Apple has a US Patent on multitouch... Forcing Google and others to exclude the feature from US versions of the operating system. Apple does not, however, have a EU patent on multitouch. Rather astonished that engadget does not mention it...
@pukerocket - Can you straight faced claim that the patent in question is not related to Apple's development of the iPhone? And actually, no. I'd rather blame the American patent law.
@Taijitu Android fully supports multitouch(try using Dolphin Browser on either the Nexus One or the Droid for an example of this, or the browser on the Droid Eris). So that kinda shoots a hole in that theory. The only thing it's left out of is the default Google apps installed on the phone, and even there a subtle version of it is there in the keyboard on the Nexus One.
@Taijitu That does not sound rigth there are many devices that use this tech in the US. I have a windows 7 machine that does just that. I think there migth be another reason. I don't really care as long as they just disable it and I can just hack it back on.
I'm also wondering why US patents aren't recognized in the EU and vice-versa. Shouldn't that be a big part of any free trade agreement? I guess not. I'll bet Apple's patent application was denied.
@Tobster The reason other companies support multitouch is because Apple is likely violating some of their patents too. Either Google isn't a patent troll (which seems likely) or they simply respect the law.
@MarcusMaximus - I'm very well aware that android supports it, since I'm the owner of a HTC Hero bought here in Denmark :-). The standard HTC browser also has multitouch in EU.
@JakeMG - Yeah... I'm aware. I just kinda thought of it as a hardware patent when i wrote the post xD.
Regarding Palm Pre's multitouch, there was a load of media buzz around January 28-30th last year regarding Palm breaking the Apple Patent, but I have in my 10 minutes of searching not found any follow up articles about lawsuits or the alike.
Yup, and that's why so many devices exclude the functionality. I mean look at the Pre, Pixi, Zune HD, HTC Hero (US)/Droid Eris, Asus Eee, etc. None of them have implemented pinch zoom gestures via multitouch because clearly Apple is working so hard to keep them from doing so......... wait...
If companies such as Palm, Microsoft, HTC, and Asus aren't afraid of Apple (since Apple has done very, very little to enforce this patent), why should Google worry? Fact is Apple doesn't technically even own the patent itself, only the company to whom the patent belongs, Fingerworks.
@Taijitu Thank you for bringing sanity to this site ("astonished" is right). That's been the obvious reason, and it's bizarre that Engadget continues to be surprised each time this comes up.
@Taijitu It has absolutely nothing to do with Apple's supposed multi-touch patents, if those things went to court they wouldn't hold as the idea and implementation aren't new. Google is very obviously not competing with Apple, as opposed to what you might think. Instead of offering the N1 on ATT and have it compete against the iPhone, they launched it for all other carriers that matter (yeah!), otherwise iPhone sales might drop (however slight, a drop in sales is still a drop). Without a Google phone alternative, every "smartphone" user for ATT will pick the iPhone instead. Multi-touch is Google's way of keeping android the perceived inferior of the platforms. Why would Google go so out of their way for this? Conflicts of interest. It's been hinted at (and sometimes demonstrated publicly) that there's an under-the-table relationship between Apple and Google. They both have a common competitor, MS, and there was the issue where share-holders and board-members owned stock and held positions at both companies. If both companies are perceived as competing in the market, then their shares jump everytime one company makes a public move that seems aimed at trumping the other. In reality, corporate pockets are getting bigger and US android costumers (not counting rooted devices here since the number of those is so insignificant) are getting shafted for it. Once android trumps OSX on the media's eyes, then Google's shares will soar (even more) and maybe then you'll get multitouch. Palm knows it, but they're not partnered up with anybody, they also know Apple has no bite to their multi-touch bark, and they needed a device that seemed to defy Apple to generate media buzz and hopefully get free advertisement for the product that was going to pull them out of the hole... last I saw they were still sinking.
@tosvus I just bought this from England. I suppose that means that I'm gonna get the multi-touch free US model. Is there not anyway I will be able to update it to include multi-touch when the UK version comes out?
