PowerGenix NiZn rechargeable AA batteries: finally, some cells worth buying
By Darren Murph 
posted Nov 9th 2009 11:22AM
posted Nov 9th 2009 11:22AM
One of the major concerns with traditional NiMh rechargeables is just how weak they are, and just how quickly their longevity declines. With few exceptions, most of these cells can't actually power a dedicated hotshoe flash for more than a few minutes (if at all), and any application that demands a serious amount of power generally asks too much from these pricey tubes. Furthermore, these batteries also have a tendency to go from fully charged to empty faster and faster as time goes on, and while we understand that said phenomenon is simply a harsh reality when dealing with devices such as this, we always felt that the performance decline was unacceptable given the price premium attached to 'em.
Enter PowerGenix, a little known company with a lot of hustle and a pocket full of promises. The company is selling 1.6v AA Nickel Zinc rechargeables at a variety of outlets now, with the MRSP for a 4-pack sitting at $14.99; the special charger (needed for charging NiZn batteries) can be purchased along with four cells for $34.99 (again, that's MSRP). Needless to say, both are available for less if you poke around a bit. We began using these with exceptionally low expectations, and six wedding shoots later, we're now grinning from ear to ear. Our Nikon Speedlight SB-600 chews through standard batteries like a voracious beast, only squeezing out around 200 to 300 shots on a warm, lucky day. The PowerGenix cells, however, allowed us to fire the flash anywhere between 300 and 400 times in all conditions, and even after running them bone dry and juicing them back up for months on end, we've yet to see 'em take a performance hit.
Naturally, these will also keep your wireless keyboard, mouse or remote ticking for a long, long time, but it's their ability to shine even in high-drain applications that really impressed us. The economics of it just make these tough to ignore: a 4-pack of Energizer's 'Ultimate Lithium' AA cells can be had for around $7 to $10, while the 4-pack of PowerGenix batteries cost just a few bucks more (charger notwithstanding). If you're a power user that eats through 8, 12 or more AA cells at every stop, it's a no brainer to make the switch to NiZn. If you find yourself buying batteries around once per year, you're probably better off sticking with your current habits. But hey -- at least there's finally a great solution for those of us who've been procuring more batteries than toilet paper over the past few years.
I didn't know 1.6V counted as "HIGH VOLTAGE"
Compared to the usual 1.2V from NiMh, yes it is.
A bit of a silly marketing claim, yes, but that's compared to standard AA's that are usually 1.5V and most rechargeables that run between 1.2V and 1.3V.
It does for AA batteries...1.5V is a fully charged AA.
Its most likely a marketing ploy, which if its as good as its claimed to be then use any tactics neccessary.
Eneloop just got 0.4Vpwned
So now we have AA's that are STILL not 1.5V.
@BigD145 Neither are regular alkaline AA cells. I just tested a several fresh ones and they were all just about 1.6V. 1.5V is an approximation, and it sounds like these batteries provide roughly the same voltage as regular AA batteries. This will be great for devices that don't deal well with the 1.3~1.2V of other rechargeable AAs.
Sorry to attach to the top message, but someone has to do Darren's job for him. Here is a data sheet from Powergenix:
http://www.powergenix.com/docs/powergenix-specs-aa.pdf
The punch line. Capacity is no miracle, It's 1500mAhrs typical (1500 x 1.6V = 2400mWhrs), but still no info on # of cycles or self discharge.
OK. More info in this press release from June:
http://www.en-genius.net/site/zones/greenpowerZONE/product_reviews/grnpowp_060109
Key points:
1. quoted: "self-discharge rate is a bit under 1%/day, better than Ni-MH but not as good as Li-Ion" - This is crap. It's the same as old NiMH but not close to Eneloop types which lose only 15% in year. And they don't say how it might be worse is less than ideal conditions.
2. quoted: "will typically deliver 500 – 1000 charge cycles but, like its lithium-based counterparts, a multi-cell pack will require additional management electronics to match charge/discharge characteristics or it will deliver only 200 – 250 charge cycles" - This is not good. They are saying it needs high-end battery management to get good cycle life. So much for dropping these in your speedlight.
It looks like their only advantage is high current charge/discharge capability. That's nice for EVs and power tools, but not that important for cameras, and consumer stuff. NiMH is already pretty good at high current. In order for these to be useful, they have to improve the self discharge. The importance of that can't be overstated.
sweet! are you doing the same kind of test on the Eneloops? I'm curious to see how those hold up as well.
Yeah, I'm really interested to know how these stack up against the Eneloops. I love my Eneloops, it's hard to imagine how I got along without them.
