Motorola MILESTONE does what DROIDon't
By Chris Ziegler 
posted Nov 2nd 2009 7:14PM
posted Nov 2nd 2009 7:14PM
Nor is Google's:"We work very closely with our carriers and partners to deliver differentiated consumer experiences on our mobile devices. At times, similar devices come to market with different features, depending on the region, carrier preferences and consumer needs."
So let the speculation -- and the firmware hacking -- begin."The Android 2.0 framework includes support for multi-touch. As with other platform technologies, such as the text-to-speech engine, carriers and OEMs can choose to implement it."
[Image via mobile-review]
Why would Apple be responsible for it? There are already other phones in the US that have multitouch.
Because of Google and Apple's 'special' relationship. Though they have had a few tiffs lately.
That still makes no sense. You can't just selectively assert trademark/patent rights over one company and not another because you don't like them very much. Either they own a patent on the whole technology, in which case they would have applied it to phones like the Pre as well, or they don't, in which case they don't have the power to do anything against Android.
This is the biggest non-issue for me.
With the exception of viewing large photos (very rare), double-tap to zoom is ALWAYS more efficient for me. You don't have to hold the phone with 2 hands to do it, and (at least in Safari) it always zooms to the optimal size, when viewing text bodies, pictures, etc.
Until multi-touch is used beyond this functionality, i could seriously give two shits about it. Just sayin'
^^^^
agreed multi touch is nothing more than a flashy gimmick double tap is more efficient cause it allows you to do stuff with one hand.
@andy
yes, thats exactly how you loose your trademark, it must be defended rigorously and in every instance.
On the subject of multi-touch, if this article is correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi_touch apple only owns the trademark to the TERM "Multi-touch" as opposed to the technology.
You can EASILY use ONE hand to zoom as I do on my phone all the time. Try it.
I like gestures... like one where you circle clockwise/counter-cw for scalable zoom in/out like a virtual scroll wheel
Android 2.0 supports gestures, too
Multi-touch falls firmly in the "cool" category. Can't be located anywhere near the "useful" category. Only time I use it is to show others what it's like, I much prefer double tapping to zoom.
Back in the day, when I went in to the Apple store and was playing with the 1st or 2nd gen iPhone, I didn't even know about the pinch input.
When I was browsing the internet I was double tapping it to zoom in. It was only when I asked about zooming out (after having zoomed in several times on one site) that my friend told me about the pinching method.
...
-- AppleDoesn't have more than a few hundred really useful apps
-- AppleDoesn't have a real keyboard
-- AppleDoesn't have an explorer like File Manager
-- AppleDoesn't have a variety of hardware configurations
-- AppleDoesn't have an OS that has been updated in 3 years
-- AppleDoesn't have more than a few games that are worth playing
See how easy that is?
DroidDoesn't have 100,000+ Apps - It runs Android. The app count will be up there in no time, and honestly, do you need 100,000 apps?
DroidDoesn't have an excellent Virtual Keyboard - Actually the virtual keyboard does quite well, and the physical keyboard, though slightly squished (and I think it could've used a longer spacebar) is a nice addition to have.
DroidDoesn't have a File Manager - It has an easy to understand user interface, and files can likely easily be managed on Windows (maybe Mac too?) though we will have to see once the device releases stateside on Friday.
DroidDoesn't have Solid hardware - The hardware looks pretty solid to me, and the one I tried down at the Verizon store in preparation for launch was definitely responsive.
DroidDoesn't have what seems to be the best mobile OS - Android easily competes with iPhone OS and probably with WebOS (which I have not tried yet). What things will come down to there is really whether a person wants to say they have an iPhone or a Droid.
DroidDoesn't have the number one spot of best phones on CNET, PCMAG, etc. - It's not even out yet and it is already being heralded as a killer phone, claiming abilities that the iPhone does not have, as well as a solid and updateable build free of charge.
DroidDoesn't have sexy hardware - Looks sexy to me.
DroidDoesn't have 3D games over 100 MB - It will. It is definitely an OS to take advantage of that kind of nature, and the hardware is there.
