Nokia must have some kind of insider info on the next gen iphone/tablet/time machine/portable fusion reactor apple is working on and they are trying everything they can to stop it from coming to market.... sad very sad for Nokia. May be they should innovate....just a though.
Nokia has more people working in R&D than Apple has in its entire workforce. They're not just the market leaders, but also the company with the most intellectual property when it comes to handheld devices and cell phones. The idea that Nokia doesn't innovate is absurd.
@flavioribeiro If Nokia has that many R&D then where is the innovation I have not seen a single Nokia product that I would lust over in many years....and before the pitch forks go up I have own a lot toys in my time Nokia to me they have been sitting on they laurels for far too long...they even admitted, this law suits is a way for them to buy time and to able to take a breather so they can dust off something and try to recapture their old glory.
But it's too late Apple, Google (Android) and even Palm have pass them and they are desperate...
What has Nokia done that has literally changed the entire market? That's what the iPhone did. THAT is innovation. If Nokia is spending that much on R&D and is still unable to compete with Apple's SINGLE DEVICE, where do you think the problem is?
Do you think Nokia would be throwing these lawsuits around if they didn't think Apple was in a position to seriously hurt them? Why would they bother otherwise? They didn't have a problem with the iPhone until it became apparent that they were losing market share to it. This is a case of sore loser syndrome, nothing more.
If Nokia were actually innovative and had R&D worth a crap they would be able to COMPETE. You know, like Moto/Verizon, Palm, Google, etc.
@Jack Do you think Apple products would be everything they are without Nokia innovation? Maybe Nokia doesn't sell the best products but if they are cranking out new IP to further the industry then I rank them pretty high in importance seeing how they are doing the R&D for other companies.
Entire product line? You mean... the iPhone? That IS the entire product line.
@Ryujin
The question is what would happen if the specific inventions Nokia is suing about didn't exist? Do you honestly believe that iPhone still wouldn't exist? Or does it make more sense to assume Apple would have just used different technology to make it work? Or that they would have come up with their own way of doing it?
You think Apple's entire product line is competing with Nokia? How is a Mac Pro competing with anything Nokia makes? Make a less stupid argument please.
"What has Nokia done that has literally changed the entire market?"
GSM phone is largely the brainchild of Erickson and Nokia. They practicly created the market.
Smartphones. First real smartphones were symbian phones, and it was Nokia that was the engine behind symbian.
Also what Nokia did was block microsoft domination on phones. Without Nokia windows would probably dominate phone market, and blocking that is a marketshanging.
Few facts. Worlds biggest camera manufacturer, Nokia if phones are included. Worlds biggest mp3 player manufacturer, Nokia if phones are included. Could be worlds biggest GPS manufacturer too.
iPhone is a marketchanges as Motorola RAZR was. For a time all people wanted was clamshell phones. Samsung changed market, for a while with their thin phones. As RAZR and Samsung, iPhones marketchange might be temporarily.
@(Unverified) It's funny how people (mainly North Americans) think that Nokias aren't good phones because the carriers there don't offer their phones on subsidised contracts. Leave the telco backwater that is US/Canada and you'll see how powerful Nokia are across the world.
I think you missed the point of the question. How did any of those things CHANGE THE MARKET? The most cameras in phones is a statistic, not something that changed the entire market. GSM is not the only technology out there, and if it didn't exist, Apple would have used whatever DID exist.
"The first smartphone" didn't change the market. The iPhone changed the market. See the difference? The first smartphones sucked ass, which is why they didn't change jack shit. You like all the good smartphones on the market now? You can thank APPLE for that. Not Nokia.
Finally, if these fine people weren't finished owning you, Data never raised shields. He was navigational, never tactical. That was Worf's position. Get thee back under your bridge, troll.
@Jack You're completely disregarding Nokia's past achievements, including its part in popularizing smartphones amongst other things, while simultaneously promoting apple as the single most important entity in the Cellular industry, bias much?