Don't worry just like the hacker who got mutitouch off the Milestone onto the Droid the XDA guys within a matter of days if not hours will get on the American Nexus One.
@Xcelerate Really? So obvious that it took 10 years of touch devices (estimating, who knows really how long it's been from the stylus days)? Take it up with the patent office if you don't like it.
@Taijitu This is correct, it's a patent issue. And why didn't Engadget mention that that is the reason it can't be offered on an OEM U. S. handset?
It's the same reason why the iPhone is sold by other carriers in Europe and ATT's exclusivity does not apply over there. In fact, some European countries prohibit exclusive phone deals like carriers in the U. S. enjoy. (I think it has something to do with exclusivity defeats laws related to anti-trust, number portability and protectionism).
Seems that any Engadget author specifically talking about multi-touch would mention this is the reason why in the U. S. we won't see MT from an OEM/Carrier, but lucky we can get the feature from XDA. LOL.
So if Google is touting this phone as being sold "unlocked" why couldn't we just buy the Vodafone version that has multi touch enabled and use it in the US on the GSM carrier of our choice?
@Esquire0399 Don't forget that Eric Schmidt was on the Apple board, maybe he knows something the others don't. Perhaps Apple has every intention to sue and are just building up their case. Apple might just be waiting to deal with Nokia first before they think about the rest i.e. Palm, Asus, Microsoft and HTC.
@Esquire0399 Droid Eris actually does have multi-touch.. which is why I don't know why everyone is having this discussion. HTC said it during the Nexus launch. It's capable, now it's a software issue. If Eris has it, this definitely will.
Thats not quite the end of it. Any app with a map in it could use pinch to zoom. I'm baffled by how few third party apparently that have pinch zoom support.
if you do a little research, you'll see that Apple has rights to the phrase "multi-touch" and does not have a patent for the implementation of multi-touch. If you don't believe me, look at Web OS and HTC's Sense UI (their skin of Android that includes multi-touch) for starters.
why Google constantly leaves out multi-touch (mind you, I don't give a damn for pinch zooming, I would like it for things such as the virtual keyboard) is a mystery to everybody
@Jubeh I agree, it explains why google execs always get squirmy when multitouch comes up (if it was a simple patent issue they would have stated as much), and it also explains why google has left out a best-in-class music player from android. Certainly there are conflicts of interest since Google CEO (Eric Schmidt) was on Apple's board until last year.
As a developer and user, I find it irritating that android's development has been stifled to accommodate such back room dealings. Who knows what other technology google is leaving out of android?
During his WWDC keynote, Steve Jobs touted iCloud as a service that will sync many of your Apple devices, for free. Macs, iPhones, iPads, and even Windows computers can synchronize documents, contacts, calendar appointments, and other data.
The most commented posts on Engadget over the past 24 hours.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
What the heck? I guess I'm sticking with my iPhone for now then...
@tosvus - Actually, the iPhone is basically to blame for this...
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=multi-touch&s2=multitouch&OS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch&RS=multi-touch+AND+multitouch
Apple has a US Patent on multitouch... Forcing Google and others to exclude the feature from US versions of the operating system.
Apple does not, however, have a EU patent on multitouch. Rather astonished that engadget does not mention it...
@Taijitu
You are blaming a device? Very funny!
@Taijitu Yet Palm does it happily?
Am I missing something here?
@Taijitu Exactly. Software patents are not applicable in Europe, that's the only reason why Apple's multi-touch gestures are not protected there.
@pukerocket - Can you straight faced claim that the patent in question is not related to Apple's development of the iPhone?
And actually, no. I'd rather blame the American patent law.
@Taijitu Android fully supports multitouch(try using Dolphin Browser on either the Nexus One or the Droid for an example of this, or the browser on the Droid Eris). So that kinda shoots a hole in that theory. The only thing it's left out of is the default Google apps installed on the phone, and even there a subtle version of it is there in the keyboard on the Nexus One.
@Taijitu That's because you can't patent software in Europe. O
@Taijitu Assuming the Canadian model has multitouch, I'm excited to pick one up when it arrives here.