DroidDoesn't have augmented reality apps - If I recall correctly, it does.
DroidDoesn't have 45+ million users - Droid isn't out yet. And it does have the Verizon network, which provides more complete coverage.
DroidDoesn't have a great web browser - Yes, it does.
DroidDoesn't have onboard memory - It does come with a good sized memory card, and expandable memory, which the iPhone lacks.
DroidDoesn't have support for apps that exceed its minimalistic ROM memory - I am unaware as to this and cannot effectively respond.
DroidDoesn't have iTunes - Um... that's a plus? iTunes is not exactly the be-all end-all of music interfaces. It's kinda... meh.
@ Andy
Well the arguement is that Apple either requested that android not have multi touch or that Google didn't include it as a favor to apple because of their close business relationship.
We already know that Apple doesn't like others using multitouch from the pre so the logic is that to appease Apple Google washes its hands of the issue and leaves it to manufactures such as HTC to activate the feature.
This is a total conspiracy theory though that I'm not sure I buy.
You guys are forgetting that multi-touch is not only for zooming. Many apps require multiple fingers to trigger more advanced functions.
Europe wins again!! Ha!
Droid doesn't have augmented reality apps? Android was the FIRST platform to have such an app, with an iphone version following after a few months.
The most important function of multi touch is on the soft-keyboard. Without multi-touch you can only press one key at a time, this slows you down considerably. Pinch-zoom is simply icing, and doesn't even mattered if the keyboard is not multi-touch optimized.
DroidDoesn't have an excellent Virtual Keyboard
...and neither does Apple.
DroidDoesn't have a File Manager
...and neither does Apple.
DroidDoesn't have Solid hardware
...and neither does Apple.
DroidDoesn't have what seems to be the best mobile OS
...and neither does Apple.
DroidDoesn't have sexy hardware
...and neither does Apple.
DroidDoesn't have augemented reality apps
...yes it does
DroidDoesn't have a great web browser
...and neither does Apple.
DroidDoesn't have support for apps that exceed its minimalistic ROM memory
...and neither does Apple.
Haha Hilarious! Future is definitely bright for Android.. But I don't see Motorola anywhere in it!
except for like, you know: DROID.
also, this is an Apple/Google tiff isn't it? not with Moto
Droid will fail... nobody will embrace the crappy keyboard just like they didn't with G1 (where is that phone now?)
Enter Droid Tablet
@Bralk
Good point. it will probably come with multitouch and be smaller since it doesn't have a physical keyboard. It just might be worth the wait. Although, I believe the camera on it won't have a flash.
Dang all this talk about the apple tablet I hadn't even thought about droid tablets... But wow that'll be an interesting competition now.
agreed...theyve made a bold statement with their most the slew of android devices right now but i dont think they have the stability to keep it going. however...i am actually quite intriqued by the countless htc being broadcasted here in the states! really didnt expect to see that...
Go Samsung beat the sh*it out of Motorola
My Pre does it all so, until I see something better, (nothing so far) I'll keep my Palm Pre and stay very happy with it.
The is still missing native hardware SDK access, and the programs available to it are quite lacking, especially in the game department.
Otherwise, im happy with mine. And, the browser is still better on the Pre than on Android. But i'm still drawn to Android for some reason. Maybe when the X3 comes out ill be more willing to switch.
Why would apple keep try to block multitouch on this device and not the Hero, or HD2. Did moto just not want to pay licensing fees?
Apple does not own multitouch. as much as i hate Apple and would love for it to be true that they blocked it on the DROID i really have a hard time believing they did.
"We work very closely with our carriers and partners to deliver differentiated consumer experiences on our mobile devices. At times, similar devices come to market with different features, depending on the region, carrier preferences and consumer needs."
Well they're certainly beating around the bush about something. Either Apple or Verizon, perhaps thinking they'd be sued, likely did request this feature to be removed.
But there is no reason for Apple to make such a request, and even less reason for Motorola to comply with it if they did. Clearly Apple can't sue anybody over the use of multitouch, or they would already have sued Palm.
If anyone other than Motorola is responsible, it's Verizon, gimping their handsets yet again.
