wait i thought all the microsofties were on here telling us how Apple would ignore this problem and never come up with a fix for it... Now, they patch it, and they're all in here with some other whininess... pathetic.
And your intent was to say that ALL Macs work out of the box? I.E. a 100% operability rate? Or are you smart enough to know that there's always a small percentage that won't work due to manufacturing errors?
@Jordan Well, they do work right out of the box. You just need to plug them in. And be happy with a big beautiful screen that can display up to 1080p, but only really plays regular DVDs and itunes store videos. Sigh.. But It's a really pretty screen though.
If one (or a small sampling) computer leaves the factory with a problem, you don't put out an update for all computers, you just fix the one.
Software does not indiscriminately decide to work on some computers, but not on others. So since this is not an anomaly as shown by the fact they are updating all computers, this does, in fact, affect 100% of all 27" iMacs.
Except for the fact that it's only a tiny percentage of the 27" iMacs that are actually presenting this problem. Take note that this is a firmware upgrade to the VIDEO CARDS in the iMacs. Are you going to try to tell me that there is no possibility that some of those video cards had a problem that the rest of them didn't?
The fact that the majority of 27" iMacs aren't having any problems would seem to disagree with you on this.
"Except for the fact that it's only a tiny percentage of the 27" iMacs that are actually presenting this problem. "
Except that, that's wrong.
You're right, it is a firmware update. But you don't think Apple pushed this firmware update as soon as it was available? You think they began using it in the factory a month ago and just dicked around getting it out to people? This update JUST became available, maybe JUST made Macs already contain it, but all of those shipped already, all of those in peoples hands, are faulty until updated.
You are sure about that? You have data to back up your assertion that only a small portion of people have this problem? Or are you going by the typical Apple excuse that accompanies their bug fixes of "This is to fix a problem a small number may encounter"? Or are you going by anecdotal evidence that you and or friends don't have this problem, so it is not really a problem at all?
While we can say that all 27" iMac computers, if they contain the same firmware version, have this bug, the inverse cannot be said.
@Jack You know I've had just about enough of your fanboi ridden posts. It's no wonder that you get ranked down constantly. Are you being obtuse on purpose?
Regardless of if it is the video card's that are having the issue, you know the one you claim to barely exist, the patch was still deployed. Don't expect any sympathy from me, when it comes to needling Apple after running such smug and arrogant campaigns.
Think of it like this, if I went around staying, "I am the best, better than the rest!", and then made a mistake, most people would have little to know sympathy for me either for being such a twit.
"Except for the fact that it's only a tiny percentage of the 27" iMacs that are actually presenting this problem."
You sure about this, is it fact like you claim, or are opinions held facts in RDF-land.
Read through the people having genuine problems on Apple's forum, and tell me that the sample size is still small:
Damn, you can only enter 3 URLs on Engadget. So read through that official Apple Support Forum and tell me noones having general problems with the 27" iMac. You know apologizing for an issue that you say affects almost noone actually has...:
The problem either exists or it doesnt, and all the astroturfing in the world doesnt change that. While I agree that it is perfectly normal to have unforeseen manufacturing defects, I have no mercy for company and reps (like Apple, or Ballmer's stupid iPhone comment) who are smug in their marketing.
It's people like you that make others think Mac users are dicks. My sister is a Apple fan, and just purchased the 27" iMac, it came with the screen tearing issue, but let me guess, she doesn't exist, the problem doesn't exist, LALALALALA, amirite?
Steve Jobs release a patch with one hand while holding up four fingers on the other and asks Jack, "How many fingers am I holding up" Jack: "Five"
You can have enough of whatever you want, but if you can't prove me wrong then I'm not being obtuse, am I? See, the problem here is that you think Apple is "smug" and "arrogant". But here's a news flash for you: Apple is a large corporation, and as such can't actually be smug or arrogant.
So guess where the problem is? That's right. You're the problem. Now, for you and those of you who doubt it's a small percentage of iMacs having this problem, have you checked? How many reported instances are there, vs. the total number of 27" iMacs sold?
You think it's going to be 100%? Really? You know, people don't generally call Apple and complain if they're not having problems. I mean please feel free to prove me wrong on this. Please. Do it.
You all seem so sure that I'm wrong, yet none of you can prove it, or even come up with a reasonable argument against it. You're just raging against the machine, and only because it's Apple. But you're not biased or anything, right? Surely not.