@Taijitu
That does not sound rigth there are many devices that use this tech in the US. I have a windows 7 machine that does just that. I think there migth be another reason. I don't really care as long as they just disable it and I can just hack it back on.
@tosvus
Im doing multi touch on my nexus one with the dolphin browser. problem solved.
@Taijitu
That does seem odd that it isn't mentioned. The patent looks valid though, I've seen worse ones.
@Jonathan K
and palm got there asses sued didn't they?
@Taijitu: Ditto, was the first thing which came to mind. Engadget is going a little senile in it's old age. ;p
@Taijitu
I'm also wondering why US patents aren't recognized in the EU and vice-versa. Shouldn't that be a big part of any free trade agreement? I guess not. I'll bet Apple's patent application was denied.
@Tobster The reason other companies support multitouch is because Apple is likely violating some of their patents too. Either Google isn't a patent troll (which seems likely) or they simply respect the law.
@MarcusMaximus - I'm very well aware that android supports it, since I'm the owner of a HTC Hero bought here in Denmark :-). The standard HTC browser also has multitouch in EU.
@JakeMG - Yeah... I'm aware. I just kinda thought of it as a hardware patent when i wrote the post xD.
Regarding Palm Pre's multitouch, there was a load of media buzz around January 28-30th last year regarding Palm breaking the Apple Patent, but I have in my 10 minutes of searching not found any follow up articles about lawsuits or the alike.
@Taijitu
Yup, and that's why so many devices exclude the functionality. I mean look at the Pre, Pixi, Zune HD, HTC Hero (US)/Droid Eris, Asus Eee, etc. None of them have implemented pinch zoom gestures via multitouch because clearly Apple is working so hard to keep them from doing so......... wait...
If companies such as Palm, Microsoft, HTC, and Asus aren't afraid of Apple (since Apple has done very, very little to enforce this patent), why should Google worry? Fact is Apple doesn't technically even own the patent itself, only the company to whom the patent belongs, Fingerworks.
@Taijitu
Thank you for bringing sanity to this site ("astonished" is right). That's been the obvious reason, and it's bizarre that Engadget continues to be surprised each time this comes up.
@tosvus
I wish they would have popped UMA on this one too
@tosvus how on earth can anyone patent multi-touch? It's such an obvious thing to do with a touchable-screen...
@Taijitu It has absolutely nothing to do with Apple's supposed multi-touch patents, if those things went to court they wouldn't hold as the idea and implementation aren't new.
Google is very obviously not competing with Apple, as opposed to what you might think.
Instead of offering the N1 on ATT and have it compete against the iPhone, they launched it for all other carriers that matter (yeah!), otherwise iPhone sales might drop (however slight, a drop in sales is still a drop). Without a Google phone alternative, every "smartphone" user for ATT will pick the iPhone instead.
Multi-touch is Google's way of keeping android the perceived inferior of the platforms.
Why would Google go so out of their way for this? Conflicts of interest. It's been hinted at (and sometimes demonstrated publicly) that there's an under-the-table relationship between Apple and Google. They both have a common competitor, MS, and there was the issue where share-holders and board-members owned stock and held positions at both companies. If both companies are perceived as competing in the market, then their shares jump everytime one company makes a public move that seems aimed at trumping the other. In reality, corporate pockets are getting bigger and US android costumers (not counting rooted devices here since the number of those is so insignificant) are getting shafted for it. Once android trumps OSX on the media's eyes, then Google's shares will soar (even more) and maybe then you'll get multitouch.
Palm knows it, but they're not partnered up with anybody, they also know Apple has no bite to their multi-touch bark, and they needed a device that seemed to defy Apple to generate media buzz and hopefully get free advertisement for the product that was going to pull them out of the hole... last I saw they were still sinking.
@tosvus
I just bought this from England. I suppose that means that I'm gonna get the multi-touch free US model. Is there not anyway I will be able to update it to include multi-touch when the UK version comes out?
Don't worry just like the hacker who got mutitouch off the Milestone onto the Droid the XDA guys within a matter of days if not hours will get on the American Nexus One.