How did Nokia change the market with smartphones again? Oh right. They didn't. Isn't that the entire fucking point? In 10 years are people going to look back and remember how Nokia changed the entire landscape of mobile communication? No. They're going to remember how Apple did that with the iPhone. That is the point. Nokia hasn't done anything "game changing" in a very long time, if ever.
Furthermore, holding a patent on power management isn't "game changing", nor is it something exclusive to Nokia. Apple has its own patents on power management, you want to put up some money that Nokia isn't violating any of those? It goes both ways, especially as evidenced from the fact that Apple is countersuing for thirteen separate counts of patent infringement.
@Jack "How did Nokia change the market with smartphones again? Oh right. They didn't. Isn't that the entire fucking point? In 10 years are people going to look back and remember how Nokia changed the entire landscape of mobile communication? No. They're going to remember how Apple did that with the iPhone. That is the point. Nokia hasn't done anything "game changing" in a very long time, if ever."
You are apparently too young to remember pre GSM days of mobile phones. Nokia practicly created the mobile phone market.
Look up Nordic Mobile Telephone in wikipedia, the first fully-automatic cellular phone system. Got it? They created the first cellular infrastructure and phones for mobile telephones that dont work with human telephone operator connecting phones. Thats about as marketchanging as making the first diesel-electric train after steam locomotives or first cars after bicyckles.
They created smartphonemarket. If creating a market isn't marketchanging then nothing is.
"How did Nokia change the market with smartphones again? Oh right. They didn't. Isn't that the entire fucking point?"
No, it isnt... You're missing the entire point that he's trying to make you understand. For your sake let's word it like this, Apple wouldn't have been able to revolutionize the smartphone market if it hadn't been for Nokia.... Because there wouldn't have been a market to revolutionize or perhaps it would have been very different without some of Nokia's R&D. It's high time you realize that no one is disregarding Apples achievements in the market with the iPhone, whether you love or hate the phone it did change how other manufactures at least market their devices...
There's a lot of innovation going on in there, sure. But where's their product that contains all of these innovations?
It must be embarrassing for nokia that another company (and one that had never released a phone before) comes along and makes one that supposedly contains a bunch of technology that nokia thought of first, but couldn't get into an actual device.
I don't own an apple or a nokia, but I've yet to see nokia advertise a phone that contains all those features. If there is one, they're not doing a great job of marketing it.
I agree with Nokia being massive innovators within the market. But for the love of god whatever OS is on those phones is extremely painful to use nowadays.
"It must be embarrassing for nokia that another company (and one that had never released a phone before) comes along and makes one that supposedly contains a bunch of technology that nokia thought of first, but couldn't get into an actual device."
Philips & CDROMs. AFAIR they invented CDROM, but they also produced worst CDROM drives in the market. The problem is, both companies earn so much from royalties
"If there is one, they're not doing a great job of marketing it."
Great point. Google N900 and just predict upcoming products.
@(Unverified) agreed and to put more into perceptive for the simple people on here have a look at Nokia's product list and just image all the patents that they covered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nokia_products
@flavioribeiro you're right, but it's just that Apple has the best marketeers, they always manage to put their innovations in the spotlight even though there may be much bigger and better innovations than theirs.
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Nokia must have some kind of insider info on the next gen iphone/tablet/time machine/portable fusion reactor apple is working on and they are trying everything they can to stop it from coming to market.... sad very sad for Nokia.
May be they should innovate....just a though.
(shields up!!! mr. data)
@(Unverified)
Nokia has more people working in R&D than Apple has in its entire workforce. They're not just the market leaders, but also the company with the most intellectual property when it comes to handheld devices and cell phones. The idea that Nokia doesn't innovate is absurd.
@flavioribeiro
Nokia will probably win the GSM patents. They hold a lot of them. Apple will no doubt settle with them in the near future.
@flavioribeiro If Nokia has that many R&D then where is the innovation I have not seen a single Nokia product that I would lust over in many years....and before the pitch forks go up I have own a lot toys in my time Nokia to me they have been sitting on they laurels for far too long...they even admitted, this law suits is a way for them to buy time and to able to take a breather so they can dust off something and try to recapture their old glory.