I'd definitely love to see the Eneloops stacked up against this, I use four AAAs in my Harmony 550 remote and it seems to last 3 months or even more with fairly heavy use (I do love my volume button).
Not only that, but the need for a proprietary charger is kind of annoying, just how many charges can you get out of this battery?
I just bought some eneloops to replace my Xbox 360 quick charge, and the batteries last like 2-3 times longer (unscientifically). I got 4 with the charger for like $20, which is a way better deal than the 360's for $30 with 1 battery pack and $15 more for another. There are 2 downsides though; 1: I have to take them out of the battery pack instead of popping it right in the charger, and 2: they don't turn off the controller before it's about to die to give you a warning, and once it turns off it's completely dead. Definitely worth it IMO.
Ya, I would be all over these if I could charge them in my eneloop charger.
I'd love to see you test these along side the Sanyo Eneloops. I have poured quite a bit into the Eneloop batteries, and I do love them. If there's something significantly better, I'd like to know!
I'm curious if you can charge theses in the eneloop charger?
How are you going to charge these in a regular charger?
THIS IS 1.6V
are you guys that stupid?
and I'm thinking a 4 battery charger is a little anemic... my speedlight takes 5 batteries, so I'll be sitting through 2 charge cycles? Yah, no.
I bought some of the Energizer badged eneloops (the ones with the white top) from Target a while back for use in my Speedlight SB-600 (same as the reviewer) and can say I get about the same results. I used to get about 220-250 flashes out of standard AAs and maybe even 300 out of Lithium AAs, but with the eneloops, I've been getting right around 350-375 shots. After about 10 recharges, I haven't really noticed any decreases, and I even left them in the SB-600 for 4 months and got about 300 shots out of them without recharging.
Talk about a fluff piece. There are more words setting up the battery review than the review itself. The only info about the batteries is that they used them for "months on end" without losing capacity, and they got 300-400 flashes out of them. No info about how long they take to charge, starting and ending voltage measurements, storage loss (esp. compared to eneloops which are getting very popular), nothing.
@DR, @kit - the short answer is no, these won't work in the Eneloop charger. the Eneloop batteries are 1.2V and these are 1.6V. on top of that the chemistry is different. the Eneloops are Ni-MH whereas these are a new form, NiZn (Nickel-Zinc), so the difference in charging conditions is probably enough to cause....well, let's just say it could problems. if you're lucky it would be limited to simply ruining your batteries.
How many mAh are these rated at?
Yeah c'mon Engadget do an Eneloop vs comparison. My 2 AA Eneloops last about 2 months in My 360 control with rumble on. The other two i have, have been powering My toothbrush for the last 6 months and still going strong.
@pasty
don't expect too much yet, engadget have only been testing them for a few months
Finally some decides to go bunny thumping...
probably will make the switch, seems like these would really shine for 360 controllers. I've had a couple of m$'s play and charge packs die on me, the pos
"m$'s "
That's new and creative.
@richard
If it wasn't new and creative than your comment would be worthless.
e.g.
"the" That's a nice word, where did you learn that? The future?
He has a point, even if he's being annoying about it. Using the abbreviation "M$" or spelling it out "Micro$oft" is like seriously referring to authority structures as "the man."
$34.99? Where do you guys shop? $25.47 from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/PowerGenix-PGX1HRCH-4AAZiNc-1-6v-4-Position-Rechargeable-Batteries/dp/B0029NZVZ0
i believe they are shopping at the big box store called MSRP
They said "MSRP"
L2Read.
It clearly says MSRP..
No one has pointed it out yet but it says MSRP.
Lol @ Tony
No one has pointed it out yet, but lol @Tony
will definitely be checking these out.
between the wireless mouse, automated shower cleaner, pile of my son's toys, and our barrel full of remotes (yes, working on a logitech soon), this is definitely peaks my interest.
I'm very interested in this automated shower cleaner, as I'm sure my 3 other roommates would be.
it's called a woman.
Those use expensive batteries, called "jewellery".
Aaron X: Fantastic Analogy
Battery to jewelery
Amit
piques
What are the standard batteries that you are comparing them with?
Energizer's maddeningly expensive 'Ultimate Lithium' AA cells, the non-rechargeable ones.
Darren: Can you gather some PowerEX rechargeable and compare them? I do not know what voltage the PowerEX comes in, but they last forever. They are rated at 2700mAh. I have replaced all my non-chargeable batteries in my household with them.
It might be worth a look.
