Psystar founders claim they cracked OS X, hackintosh scene is 'all wrong'
By Nilay Patel 
posted November 11th 2009 5:03PM
posted November 11th 2009 5:03PM
Really? Because we think there's a very large, very active hacking community out there that would disagree with you, Rudy.Rudy scoffs at the idea he borrowed from the Hackintosh scene. "The first thing you have to do is unlearn everything you've read online about how to make this work," Rudy says, "because it's all wrong."
P.S.- A full list of every other mistake in this piece after the break.
[Thanks, Chris]
- "Robert cracked the code behind Apple Computer's elegant operating system, OS X." Yeah.
- "Psystar legally buys the software..." That's not in question, really. The issue is what happens after Psystar buys OS X, when it modifies and redistributes it. You know, the specific thing Apple's suing about.
- "[Apple] filed a 35-page lawsuit in California claiming Psystar was selling "unauthorized" versions of OS X." Why is unauthorized in quotes? That's exactly what Apple claims.
- "As with Microsoft, which lost a multimillion-dollar antitrust decision in Europe in 2004, Apple is protecting an illegal monopoly, Psystar claims." Psystar has already lost this part of its case in California, and in the new Florida case Psystar only claims Apple has a monopoly on "premium personal computers," which pretty much invalidates the pricing argument and has driven the company to sell more expensive machines.
- "Robert says he found his own way around Apple's built-in security devices. The breakthrough meant that, among other things, the cheap machines were virtually immune to viruses and hackers." This is simply not true. OS X is vulnerable to hackers in its shipping form, and hacking EFI doesn't change that.
- "Psystar pays full price - $29 - for each copy of OS that it installs on its computers." $29 is the Snow Leopard upgrade price. The full price is $169 with iLife and iWork.
- "What's more, Apple holds that consumers who purchase an operating system don't actually own the software...It's a dubious-sounding arrangement that courts, at least so far, have upheld." It's not dubious to the courts, who've been upholding EULAs for over a decade across the country. (And striking some down, to be fair.)
- "Pretty much anyone with basic computer knowledge can make a cloned Mac for just the cost of a full tank of gas in an SUV." Actually, anyone can do this for free, without having to pay Psystar.
Now, don't get us wrong -- the personal story of Robert and Rudy Pedraza laid out in the article is moving stuff, but when the chips are down, we're picking the hacker and enthusiast community over a couple guys trying to make a buck selling unlicensed software, and that Hackintosh quote struck us as impossibly arrogant and extremely foolish. The OSx86 community is already wary of Psystar, and we're guessing no one's going to rush forward the next time these jokers need some help.
Americans invented fake tits!
somewhat eh about it. Makes you think though, if a company can claim to build an app that will install on any pc machine, and seems to be working for a lot of the people I know, they JUST MAY be onto something.
Im not arguing about the rest of your story, which is mostly on the way they redistribute the software (purchasing buying & modifying) just about your first statement:
"Rudy scoffs at the idea he borrowed from the Hackintosh scene. "The first thing you have to do is unlearn everything you've read online about how to make this work," Rudy says, "because it's all wrong."
Really? Because we think there's a very large, very active hacking community out there that would disagree with you, Rudy."
Or they could've phrased it as reinventing the wheel....
N41
First Apple's doing it wrong, and then the Hackintosh community they steal from is doing it wrong?
You point out the full cost of the OS, but then say that this can be done free. Certainly, that's true if you already have purchased the OS, but if done legally is never free.
Sure, sure -- I specifically meant that you don't have to pay for Rebel EFI to build a hackintosh.
You're violating the EULA either way, though -- "done legally" is a bit of stretch.
Question: if you were going to do this on a netbook right now, it wouldn't matter anyway right, because once you upgrade to 10.6.2 you wouldn't be able to boot regardless, am I correct?
Well at least with the Hackintosh community, this is only one of the few things they should "unlearn". And how to do that best? Swap the kernel out. Or do a few patches. Or wait for Apple to update the kernel source at opensource.apple.com.