I've been enjoying pinch to zoom on my G1 for ages now, this will be on the droid in a split second...provided that heres a way to root.
Probably won't even need root this time around, since 2.0 supports it already anyway. Hopefully we'll just need patched programs.
-Taylor
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense why we don't have it. The Google/Apple relationship has been severed. Apple can trademark the term "multitouch," but I don't wee how they can patent the actual idea of a multiple touch interface. Hell, it's actually been around since before the iPhone had it.
When you read up on multitouch, you'll see that Apple went to great lengths to protect it for themselves. They went as far as "buying" the professors from the university where the technology was developed (and patented), and I'm sure Apple pays them a healthy yearly sum for the rights to use it, as well as the rights to sue others who borrow it.
so explain the pre? how did they get away with multitouch? apple cant do anything about other devices using it
Something tells me Palm has some patents of their own that are keeping them quite safe from Apple's potential attacks.
It is interesting why Apple isnt going after HTC though. I guess it takes some time to get a patent lawsuit ready, so there may still be time.
hacked in 3...2...1...
Personally I would never use 2 fingers on a cell phone touch screen. So the point really to me is moot.
I am constantly using both hands/thumbs on my G1 with the physical QWERTY... slide the screen down and I am in perfect position to use multitouch functions... using some applications in landscape, especially browser, is great!
**gasp**
you are so not "in".
off with this man's head!
Translation: "Verizon wants to charge for it"
$3.99/month
Mulit-touch? There's a hidden fee for that.
I would definitely pay for mullet-touch!
Awesome headline.
As soon as I get this phone I will either hack it to run sense ui 2.0 version or I will get a cyanogen 2.0 build when it comes out or I will get the GSM version firmware
I love how if the US is lucky enough to get a decent phone launched in the first place, they inevitably make it inferior in some way. I hope it doesn't end up like the whole Touch Pro/Diamond processor/memory difference.
I would go with option B.
Sense UI just wouldn't feel right on this.
That was meant to be a reply to asoccer345.
Thanks! I will do that. But you forgot to reply!
It's "doesn't" not "don't". Aren't you supposed to be the editor-in-chief of Engadget Mobile?
Perhaps you haven't seen Verizon's ad campaign: http://vzw.com/droid
perhaps he has, but iDon't is still more gramatically correct then DroiDon't.
i'm just sayin'.
I knew that comment would bring Ziegler out. I was gonna say that he forgot a d in DROIDon't but then I figured he must have just wanted the IDon't in the tittle. Nice job imo.
The Droid DOES have multi-touch. Just not "pinch and zoom" in the browser. They are two different things. They chose not to implement it in the browser because the lack the spine to go against crybaby Apple who would be more than happy to sue them to try and block competition and inhibit innovation and growth. I'd appreciate it if you blogs (not just engadget) would quit using the two as the same thing just to get more hits and traffic. I come here for information, not wording and crap used to start a flame war in the comments between Kool-aid drinkers and delectable pastry eaters. Multi-touch and "pinch zoom" are not synonymous.
And I think Google should pull their weight in the matter and trade. If I were Google I'd say to Apple, "Let us use "pinch zoom" in the States without your bitching about it, and saying we stole your idea when that's all you do is steal others ideas and call it your own innovation, or we'll pull ALL Google apps off the iPhone, and you'll never get Google Nav."
The HTC Sense UI has pinch and zoom. Google/Motorola/Verizon who ever it was, just decided against implementing it in the browser. Personally I'd take the touch magnify that the Touch Pro 2, Imagio, and Pure have over the pinch zoom any day.
@ JKA22
well said, mijo!
Applep is the rimary developer of WebKit and appears to hold the IP rights to WebKit. I'm wondering if Android's WebKit based browser has something to do with Google/Verizon's decision to exclude the multi-touch gestures from the browser.
Being that it's LGPL and BSD licensed, I wouldn't be at all supprised to hear Apple strong-armed them into excluding it by saying they will just stop publishing the code.
Josh stated quite positively that there isn't ANY form of multitouch in the device. Its not just gone from the browser, its gone from the entire phone. He said multiple times that even the keyboard isn't multitouch. It doesn't exist here.
