Nokia brings Apple patent fight to the ITC, says most Apple products infringe

Looks like Nokia's pulling all the stops in its patent fight with Apple: in addition to the already-filed lawsuit, the Finnish company has now filed a complaint with the International Trade Commission, alleging that "virtually all" of Apple's products infringe one of seven patents covering user interfaces, cameras, antennas, and power management. Ouch. Of course, this is a pretty standard tactic as far as major patent disputes go -- this is just a second front of the same war, and we'd expect Apple to lodge an ITC complaint of its own in due time. What could make this interesting is the ITC's power to ban imports of infringing products in relatively short order, so we'll be keeping a close eye on this one.

[DeviantmacG Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:36PM]

Stop fighting , start making things Nokia! Your phones kinda sucks thes last years

[sycamore714 Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:58PM]

@DeviantmacG

My thoughts exactly.

[sycamore714 Posted Dec 29th 2009 4:58PM]

All Nokia Fanboys

Thanks for low ranking my earlier comment. Truth Hurts

[Sean Parker Posted Dec 29th 2009 5:33PM]

@DeviantmacG

I think it's kinda funny that they claim Apple is infringing with iPods, which have been out how long? Ten years almost?

[Itchy Britches Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:28PM]

@Sean Parker

Yeah, sounds like they really, really want to cross license Apple's multi-touch patents.

[blade235 Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:57PM]

@DeviantmacG I wish my phone would suck. My bitching girlfriend would be obsolete......

[Munk Posted Dec 29th 2009 9:05PM]

@Sean Parker & Nokia's been making phones for twenty?

Apple specialised the mp3 player with the ipod but Nokia phones were playing some sort of music since the late 90's. Could be possible that someone might be "duplicating" their methods and thus infringing.

Also, people here seem to have short memories. It was not that long ago that Creative sued Apple for infringing on their UI. People on blogs and Apple screamed foul but Apple did end up paying Creative.
There are various example's of such behavior over the years so lets not be so quick as to jump to conclusions.

[Flix C Posted Dec 30th 2009 11:50AM]

@Sean Parker
I think they refered to the iTouch, and Nokia has been here for how long ? 20 years ?

[Troll Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:36PM]

LETS GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEE

[br123 Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:39PM]

I'm wondering what they meant by "virtually all". Seems like they're a little unsure of themselves.

[ipxnsv Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:42PM]

@br123 They don't say virtually all, Engadget does. Read the article on SlashDot

[d0mth0ma5 Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:47PM]

@ipxnsv I read about this earlier on a couple of sources who also used similar language, Macrumors said "virtually all", the BBC said "almost all".

[d0mth0ma5 Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:50PM]

@ipxnsv I read a couple of articles earlier about this that used similar language, Macrumors "virtually all", PR Newswire "virtually all", BBC "almost all",

[BuryTheCastle Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:51PM]

@br123

What I'm wondering is, how come this didn't come up years ago?
I don't really know about patents, but I would assume these type of things were verified a good few years ago, right? So wouldn't you noticed it sooner?

[Lloytron Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:57PM]

@BuryTheCastle
If you own a patent that someone infringes, you wait until it is in the market and then the infringing company has no choice - license the technology or withdraw their products.

[Arkv2 Posted Dec 29th 2009 4:21PM]

@BuryTheCastle
Because they were waiting for their assets to be this bad :D

[newone Posted Dec 29th 2009 4:55PM]

@BuryTheCastle

They have been negotiating for 2 years for the iPhone.

The parties have different ideas what the patents are worth, theirs and oppositions. It comes to law suit to sort this out. Both start turning screws and the one that yells first wins.

[newone Posted Dec 29th 2009 4:56PM]

@(Unverified)

...yells last wins.

Damn comment system....

[XChrisX Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:10PM]

@BuryTheCastle Nokia is hurting, Apple is booming, you do the math.

[Dragonfly Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:39PM]

When push comes to shove, they're both gonna have to cross licence. Unless Apple really want to be stubborn and fight this thing to the bitter end.

[MarkAnderson Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:58PM]

@Dragonfly

Which is what it's all about really.

[Hunabku Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:04PM]

@Dragonfly Yup - all these other posts that said apple didn't offer anything are wrong. Apple did offer what other companies were offering for nokia ip. Only thing is Nokia tried to strong arm apple to get a hold of apple patents - "Nokia had not offered fair licensing terms, demanding reciprocal access to iPhone-related patents not relevant to industry standards."

The only thing Nokia deserves is to pay for all court fees and accept apples initial offer for fair market value of their patents. Now that they are pushing they may also have to pay apple more money than they are receiving while also setting a precedent for apple to go after a bunch of other copy-cats out there.