I just don't get Psystar. They seem like they WANT to get spanked by Apple. Or even the FTC. Sure, the Hackintosh scene isn't something for everybody, it requires a bit of knowledge, but it seems to work better than this product.
Search around. Many people are saying that Psystar's product just doesn't work as advertised.
Does that make them those who need to "unlearn everything"?
Psystar's product worked for one woman who wanted to get a Hackintosh working but needed a working Mac to prepare a file to make it happen. I understand she used the free to try ISO from Psystar to get a sort of working copy of Mac OS installed. Then from that working but crippled installation she created the files she needed in the Hackintosh community to have a properly working Hackintosh. She installed Chameleon 2.0 from that working copy of Snow Leopard and rebooted without the Psystar disk.
Boom she then had a correctly working Hackintosh version of Snow Leopard with dual boot into various other OS like Windows and Linux too. IMHO that was a true hacker trick that was easy to do. With a wink she threw the Psystar disk away before I could stop her.
The hackintosh community started hacking the intel build of OS X almost from the moment Steve put up the 'Its True' slide. Discussion boards came up, then the developer build leaked and the scene got going for real. Things have come a LONG way since those early days, and we - collectively - learned a hell of a lot. The methods and patches have gotten extremely sophisticated and there is simply no way that these two *pricks* can claim they've figured it all out alone.
Many, many extremely intelligent people have come (and some, sadly, gone) from the scene, each adding patches, code, and gratuitious mental prods, always pushing the whole thing forwards. Its a community effort and one I am proud to have been part of from the very beginning.
Psystar are exactly what they appear - scumbags looking to make a quick buck.
- Rory
aka 'munky' on insanelymac / hackint0sh / projectosx
I dunno why, but hearing things from the opposite, correct side is really, really soothing.
I can't boast to have been a part of the community, but I can thank you for the benefits I've reaped. My "Mac Pro" was a hell of a lot cheaper than Apple would charge.
That's because it's not being regurgitated by some scumbag with ill intentions.
The coders and hackers that push OSS or freedom of code aren't in it for the money. They are in it to fill gaps they feel need to be filled. Bringing Mac OS X to every PC on the market doesn't have to be about mansions, diamonds, and fame. For most, it's about exercising freedom, nothing more.
Legal or not, there is still something heartwarming about those that spend their time increasing the quality of life for others in this maddening world where everyone is trying to turn a buck.
Hackers are there to prove that "where there's a will, there's a way"".
You have to love the effort they put in for free.
OK, why is the hackintosh community not considered scumbags for taking advantage of Apple? The hackintosh community is misappropriating Apple's intellectual property to Apple's financial detriment, and the communities gain. Is that not what Pystar is doing to the hackintosh community, only the community isn't suffering any real financial loss from it, so in a way what Pystar is doing to them is less evil then what the hackintosh community is doing to Apple?
Actually, its a lot simpler than that, and its nothing to do with freedom. While I can't speak for everyone in the scene (nor would I wish to), for me it was always about pure intellectual challenge. I dont want a hackintosh as a 'cheap mac' and in fact I actively dissuade people who pursue building one if its just for that reason.
I think the motivation for most was simply that classic hacker ethic - to see if it can be done.
Why did Steve Wozniak hack the phone system in his college years? Was it because he was too cheap to pay for phone calls? Of course not. He simply figured it could be done, so he did it.
"Here’s to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently. They’re not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them, disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them."
Which group does that sound more like - the hackers pushing the boundaries of whats possible, simply for the love of their hobby? Or these Psystar leeches, pushing the boundaries of good taste, simply for the love of money?
Peace.
- munky
WmPenn,
Because Apple's losing close to $0 to the hackintosh community. Hell, it might even be making them money.
