Just a word of caution to anyone out there with an itchy credit card finger: signing up for a contract with Verizon just became a considerably more binding affair thanks to a big boost of its contract early termination fee from $175 to $350.
Rumored for a few days now, the change became official as of yesterday, which means that anyone who bought an "advanced device" prior to the 14th is in the clear. The advanced device list can be found on Verizon's site, and as you might expect, it's a little broad and ridiculous -- winners like the
Versa,
Exilim, and
Glyde are on there, so they're obviously not just referring to smartphones. They throw you a bone by reducing the ETF by a stout $10 for every month of the contract you successfully hurdle, but that still leaves you with a $120 ETF 23 months into a 24-month deal... so yeah, just be careful out there and don't do anything rash, alright?
posted Nov 15th 2009 2:44PM
...and last. Banned.
Goddammit Verizon!
Why do people sign contracts?
Please use your Credit Card and buy unlocked phones!
Verizon does this because we want to ensure that the consumer has the best possible experience and service possible.
Travis: because we have to pay the monthly anyway. pre-paid service is woefully lacking in the US.
(that was directed at the troll not Chris) ...lol
Chris, please give us the ability to down rank you again.
I always down rank you, you seem cocky and you have an iPhone up your ass.
Wasn't there some lawsuit regarding ETFs? Didn't Verizon pay $20 +/- million to California for having exuberant ETFs?
I thought the same thing.
Here's a quote from the FCC chairman at the time of the settlement, "I am concerned that early termination fees are being used not as a means of recovering legitimate costs but as a means of locking consumers into a service provider," FCC Chairman Kevin Martin said at the time.
Here's a link...
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2325287,00.asp
I guess Verizon will try to rationalize their right to do this by pro-rating the etf... by $10 a month. I don't think that's quite what the FCC had in mind. Hopefully this will get sorted out with the FCC soon. I don't use Verizon, but I don't think this is justifiable.
Just as Verizon is gaining traction vs AT&T with the Droid, with facts and figures about their superior 3G coverage... they come out with this?? There is zero justification.
Complete corporate assraping.
@nshuss - "gaining traction"? What Planet are you on?
http://wp.appadvice.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/chart3.jpg
http://images.appleinsider.com/att.verizon.3g.speed.png
which was due to them not prorating. but they are still being assine about it. they claim the ETF is because they don't take full payment of the device, opting instead to have the user pay it out over the course of the contract. so the ETF should be prorated as 1/24th of that amount. thus at month 23 you would have something like 14 dollars left, not 120.
also, if there is anyone one or considering Verizon I"m curious about something. ATT gives you 30 days to "try it before you buy it" if you will. if you hate the service or phone you can return the device and cancel service and not have to pay the ETF. just the activation and first months bill. I was told that by law all companies must do this. but I can't recall Verizon ever saying this is the case with them. can anyone confirm or deny
(and I have to agree with those that say the 'you've been banned' and all the chatter back and forth about it is as bad as the trolling.)
@konshuss
are you being serious? There is PLENTY of justification! The droid is HIGHLY subsidized and Verizon is tired of eating the bill when people sign a CONTRACT to get a subsidized phone (like the Droid) for $199, then paying the $175 ETF. These people are out the door with a $550 phone for $375. Whats you definition of justification?
Abide by your contract and this isn't a problem...
@LAGal:
Verizon does have a 30 day trial for their phones and service. The thing is that after 3 days Verizon now charges a $35 restocking fee if you return the phone on the 4th day and beyond.
I have been hating AT&T for so long I seemed to have forgotten why I also hated Verizon: there selfish, money-grubbing, gift-horse-in-the-mouth looking fiscal policies. Back in the early days of smarter dumb phones, they'd sell you a phone with really cool tech but would disable 30% of it so they could profit from their own little closed model. Nowadays. although they pay lip service to embracing "open" platforms, they STILL want to turn something into a marriage that should be casual sex. AT&T may have the absolute WORST freakin' network this side of two tin cans and a string, but at the very least I don't feel like they're making love to my rectum without the benefit of lubricant.
Evidently $20 million in penalties was not enough for a large company like Verizon. The feds are going to get involved with this one, there are already a couple of congressmen and a senator who have signed on. This will not last! If this is the way Verizon has to subsidize their products, they need to change their business and marketing model. The penalty is much to punitive for the consumer and they will pay dearly for this one.
This would never happen on the Now Network!
Because no one ever switches to it...
Except for me when I got the HTC Hero.
and me
Yeah, me too. I made the jump to Sprint. It's a sweet sweet network.
and my buddy
Plus, Lafawnda and Bonquiqui are also switching to Boost because they lost their jobs at KFC.
@Joaqrobdel
hahahaha so true! It's hard to pay that $750 deposit with foodstamps!
"y'all take EBT cards?"
"or if we cancel it for good cause" Way to make your own loop hole Verizon.
