Apple countersues Nokia for infringing 13 patents
By Nilay Patel 
posted December 11th 2009 10:55AM
posted December 11th 2009 10:55AM
Cool, thanks. We'll be in the corner under a Nomex blanket for the next few months."Other companies must compete with us by inventing their own technologies, not just by stealing ours," said Bruce Sewell, Apple's General Counsel and senior vice president.
Update: Here's the PDF of the reply -- we're still reading all 79 pages of it, but it's what we expected: Apple says Nokia's patents aren't actually essential to GSM / UMTS, denies infringing them, and says they're invalid and / or unenforceable anyway. Apple also says Nokia wanted unreasonable license terms for the patents, including a cross-license for Apple's various iPhone device patents as part of any deal, which Apple clearly wasn't willing to do. That's in stark contrast to what Nokia says it wants in its lawsuit -- all it's asked the court for is past due license fees on its patents. (Which is odd, if you think about it: Nokia wouldn't come to terms on a license that didn't include iPhone patents, but it'll spend the cash on litigation for past due fees? That seems silly.) Oh, and if you're just in this for the bitchy quotes, here you go:
We'll let you know if we see anything else of interest, but we'd say we're in for a long, bumpy ride here.As Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's executive Vice President and General Manager of Multimedia, stated at Nokia's GoPlay event in 2007 when asked about the similarities of Nokia's new offerings to the already released iPhone:"[i]f there is something good in the world, we copy with pride." True to this quote, Nokia has demonstrated its willingness to copy Apple's iPhone ideas as well as Apple's basic computing technologies, all while demanding Apple pay for access to Nokia's purported standards essential patent.
So it's finally happening, the patent wars.
Is John Connor safe?
@Poop Chef
I think you mean Kyle Reese...
@Prel
I believe I came up with the name Patient War, I'm sueing.
@Prel
I really hope a whole bunch of companies due Apple at the same time. I'm talking big companies that have the money to throw at this, HP, Dell, Sony--everyone, I don't care how tenuous the charges. Those smug bastards deserve their own medicine.
@Timmie
I hope you're not fucking serious, because you just spelled patent like patient.
@Prel Begun, the Patent Wars have.
@cyberdyne idiot... go get a life you fucking loser! pretending to put on an act, pss my dog can do a better job at that! FUCK OFF!
"Other companies must compete with us by inventing their own technologies, not just by stealing ours"
I lol'd , why should they steal nokia's statement o.O
@Nokia N900. To show them what it's like to have things copied from them! lol
@Nokia N900 "If there is something good in the world, we copy with pride." -Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's Executive Vice President and General Manager of Multimedia 2007
@CapnHowdy & what/how/where exactly have they implemented this quote?
@Munk RTFA
@CapnHowdy Ready, Team, Fire! Assist!
"Good artists copy, great artists steal, and we have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." - Steve Jobs.
So..umm, your fucking point?
@N900 This quote is out of context. It was in regards to the GUI on the XEROX computer, which was neither patented or copyrighted.
@packy17
And "something good" is patentable? Well, if it's Apple we're talking about, it must be!
/s
@Nokia N900
If Apple does it, it means it is not theft. - Nixon
@Nokia N900
nokia didnt do anything wrong! apple's ass is aching because its going to be left behind.
I believe I just read an article somewhere about Apple being sued and people were complaining because they thought it was wrong Apple would get sued. They claimed Apple wouldn't do the same in the same situation. Yet here we are....
With all the patents Apple has made, of which I doubt we will see products from, expect to see more and more lawsuits coming from Apple.
@Jordan
Oh just wait for the 180 from the Apple kids on this one. They think Apple invented everything and have been hoping for them to sue everyone for years.
I'm also interested in hearing the terms "patent troll" being tossed about by those same folks at Apple.
Just go back to the original Nokia lawsuit thread and compare what you see from them there to what you will see here.
@Jordan .. Err. Apple is using its patents to DEFEND against Nokia who was proactively suing Apple for patent infringement. Did you honestly expect Apple to just lie back and take it ?