Very few people are going to go hackintosh INSTEAD of buying a Mac. They might do it because they're curious but refuse to give Apple money. Or maybe they already have a Mac, or two, or three, and want to play with a hackintosh too.
Then there are the folks putting it on Netbooks; Apple doesn't even sell a competing product.
There are probably quite a few people who got their start on a hackintosh and then liked it enough to buy a computer directly from Apple.
I've got a hackintoshed T60 and 2 Macs (one at work, one at home). I love using the hackintosh, but it's only cemented in my mind that I need to buy an Apple laptop. I'm just not interested in having to worry about having to reinstall and redo my tweaks every time i want to upgrade some software.
Frankly, $1200 sounds damn reasonable for a 13" MBP that I'll keep for many years to come.
I somewhat appreciate Tom's response about his hackintosh being a LOT cheaper. I've really wanted a MAC but upgrading a $999/ configuration for going from 2gb ram to 4gb ram for $100/- when other pc makers charge 50 or even 25 for such an upgrade is somewhat too much for me. (and it's not the upgrade price that bothers me, it's the 999 that affects the entire package first)
I see pc makers leap frogging each others prices and using product differentiation strategies via marketing avenues and providing better customer services TO THE CONSUMER and such which brings them business. It becomes an EVEN playing field.
But Mac sticks to the upper end of the price spectrum. RE: the MAC ads, apple's customer service will be #1 for the simple reason is that there is no1 else who creates Macs and therefore no one else who will have a call center for Mac support.
It seems that while these folks are charging money for putting Mac on a pc, there continue to be folks who will advance the community and we appreciate them for who they are. While the hackers require as put up on a website that folks learn it from the ground up etc and vanilla kernels etc,
the folks charging a buck at least "make it easy" for THE CONSUMER. The consumer "wins" with this competition and that's what makes me root for them.
They are providing the ability for more people to get a mac at less, which is more power for the consumer and to me that matters.
I for one wish them well.
What? Now wait, wait... You're not here to hate?
A well? Now that would be a "dream-come-true" :D:D:D
Eh, I'm not in to people picking apart an already written story. It leaves the other party with no room to effectively argue or clarify themselves. It's a bit cowardly.
Besides, since when wasn't a bit of published 'news' written without added flair? Most of us would yawn. They've got to make it more interesting for readers who don't normally hear about this stuff.
Every word I write is picked apart every single day in these comments, and I'm hung out to dry for even the smallest errors -- which I actually love, since it forces me to be better.
Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to other journalists making stuff up to move papers.
If you want news:
www.cnn.com
If you want amusing, witty reporting on technology
www.engadget.com
I could care less if you're sympathetic, it's still cowardly and quite lame to argue line-by-line like a 13 year old troll on a fan-site forum.
Ooops, that's right, I forgot where I was. I better hop on my roflcopter and be on my merry way.
Journalism is about facts.
Don't want the facts? Go read the Miami New Times.
Isn't Rebel EFI (or more specifically the Darwin Universal Boot Loader) illegally based on the open source boot-132 loader? I guess its not enough to steal someone else code, they have to actively insult the community that developed it for them.
Illegal, yes, because they haven't released their source code, and are thus violating the original Apple open source license on the source code.
But thats barely even a footnote on the great book called 'Why Psystar Are F**ktards And Are Going To Hell' ;)
You've gotta appreciate the irony of needing an activation code for a hacked OS, when the non-hacked OS does not ask for one :)
That quote from Rudy contradicts a sworn statement he made with the Court where he swore under penalty of perjury that any ole' user could circumvent Apple's security measures in OS X with info gleaned from the web
http://www.edibleapple.com/psystar-president-rudy-pedraza-contradicts-sworn-legal-statement-in-newspaper-article/
I still think the hackintosh community being outraged at what Pystar is doing to them is comical. Here they are ripping off Apple by hacking their proprietary OS to run on generic Intel hardware thereby costing Apple hardware sales and $$$. Then along comes Pystar using what they've learned to make a quick buck, and they cry bloody murder about Pystar using them? LOL, sounds like a fight among thieves to me!