Sure there are a lot of posts on Apple's forum about this. How many? And once again, out of how many iMacs total? That's the piece of this puzzle you are not taking into account. In your fantasy world, your sister's one instance + the number of complaints on the forums = 100% of all iMacs.
Seriously? Do I need to point out how stupid that is? You can insult me all you want but until you can prove me wrong you really have no leg to stand on. Oh, and if you used some common sense, that would help too.
For the record, I've had enough of idiot Apple-hating posts made by morons, which is why I choose to respond to posts like these, and to people like you. Show that you're capable of rational thought without being biased against Apple and you will be treated differently. Funny how that works, huh?
Buying Apple is Un-American. Think of how many companies exist in the PC world. By buying everything, software and hardware, from one company, think of how many companies you are hurting. Think of how many jobs you are putting at risk. Buying Apple is more Un-American than buying foreign cars.
"But you're not biased or anything, right? Surely not"
That's why I'm not biased. I support many different companies through my purchases. Not one evil one hiding behind a shiny piece of fruit.
Commenters believe that since you pay a lot more for Apple computers, that 100% of them are going to be perfect. 99.8% isn't good enough. Since most Windows PCs are very cheap, they believe that even a 40% failure rate is tolerable. In other words, they solidly believe that people should get what they pay for.
@Atkins There is a slight flaw in your logic, this is counting the number of threads/posts of people that have posted complaints. That's like pulling reliability information for cars from the number of people that complained on the manufacturers website and a few car forums. Number of complaints on a website != number of actual defects. It doesn't take into account the number of people that have search for a solution. They then found these complaints and/or Apple's response on a upcoming fix and said nothing. But go ahead and spin it which ever way you want, that's why they invented statistics.
@Atkins: You mean like how OSX development got put on hold for the iPhone because they had to pull the resources (people) who were working on it to work on the iPhone. This in effect proves that Apple employees few people comparitively speaking to many different companies combined. Therefore, buying all Apple truely does support far fewer people than buying PCs which, once again, support hardware and software from many different vendors.
That is quite possibly the dumbest argument I have EVER SEEN.
"Un-American"? Do you even read what you're writing? How anybody could be stupid enough to believe that buying Apple products as opposed to Microsoft or anybody else's is actually negatively affecting the economy is simply mind boggling. It would require actual mental disfunction or maybe schizophrenia to believe something like that. Or maybe just good old fashioned stupidity.
There is so much wrong with your reasoning I'm not even sure I can cover it all in one post. Do you ever look at the stock market or even have the slightest idea of how our economy works? Try asking somebody with a brain if Apple is hurting our economy, you half wit.
Oh and your foreign car example is great, watch this: Chevy Camaros are built in Canada. Are they American? Subarus are built in Indiana by US auto workers, are they foreign? Which one gives US auto workers employment and which one doesn't? Idiot.
And since you're so convinced I would like you to explain EXACTLY how buy Apple computers is putting jobs at risk, especially when compared with any other computer hardware company. You bring up a lot of vague "they took our JEORBS" complaints but I'll bet you can't back any of them up with facts.
And finally, do you actually believe you're not biased? Are you really that completely stupid? Both here and on TUAW, all you do is troll Apple threads, and every single comment you make is about how much Apple or Apple products suck. How does that make you NOT biased? Care to explain that? Or do you need a dictionary so you can look up what "biased" means?
After this post I now think you are dumber than I thought you were originally. And that is REALLY saying something. Good job.
Except what you're paying for is not a guarantee that all Macs will be completely 100% problem free. Nobody can make that guarantee simply because of the law of averages. What you're paying for is a better computer.
Apple, it's hardware and it's software all belong to one company. Yes, some parts are made, by mostly, Intel. Now you buy Apple products - AND ALL YOU GET IS APPLE. There are not near as many vendors supporting the Apple platform. Buy an iPhone, you're locked into iTunes. Buy an iPod - you're locked into iTunes.
Now buy a PC. Yes it comes with an OS from Miocrosoft, BUT THAT'S IT. You could actually build a PC with parts all from different manufacturers. You could use Linux, do whatever you want. This model supports many companies, many many people, and much more competition and innovation.
Buy Apple - you support one company pulling resources from one division to the next in order to not hire new people. Don't buy Apple - you support many many companies and many many people.
@Jordan. if you are trying to imply that ALL the 27 inch computers have had problems, you are the wrong one. I work every day around over two dozen, a handful of store bought duos and quads and some custom i7s and none of them have had any graphics issues of any kind.
so I can tell you first hand that some have been just fine.
