Uh, um, ok... remember how Steve Jobs called the finger, the "best pointing device in the world" while chiding the stylus? Well, guess he wasn't lumping handwriting capabilities in with his lambasting if there's anything to this patent application for recognizing and processing "ink information" from a pen-based computer system that went public today (filed in July 2009). Naturally, the patent app makes liberal mention of tablets as the most recognizable pen-based computing systems; something that will certainly fuel speculation about the much rumored (it is still a rumor right?)
Apple tablet possibly sporting a, gulp, stylus. Now go ahead and check the video after the break and listen to Steve Jobs describe the insanely great "pointing device we're all born with" (1:54) in addition to how Apple "invented a new technology called multi-touch" (2:03) with the patents to prove it (2:27 and 6:19). Oh MacWorld 2007, isn't there anything you can't do?
posted November 12th 2009 6:42AM
welcome to Engadget..
@ Andy: You're forgetting Unicorn horn! Never forget Unicorn horn.
This apple tablet is going to be made of squid ink for superior writing capabilities.
Andy and darKlar, you're BOTH forgetting crocodile tongues...1,000 long, slimy crocodile tongues. It's the stuff fantastic things...and Apple, Inc. electronics...are made of.
Guessing this patent refers to Ink Well, handwriting recognition software already built into Mac OS X.
looks like a huge iphone to write stuff... wonder who really needs that kind of stuff...
but we're all geeks, and we love usless stuff =D
It'll be multi-touch capacitive with a Wacom pen. Best of both worlds. Duh.
All good tablets need a wacom pen, that way you can hover the curser over stuff without touching the screen. Add that to a normal capacitive screen and they might be onto something. Then again, you don't really need the normal capcitive touch because you have a much more accurate pen, and besides, some users don't like constantly thumbing at their screen with multiple fingers.
So what your left with no doubt is a slate tablet device with a nice glossy screen, maybe about 10" or so and a wacom pen. Hmm, where have a I seen that before? oh I remember, 2005 on the HP TC1100.
Yep most of the newer Windows tablets that have been released have had this combo. It works pretty slick.
Why don't they just use a triple-touch calculation? If you know where the three fingers (two + thumb) contact the screen, calculate the point at the center and have that be the "pencil point". A calibration routine (to put the point where you would expect it between your three fingers) would be nice, too.
There you go. No stylus necessary.
What?! So, to place a point/mark on the screen, you have to place three fingers approximately equidistant around it? And what if you want to click/mark right in the corner of the screen - surely at least one of your fingers would have to be placed on the bezel/off the screen itself to allow your three point calculation to work?
Apologies if I'm misunderstanding but, to me, your suggestion is frankly ridiculous and unwieldy.
How do you hold a pen/pencil? I'm a rightie, so I hold it with my thumb on the left side, pointer finger on top and middle finger supporting the right side/bottom. If you remove the pencil and press your fingers together (loosely) and place them against a surface, you will get three contact points in a rough approximation of a triangle. You would just need to run the calibration routine to get the point exactly where you expected it in that small triangle.
I don't think the bezel area would be too much of an issue (admittedly, this is theoretical) unless you have proctologist-sized fingers ;-) Of course, with the screen realestate provided by a tablet (versus an iphone) it would be much less of an issue, I tend not to write all the way to the extreme edges of normal paper either (occasionally, my text will bend down and make the corner, lol!)
It would be really useful for putting in-line equations into class notes (as an example) -- especially higher math or statistics equations.
I like to see where I am pressing, and one of my stubby fingers blocks my view enough, i could only envision half my screen being blocked by my hand using a three finger touch. Nah, if it comes to that, I'd rather finger paint.
One of the biggest complaints about the usability of the Kindle was the inability to make highlights, sketches and notes with the material you are reading. This gives them the option to have the best of both worlds: the ability for multi-touch with an onscreen keyboard as well as a pen for sketching and note taking. If you have ever used a tablet before, you already know that BOTH of these would be a good thing for the over all experience.
I agree, I think that for a note taking, reading device a stylus is absolutely critical. Whether it be through a resistive screen or a Wacom digitizer. I am still skeptical of capacitive stylii, though I would certainly give it a fair shake if I had the chance to try one out. To me a capacitive screen with an underlying Wacom layer makes the most sense for Apple. This is what the newer Lenovo x200t tablets are using and it is a good compromise (though the 200 only supports 2 point multitouch for some reason).
The thing I don't get about this patent application is that it seems to be all about phrase completion to get context and increase handwriting recognition. I am pretty sure both Windows and WinMo have been doing this for years. Maybe I am wrong, but I know it will wait until I come to a stopping point in my writing to perform the recognition, and it seems far more accurate when I write complete sentences in context.