@Xcelerate
Really? So obvious that it took 10 years of touch devices (estimating, who knows really how long it's been from the stylus days)? Take it up with the patent office if you don't like it.
@Jubeh
Please explain how HTC can get by adding MT.
Please explain why EU gets multitouch.
Your conspiracy theory while interesting doesnt hold water when Android clearly has MT enabled.
@Taijitu
I guess that's why Palm has it on the Pre for sale in the US.
@Taijitu FYI, The Verizon HTC Eris has Multi-Touch also
@Taijitu This is correct, it's a patent issue. And why didn't Engadget mention that that is the reason it can't be offered on an OEM U. S. handset?
It's the same reason why the iPhone is sold by other carriers in Europe and ATT's exclusivity does not apply over there. In fact, some European countries prohibit exclusive phone deals like carriers in the U. S. enjoy. (I think it has something to do with exclusivity defeats laws related to anti-trust, number portability and protectionism).
Seems that any Engadget author specifically talking about multi-touch would mention this is the reason why in the U. S. we won't see MT from an OEM/Carrier, but lucky we can get the feature from XDA. LOL.
Sidenote: I find it hard to believe that
@tosvus
This makes me fucking HATE Apple, even though I love my iPhone!
@Jubeh
What a dunce, I guess that's why Google just announced webOS devices and Android devices.
So if Google is touting this phone as being sold "unlocked" why couldn't we just buy the Vodafone version that has multi touch enabled and use it in the US on the GSM carrier of our choice?
@tosvus
XDA Developers
Just wait, you'll have multitouch as soon as it comes out in Europe and the ROM gets dumped.
@Esquire0399 Don't forget that Eric Schmidt was on the Apple board, maybe he knows something the others don't. Perhaps Apple has every intention to sue and are just building up their case. Apple might just be waiting to deal with Nokia first before they think about the rest i.e. Palm, Asus, Microsoft and HTC.
@Taijitu That patent is owned by Tyco Electronics.
@Taijitu my Sprint Hero has multi-touch in its browser by default...
@pukerocket
He wasn't blaming the "device" he's blaming Apple: the company/manufacturer that made the iPhone. (read more careful kid)
@(Unverified) Uh, oh I think someone has taken the blue pill!
@Esquire0399 Droid Eris actually does have multi-touch.. which is why I don't know why everyone is having this discussion. HTC said it during the Nexus launch. It's capable, now it's a software issue. If Eris has it, this definitely will.
@JCerna That's because Apple doesn't have a patent on using multitouch gestures on desktop machines, only their phones.
Thats not quite the end of it. Any app with a map in it could use pinch to zoom. I'm baffled by how few third party apparently that have pinch zoom support.
@Taijitu Except those probably 5 other times it's been already guessed/established
@Taijitu so how the Pre has multitouch?
@Taijitu
if you do a little research, you'll see that Apple has rights to the phrase "multi-touch" and does not have a patent for the implementation of multi-touch. If you don't believe me, look at Web OS and HTC's Sense UI (their skin of Android that includes multi-touch) for starters.
why Google constantly leaves out multi-touch (mind you, I don't give a damn for pinch zooming, I would like it for things such as the virtual keyboard) is a mystery to everybody
@Taijitu Dey tuk errr multitouch!!!
The Apple Effect!!!
@samjjordan Multitouch in Canada! We finally have something better than America. Just kidding, we have a lot of better things... Like untanned women.
@Jubeh I agree, it explains why google execs always get squirmy when multitouch comes up (if it was a simple patent issue they would have stated as much), and it also explains why google has left out a best-in-class music player from android. Certainly there are conflicts of interest since Google CEO (Eric Schmidt) was on Apple's board until last year.
As a developer and user, I find it irritating that android's development has been stifled to accommodate such back room dealings. Who knows what other technology google is leaving out of android?
@Tobster No, they didnt.
@hondamx525
That's great that you can do multi-touch in Dolphin, but what about maps? Navigation? Photos? It's all about consistency.