Yeah wtf, good cause is subjective. No way I would deal with verizon after reading that. Thanks for pointing that out.
I was thinking of buying the Droid. Now I will Never, Ever, Ever buy a Verizon phone. Verizon, sucks to be you. Heck, Verizon is CDMA and I cant even use their service outside the country. Glad I am with T.MO. Goodbye VRed. I never liked you anyway. No big loss.
yeah i really wanted a DROID until i read this. i've been with AT&T for a three years now and i'm fed up with their crappy service and phones. now Verizon does this. T-Mobile isn't even available in Madison WI. looks like my only options are Sprint and god forbid US Cellular. im looking at a Samsung Moment on Sprint. now i just need to know how solid their network is in Madison
@eogueri
You people who get all worked up about the ability to use your phone outside of the country must not travel very much or know much about technology. First, it's INCREDIBLY expensive to roam out of country with any of the carriers, so if you're planning to do more than just leave your phone on while you're vacationing, you'll want to get a SIM card in that country (data roaming charges can be hundreds and hundreds of dollars for only a few days of "normal" traffic when you were at home). Then putting that SIM card into your current phone is on the whim of the carrier of whether they'll unlock the phone for that (TMO is pretty good about it but not ATT). Finally, you should know that the bands used in the US are different from those used in other countries for the most part, and I'm not aware of any phones from either TMO or ATT that is a quadband GSM (850/900/1800/1900) quintband UMTS (850/1900/2100/1700/900 are all in use).
In general I agree w/ you that it'd be nice if all these weren't still roadblocks but there are so I just travel w/ a spare unlocked GSM phone to use with a prepaid local SIM I buy when I get there.
All the major carriers are controlled by complete corporate asshats. Just because AT&T is bad doesn't mean Verizon has to be better.
Sure, the coverage/reliability may be better, but the plans are more expensive and now the ETF is insane.
"The grass isn't always greener on the other side..."
@someguy "or know much about technology"...I would like to introduce you to our good friend Kettle, that your something we like to call reading comprehension. You see the first posts were about taking a Verizon CDMA phone globally and about being stuck with Sprint another CDMA carrier because of local network conditions.
Given this were does your suggestion about getting a local SIM when traveling abroad play into a US carrier CDMA phone that does not have a SIM card slot? Please enlighten me with your greater knowledge or travel and technology.
my tp2 works just fine abroad. ahahah
@kojo87: I live in Madison and switched from AT&T to Sprint. I'm really pleased with Sprint and my Pre. I have 3G in more places (all the way from Madison to Milwaukee AND in the middle of nowhere), and if Sprint's network doesn't have coverage in some places then it roams on Alltel or Verizon (for free, with no service disruption). Not to mention what a great value Sprint's all-inclusive plans are.
I will never understand why ETF's are the subject of so much complaining. The decision to sign up with a carrier is serious and should not be made without considerable thought. It's a contract, after all, and if you're not willing to hold up your end of the deal, then you should be willing to accept the consequences.
ETFs should be there for a company to secur back the money they put worth to decrease the upfront cost of the phone, which you pay back over the contract time. So having 120 after 23 months clearly doesn't make sense.
That said, services costs shouldn't be the same for those bringing their own phones, not that verizon let's you do that yet....point is cell companies in the USA aren't very rational
Right, but having to pay $0 after 24 months does make sense, so just stick to your word (like they did when they subsidized the phone for you), stay for the 2 years that you agreed to, and there shouldn't be a problem.
Yeah, I have to agree. If you sign a contract saying you're in for 24 months in order to get a really expensive phone cheap, then you signed a contract saying you're in for 24 months. I fail to see any controversy here.
Do I see possible PROBLEMS with a 24 month contract - like moving to a nonVerizon area? Yes, of course. But that would happen any time any where any carrier any phone.
@ Steven I used to feel that way to. I know detest ETF's.
I was a sprint costumer for many years until i was charged $350 out of the blue one day. Because the charges where so high my service was disconnected until i paid the fees. I immediately paid the fees and called sprint "customer service". I was told that they have no way of knowing exactly what the charges were for until my bill post in 5 days, until then it just shows up as a data purchase. When my bill finally posted i was told the charges where for for ringtone/wallpaper purchase that I never made. I was then given the run around between the sprint store and their customer service department. I was eventually able to prove that it was an error and that I never made those downloads. I was informed that since more then a week had passed I could not be issued a refund (total BS), they just applied the 350 to my next bill, no compensation was offered to me beyond that. Why not? I had 22 months left on my contract so there was no need to provide good customer service to someone locked in for that long.... At least until I read this
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/01/20/sprint-extends-etf-free-cancellations-through-january-31/
I left sprint and I now have at&t (yeah I know. you don't have to tell me, I know)
.
ETF's suck. Companies see no need to go out of there way to provide customer service to someone who is licked in to a contract. I suggest you try providing a good service to your customers. Then they will stay.