Of course then again, maybe I have been wrong about Steve Jobs all this time. Maybe the reason Apple keeps filing these patents is because Steve really truly does believe Apple is inventing these things.
Isn't that the original Newton?
Jobs is a salesman, not an engineer. His M.O. is always the same:
He says whatever it takes to sell what his device has or doesn't have.
If his device doesn't have something, that thing is useless... right up until his device DOES have it, and then it's the most amazing thing invented.
Never fails.
So the stylus will be cool again? Luckily I held on to my Palm Tungsten (I hope that came off clean).
To all the people moaning it's going to be a large iPhone....are you on the developing team at Apple? How do you know all of this?!!!
/sarcasm
This actually creates some degree of possibility that the Apple Tablet won't be a horrible failure. Tablet computers without stylus support are just about the most useless gadgets imaginable.
Also, I'm not sure what it is in that patent that is in any way unique, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets rejected.
Plus, it mentions handwriting recognition alot, and that seems unlikely. Apple are all too keen to shy away from traditionally clumsy techniques, for anyone who writes with slightly scruffy handwriting or at all mathematical / technical language, handwriting recognition is pretty useless, and always will be.
If you can write, wait for a computer to regognise what you've written and then correct it afterwards faster than it takes you to just type the damn thing in the first place, then you clearly need to learn to type faster. Besides, if what you are after is typed out text, then there are easier ways of going about this - buying a netbook with a keyboard, for starters, will be cheaper.
Tablets are for writing notes, drawing, showing off, not for creating text.
I don't know, I've heard that merely looking at an Apple Tablet will improve your handwriting to superhuman levels.
i can't believe the lack of imagination from most people about this device....
anyone thinking it's going to be a mere ereader/giant iphone just isn't thinking about where we are, where we've been and where we are going...
a stylus (which only apple haters will claim "apple invented" like they do everything else, when all they ever do is REFINE... successfully) would be a welcome option for certain applications not a navigation device... think art/photoshop/illustrator etc etc etc
i know many designers and artists, myself included can see the benefit of that, and it being done correctly and effectively and lets face it... it will...
other than that... even merely running garageband or imovie on a tablet and using your fingers to stretch and position and edit and cut files etc would be many times faster than normal input devices such as keyboards and mice... i cant wait to be able to use it for things like that... this announcement kind of reaffirms to me that the device is going to be more capable than expected...
for goodness sake as all gadget lovers, how many of you haven't got a hard on for the minority report vision?
i'm dying to get a tablet, just like i waited about 5 years anticipating the phone...
thinking this is going to be a turkey just shows you haven't been paying attention...
the courier doesnt exist yet... and what of microsoft surface?
bottom line i have no need for a stylus on my iphone, that would be a pain in the arse and completely unnessisary,
if i had the tablet and it could run decent apps you are damned right i would want one...
jobs was discussing the iphone when dissing the styus... they have also just launched a mouse as well... or were you too busy flaming the thread about him "inventing the mouse" to realise that they have several products on the go with different functions?
trepidation pisses me off here... i'm just looking forward to the next cool thing that inspires other cool things that inspire and facilitate other cool things, and i want the best of them.. dont give a f*ck who makes them.. just so happens apple get it right for me each time....
its all about patience and that is something every other 'competing' company lacks.... i'd lov to see microsoft crap out the courier before the apple tablet is released when they have no idea of its capabilites... but i am pretty sure they wont... they dont bother with surprises they will do what they always d and thats work hard but in a clustered way towards they're answer to what the markets want... and more recently, markets that apple create.... i dont care about market share statistics... for one reason, there are billions of shops and offices and workplaces in the world all using pcs as basic taskmasters... probably far more than the domestic sector... thats where the market share is... why in hell would say a shop, or an helpline company or any work place spend a premium on millions of high end, macs? stands to reason...
i could go on... but i cant be bothered... i just get a wee bit confused about why certain people here even bother to read the articles posted here, let alone comment on them....
The content of this patent application is nearly a decade old. The application is a "continuation" of application. No. 09/520,206, which was filed on Mar 7, 2000 and is now issued patent # 7,564,995.
The content of this application is exactly the same as the older "parent" application except for the claims section. Patent laws require that the claims section of a continuation application be supported by the content of the detailed description of the original "parent" application. So essentially this "new" continuation application doesn't actually include anything of substance that wasn't already disclosed back at the turn of the century.
***I'm not an attorney, and nothing I say is legal advice.
See for yourself @ http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=eknIAAAAEBAJ&dq=7564995
Can anyone tell me why the world goes crazy when Apple re-invent the wheel? Apple blasted the stylus years ago, now they are coming back to the camp, and what do you know? The fanboys are lining up.