@Jordan Seriously Jordan you are so anti-Apple that you make arguments that make no sense. Many, many, many manufacturers (U.S. and foreign) go into making the parts for any Apple product. It is MY CHOICE to buy a fully integrated product (HW and OS) not any one else's and that is FUNDAMENTALLY AMERICAN! If you don't like it don't buy it. I wonder about people who hate Apple products so vehemently - I myself love Apple, HP (I have an HP Mini and an HP laptop) and yes I'll say it - I like Windows 7. I use whatever I like to use and that which makes my life easier and Apple does just that plus they have killer design - which is another thing I really like. I'll buy products that cost more and do the same thing because they have better design and I feel the maker has put some thought into their product. Apple DOES NOT make components - it designs computers! Same thing as for PC Manufacturers. Take for example the components for an iMac 27 inch: CPU : Intel Memory : one of the 9 or 10 manufacturers that make memory HD : Western Digital or Hitachi Motherboard : Some Asian contract manufacturer (who make most if not ALL motherboards for ALL PC manufacturers) - these motherboards are manufactured from parts (microchips, capacitors etc... that come from a bunch of other manufacturers). I could go on.... Saying that buying an Apple product is un-American is like saying that buying a car from GM or Ford is unamerican because the whole car comes from only one manufacturer! Or buying a toothbrush from Johnson and Johnson is un-american because they make both the handle and the bristles.
The Triumph proved to be one of the better looking and performing pre-paid handsets we'd had the pleasure of holding in our sweaty mitts, but we had one major hangup: the name.
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wait i thought all the microsofties were on here telling us how Apple would ignore this problem and never come up with a fix for it...
Now, they patch it, and they're all in here with some other whininess... pathetic.
@Nicnac: But I thought Macs just worked out of the box?
@Jordan
Yes, because Apple claimed that Macs have a 100% operability rate with zero manufacturing defects.
Oh wait, no they didn't. Anything else you'd like to claim that Apple said?
@Jordan
You almost had me at "I thought"
@Jack:
"Apple claimed that Macs have a 100% operability rate with zero manufacturing defects"
That's not what I said, what I said Apple claims is that "Macs just work out of the box."
Care to put any more words in my mouth?
@Jack: Besides, one Mac arriving defective is different than ALL Macs arriving defective.
@Jordan
And your intent was to say that ALL Macs work out of the box? I.E. a 100% operability rate? Or are you smart enough to know that there's always a small percentage that won't work due to manufacturing errors?
I have my doubts.
@Jordan Well, they do work right out of the box. You just need to plug them in. And be happy with a big beautiful screen that can display up to 1080p, but only really plays regular DVDs and itunes store videos. Sigh.. But It's a really pretty screen though.
@Jack
If one (or a small sampling) computer leaves the factory with a problem, you don't put out an update for all computers, you just fix the one.
Software does not indiscriminately decide to work on some computers, but not on others. So since this is not an anomaly as shown by the fact they are updating all computers, this does, in fact, affect 100% of all 27" iMacs.
@Steve Jobs Is My Gimp
Except for the fact that it's only a tiny percentage of the 27" iMacs that are actually presenting this problem. Take note that this is a firmware upgrade to the VIDEO CARDS in the iMacs. Are you going to try to tell me that there is no possibility that some of those video cards had a problem that the rest of them didn't?
The fact that the majority of 27" iMacs aren't having any problems would seem to disagree with you on this.
@Jack:
"Except for the fact that it's only a tiny percentage of the 27" iMacs that are actually presenting this problem. "
Except that, that's wrong.
You're right, it is a firmware update. But you don't think Apple pushed this firmware update as soon as it was available? You think they began using it in the factory a month ago and just dicked around getting it out to people? This update JUST became available, maybe JUST made Macs already contain it, but all of those shipped already, all of those in peoples hands, are faulty until updated.
@Jack
You are sure about that? You have data to back up your assertion that only a small portion of people have this problem? Or are you going by the typical Apple excuse that accompanies their bug fixes of "This is to fix a problem a small number may encounter"? Or are you going by anecdotal evidence that you and or friends don't have this problem, so it is not really a problem at all?
While we can say that all 27" iMac computers, if they contain the same firmware version, have this bug, the inverse cannot be said.