Nokia shouldn't have sued Apple in the first place !
@taligent
"Nokia shouldn't have sued Apple in the first place !"
Why? Because their Apple and Nokia needs to realize that Apple is just sooooo awesome and needs to just leave them alone?
@taligent "Did you honestly expect Apple to just lie back and take it ?"
Ever since jobs started taking time off that's slowly changing. Their most recent rape was at the hands of the FCC.
@LAY .. I have NO, repeat NO problem with Nokia suing Apple. I wish them all the best. I am just not some biased fanboi who thinks that if Apple sues back that somehow that makes Apple bad. They are both bad. Get it ?
@LAY @Jordan
Oh yeah, you guys are totally right. Apple should just let Nokia infringe on its patents. LOL. Nokia obviously wasn't so generous, but you don't have any problem with that, do you? No, you only have a problem when Apple defends their patents. Not when anybody else does it. Just Apple.
And people think you two are braindead Apple haters. You sure proved them wrong!
@Jordan I am an Apple user, and I think all of these companies should just STFU. Rather than patenting things then suing the crap out of each other, they should all collaborate on standards that benefit us folks using their products.
@LAY
"Oh just wait for the 180 from the Apple kids on this one. They think Apple invented everything and have been hoping for them to sue everyone for years."
hahahahahaha,
nobody thinks Apple invented everything.
it's just the rubes who drink the haterade that are convinced there are people out there believing Apple has invented "everything"
@logicbombde "nobody thinks Apple invented everything."
You've never stumbled across places like AppleInsider, let alone roughlydrafted...
@Jordan
Its a countersuit, dumbass. Patent troll initiate patent suits. This is the same thing Apple did when Creative sued them for the "Zen patent."
@Jack: If you weren't such an idiot you would realize that I'm not complaining about Apple suing, what I'm pointing out is that a company sues Apple for patent infringement and Apple bots complain it's wrong and that companies shouldn't be suing Apple. Apple sues people and it's the coming of Jesus and we should all respect it because it's good. If Apple wants to sue, Apple should sue. The way the system is run they have every right, but fangirls need to get their panties out of a bunch just because Apple is getting sued for the same reason.
I agree with the person who stated companies should stop suing. We should forget about patents, the system doesn't work and screws everybody over in the end. Either that or limit the patent to like a year. Let a company regain what it invested in developing the products, and then game on. Let the competition in. How many patents are created that never have products that come to life? This is stupid, pointless, and idiotic. Use it or don't. Apple is doing the same thing, patenting everything they can possibly think of lately, and I expect to see more stupid lawsuits coming from them because of this, with no products from them to show for it.
This is starting to get childish for both companies....
@Jordan:
When someone comes up with a good idea, they deserve to profit from it if they choose to. Without that, there would be no incentive to invest in R&D and invent new things. Some people choose to allow others to use their ideas, but nobody should be forced to do that. I'm all for discussing alternatives to the patent system if you feel it's flawed – as long as it still protects inventors' ideas and investors' money.
As for Apple patenting everything under the sun, I'd be curious to see how often other companies patent ideas. Is Apple really patenting substantially more, or does an Apple patent just get more coverage? Regardless though, if you come up with an idea, it's your right to decide what to do with it. If you decide to do nothing for years or the entire life of the patent, that's your right, too.
@Jordan No this is only getting childish for the forum trolls who want to hate on one or the other company. You guys clearly do not understand the business world at all if you don't see the reason for either company to sue. The saying goes, if you don't aggressively protect your IP's, you will lose them, plain and simple. Nokia should be protecting their IP's, as well as Apple. Steve Jobs did state at the Macworld 2007 keynote that they "intend to protect" the over 100 new patents filed for iPhone. Anytime a product like the iPhone comes, especially in a very competitive industry, things like this happen all the time since the competition all wants their own. They are only doing what they need to as a business. Especially given the fact that Nokia basically tried to force Apple to hand over its patent licenses with the original suit.