How can apple patent Handwriting recognition when I have been using Pen and Ink recognition on my HP TC1100 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TC1100) for years? Courier is not the first invention of Microsoft tablet, it the next evolution. So what has Apple got that the world haven't seen before? I wonder how this will play-out with the companies holding the current patents. I am sure they are laughing their ass off now, waiting for Apple to make the stupid move.
If you are dying to get a tablet, you better look around. I would visit http://www.tabletkiosk.com/ or any other tablet vendor if I were you. Looking at this patent, and the noise coming from the Apple camp, they are not inventing anything new. They may polish it and make shining and all, but at the end of the day it is not going to do anything different from what I have today.
We just want the fanboys to wake-up and see through the Apple's smoke.
WHY do YOU want me to "wake up"?????
what's your problem with what someone likes?
i read the patent
its covering one tiny aspect of the device, and having read it start to finish, it only seems to be stating that the patent is for this existing function (even listing others already available), but one that works with more accuracy and less glitches... which...is their modus operandi....
what do yo know about what i do, and what i use, and what i know is available?
i can't find anything on that link that ticks all the boxes of what i quite happily anticipate...
no smoke... i waited years on the phone deliberately dodged the first gen model, and am now on my second iphone (free upgrade)
and i know it is the finest device i have ever owned, and everybody i know that owns one feels the same... are we just lying to ourselves????
i, on a daily basis use several programmes that integrate seamlessly together, never have any issues with any of it, and live a very quick moving and creatively rewarding life... this is all carried out through some of the most beautiful looking hardware on the planet... i am the one benefiting there surely? my latest imac looks stunning even siting there powered down as a very high quality piece of engineering and design.... it is no smokescreen... its called a happy preference........ you tit
go on.... say i sit in starbucks with a macbook.....
you must be dying to by now...
or how about defining an " apple fanboy" without sounding like a 14 year old....
all i propagate is preference, knowing good quality and what works best for me (and that you are a tit)
The Apple tablet is still a dream. It's interesting that so many people are upset with the idea of Apple releasing a tablet. We all know what Apple did with the mobile phone. We all know what microsoft did with the tablet.
That concept of microsoft courier looks so much like what an iphone actually does. It looks like a great product but it screams iphone. I have doubts of microsoft integrating the courier with the zune, x-box and windows mobile: they don't have a strong record of seamless product integration.
Personally, I've always been a huge fan of styluses. When taking notes on a tablet, it's really a pain having to write with your fingers. That's just my own personal preference though.
This or an Air.... I can't figure out which I want more. I'll just have to see the real thing first before I decide if it's any good or not.
How can they patent this? haven't styluses been used on screens for a while now?
Ummm... I thought this had already been done... Tablet PCs? Windows XP Tablet PC Edition? Vista and 7 Tablet Pack?
What exactly are they trying to patent there? Tablet PCs that are touch sensitive and allow you to write with a stylus in addition already exist.
This comment was handwritten on my 5 year old Tablet PC, running Microsoft Windows XP Tablet PC edition...
Seriously? WHY THE HATE FOR THE PEN BASED INPUT??? Look, multitouch is great for a phone or for a media player type device but something that is tablet sized a pen is much better. For one thing a lot of gesture navigation is no better or more precise with fingers than with a stylus, and frankly the type of person who is really going to benefit from a tablet computer is a creative type. Someone who who wouldn't use a large touch surface computer for drawing, writing, annotating by hand, painting etc. isn't the type of person who really needs it. They would be much better served by a traditional laptop that lets you write faster and navigate more precisely. If they need a portable media player and ipod touch or an iphone is better suited. Tablet? Artists and creative types, thus a stylus makes more sense. Just sayin.
I'm amazing how little comment there is about how much this "device" looks like a Newton. The bottom with the icons and the up/down arrows is exactly a Newton. Apple did have handwriting recognition about 15 years ago, folks. Then Jobs killed it out of spite.
i think its more amazing how many people comment without reading the patent...
it states that the illustration is by no means anything like how the invention may look, its merely reference...
why would apple shoot their load like that?
and furthermore, everybody commenting on asking what they are trying to patent? or that they are re-inventing the stylus...
please... read the damned thing instead of reactionary comments, based on a glance of info...
Ink is the name of the handwriting recognition already built into OSX. If you plug in a tablet it shows up in system preferences.
Maybe they will be doing some sort of note taking peripheral or just patenting their existing technology for good measure.
I can't believe Jobs claimed they INVENTED Multi-Touch when iPhone was announced, even though the proof of concept dates back all the way to 1982!