MS developer talks tech, Natal 'correctly positions your hand even if it's held behind your back'
By Tim Stevens 
posted January 8th 2010 10:39AM
posted January 8th 2010 10:39AM
We now know that Natal is going to make it out before the end of the year (if all goes well), but the company is still keeping a lot of secrets about the technology and being rather stingy with hands-on time. Natal lead developer Alex Kipman is spilling a few notable beans, however, indicating that the team has gathered terabytes of photos and video of people playing games, amassing a library of data that the system uses to anticipate where you might move next. Because of this the system can predict your hand position, even if it's obscured, based on the location of other parts of your body. He also indicated that the software required for all this will only take up about 50MB on your Xbox's (probably near-full) storage device, and that the algorithms it uses will suck down about 10 to 15 percent of the 360's overall processing power. That's certainly a substantial hit, but this is the price you pay for getting to kick virtual balls with physical feet.
@destardi
I have a pretty clear understanding of a logical argument inductive reasoning and Hume and even thought I have not contradicted myself I will stop posting because this is obviously not going anywhere, and I honestly don't care if you agree. We will see in December.
@glamajamma
I'm with you on this. I think the underlying technology will be great, and some cool research will come out of it, but I really doubt the final product will be anything more than a gimmick that can only work in the most ideal environment. It will fail, and we will both laugh at these other commenters.
i met the guy in the picture when he was still with EA. he is full of himself and a bit of a jerk too. must be why everyone keeps firing him.
@shryx86, I thought the same too .. Never met him personally but seeing him makes me *cringe* .. He has a bad aura surrounding him .. Kinda like the weird feeling you get when you meet an unknown sex offender or a suspected criminal ..
@shryx86 anyone who wears sunglasses indoors and almost-too-small kid robot stuff (which usually runs big, so you know he picked the smaller size on purpose) is usually an asshole.
@shryx86
Did he get fired by EA? I thought the whole Chicago studio closed down. Is that "everyone"?
This reminds me of the Gun Katas from Equilibrium...those who watched, know exactly which sequence I am referring to :)
@ascenvia
awesome
I wish they wouldn't have gone with a software solution but instead kept the hardware solution. I think this thing will be very laggy because of this. If they wanted to release it at a certain price point they should have found a way to make the chip solution less expensive, its not like console companies make money off hardware anyways.
Kipman means chicken man in Dutch.
anyone else feel like a idiot dancing in-front of their TV?
Regardless, if friends are over or not, if its Wednesday night or a Saturday afternoon...controller in 1 hand, beer in the other, laid back on a comfy couch...thats the way you should game (i hold the beer in my right hand and dent the can in so i hold the can and still operate the action buttons).
Can I get an AMEN?
there are many videos on you tube of people playing NATAL without any jump suit on! members of the press and others! other people say they do not want to jump around while playing games so that is why NATAL will suck but the narrow minds can’t grasp that I could be sitting down playing with the regular controller and maybe only when I want to say for example throw an item in game I move my hand in a throwing motion or maybe im playing a stealth FPS and the character in the game reacts to my facial expression as I move through the crowd of in game characters. just a few examples of what could be done. Developers are very creative people in most cases. I will wait and see what they can come up with before I condemn this new technology!
@packnut
Please link to one video where the background has not been sanitized or the user has not been required to wear distinctive clothing.
@glamajamma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1kmguNEOMw&feature=related
Demo from E3.
Yeah I know, she's wearing jeans and a non-human like grey shirt. Totally staged.
And if you are still so concerned about the background thing, the likely solution they will come up with is that it will merely tell you to step out of the way for a moment, while it takes an image of the room behind you. It will then use that as a static reference point.
@LAY
There is also nothing in the background. And what happens if my cat walks in the room. What if my girlfriend walks in and sits down?
You do realize MS is sanitizing the backgrounds or wearing jumpsuits for a reason correct? They are having problems recognizing people separated from their environment. Even in their own "living room" they have to install a temporary white paper backdrop so the tech will work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv386PsfGaA
@glamajamma
Jump suits were like 6 months ago! And the camera system they have now works OK, and as he said, just takes a picture of the background and differentiates you from it. Considering it will have a camera AND infared sensor, AND still has 6-10 months of development before it is released, I think it will be fine.
