to everyone that the only truly high expense should go to the creative people behind the projects. That's gonna change the game, finally.