[newone Posted Dec 29th 2009 10:31PM]

@Hunabku "@Dragonfly Yup - all these other posts that said apple didn't offer anything are wrong. Apple did offer what other companies were offering for nokia ip. Only thing is Nokia tried to strong arm apple to get a hold of apple patents - "Nokia had not offered fair licensing terms, demanding reciprocal access to iPhone-related patents not relevant to industry standards.""

I don't think apple was offering to pay what the usual fee is. My bet is apple took the meam dollar mount that manufacturers pay and tried to get away with it. Industry standard is persentage based of the asking price, and as apple doesn't have any cheap phones they are trying to wiggle out of it.

This Nokia asking more from apple than getting from others is lawyer speak. My bet is that the biggest hurdle for apple has been the persentage based licensing fee as they get money upfront, and part of the phone bill. The claim that nokia increased the licensing fee in 2008 is a indication of this. In 2008 Nokia probably realised at apple is getting money from telcos too, and that money is part of the selling price -> persentage of that is fair game for license.

If anybody thinks persetage is unfair, and should be dollars per device is really trying to shaft the developing nations. It would mean low end phones would cost upto 25% more.

[CJisohsocool Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:39PM]

Seriously? I mean really. Stop being stupid. Stop suing each other and just make better phones.

[Sarig Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:57PM]

@CJisohsocool

Making better phones involve spending lots of money in research and development. And then someone else comes along and snatches your new stuff without giving you even a dime.

[(Unverified) Posted Dec 29th 2009 5:08PM]

@Sarig a mobile phone is just a small computer. Nokia didn't invent the computer. They just stole the idea from the computermakers. Oh wait, didn't Apple have already a small sized computer called Newton?

[Hunabku Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:34PM]

@Sarig

You're talking about nokia not offering money to apple right? It is amazing how knee-jerk people get when there is an opportunity to bash apple. Seems like they shut off their brain and jump to conclusions with no research whatsoever. And then follows a legion of apple hating engaget zombies that vote up any anti-apple comment.

In the future please consider actually engaging your minds and not solely following knee-jerk reactions as that is what most americans do with political views and hopefully we can rise above that here.

[Millah Posted Dec 30th 2009 3:29AM]

@Hunabku Yea, I've never seen so many Apple haters on one site. Engadget is a joke, I can understand people not liking their products, but this site is just filled with brainless fanboys who don't even know why they hate them.

Thats why I go on Gizmodo, at least theres more neutral and rational people there who aren't on some quest to down rank anyone who doesn't have a blind hatred for Apple.

[Tigres Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:41PM]

Someone sounds a little concerned of their future.

[MarkAnderson Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:59PM]

@Tigres

Nope. Someone sounds a little pissed off that they're not getting paid for their work.

[HotFuzz Posted Dec 29th 2009 4:14PM]

@MarkAnderson:

Really Mark? Apple is ripping off all of Nokia's pioneering work in...computers? Yet no one else is?

I realize your burning loathing of everything Apple makes rational thought impossible, but can't you at least *try*?

The complete domination of Engadget comments by the Apple haters brigade has become laughable. I'd love to see a return to real discussion about technology.

[MarkAnderson Posted Dec 29th 2009 4:45PM]

@HotFuzz

7/10. Would read again.

Typed on my Macbook incidentally.

[NohOne1 Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:20PM]

@HotFuzz

Waaaaaaah! These evil Apple haters, there are just so many of them. And all they do is say mean things, and that should not be allowed, and if it does not stop, then I am going to tell my mommy on them!

Grow a pair you pathetic spoiled little brat.

BTW: Really? Now everything is Apple's creation because Apple make computers, and a Nokia phone is a computer, so therefore Apple is the originator of all that Nokia makes? Are you really that pathetic to make that argument? Hmmm, well I guess 10,000 years ago when Thag rubbed two sticks together, that created fire, which melted some of the sand, wich created silicon, which is used in the manufacture of CPUs. So Apple really just stole Thag's invention, not to mention that Apple is using 10,000 year old technology. Apple is really behind...

Oh, and one last thing: iPriest and HotFuzz make the same argument. Hmmmm...

[Tchaikovsky Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:31PM]

^
^
This NohOne1 sounds crazy!

[N900 Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:34PM]

Lol. Apple Haters. That's a good one.

[NohOne1 Posted Dec 29th 2009 6:47PM]

@Mack Stone

Hey Paul, so "Mack Stone" is your new alias now? I thought you said I was a stalker and were not going to respond to me any more.