@(Unverified): A person/company does deserve to profit from it, and that's where a patent can be used. But companies, not only Apple, should not be patenting things just for the hell of it and then never doing anything with them. This prevents progress. Someone else can come along later, think of the idea, want to do something with it, but can't because some dumbass is sitting on some patent that they have no intentions of using. I believe a patent should only be granted if a product is using it. Patenting something to use 20 years later is a bunch of BS.
@(Unverified) Did you mean to reply to me? Because if you did then I agree on both of your accounts. Secondly, I do believe that the companies have a right to defend each other's patents; such is the reason why I can't say stuff like "Apple is being stupid here" or "Nokia is a stupid patent troll". I can't really pass judgement into either scenario; in fact I fully defended the right to protect patents back in the Apple/Opti Case earlier:
""Patent Trolling" is the best 2 words a fanboy could ever put together.
While companies forcing others to pay for infringement is a bitch, it's called business. If I create something and patent it, even if it's a stupid piece of technology at the time or it may seem minuscule at the time, I have a right to protect that minuscule patent. EVERY company does this, even Apple."
I'm not rooting for a winner here, and I acknowledge that what these companies engage in while battling in court is indeed business, but I can't retract my belief that companies refrain from immaturity while doing so. My prime example for that is AT&T/Verizon.
@Jordan
These lawsuits are another form earning revenue. They flood with all the patents and then investigate which competitor is using the most similar DSP or the most simple touchscreen technology and then rain down wid shitloads of suits!
Its like registering for millions of .com domains and then in future cashing in on it.
@Jordan
Responding to a punch is different than throwing the first punch. Apple very rarely takes the predatory role on patent litigation. I can't really think of a single example in the "modern era" of Apple where they have set out to enforce patents. It's something that companies do when they are facing a downturn and need to make up lost revenue. Nokia has a pretty good case on some of these patents and so does Apple. In the end it certainly discourages other companies from suing Apple knowing they will likely have to cross-license technology. It makes the whole patent money grab lawsuit business model less appealing if the other side is going to fight back.
@Jordan
as more and more people get off of apple's cock, apple will realize that its going sink quickly so they made all these fucking patents, and/but wont develop shit because theyre looking to make money from other companies who will "infringe"! FUCK YOU JOBS! and FUCK the rest of you who disagree, just fuck off!! i dont want to hear your butt aches!
nokia didnt do anything wrong!
@Jordan
You continue to bitch about Apple and their patents while blatantly ignoring the fact that Nokia sued Apple FIRST. For PATENT INFRINGEMENT. If you weren't such an apologist for every company Apple interacts with, you might be objective enough to see why your posts here are so hilariously bad.
Biased? No, not you. Clearly. In your world, Apple is the only company that does anything wrong, which is why you make sure to say as much every time you post anything. Like I said, hilarious.
@Atkins
hehe sorry guys i got carried away. it happens and will happen from time to time, just bear with it, thanks.
That's a pretty damn nice thing to say.
It's like saying you should fuck with your own rod, not theirs.
What is with the Nokia fish emblem?
@FraggleRock
I think it's their original logo.
@FraggleRock
Thats logo from year 1865, maybe Nokia have bit more patent muscle than Apple on mobile world. Not saying that they made phones 100 years ago but still decades before Apple.
okay then
@FraggleRock
To put things in perspective....here is a quote from wikipedia:
"....Nokia had R&D presence in 16 countries and employed 39,350 people in research and development, representing approximately 31% of the group's total workforce."
According to Wikipedia Apple has about 35,000 employees in total.
In other words Nokia has invested more researchers and engineers into creating new innovative technologies than Apple's total employees put together. It is a very visionary, innovative, and flexible company. I can't wait to see what they will create in the future and this patent lawsuit is only the tip of the iceberg for their plan become a true contender in the smart phone market.
@Atkins You think progress in R&D *doesn't* increase with more staff? They really need to let the 39,349 researchers go in if so...
Apple, fail.
@Paullll Not yet, my friend. Not yet...
Nokia use patent sue! 10HP, its a crittical hit!
Apple counter sue! 13HP, its super effective!