If only someone decided to go thump the comment system...
But you can actually recharge duracells, if you do it properly that is.
IF you do it properly, and IF you use a proper charger, and IF the batteries are really fully up to spec...
BUT you can only do it a couple of times safely, if you re-charge them too much they will start to leak, or will explode. But when you do recharge them, they do not last as long as a fresh battery.
I am sorry but that is too many IF's and BUT's for my comfort level.
@TavisJohn
Agreed. I was enthusiastic about recharging disposable batteries until I realized how poorly they perform. I bought the "correct" kind of charger and the instructions stated that to get an optimal charge you have to recharge the batteries when they are half depleted. I am not sure how I am supposed to tell when they are half depleted (since there is usually not a gauge on devices that use disposable batteries. But I can tell you that if you wait until they run out of juice then recharge them expect about 30% of the original run time. Second recharge is even worse.
In defense of recharging disposable batteries, I never had one explode.
The price on the charger plus 4 AA batteries is as low as $25 on Amazon (conveniently $25 and change, so free super saver shipping applies). Unfortunately, while their website seems to advertise the fact that the charger works with similar AAA batteries, I don't seem to be able to find any of them anywhere.
Was looking for something else, since the Rayovac Hybrids don't seem to have the voltage to last in my Apple wireless keyboard for more than a couple days. Would be very interested in seeing an endurance comparison between these, Eneloops, standard NiMHs, and alkaline....
Yes, finally a improvement in battery technology, it have been a long time since any major advance made it to the retail level.
How are these better than the Ansmann 2850 mAh batteries?
http://www.ansmann.de/cms/consumroot/batteries-battery-packs/rechargeable-batteries-nimh/mignon-aa/2850-mah-digital.html
If you do the math, you will see that PowerGenix batteries can hold 4 watt-hours of energy each, while the Ansmann batteries you linked to hold only 3.4 watt-hours that also evaporates as they just sit there. That's a huge difference.
"If you do the math, you will see that PowerGenix batteries can hold 4 watt-hours of energy each, while the Ansmann batteries you linked to hold only 3.4 watt-hours that also evaporates as they just sit there. That's a huge difference."
PowerGenix 1.65V * 1500mAh = 2.475 Wh
Annsmann 1.25V * 2850mAh = 3.560 Wh
Yeah, that's a huge difference indeed.
Actually, if you look VERY closely, they're definitely (and somewhat misleadingly) marked as providing 2500 mWh, not 2500 mAh as I think you're assuming. That is in fact substantially less total stored energy than the 3420mWh stored in the competitor. However, most devices will have some minimal operational voltage, and it could be that many devices will die out on NiMH batteries because the available voltage is just too low even as a substantial amount of energy remains in the battery. These could be more effective at squeezing useful juice out.
@illured
It clearly says 2500mWh on the side of the PowerGenix batteries.
That is 2.5 Watt hours by my maths.
I think the key question is what percentage of charge still remains after 1 month or 1 year of non-use. That's the huge advantage of the Eneloop/Rayovac Hybrid battery and the huge disadvantage of a normal NiMH battery like the Ansmann. What would sell me on the PowerGenix batteries would be comparable standing discharge rate to the eneloop/hybrid batteries. Otherwise, I could really care less that they have a higher voltage for almost all of the devices I use.
Can you just multiply the initial voltage by the mAh rating? I know the voltage drops (or rather, the internal resistance increases) as the battery is depleted. That way, the energy will be less than expected.
I'm just curious: I see you using the word 'cells' interchangeably with 'batteries' in this post. Do people really go around saying they need to get a new pack of AA or AAA cells? I've never heard it before, myself.
A 'battery' is comprised of cells - your laptop battery will probably contain between 3 and 6.
I suppose when considering an individual... er... "Duracel", either would work, as the battery is in fact comprising only one cell. Hence, a pack of cells, or a pack of batteries.
Colloquially, the terms have become interchangeable, and in the main, only those deeply involved in the area, science teachers, and the anal retentive will complain if you use either term out of turn.
Granted, these batteries are single cells...
So it is appropriate in this situation...
While "cell" might be acceptable and correct usage, I think this falls in line with other tech mumbo jumbo. Like saying "speed bump" for speed increase - a "bump in speed" is a lot different than a "speed bump" (slows cars down). I digress, I just think it would be less confusing to "common folk" to actually call these batteries. It's what we, even you nerds, would expect someone to call a AA. It's a battery.