[Tchaikovsky Posted Dec 29th 2009 7:05PM]

@Mack Stone He does seem to overreact. I see him call someone paul everyday. Who is paul?

[Tchaikovsky Posted Dec 29th 2009 7:05PM]

@Mack Stone BTW, funny video. Is that Jim Carry?

[NohOne1 Posted Dec 29th 2009 7:29PM]

@Tchaikovsky

Tchaikovsky, how would you know that I call people Paul every day? You must have a very good memory if of all the words written here on this web site, you can remember that I called two people "Paul" (once today, and one person a few days ago). And yes, I admit that I have called two "seperate" people Paul - I have no problems admitting to what I have said or did. I have nothing to hide like others around here do.

[Tchaikovsky Posted Dec 29th 2009 7:53PM]

@NohOne1 I remeber because your the only one hear that makes those long speeches about Apple everyday. You making all PC fans look like raving lunatics. I've been reading you call people paul for months so don't deny you do it.

[HotFuzz Posted Dec 29th 2009 8:40PM]

@MarkAnderson

I don't care if you wear Steve Jobs underoos, your comment history speaks for itself. And anyone who doesn't recognize that the Engadget comments section has been hijacked by Ballmer licking tools is oblivious.

Ah, I hear them coming now, to downrank me again.

@ NohOne1: RTFA. Nokia is suing Apple for patent violations in almost all of their products, INCLUDING COMPUTERS. So while I never claimed that Apple invented the computer, apparently Nokia believes that Nokia did.

Reading is fundamental.

[NohOne1 Posted Dec 29th 2009 9:21PM]

@Tchaikovsky

Yep, you got me, the big PC user. A PC user that owns a Mac Mini, Mac Book, iPhone, iTouch, and Nano 5G - and uses all of them every day. And no, I don't have Windows installed in bootcamp nor Parallels, etc.

But pointing out when I have problems with Mac and PC (admittedly, I have more problems with my Apple gear so you hear about that more) and I am an Apple hater, rabid PC fanboy.

I guess what you are saying is that I should shut up about problems with Apple products because it hurts the feelings of Apple fanboys - and we don't want to hurt their little feelings. They are delicate.

[N900 Posted Dec 29th 2009 10:30PM]

@HotFuzz "I don't care if you wear Steve Jobs underoos....hijacked by Ballmer licking tools is oblivious."

Do you feel like you need to project such disturbing insults to get your point across? In fact, you didn't even counter Mark's argument. Just went on and on about underwear and..licking. Ew.

"So while I never claimed that Apple invented the computer, apparently Nokia believes that Nokia did."

Where's that exact statement? Seriously is that their actual statement, or your implication?

[NohOne1 Posted Dec 29th 2009 11:07PM]

@Atkins

Yes, I do own all those.

The iPhone because I needed a good web browser on the go. It has a good browser (at least after they fixed most of the crashes). I am on my 3rd iPhone 1st gen, and will tell you that story if you want.
I bought a Mini because I wanted to write apps for the iPhone. I have a couple on the AppStore right now.
The iTouch because I decided that I didn't want to keep using my iPhone for a dev platform, installing beta firmware and the such (I have enough problems with it locking up, didn't want to possibly destabilize it even more)
The Nano because I wanted a small device that took video, but not upgrade to the iPhone 3GS (don't want to pay the extra $ per month for the 3GS over the 1st gen just to have a video camera)
THe Mac Book because I am writing iPhone apps for work, and the company I work for gave me one of the older Mac Books they had (So technically I don't ***own*** that one)

Buy what you need to get the job done. That does not mean I will blindly praise Apple for everything they do and ignore the problems. Criticize when criticism is due.

[MarkAnderson Posted Dec 30th 2009 2:36AM]

@HotFuzz

Sorry but that's a 5/10 at best. I am reminded of this:

http://robert.accettura.com/blog/2008/07/31/leave-steve-jobs-alone/

[Illankid Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:42PM]

that one way of loosing money.....in courts!

[magic6435 Posted Dec 29th 2009 3:47PM]

Apple steals some stuff from Nokia and the response is "get over it move on stop wasting time" Microsoft or Google make something with a touch screen or in the color white and you people scream bloody murder that they are copying apple. man i love engadget readers.

[Dries Posted Dec 29th 2009 4:18PM]

@magic6435

I love you too. :)

[Mentat Posted Dec 29th 2009 4:57PM]

@magic6435
what are you talking about?

[Arkv2 Posted Dec 29th 2009 5:12PM]

@magic6435
Is there other reason to come here other than the comments?