Oh ye of little faith... I am looking forward to motion interaction with a game without a 'mote, or a weird "wand" with a glowing ball. I don't really wanna look like Harry Potter casting spells when I am gaming...
If they can pull it off it should be fun, although I'm not sure what kind of games will come from it. Kicking/smacking balls will be fun for a little while. Driving a car with this thing may be more awkward then fun, though I don't know as I've never been able to try it. Still, I can imagine that some unique and fun applications of this tech will come from the more creative developers out there. It's just a matter of time. The main concern is if they can really make it work in anybody's living room. Eye Toy doesn't work at all in mine. I'm sure this will be better then that, but the question is how much better. Hopefully a lot.
Sorry for the double–post, but want to say that packnut has the right idea there - it doesn't have to be the primary control scheme. However, it will be limited in concert with the standard controller, as that controller is designed for two hands. If you are letting go of it with a hand you aren't able to use it at the same time, say, to throw a football while on the run. A Wii nunchuck like controller, or something of that sort, would be better. Nothing says they can't also release something like that, though they certainly haven't shown anything of the sort.
no special cloths http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-443dE5-gk and the room being white will not matter as the camera uses infrared sensors which do not reply on a certain lighting conditions. also there are several people standing right behind him as he is playing.
@packnut So they wore yellow jumpsuits on Fallon show because they thought they were in a rap video, eh?
Sing with me:
I don't know what, they want from me
It's like the more Natal we come across
The more problems we see..
I don't know what, they want from me
It's like the more Natal we come across
The more problems we see
Uhh, uhhh
@Laughton
The jumpsuits were bright orange - you don't see any better than you rap - but the larger question is -if the jumpsuits are necessary, why didn't they wear them at e3 or ask any of the bloggers who tried it to wear them?
this one I just like seeing Felicia Day jump around http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYuJivFFa-c
@packnut
thx for that link.
tasty!!!
But can it guess how many fingers I am holding up (when it's behind my back)?
There are at least 3 to 4 people behind him while he is playing and they are not standing still! also there is a video out there somewhere where he addresses your exact question with the cat walking or even a person walking right in front of you while you are playing and it still keeps track of the person playing the game it has to do with the predictive algorithms. Also it can track more than one person at a time even if their limbs cross over each other they have a video showing the wire frame output that the camera seems when more than one person is being tracked at a time I will try and find it it might be from an interview with Lionhead developers
Ugh, another device where we have to wear stupid giant glasses? Forget it!
oh no, not this dbag again
Talk about MAJOR FAIL with this brainchild! Remember N64? Yeah, 93mhz was crazy fast and Nintendo decided that they'd just have software do all the work. Sound card? video card?? Hell, we have 93mhz!!!! Just write software for it and have the processor do all the work!
And we all know how that worked out.
Software based upgrades is the duck tape of innovation.
Can it see me roll my eyes while everyone complains about what may be or what could happen?
Maybe the dang thing comes with those sweet jumpsuits and a large white background. Your not hardcore if you are not redecorating your gaming space for this.
he looks like a total douche
"...the team has gathered terabytes of photos and video of people playing games..."
is that what those Xbox 360 web cams are really doing?
"I once ate a sandwich that was this big."
He forgot to put on his phubby.
Funny that I didn't notice that before.
I like his shirt. Anyone knows where it's from?
@UrAwFuL
I think that was asked and answered in the original natal post way back when where this shot is from, long ago but engadget keeps records.
hmmm i wonder!!! i remember about 5 months back there was people putting two and two together predicting such features and there was reports of jobs ,ms gather recruiting disabled people,with missing limbs(not paraliysed or blind),in order to test a unknown feature ,i wonder if this obscured prediction system what i maybe ?
I hope they put this dude's lame sun glasses on the avatar marketplace.
looks like a broke-ass judah friedlander
will project natal trickle down to winmo 7?