@Ryan: Problem is, the main components (WebCore, JavaScriptCore) are licensed under LGPL. With those they can't just decide not to release the source with any new (binary) versions of Webkit they'll release. And as for the rest - I don't think the mighty G will have problems finding able programmers to step in and create/maintain a fork. It's not like the currently available code base is going to vanish overnight.
@Brenden
Well something is multi touch on the Droid. It says on droiddoes.com under Turn-by-Turn Nav. "I tried pinching and typing funny" is not extensive testing. I won't be satisfied until a multitouch app works on official 2.0 software on another phone but not on the droid.
fwiw, the droid does site lists multi-touch on the features spinner. look between turn-by-turn and android 2.0. it's not linked to content buy why would it be there if it wasn't supported?
It definitely smells fishy but I dont see this being a huge issue for me if I were to get the DROID. I won't though...still sitting on my hands waiting for a proper AT&T android device (Come on SE!!)
The Milestone may have 'pinch and zoom' but the Droid has the awesome aGPS/Google Maps™ Navigation... for free! Milestone does not.
Droid > Milestone
How long do you really think that exclusivity is going to last?
If I'm not mistaken, won't all Android 2.0 phones have Google Navigaton? So the milestone will have it? Or has google not programmed European maps yet?
It's not in the specs as far as I can tell, krische. Probably a euro thing.
http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/XW-EN/Consumer-Products-and-Services/Mobile-Phones/ci.Motorola-MILESTONE-XW.alt
Google Maps with Navigation is US-only for now, and probably for a while. I suspect this has something to do with geographic data sources. Google recently ended its contract with TeleAtlas (now a subsidiary of TomTom, hmmm...) to provide US geo data, and is using its own data for the US. It's still using TeleAtlas for the rest of the world though. Perhaps Maps with Navigation relies on some features of Google's own data that TeleAtlas' set doesn't provide, or perhaps Google doesn't want to use a competitor's data source for its navigation service.
And this is why handing out patents like candy is bad.
It has nothing to do with Apple. Idiots.
Android firmware is easier to mess with than iPhone OS. Someone'll take multitouch off of the Euro-version and get it onto the Droid.
YEAH!!!!!!!!!
But does either have Blast Processing, Tony Montana or Michael Jackson's Moonwalker?
Genesis does what DROIDon't.
my guess this hack will be waiting for us on friday
@iJames White
What does Microsoft have to do with this? This involves Motorola, Google, and Verizon with speculation that Apple might be involved. See those key words? speculation, and might.
@What a surprise
I'm don't use any Apple products, nor do I like them very much, but if you're going to yell out your hatred for Apple, might I suggest going to an article more suited for it? There was a good one about flash on the iPhone earlier that should work well. Or at least wait until we know whether or not Apple was involved in some way.
This and the stupid LG Chocolate touch thing (not having the BL40 and bringing some crap handset instead) makes me wonder if maybe Verizon has not quite completely cast off their past controlling ways just yet.
How dare you! Apples have been found to be a scrumptious fruit in our times. In fact, it is a delicacy in some countries, i find them quite enticing when dipped in caramel, causing a tingle of exitement on my tongue.
If you despise such exquisiteness, please refrain from blind repugnance, sir.
* sticks nose into air *
SMACK! iJames white is rubbing the now red- flushed cheek where Mr. Smartmouth had stricken him
"Chap, you do not talk nonsense, only adults at this table. Now stand in your corner before i bring the shingles to your behind!"
the usefulness of multi-touch is not in the gimmicky pinch&zoom, but in the virtual keyboard and games.
have you guys tested if the virtual keyboard on droid supports buffering of multiple key presses?
FUCCKK YOU DORPHIN AN A WHAREEE!!!!!
Wow! I can't believ this android fanboys n iphonehaters getting their panties in a bunch due to android showing some basic multitouch ability? Lol. That iPhone unveiled n set standard in Jan 2007. iPhone lead n haters will follow. Nov 6 well see how big of a facepalm droid does when it fails to sell million in 72 hours like iPhone has done back to back twice July of 2008 n again June 2009. Sick dude. Just shows desirabilty Rate of a smartphone.
