It's a sorry state of affairs when a media player like the
Zune HD has more polygon-pushing power than the latest handheld videogame consoles on the market. If rumors are to be believed, Nintendo and Sony will set things straight with their next-generation portables -- at least for a little while. We've already heard that the successor to Nintendo's DS will have
Tegra power, but the current speculation is that it'll be a
Tegra 2 chip, promising
twice the power of the current iteration. On the Sony side the PSP2 is apparently shaping up to use an offspring of the IMG PowerVR graphics found on the iPhone, said to be theoretically superior to what the DS2 will be able to achieve but costing more, being more difficult to develop for, and not shipping until sometime in 2011 -- potentially a year later than the DS2. In other words it's standard operating procedure if these rumors are to be believed, but even if there aren't any surprises in this showdown we'll be there in the front row with popcorn to watch the bloodshed.
posted November 16th 2009 9:58AM
There's no longer a reason to buy just a portable game system. With the ZuneHD and iPhone/iTouch, it does games and a crap load more at reasonable/comparable price.
Even with the most awesome graphics, touchscreen gaming is still touchscreen gaming. Using up screen real estate for places to put your fingers, no analog input, etc.
MAKE A CONTROLLER ACCESSORY FOR THE ZUNE HD, MICROSOFT!
I am going to have to disagree with you. While the zune and iPod touch are both great devices gaming is just a by product. Where as the ds and psp gaming is the product. Having andedicated gaming device is still a big selling point due to the fact it actually has gaming controls. It's aparent there is still a market for dedicated gaming portables by sales of he ds alone. All you have to do is look at numbers.
Zune/HD and iPhone touch comes nowhere near having the gaming experience of a PSP or a DS.. The PSP is like playing a console but on a portable scale. Plus if you mod PSP you can play every game from PS1 back to Atari and don't get me started on the DS large homebrew community too. I have yet to see ZuneHD do that and the iPhone does it only on a select few games.
You'd be insane to pick up an iPhone for gaming when you can find a PSP or DS for $99 or less...
Congratulations you just lumped in iPod touch and Zune in the same category since the "Does it have Games" checkbox gets a tick.
Typical PC fanboy.
Pal, by the time Zune gets the app delivery system and software in the hands of developers, and can convince devs to write games for a plaform with a userbase of about 500,000, then we can talk.
Till then, iPod touch and iPhone take over the world.
I am going to agree and reinforce what 7egend said. As gaming is a by-product on mobile phones, why would a developer pour their resources into something that gaming was more or less an afterthought?
No more reason to buy a portable gaming system? Either you're drunk or you're dumb.
Majority (if not all) of the games available on Apple and MS devices are nowhere near the level of the games available on the DS and the PSP. There are some good ones, yes. But there are MOST are just casual games (the ones you'd normally find on a cellphone) with better graphics. Though I do admit that the graphics and power packed in iPods/iPhones and Zunes pack quite a punch, but gaming won't be the same. I think it's extremely insensitive of people to say that touchscreen gaming is better than mashing buttons. It's pretty clear these guys aren't gamers by blood.
I can see it now. God of War, Tekken, and Guilty Gear Judgement without buttons. Oh the humanity.
Except for the fact that you don't get Nintendo or Sony games on the zune or iphone.
PCs can play games, who would buy a dedicated machine, that's stoopid!
There is aways a fanboy talking shit out of his mouth. You are way off topic.
@MIKE
Typical "macnoob who doesn't know anything about gaming" response.
Stop acting like you people know the real definition of gaming.
@Chaj
I'm going to vote you up because, certainly in the long-term, I entirely agree with you. The likelihood that we are going to be buying standalone portable gaming devices in the future is pretty low as the adoption of smartphones increases. I'm prepared to agree with those who today say that the likes of the DS and PSP are "better" gaming systems than the likes of the iPhone but I absolutely guarantee that standalone gaming systems have no future. I am, however, less certain of whether it will be a case of the DS/PSP being replaced by the likes of the iPhone/ZuneHD or the DS/PSP evolving into smartphones. On that last point I feel it could go either way, with Sony having a bit of an advantage over Nintendo since they already have a mobile telephone/smartphone business in Sony Ericsson.