@Zap
Provide your own equipment, you don't have to sign a contract. Granted, presently it has to be a VZW branded device, but the option is there.
Also if you buy a phone retail, you don't have to sign a contract either.
@bjsguess
"If not, then the raise in ETF is purely punitive in nature"
Well, there you go, you've answered your own question. It's exactly punative. It's a contract after all, and whatever the circumstances were for you exiting the contract early, they are entitled to penalize you for doing so. So what if you *choose* to move and no longer have great service in the new location - that's somehow the carrier's fault and they should lose the revenue you promised them when you signed the contract? About the warranty, did you not read your warranty before you bought the phone, and that's why you didn't realize how long it would be in effect? Or did you read it and decided you could handle the risk of it breaking outside the warranty but within your contract period? Either way, again that was your decision, and you made it at the time you signed the contract.
Believe me, I'm with you that ETFs can't be exobanent and would prefer to see the ETF at month 23 be closer to $0, but I don't agree that it should be exactly $0. There *should be* a penalty for breaking a legal contract. What's wrong with you people who think you should just get everything for free...
That said, I think there should also be mandated charges to telecom operators, cable companies, etc who you have signed these contracts with but they fail to hold up their end (service outages, etc). Call your congressperson to ask for sensible rules for both sides. But don't expect to be able to sign contracts and then be shocked by being held to them.
Upfront cost of the phone? Please, these companies are MAKING money selling the phones at their double secret special offer price to us. They have ETF's to further screw us and hold us hostage, period. 10 years ago it was a ONE year contract, now it's 2, or 3 in the case of Rogers. Look at the cost of owning a "smartphone" for the period of the contract, in some cases it's $3,000+ depending on your plan. You're telling me they justify this by selling me a phone for $200? when our monthly fees are pure profit because the infrastructure has been there for years??
It's $350 because the DROID is $549 off contract. $350+199=$549. Makes sense.. they just don't discount the ETF enough.
Of course I was just using the DROID as an example, other phones do fall under that system. $350 is the upfront discount.
I disagree. The only reason I'm signing a contract is because they require it. There's no reason to sign a contract to use a phone except to lock you into them for a set amount of time. Then they tag the EFT on there to boot. I was about to go get the Droid and switch from ATT, but now I'll just stick here for a while longer and hope an Android phone gets over here. I would have no problem signing a contract that said, "You will pay the monthly payment for as long as you decide to use a phone on our wireless service...". It's not my fault they've gotten themselves in the business model with hardware vendors where they have to subsidize the over-priced hardware. There's only so many "big" wireless vendors and I don't see any reason why they couldn't bring the price of phones down without subsidizing. They say, hey, you want to put your phone on our network, we'll give you $X amount for it. You don't like it? Ok, find another carrier. I could be completely wrong, but I bet we'd see even better phones with lower price points, WORKING to get their phones on the best networks.
What a slap in the face! And all you Droid converts really thought you were raising hell on us iphone users. Screw you troll. Verizon as I have posted before PIMPS their phones. Verizon wants to make sure you stay put like a little bitch. So if Apple drops a new super sophisticated iphone next year and you want to switch, you is screwed.
Apple changes shit. The iphone is the only phone I know of where people are losing their minds to get it. They are jailbreaking them all over the world and that has created a huge business.
Screw Verizon and to hell with the Droid. OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there was one person I could ban from engadget, it would be you.
Don't forget word. Although an oxygen ban might be more effective.
@t
If Apple did one up the Droid next year (and for their sake I hope they do).
First I wouldn't go back because I just couldn't take the lack of coverage any more.
Two if I did want to go back I would only have to wait 6 months since I paid an extra $30 to knock my contract down to 1 year.
As a matter of fact I've done that with all the phones I've had with the exception of when I had the iPhone. For a few bucks more I shave 12 months off my contract. And I've found that I can normally put up with almost any gadget for a year before I'm Jonesing over something else.
And I didn't switch to the Droid to hurt Apple. I still like the iPhone. But there are at least two things that need to change for me to go back to an iPhone.
1) I need to be able to make and receive calls on the phone. Which means it needs to be on Verizon.
2) I should be able to listen to something like Slacker, Pandora, Sticher, or Flycast and be able to reply to a text message without exiting the program. And no, I don't consider Jailbreaking and installing the backgrounder app as a solution to this.
If Apple takes care of those two issues I'm sure that there will be lots of people that would be happy(ier).
I hope you guys know that you can try verizon for a month, and return the phone/service if you're not happy. Also, if you move, you can call customer service and if you're in a known problem area, you can be released from your contract. Ok?
Now there is 100% no excuse to the ETF. Sign the contract: ABIDE BY THE TERMS
@ YOU CAN"T VERIZON CHARGES YOU A RESTOCKING FEE AFTER 3 DAYS SO THEY WILL GET YOU NO MATTER WHAT!!!!! So I can use the Droid only 3 days? SCrew you Verizon keep selling flip phones you big red pimple