@Jordan That's right. Macs just work. What's so hard to understand about that? Ever used a Mac before?
@Jack
You know I've had just about enough of your fanboi ridden posts. It's no wonder that you get ranked down constantly. Are you being obtuse on purpose?
Regardless of if it is the video card's that are having the issue, you know the one you claim to barely exist, the patch was still deployed. Don't expect any sympathy from me, when it comes to needling Apple after running such smug and arrogant campaigns.
Think of it like this, if I went around staying, "I am the best, better than the rest!", and then made a mistake, most people would have little to know sympathy for me either for being such a twit.
"Except for the fact that it's only a tiny percentage of the 27" iMacs that are actually presenting this problem."
You sure about this, is it fact like you claim, or are opinions held facts in RDF-land.
Read through the people having genuine problems on Apple's forum, and tell me that the sample size is still small:
http://discussions.info.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=189&start=240#threads
Damn, you can only enter 3 URLs on Engadget. So read through that official Apple Support Forum and tell me noones having general problems with the 27" iMac. You know apologizing for an issue that you say affects almost noone actually has...:
"Apple apologizes for iMac delays, keeps mum on DOA / display issues"
http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/14/apple-apologizes-for-imac-delays-keeps-mum-on-doa-display-iss/
The problem either exists or it doesnt, and all the astroturfing in the world doesnt change that. While I agree that it is perfectly normal to have unforeseen manufacturing defects, I have no mercy for company and reps (like Apple, or Ballmer's stupid iPhone comment) who are smug in their marketing.
It's people like you that make others think Mac users are dicks. My sister is a Apple fan, and just purchased the 27" iMac, it came with the screen tearing issue, but let me guess, she doesn't exist, the problem doesn't exist, LALALALALA, amirite?
Steve Jobs release a patch with one hand while holding up four fingers on the other and asks Jack,
"How many fingers am I holding up"
Jack: "Five"
@Andurilan
You can have enough of whatever you want, but if you can't prove me wrong then I'm not being obtuse, am I? See, the problem here is that you think Apple is "smug" and "arrogant". But here's a news flash for you: Apple is a large corporation, and as such can't actually be smug or arrogant.
So guess where the problem is? That's right. You're the problem. Now, for you and those of you who doubt it's a small percentage of iMacs having this problem, have you checked? How many reported instances are there, vs. the total number of 27" iMacs sold?
You think it's going to be 100%? Really? You know, people don't generally call Apple and complain if they're not having problems. I mean please feel free to prove me wrong on this. Please. Do it.
You all seem so sure that I'm wrong, yet none of you can prove it, or even come up with a reasonable argument against it. You're just raging against the machine, and only because it's Apple. But you're not biased or anything, right? Surely not.
Sure there are a lot of posts on Apple's forum about this. How many? And once again, out of how many iMacs total? That's the piece of this puzzle you are not taking into account. In your fantasy world, your sister's one instance + the number of complaints on the forums = 100% of all iMacs.
Seriously? Do I need to point out how stupid that is? You can insult me all you want but until you can prove me wrong you really have no leg to stand on. Oh, and if you used some common sense, that would help too.
For the record, I've had enough of idiot Apple-hating posts made by morons, which is why I choose to respond to posts like these, and to people like you. Show that you're capable of rational thought without being biased against Apple and you will be treated differently. Funny how that works, huh?
@Jack:
Buying Apple is Un-American. Think of how many companies exist in the PC world. By buying everything, software and hardware, from one company, think of how many companies you are hurting. Think of how many jobs you are putting at risk. Buying Apple is more Un-American than buying foreign cars.
"But you're not biased or anything, right? Surely not"
That's why I'm not biased. I support many different companies through my purchases. Not one evil one hiding behind a shiny piece of fruit.
@Jack
Commenters believe that since you pay a lot more for Apple computers, that 100% of them are going to be perfect. 99.8% isn't good enough. Since most Windows PCs are very cheap, they believe that even a 40% failure rate is tolerable. In other words, they solidly believe that people should get what they pay for.
@Atkins There is a slight flaw in your logic, this is counting the number of threads/posts of people that have posted complaints. That's like pulling reliability information for cars from the number of people that complained on the manufacturers website and a few car forums. Number of complaints on a website != number of actual defects. It doesn't take into account the number of people that have search for a solution. They then found these complaints and/or Apple's response on a upcoming fix and said nothing. But go ahead and spin it which ever way you want, that's why they invented statistics.