Only a fool would think that iphones and the zune take the place of a full gaming handheld. I have the iPhone and some of the games are fun on a light and shallow level. It's touch screen, so it gets uninteresting to play games on rather quick.
My wife got me a ZuneHD recently too, and I love that thing. As far as gaming goes you're missing some pretty important issues with it though. First, MS is controlling what games hit for it right now, and there are few. No games that compete with those made by companies like Nintendo or Sony - such as FPS or RPG and the like. Second, it is using the touchscreen again, which still is not as dynamic as tradition controls. Yet, I am a big fan of the Tegra chips and really can't wait to see how they are pushed in the future.
There will always be a place for a full fledged gaming handheld with traditional controls. Gamers like the comfort of traditional controls and also like the options of playing deeper games that take more than touchscreen. Stop trying to declare some weird victory for the iPhone in gaming.
I own an iPhone 3G, a Nintendo DS Lite and a Sony PSP. I remain stunned at how much I use I have gotten out of the DS. It may well have looked like the gimmicky also-ran when it launched, but if you can wade through all of the chaff like the ten trillion Petz and Imagine games, it is a gaming nerd's wet dream.
That being said, the convenience of the iPhone has allowed me to get a gaming fix without having my pockets full of gadgets. Granted, I mostly play Solitaire, Bejeweled and other more casual titles, but gaming on mobile phones is only going to grow now that the current wave of devices is so adequately specified for the purpose. When articles like this talk about future dedicated gaming devices in relation to the power of a popular mobile phone, you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
I don't think we should entertain these odd notions that the Zune HD, iPhone, myriad Android phones et al are going to put Nintendo and Sony out of business, they ARE competition. As a result, I'd be interested to see what features the DS2 and PSP2 offer that reclaim ground from mobile phone gaming - especially where networked play is concerned. Personally, neither current system lived up to its potential in that respect.
"said to be theoretically superior to what the DS2 will be able to achieve but costing more, being more difficult to develop for"
Deja-vu anyone?
@(Unverified) Those are cheap mini games meant to humiliate the PMP market you dumbass. Nintendo DS and PSP games are loaded with much more than 3D gimmicks using that crappy accelerometer everyone wants.
A DS Lite here is CAD$139.99, a DSi for $179.99 and an 8GB iPod Touch for $219.00. And a DSi can do many equivalent features as an iPod Touch. Who needs a PMP when new, less expensive handhelds are attempting to do the same thing?
If someone could just manage to market an add-on for iPhones, Heros, Droids etc. that gave them full size games controllers every handheld gaming device would be obsolete.
Agreed. The only deal-breaker for me regarding gaming on a phone is the control options, or lack there-of.
On this subject I am in total disagreement. Adding controllers so that you can play the same games as before is just a rubbish idea. Buttons are not necessary but are added because of this notion that you have to have them (and as many as possible) in order to be "serious". But gaming isn't serious. A game only needs to be fun to be good so this concept of "serious" and "casual" game categories is total nonsense. You can produce fun games without buttons and which play to the strengths of the platform. Needing an add-on device is both inconvenient and, frankly, unoriginal. You need only look to your local games arcade (assuming that it still exists) to see the multitude of different control methods available to deliver fun games - sticks and buttons are not necessary.
We need imagination, not blasted buttons.
When games like Abduction use the phones motion detector then yes it is great fun, but trying to play SNES classics or Doom with a touchscreen is pretty crap really.
All I want is a controller I can afix my Hero to for "real" gaming.
I'm not saying all games need buttons but most games don't work with a touchscreen or motion detector.
Honestly, I would never carry around an accessory controller for these phones. The reason why games on your phone is so convenient is because you carry your phone around everywhere. Not because its a better distribution platform.
Even 3G iPhone games are limited to 10 MBs, any large game you need to be connected to a WiFi to download on iPhone. So as a distribution platform its also dubious, PSP games are already can be over 1GB.
The real solution is Nintendo and Sony should allow their nextDS and PSP2 to also be a phone.