It is perfectly acceptable to call the batteries cells if they are single cell batteries. In fact if you crack open multi cell batteries for laptops and remote control cars and such you will find they are comprised of several individual cells. Usually these individual cells are the exact same size and shape as a AA battery.
That's pretty good!
just 2500mAh? if you shoot continuously, fully charged NiMHs are cheaper and work just fine. If you like to use the battery once in a while, eneloop seems to be good. what's so good about those new ones?
2500mah @ 1.6v is more power than 2500mah @ 1.2v. It's 4 watts vs just 3.
Wrong, mr "engadget". These batteries are 2500 mWh, NOT mAh. See the many posts above you, but basically:
PowerGenix = 2.500 Wh
1.25V * 2500mAh = 3.125 Wh
Notice the Wh stands for 'Watt-hour', not 'watt' as you wrote.
I'm glad we are finally seeing some movement. We've been reading about instant charge, infinitely rechargable, power a city from a AA battery carbon cell batteries for over 5 years now, Lithium Silver fast charge, less memory batteries for about 4 years now etc etc and what do we have to show for it?
Pretty sure the stinkin Prius isn't even using LiPo batteries yet - what is the hold up with all these "etched" batteries and world saving batteries that keep resurfacing from different universities that never make it to Walmart or CVS?
bought up by energizer or Duracell or other company's and never shown the light of day so they can keep selling disposable batteries
The main concern with research is making sure it's safe, so you don't get sued out of existence if something goes wrong. If even Li-ion batteries can blow up so easily, imagine how much more a new, untested battery. Remember, all that energy has to go somewhere if something goes wrong.
While I agree safety testing is important, the contents of carbon nanotube batteries should be safe, and the cell structure of them should make them even safer if they actually contained materials like lithium batteries do.
What is the self discharge rate of these batteries?. I have not been able to find that "Crucial" piece of information. I am very happy with my
Sanyo Eneloops. The fact that the powergenix need a special charger is annoying, but if they have a low self discharge rate, they may be a contender. I will be checking out the other batteries mentioned in the comments.
Yeah, I wanted to know the self discharge rate too. Although I don't think these will beat Eneloops on the low power market, like Wiimotes and stuff.
Where are the AAA's ?
This is a strange review, it started out sounding like an advertisement or press materials. Who is this reviewer? I shoot weddings all the time, with a SB-900 as my main flash. I quote from the review "One of the major concerns with traditional NiMh rechargeables is just how weak they are, and just how quickly their longevity declines. With few exceptions, most of these cells can't actually power a dedicated hotshoe flash for more than a few minutes (if at all), and any application that demands a serious amount of power generally asks too much from these pricey tubes". Huh? I use regular energizer NIMH batteries for hundreds of flash shots before they need changing. What do you mean a few minutes, if you a burning through these batteries in a few minutes you are also melting your flash. Also with a proper charger that conditions the batteries they don't decline quickly.
I'm not saying these batteries aren't good, but the review is suspect. It starts out bashing batteries that flashes are designed for and work very well, then ends with saying how good of a price these new batteries are.
Oh and what wedding photographer is using an SB-600? It's OK as a remote flash, maybe that is your problem.
Agreed. The NiMh in my Canon 580EX last for a long while. Often, I find myself charging them even when they have plenty of power left, just because I've gone so long without charging them. They last forever in my 1-watt LED flashlight.
The review's attacks on nmih batteries threw my guard up too. I shoot events with an SB-800 and have never run out of juice during a night of shooting with my four year old batteries. Darren's methods are highly suspect.
Having said that, I'm a little interested in these batteries. The higher voltage should result in faster recharge times (without the pesky fifth battery) and will hopefully last longer. I wonder how they do in the cold.
That ignores the even more obvious - they said that they themselves get 200-300 out of their NiMh batteries... but yet they only last a few minutes?
And these are fantastic, because they get 300-400?
Pretty freakin wide margin of error here. It sounds like a combination of a) a paid advertisement, and b) initial results that are close to NiMhs, that the author wants to be incredibly optimistic about...
If you want to impress me with new AA's, talk about charge density and self discharge rate. I've already got a set of duracell rechargeables at around 2700mah - the other day, for kicks, I did a battery life test with my A650is - fully charged batteries, using the custom timer (10 pictures after pressing the flash, so I didn't have to handle the camera for the whole test), 1/3 with flash, 2/3 without flash. I got bored when I hit 800 pictures, and still had life left in the batteries. That's charge density I can live with. What I can't live with is the self discharge rate of the same batteries - over the course of a week or so, I'll get around 400 pictures before the batteries die. Pair the longevity of an eneloop with the power of my NiMh's, and then we'll talk...