@Atkins: You mean like how OSX development got put on hold for the iPhone because they had to pull the resources (people) who were working on it to work on the iPhone. This in effect proves that Apple employees few people comparitively speaking to many different companies combined. Therefore, buying all Apple truely does support far fewer people than buying PCs which, once again, support hardware and software from many different vendors.
@Jordan
@Jordan
That is quite possibly the dumbest argument I have EVER SEEN.
"Un-American"? Do you even read what you're writing? How anybody could be stupid enough to believe that buying Apple products as opposed to Microsoft or anybody else's is actually negatively affecting the economy is simply mind boggling. It would require actual mental disfunction or maybe schizophrenia to believe something like that. Or maybe just good old fashioned stupidity.
There is so much wrong with your reasoning I'm not even sure I can cover it all in one post. Do you ever look at the stock market or even have the slightest idea of how our economy works? Try asking somebody with a brain if Apple is hurting our economy, you half wit.
Oh and your foreign car example is great, watch this: Chevy Camaros are built in Canada. Are they American? Subarus are built in Indiana by US auto workers, are they foreign? Which one gives US auto workers employment and which one doesn't? Idiot.
And since you're so convinced I would like you to explain EXACTLY how buy Apple computers is putting jobs at risk, especially when compared with any other computer hardware company. You bring up a lot of vague "they took our JEORBS" complaints but I'll bet you can't back any of them up with facts.
And finally, do you actually believe you're not biased? Are you really that completely stupid? Both here and on TUAW, all you do is troll Apple threads, and every single comment you make is about how much Apple or Apple products suck. How does that make you NOT biased? Care to explain that? Or do you need a dictionary so you can look up what "biased" means?
After this post I now think you are dumber than I thought you were originally. And that is REALLY saying something. Good job.
@Average White Boy
Except what you're paying for is not a guarantee that all Macs will be completely 100% problem free. Nobody can make that guarantee simply because of the law of averages. What you're paying for is a better computer.
@Jack:
Do you actually believe YOU'RE not biased?
Let me explain, AGAIN, for your tiny tiny brain.
Apple, it's hardware and it's software all belong to one company. Yes, some parts are made, by mostly, Intel. Now you buy Apple products - AND ALL YOU GET IS APPLE. There are not near as many vendors supporting the Apple platform. Buy an iPhone, you're locked into iTunes. Buy an iPod - you're locked into iTunes.
Now buy a PC. Yes it comes with an OS from Miocrosoft, BUT THAT'S IT. You could actually build a PC with parts all from different manufacturers. You could use Linux, do whatever you want. This model supports many companies, many many people, and much more competition and innovation.
Buy Apple - you support one company pulling resources from one division to the next in order to not hire new people. Don't buy Apple - you support many many companies and many many people.
@Jordan. if you are trying to imply that ALL the 27 inch computers have had problems, you are the wrong one. I work every day around over two dozen, a handful of store bought duos and quads and some custom i7s and none of them have had any graphics issues of any kind.
so I can tell you first hand that some have been just fine.
@Jordan
Seriously Jordan you are so anti-Apple that you make arguments that make no sense. Many, many, many manufacturers (U.S. and foreign) go into making the parts for any Apple product. It is MY CHOICE to buy a fully integrated product (HW and OS) not any one else's and that is FUNDAMENTALLY AMERICAN! If you don't like it don't buy it. I wonder about people who hate Apple products so vehemently - I myself love Apple, HP (I have an HP Mini and an HP laptop) and yes I'll say it - I like Windows 7. I use whatever I like to use and that which makes my life easier and Apple does just that plus they have killer design - which is another thing I really like. I'll buy products that cost more and do the same thing because they have better design and I feel the maker has put some thought into their product.
Apple DOES NOT make components - it designs computers! Same thing as for PC Manufacturers.
Take for example the components for an iMac 27 inch:
CPU : Intel
Memory : one of the 9 or 10 manufacturers that make memory
HD : Western Digital or Hitachi
Motherboard : Some Asian contract manufacturer (who make most if not ALL motherboards for ALL PC manufacturers) - these motherboards are manufactured from parts (microchips, capacitors etc... that come from a bunch of other manufacturers).
I could go on....
Saying that buying an Apple product is un-American is like saying that buying a car from GM or Ford is unamerican because the whole car comes from only one manufacturer! Or buying a toothbrush from Johnson and Johnson is un-american because they make both the handle and the bristles.