Do I have to repeat this?
Keyboards are so 2003!
Whenever I see someone with a keyboard on a cell I I feel sorry for them.
My cell touchscreen. My car stereo touchscreen. My digital camera all touchscreen.
Get with times tech bloggers! It's 2009!!!!!!
Here in southern California l.a. Area keyboards are looke down upon.agree?
Go lakers!!!
What I do not understand is why Verizon lists multi-touch as a feature on the verizon/droid website?
http://phones.verizonwireless.com/motorola/droid/
Multi Touch is listed as a feature right between Turn by Turn Nav and GTalk.
Multi-Touch is more than pinch-zoom. Pinch-zoom is arguably one of the more pointless uses of multi-touch. Multi-touch is most useful for rapid typing on virtual keyboards, when fingers tend to press down on more than one key at a time. Supposedly the DROID supports other multi-touch features like that, but some reviewers are saying that it's not actually working. Perhaps that feature is broken for now but it's clear that some form of multi-touch is intended to be supported by the DROID, just not pinch-zoom.
It kinda sucks they don't have multitouch on Verizon's iteration of the phone but how long do you think it will be until someone makes a custom rom or patch that allows this?
I use pinch zoom on my Pre all the time and it's great.
Here is my 2cents... the Android 2.0 kernel is capiable of multi-touch but has to be enabled by the manufactures. In Motorola lack of devlopment in the smartphone segment and this being only there second android phone, I dont think there with the times on what smartphone users really demand. both of motos phones are sliders which futher makes multi touch "pointless" to them. I also believe VZW is just as lacking from there smartphone offerings and there lack of listing to customers demands (I am 1 of thousands of pissed off storm users that see BB5.0 OS as an insult and a bullshit way of preventing storm users to demand an upgrade option like At&t did from iphone to iphone3g). on the other side of the pond where there phones are 1000x better multi touch is a standard and the operators know and understand that. there for it was neccisary for it to be available for launch of this phone. i dont believe that there is a conspiracy since HTC has multi touch, i think it is a continued failure of two american companies that are out of touch with american like the rest of wall street.
Motorola has already developed multi-touch, it's on the Milestone. This is an issue between Google, Apple, and Verizon.
So Google gave up multitouch for apple?
What has Apple done for Google?
If i was Google I would kick Apples ass their not doing them any good.
Multitouch for European Moto Milestone but not for Droid. In the shadow of the iDont campaign Verizon tryin to leave a door open for iPhone
having owned both and Iphone and a G1, I can easily say the Iphone has the best virtural keyboard. But, android wins hands down for me, I feel so much more free, and At least I can sync things without using the stupid usb cable
jajajaja X10 a real dissapoint
not a 32 gb internal memory
I pass
or
iPass
Android does look like a very positive reflection on the innovations that are coming to the operating system wars. All this apple fanboyism is nothing more then their fear that their dicks might get even smaller when something better.. Hell something better then the iphone already exists.. ITS CALLED A BLACKBERRY! ... Flashy gimmicks and useless apps isn't what makes a phone or operating system the best.. Knowing that it will work when you need it and having the support that backs the product up is where it matters... Google has a lot more experience in actually knowing what people want (hense why their search engine is still used over any other, even with microsoft attempted to reintroduce their search engine as BING)... I think Android will be a great tablet OS but still a little iffy on if it is a good phone platform (personal opinion.. nothing more)...
To me by blackberry curve (the 8330 one which is now old as garbage as most people know) has still held up and is even working amazing under the current leaked OS 5.0 which then was hybridized... I am waiting for the essex due to the trackball issues on the tour...
And all these numbers touting iphone is the best and beats droid.. just remember that blackberry holds a lot more market shares then the iphone does :)
The things I like about this phone have nothing to do with pinch zoom :)
Thin, Bigger screen, affordable addons that make things simpler (desk and car )
Multitouch for European Moto Milestone but not for Droid.
In the shadow of the iDont campaign Verizon tryin to leave a door open for iPhone.