Would you Apple hackers like some cheese with your whine?
I don't think that OSx86 does cost Apple "$$$" [sic].
I think that people who install OSx86 just love the OS, or hate windows, and would not have bought the hardware in the first place. Or they try it out on a netbook or similar, love it and go for the plunge by buying a MB.
I had a netbook running Tiger, loved it, and now have a MBP running Snow Leopard
You.... just dont get it do you?
I see you've started your own thread. Good, now you'll get notification of replies. You're wrong, the hackintosh community probably makes money for Apple. I've got a hackintosh, a Power Mac G5 and a Mac Pro. I'll be buying a MBP soonish (waiting for Arrandale).
Apple doesn't seem to mind. They sure haven't been doing much to antagonize the hackintosh community -- I think they're happy to have hobbyists enthusiastic about their software, but want to make it JUST difficult enough that people don't go hackintosh rather than buying a machine from Apple.
They're distinctly NOT happy about someone ripping off their IP and trying to sell it. This probably would have been legal before the DMCA, but it's not anymore.
How is it stealing if I buy OSX and run it on a computer with a Core2Duo? That's not generic Apple hardware, that's essentially what Apple's using.
Plus, with those numbers Apple's been posting, I don't think they're too worried about the $$$ - I mean, it's not like everyone and their aunt is building a Hackintosh.
You really think that way? Really?? Like others say the community doesn't cost apple money. Not sure about now but when the community first was still growing everyone would buy a copy of OS X, just to "own" the operating system and use the communities work for themselves, and not try to make a profit over others works. Being in the community as well, for so long, i know how hard these hackers work. and get what we all want. (for me graphics drivers for the nvidia geforce 8800gts), and being a college student i was able to benefit from a well priced computer and running mac. (and also still support apple)
obviously why apple hasnt really done anything against the community
even as a Mac User I admire the people who take their time to figure out how to make something work on a non-native system and offer their lets call it product to everybody else who is interested in using it. thats the way how innovation and skilled software engineers are generated. and of course not everybody wants to pay a premium for hardware so thats also why I'm okey with the Hackintosh scene. but Pystar is really just a scam. bullying around and making basically everybody pissed of because it draws attention the way nobody wants it. Before they appeared the hackintosh scene was blossoming just fine and I'm sure even Steve J. didn't mind the play since it is also interesting for them to see how their hardware runs with different hardware components without having to invest too much into development (take it as outsourcing of research)....
The quality of the article by the Miami New Times is very poor. I would not trust what is said in it.
I'm not defending Psystar, I'm simply looking at the quality of the article.
"This is simply not true. OS X is vulnerable to hackers in its shipping form"
WRONG. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Go to that link, read it, and then UNDERSTAND THIS: That hole in Safari was only available to be used to gain access to the OS because this was day 2 of the competition in which the hackers were given LOCAL ADMIN ACCESS to the Mac.
LOCAL
ADMIN
ACCESS.
If somebody gives you the admin password to their Mac and lets you sit in front of it and click a link in an email that opens Safari to access a malicious site which then requires you to ENTER YOUR ADMIN PASSWORD, is that a "hack"? REALLY?
Day 1 of the contest was for hackers to try to remotely access the Mac. Nobody could do it. NOBODY. That's why this "hack" didn't happen until day 2. I honestly can't believe that to this day there are still some people (apparently "Chris") that think Macs are vulnerable to hackers.
Yes, it's still a hack.
You don't need to be sat in front of the computer, you just need the user to enter the local admin password. Which you can do through confidence tricks and social engineering.
The average computer user doesn't challenge the guy calling from tech support to prove he's from tech support.
The average user doesn't check email headers to make sure the email from Auntie Beth orginated from Auntie Beth's email provider.