But it's too late Apple, Google (Android) and even Palm have pass them and they are desperate...
@flavioribeiro
Agreed:
Smartphone: Nokia 9000 (1996 !!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9000_Communicator
Phone + MP3, Nokia 5510 (2001)
Smart phone with color screen, camera, OTA downloadable "apps", FULLY MULTITASKING & copy paste out of the box : Nokia 7650 (2002)
Phone + handheld gaming device: Nokia Ngage (2003)
Smart phone with GPS: N95 (Early 2007)
Not to mention they have been one of the biggest driving forces behind the GSM and UMTS technology itself.
@flavioribeiro
What has Nokia done that has literally changed the entire market? That's what the iPhone did. THAT is innovation. If Nokia is spending that much on R&D and is still unable to compete with Apple's SINGLE DEVICE, where do you think the problem is?
Do you think Nokia would be throwing these lawsuits around if they didn't think Apple was in a position to seriously hurt them? Why would they bother otherwise? They didn't have a problem with the iPhone until it became apparent that they were losing market share to it. This is a case of sore loser syndrome, nothing more.
If Nokia were actually innovative and had R&D worth a crap they would be able to COMPETE. You know, like Moto/Verizon, Palm, Google, etc.
@Jack Entire Product line!!! Not just a single product.
@Jack
Do you think Apple products would be everything they are without Nokia innovation? Maybe Nokia doesn't sell the best products but if they are cranking out new IP to further the industry then I rank them pretty high in importance seeing how they are doing the R&D for other companies.
@spartandre217
Entire product line? You mean... the iPhone? That IS the entire product line.
@Ryujin
The question is what would happen if the specific inventions Nokia is suing about didn't exist? Do you honestly believe that iPhone still wouldn't exist? Or does it make more sense to assume Apple would have just used different technology to make it work? Or that they would have come up with their own way of doing it?
@Jack
The iphone while one of the largest cash cows EVER does not constitute apple's entire product line.
@spartandre217
You think Apple's entire product line is competing with Nokia? How is a Mac Pro competing with anything Nokia makes? Make a less stupid argument please.
@Jack
"What has Nokia done that has literally changed the entire market?"
GSM phone is largely the brainchild of Erickson and Nokia. They practicly created the market.
Smartphones. First real smartphones were symbian phones, and it was Nokia that was the engine behind symbian.
Also what Nokia did was block microsoft domination on phones. Without Nokia windows would probably dominate phone market, and blocking that is a marketshanging.
Few facts. Worlds biggest camera manufacturer, Nokia if phones are included. Worlds biggest mp3 player manufacturer, Nokia if phones are included. Could be worlds biggest GPS manufacturer too.
iPhone is a marketchanges as Motorola RAZR was. For a time all people wanted was clamshell phones. Samsung changed market, for a while with their thin phones. As RAZR and Samsung, iPhones marketchange might be temporarily.
@(Unverified) It's funny how people (mainly North Americans) think that Nokias aren't good phones because the carriers there don't offer their phones on subsidised contracts. Leave the telco backwater that is US/Canada and you'll see how powerful Nokia are across the world.
@(Unverified)
I think you missed the point of the question. How did any of those things CHANGE THE MARKET? The most cameras in phones is a statistic, not something that changed the entire market. GSM is not the only technology out there, and if it didn't exist, Apple would have used whatever DID exist.
"The first smartphone" didn't change the market. The iPhone changed the market. See the difference? The first smartphones sucked ass, which is why they didn't change jack shit. You like all the good smartphones on the market now? You can thank APPLE for that. Not Nokia.
@(Unverified) (Original Poster)
Finally, if these fine people weren't finished owning you, Data never raised shields. He was navigational, never tactical. That was Worf's position. Get thee back under your bridge, troll.