I've never had a problem with regular batteries in my SB-800 (fifth battery included). Engadget should really get someone who knows photography to write for them instead of Darren, really.
I use NiMH batteries in my SB-600 and have had no issues with them running out of juice after a photoshoot (granted I like to use flash as little as possible, but still).
Sounds to me like an anecdotal sell.
Finally, i can use rechargeable batteries in my original gameboy!
Are all rechargers the same? I just bought a Duracell recharging kit, so it would be nice if I could just buy these batteries standalone ...
Different materials need different voltages to charge, being standard recharables are NiMh (nickel metal-hydride) and NiCd (nickel cadmium). While this on the other hand is NiZn (nickel zinc).
There are also NiMh batteries available that don't lose capacity over time when not used. Are these NiZn batteries really that much better? Also what is the benefit of the higher voltage? Can that even be used when the devices are designed for 1.2V NiMh or 1.5V standard batteries?
"for those of us who've been procuring more batteries than toilet paper" -- remind me to stay out of your bathroom.
Hey, Engadget!
You failed to mention how long it takes to recharge these batteries. What was your experience?
Yeah that's my question too, how can you write a whole bit and not mention that, obviously it can maw a HUGE difference if it's 16 hours or 2 hours,
So I went to their site and it says:
Speedy Recharge - The PowerGenix high discharge battery is capable of completely recharging in less than two hours and achieves 80% recharge within one hour, a key benefit for cordless power tools, electronics and many other application
http://www.powergenix.com/technology.php
Less cycle life though, 100 to 500 recharges compared to the 100-800 of normal ones, but meh, if that's the only flaw it's ok.
That's not very fast, most NiMH batteries can recharge in 1 hour, Rayovac has 15 minute ones.
Will these make my Tesla accelerate faster?
Well...The fact that these need a special charger are somewhat of a dealbreaker. I still think the best general charger out there is the La Crosse BC-9009. It comes with a set of pretty damn good rechargeables (which I use for my 360 controllers). 4 AAA's and 4 AA's with special adapters so that they can act as C & D cells. Pretty damn useful. My Play&Charge batteries die within a few months. The batteries that CAME with the La Crosse are still going strong recharge after recharge.
Between the above charger, and Sanyo Eneloops I don't think I'll need anything else.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/travelpower/b7fd/
It's cool that we're making progress, but I like to avoid these proprietary deals.
I love my La Crosse Charger. Since you can program the charge amperage, I wonder if I could just use La Crosse with these new batteries?
Also, can you charge Eneloops in your La Crosse?
I haven't had any problems with the Eneloops...I haven't actually had an opportunity to use too many of them. I'm still runnin off the LaCrosse ones for the most part. Seriously, I wasn't expecting such good batteries to come with it. I don't know how they would hold up to heavy duty camera use...but for general usage, it's great. The charger itself has a ridiculous number of charge options and makes it really useful for keeping them around. I'm more in favor of the discharge/recharge and reconditioning options.
Either way, I have 2 more packs of Eneloops ready to go, though I won't need em for a while.
The review isn't a review at all. No metrics are presented. Just a range of numbers. A lot of people, myself included get at least 300 pops from NiMH batteries in an SB-600. NiMH batteries last much longer than alkaline and other non-rechargeable chemistries in high-drain electronics like flashes.
Darren Murph is talking out of his ass in this "review" - which frankly is nothing more than an advertisement and should be labeled as such.
I'm not saying these batteries aren't any good, I'm just saying that this post is an ad and one full of complete horse crap. Period.
If they have a 25% higher charge capacity they will obviously last 25% longer, and if they are 1.6v there's a good chance they can charge a flash quicker too, or at least suffer less from the experience.
And if he says he used them extensively and can report from personal experience that they behave better for him than NiMh then assuming he isn't lying it's still a review of sorts, albeit missing details, thus it is a blog-review.
You should always cross reference anyway because even 'real' reviews are often bought and sold, in a good majority of the cases in fact (depending on the wealth of the producer of the product or course).
"Enter PowerGenix, a little known company with a lot of hustle and a pocket full of promises."
Promises as in little pieces of paper with "100" on them?
I'll have to get this when I get a good camera that takes AA batteries. Long lifetime for batteries = win for me.
This story is more a user comment than a review. Those PowerGenix Ni-Zn AAs might be interesting, but it would take an insightful comparison with Eneloop Ni-MH AAs to convince me. Comparing them with alkaline AAs (which are known to poorly handle high drains) does not tell much.