The average computer user is wide open for exploitation and manipulation because of their lack of knowledge and naivety. The same applies to other life situations like gaining access to a building.
people are scared that what they have been taught is all wrong. and believe it to be true. what is true is that you conform to what others want you to believe and refuse to think for yourself and disagree
No one is a saint here. The Hackintosh community is producing tools to break Apple's EULA, Psystar comes along and (maybe) broke their license. Neither party can really claim the moral high ground. Additionally the original Hackintosh EFI loaders were based off Intel's EFI SDK so, again, both parties are using someone else's work. I'm not sure what license the original Intel EFI SDK was under so perhaps the Hackintosh community gets a free pass here. (Intel pulled the SDK offline 2 years ago) The Hackintosh community is almost exclusively non-profit so that definitely gives them a more noble role in all this. Either way though they exist to break Apple's EULA. They can't cry when someone breaks theirs.
yes they can cry about it when Psystar try to make money off of it. the whole point is that they do it for free and apple ever since they first hacked Mac Os X to run on a PC, apple has not done anything to really stop the hacintosh community. but with the down fall of intel's Atom not working in 10.6.2 and Psystar doing what they are doing, they might just try and lock everyone out after Apple is done with Psystar.
this is what they don't want to happen.....
They must be cubans this got damn 90 mile swimming experts talk a lot of shit. Stealing the idea and then saying they did the ground work because years and years of community involvement is just WRONG..
Pricks i tell ya
Anyone who seriously believes that the motivation of the vast majority of the scene hackers is harm Apple, or take away their sales, is a fool. And i'd argue the scene in general is GOOD for Apple.
There are, broadly speaking, two paths through the hackintosh scene:
1) Hackers, who are in it for pure intellectual challenge, or 'shits and giggles', call it what you will. They are excited and motivated by pushing the boundaries, to see what advances can be made, to push forward the State of the Art. Generally these people will already have 'real' Macs, or will buy one very shortly after beginning their journey.
To get an idea of the mind of the hacker, and why 'screwing Apple' is not high on the list of motivations, consider this: did Steve Wozniak hack Ma Bell because he was too cheap to pay for phone calls? ( http://woz.org/letters/general/03.html ) No, of course not. But he thought it could be done, if he just tinkered and hacked and ..... you get the idea. I see a lot of similarity between the modern-day osx86 scene, and the phone phreaking scene of the 70's - geeks, turned on by the idea that they could use nothing more than knowledge and their own skills to get a system to work in ways it wasnt meant to.... big names, revered and talked about in hushed tones (Captain Crunch anyone? Maxxus?).
In short, these people are the 'square pegs in the round holes' - the ones who have 'no respect for the status quo'. Sound familiar?
2. n00bs. These vary between the type who seriously do want a 'cheap mac' but are willing to put in exactly ZERO effort. Generally they'll realise its beyond them and go buy a MacBook or whatever. Then you get guys who get sucked into the scene and start to really contribute - helping more 'junior' members out, keeping up to date with the latest and greatest advances, even graduating to writing helpful scripts or GUIs to the more technical hacks and patches. Then you get the guys who evolve into hackers.
At the end of the day, though, the one thing I can honestly say I see again and again and again in the scene is this:
dude joins; dude gets hooked on OS X; dude buys a real Mac.
Why? Because Apple make great hardware. And hardware sales is what they want.
Peace.
- munky
Jesus, a group of un-employed wasters steal a product and hack it around to pass on as there own genius and then they get glorified like someone like Donald Trump in a newspaper review!
Sometimes I really think it would be great if the world ended on Dec 21st 2012, cause it just gets worst and more screwed up daily. But I've seen plenty of criminals glorified these day's so it shouldn't surprise me really, we'll have a biography of a mass murderer for sale on Amazon soon.
I'd think a social conservative would at least be able to use proper grammar.
I guess you're just another sign of the downfall of common decency.
wow, he just lost the support of a huge community that could have been some of his biggest support. Ironically that quote sounded very Jobsian.