@Jack
You're completely disregarding Nokia's past achievements, including its part in popularizing smartphones amongst other things, while simultaneously promoting apple as the single most important entity in the Cellular industry, bias much?
@Jack
Nokia has mentioned patents concerning power management& Wi-fi antennae amongst other things.
@spartandre217
How did Nokia change the market with smartphones again? Oh right. They didn't. Isn't that the entire fucking point? In 10 years are people going to look back and remember how Nokia changed the entire landscape of mobile communication? No. They're going to remember how Apple did that with the iPhone. That is the point. Nokia hasn't done anything "game changing" in a very long time, if ever.
Furthermore, holding a patent on power management isn't "game changing", nor is it something exclusive to Nokia. Apple has its own patents on power management, you want to put up some money that Nokia isn't violating any of those? It goes both ways, especially as evidenced from the fact that Apple is countersuing for thirteen separate counts of patent infringement.
@flavioribeiro That 's funny you should say that because every smartphone that Nokia makes has canned in every review for the past 3 years.
That market share you speak of with Nokia is from throwaway phones not smartphones.
@Jack
"How did Nokia change the market with smartphones again? Oh right. They didn't. Isn't that the entire fucking point? In 10 years are people going to look back and remember how Nokia changed the entire landscape of mobile communication? No. They're going to remember how Apple did that with the iPhone. That is the point. Nokia hasn't done anything "game changing" in a very long time, if ever."
You are apparently too young to remember pre GSM days of mobile phones. Nokia practicly created the mobile phone market.
Look up Nordic Mobile Telephone in wikipedia, the first fully-automatic cellular phone system. Got it? They created the first cellular infrastructure and phones for mobile telephones that dont work with human telephone operator connecting phones. Thats about as marketchanging as making the first diesel-electric train after steam locomotives or first cars after bicyckles.
They created smartphonemarket. If creating a market isn't marketchanging then nothing is.
iPhone is as marketchanging as RAZR was....
@Jack
"How did Nokia change the market with smartphones again? Oh right. They didn't. Isn't that the entire fucking point?"
No, it isnt... You're missing the entire point that he's trying to make you understand. For your sake let's word it like this, Apple wouldn't have been able to revolutionize the smartphone market if it hadn't been for Nokia.... Because there wouldn't have been a market to revolutionize or perhaps it would have been very different without some of Nokia's R&D. It's high time you realize that no one is disregarding Apples achievements in the market with the iPhone, whether you love or hate the phone it did change how other manufactures at least market their devices...
@flavioribeiro
There's a lot of innovation going on in there, sure. But where's their product that contains all of these innovations?
It must be embarrassing for nokia that another company (and one that had never released a phone before) comes along and makes one that supposedly contains a bunch of technology that nokia thought of first, but couldn't get into an actual device.
I don't own an apple or a nokia, but I've yet to see nokia advertise a phone that contains all those features. If there is one, they're not doing a great job of marketing it.
I agree with Nokia being massive innovators within the market. But for the love of god whatever OS is on those phones is extremely painful to use nowadays.
@(Unverified)
"It must be embarrassing for nokia that another company (and one that had never released a phone before) comes along and makes one that supposedly contains a bunch of technology that nokia thought of first, but couldn't get into an actual device."
Philips & CDROMs. AFAIR they invented CDROM, but they also produced worst CDROM drives in the market. The problem is, both companies earn so much from royalties
"If there is one, they're not doing a great job of marketing it."
Great point. Google N900 and just predict upcoming products.
@(Unverified)
no offence mate, but i think you should take another peek at the patents involved in the lawsuites.
Because from your comment, your saying you've never seen a nokia phone with power management, wifi etc?
just reading another news site who are reported this added a youtube clip, look how young steve jobs looks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU
@(Unverified) agreed and to put more into perceptive for the simple people on here have a look at Nokia's product list and just image all the patents that they covered
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nokia_products
@flavioribeiro you're right, but it's just that Apple has the best marketeers, they always manage to put their innovations in the spotlight even though there may be much bigger and better innovations than theirs.