All I can say is, don't try playing games on a device that weren't written for it because the experience will always be sub-par when compared to the experience of playing it on the device that it was written for. I have absolutely no intention of trying to play Doom or SNES games on something that isn't a PC or a SNES. Yes, these may be classic games but you should be looking to the present and future rather than to the past. Just because old games don't work well on a smartphone does not mean that it cannot play good games that have been written for it and which do not rely on D-pads, joysticks and buttons. It just means that you need to try something different...
There's no longer a reason to buy just a portable game system. With the ZuneHD and iPhone/iTouch, it does games and a crap load more at reasonable/comparable price.
uhhh sure there is....at last check the controls on the iPhone were shit....and I can't play Professor Layton, Crisis Core, God of War, Mario & Luigi or countless other titles on said iPhone or ZuneHD.....not to mention I didn't get an iPhone to play games on...nor my ZuneHD(when I get the 64GB model when released)....there is still PLENTY of reason....
oh yea....all those people that HATE digital distribution only models also have PLENTY of reason to get a DS or PSP
Touchscreen games are just not comparable to games that are developed for physical controls. PGR for the zune is a prefect example of how the experience just doesn't translate from the console to touch controls. If only Motorola put the D-pad on the left side of the droid......
That being said, I'm ready for Megatouch to start bringing their bar games to the iphone/zune
@J D
Project Gotham Racing is a perfect example of what is wrong with our ideas of what is necessary for gaming. Any racing game not being played with a steering wheel or equivalent is, frankly, just wrong. Yet for some reason people will argue that an stick and buttons are needed for gaming. There is no "right" controls for gaming, just the right controls for a particular game. There is no "one size fits all" solution so arguing that a system is not right for gaming because it doesn't have buttons just shows a complete lack of imagination. Any system capable of playing a game can have a good game written for it as long as the game is written for the controls available and the controls are appropriate for the game itself.
@ Kelmon
I would argue that having to tilt the screen to turn your car is also just wrong and this is why the fixed position of the screen in the ds/psp would make driving games superior on them. And using an analog stick that is attached to a fixed point also, at least to me, a more realistic interpretation of actually "steering" something.
I am not trying to argue that touch devices are the wrong devices for gaming. I agree that touchscreen gaming is a different genre than what gaming has historically been and that not all games will translate to the new format. Some games will be suited to this type of control, some won't.
PSP2 will most likely cost $250 at launch.....I dont see them going higher than that....but if it has a Second nub I would expect the damn thing to play PS2 games....can't wait for it to come out...I also how Nintendo allows for the Next DS to play the NES, SNES games that the Next Wii does much like Sony does with the PS3 & PSP......that will add value to both systems....
The only problem is that if they did put in PS2 games, they'd make it UMD-less and have you purchase everything for full price online.
@ jol
Yeah, it's like companies are all about making as much money as possible ;)
@ Chris D.
I hope the future psp2 has a second nub too, if only to get people to stop the whole "no 2nd analog=FAIL" thing.
uhhhh that wouldn't be that bad.....I mean $15 for a PS2 game is no big deal....hell FF7 is a CLASSIC on PS1 and was worth the $10 I paid for it....or was it $7.99? now I 4get....
If the PSP2 could emulate PS2 games I'd buy it day one copyright protection or not. I could wait a few weeks (or months) for the homebrew community to release mods to play whatever game I want. Plus if it could emulate PS2 that means there's a chance with tools that it could emulate Dreamcast later. Can you say Shenmue?
Anyways largest advantage handhelds have to consoles is that most of their games aren't used for online play and even if they're usually the firmware checks aren't as strenuous as the consoles. So the homebrew communities can always keep up.
I highly doubt anyone can predict what Sony is going to charge the masses for their "Premium portable gaming experience" or what ever marketing slang they're going to use to poorly justify their pricing point. The PSP Go launched at $250 which is what the original PSP sold for 4+ years ago. I'm skeptical that Sony would design a more powerful unit and release it at the same price as a PSP Go tech. I doubt we'll see anything until Sony decides to design some new proprietary media/memory format that nobody else will use.
I dont think its a sad state for portable gaming when the Zune is the most powerful unit out there. The Zune is using the latest GPU vs the 2 gaming systems that are using way older chipsets. As everyone stated the Zune and iTouch lack the tactile controls that a gaming unit has however, the Zune has these ridges on the sides of it that look like a controller add-on would snap on to. XNA is a couple years old now and people have had the ability to code for the Zunes it just needs a kick start to make it a proper gaming console. Just image if a dedicated Zune for gaming was released.
I thought sony would of learned not to use expensive hard to program for components by now. Look at the PS3 and how developers are initially programming their games for Xbox then porting them to PS3, causing the games to have better quality on xbox and not taking advantage of the PS3 full horse power.
@lothar
Actually I'd say the iPhone 3GS and 3rd gen iPod Touch are more powerful than the Zune HD. Tegra is no miracle hardware.
I'm theoretically interested in this news.
*Theoretical hardware battle looms for theoretical successors to Nintendo DS and Sony PSP
A sorry state of affairs, indeed.
Both Sony and Nintendo have dropped the ball, as far as developing a compelling next-gen handheld.
MS could slap together a $40 Zune HD controller add-on/dock and I would be all over it. It would be a game changer. Xbox Live Mobile, yummmm. This surely isn't happening anytime soon though. blah.
"Both Sony and Nintendo have dropped the ball, as far as developing a compelling next-gen handheld"
*facepalm*
Zune HD came out THIS YEAR, the DS and PSP are over 5 years old. OF COURSE their being outpaced by newer machines. News flash, next year when the DS2 launches it will make everything by comparison look laughable. Would you then argue that Microsoft and Apple "dropped the ball"?
actually, in portable hardware, Microsoft has yet to have it's balls drop.
Okay, so Sony will spend lots of money to produce a game system with lots of fancy gaming hardware that is still only average, producing very few games and charging a lot for ridiculous little things.
Nintendo will ignore hardware entirely, produce, something that is gimmicky and far underspecced, throw out the latest mario/zelda/metroid themed games, as well as a bunch of developers who want to try something unique and innovative (but ultimately not very fun), and then they add another bedroom to their fortress of money.
Its silly for these two to be going at it like this. Sony ericson can tap into the gaming sector and become a powerhouse. Its sad the politics behind not making their cell phone handheld division not work integrally with their mobile gaming division. Imagine an app store where the newest Star Wars rogue squadron is available for download.
Somehow I don't think Sony Ericsson is going to want to do that. I think they may have learned from Nokia and the N-Gage that gamers want a 100% dedicated device, not a 50-50 "meh" device.
@AH2049
I can't help thinking that this is an opinion rooted in the past. Sure, the NGage died a death but when you consider how many units products like the iPhone are shifting, the migration now to smartphones, and how many games are being sold on these things, do you really think that things will stay this way? I have no doubt that some people will prefer a dedicated device but it remains to be seen how many of them there really are and whether there are sufficient numbers to sustain a product. As much as I have fond memories of my Gameboy, I don't see any point in buying a dedicated device today and carrying around something extra in my pocket.
Perhaps Sony and Nintendo can wring another generation out but I don't see there being much life left in the dedicated device category beyond that.
@Kelmon
I can see where it sounds good on paper to have your gaming portable and phone all in one, but I still think that a company that's good at one side, probably won't do the other justice. "Jack of all trades, Master of none" comes to mind.
Companies can make powerful hardware for phones, but in the end, it's still a phone first. Thus, serious devs and support go to serious platforms.
@AH2049
Do not "real" gamers argue that the PC is the best gaming platform? That platform is about as generic as it comes and certainly is not "designed" for gaming.
At this point the DS2 will be more powerful than the Wii
Nice! Let's just hope the WiiHD is true!
haha you beat me to it! but yeah heck the tegra in the Zune HD is pretty much on par with the current Wii
Whatever. Nintendo doesn't DO hardware battles.
Why you will see them with a Tegra even when Tegra2 is out (which funny enough will be powerful enough to run the wii games probably, heck wouldn't doubt it if it could do 720 upscale output at the same time).