Yeah, companies should give devices to people for cheap when they scam the system. Oh wait, no. The high ETF may not be the best solution, but they can't keep bleeding money to the people that try to rip them off. That's not a very sustainable business model. If you just want loads of stuff for free, you'll have to vote socialist and hope you are dead by the time the nation spends itself into collapse.
No, most people are definitely not scamming the system. This is a case of the same old story that repeats itself over and over again: a few people cheat the system, and everyone else has to pay for it.
@Abe So if only a "Few" people are doing it, then it really shouldn't have that much impact then! Wake up, these companies are greedy as fuck, they will use every and any excuse in the book to punish us all.
Hmm, yes, it doesn't have that much of an effect until the few spreads into the many, "Hey guys, I can get a new Droid for $275!!" And then everyone else is doing it, and then it IS a problem. Wake up, if companies didn't look out for their own interests, they would get crushed, and then there goes consumer choice because no one is interested in starting a business that will just fail.
@Abe "Wake up, if companies didn't look out for their own interests, they would get crushed, and then there goes consumer choice because no one is interested in starting a business that will just fail."
Wrong. If companies don't look out for their own interests, Uncle Sam steps up and gives them billions in free cash/interest free loans. Get with the times, duh.
Good thing the bill of goods on the droid is only $170 or they'd be losing money.... but wait - isn't that what the ETF is supposed to cover? Sounds like the appropriate ETF is -$150
If a profit could really be made by selling Droids for $170, or even $300, someone would already be doing it, because they would sure get all the business, and companies like getting all the business. The fact that no one is doing it should tell you something about your ideas for a cheap Droid: it isn't worth it for anyone to do it, or else they would be doing it.
And I'd guess entering the real world where companies are so good at protecting themselves from their customers that the government has to step in, could do you a world of good.
I don't really mind that you are calling me names, but I would like to clarify that I'm making the exact point that you are making. Companies exist for profit. If someone is not offering the deal you think they should on phones or phone service, that's because it is not sufficiently profitable for them. There is really nothing evil about this. If you want to create a non-profit telecom company, by all means, do it. I would like to use your cheap service until your business goes bankrupt.
I find this slightly ironic. I'm saying that Verizon or any other company should have the right to charge whatever they want, that's the world of business- if you don't like it, grow some balls, do some hard work, create your own company and do it differently. And you are saying that the government should step in and hold our hands to protect us from all the evil businesses (because, surely, all companies are pure evil). And yet somehow, I'M the one on the teat? I've had some logic courses, but they must have been insufficient, because I can't understand the logic in your assertions. Please, enlighten me.
@Abe As a tried and true capitalist, I fully agree with you. If a company can't make money and profit off of their products and services, why does it exist?
However, I think everyone's beef with Verizon is that other carriers (specifically T-mobile, based on several responses) *don't* charge the outrageous ETF fee and *aren't* planning on getting rid of flat-rate data charges. It makes Verizon look "greedy", and unless they can directly convince their customers that the money they're gaining from these increased fees is being put to good use, they're gonna pay for it dearly.
Here is the issue though, these systems are built around everyone following certain rules, so for everyone that scams the system, they are directly cutting into profits. Not to mention, those that scam the system tend to do it by a large degree.
Look at bandwidth usage. Consistantly, studies show that less than 10% of a given companies users consume over 60% of the data.
Or look at theft at a grocery store. You think only 1-2% of people are just stealing an apple? no, they are taking hundreds of dollars of merch a month.
And with technology, when someone finds a workaround, they tend to publish it, meaning that a larger percentage of people will adopt it. People seem to have no qualms about stealing from a tech company, even if they would never consider stealing from the store down the street.
The phone has 256MB of RAM and a 1GHz processor, which do the job reasonably well, though the Anna interface will likely leave something to be desired for many smartphone users.
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Yeah, this is complete bullshit.
This + that 350$ ETF for an "Advanced device" makes them top dawg among the ubergreedy.
@(Unverified)
Yeah, companies should give devices to people for cheap when they scam the system. Oh wait, no. The high ETF may not be the best solution, but they can't keep bleeding money to the people that try to rip them off. That's not a very sustainable business model. If you just want loads of stuff for free, you'll have to vote socialist and hope you are dead by the time the nation spends itself into collapse.
@Abe
Yeah since everyone is "Scamming the system" -- damn scammers!!!
@(Unverified)
No, most people are definitely not scamming the system. This is a case of the same old story that repeats itself over and over again: a few people cheat the system, and everyone else has to pay for it.
@Abe
So if only a "Few" people are doing it, then it really shouldn't have that much impact then! Wake up, these companies are greedy as fuck, they will use every and any excuse in the book to punish us all.
@Abe ...go cash your verizon check.
@(Unverified)
Hmm, yes, it doesn't have that much of an effect until the few spreads into the many, "Hey guys, I can get a new Droid for $275!!" And then everyone else is doing it, and then it IS a problem. Wake up, if companies didn't look out for their own interests, they would get crushed, and then there goes consumer choice because no one is interested in starting a business that will just fail.
@h666
Also, I should mention, I don't use Verizon because it's too expensive for me. And yet, I realize that Verizon doesn't owe me cheap phone service.
@Abe
After your last two posts, I can't help but think of the great Mark Twain.
“It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.”
@jon
Me thinks some economics and hard work would cure your outlook on life, jon. Someday, you will realize that the world owes you nothing.
@Abe "Wake up, if companies didn't look out for their own interests, they would get crushed, and then there goes consumer choice because no one is interested in starting a business that will just fail."
Wrong. If companies don't look out for their own interests, Uncle Sam steps up and gives them billions in free cash/interest free loans. Get with the times, duh.
@Abe
Good thing the bill of goods on the droid is only $170 or they'd be losing money.... but wait - isn't that what the ETF is supposed to cover? Sounds like the appropriate ETF is -$150
@PerryAJ
I had to laugh. You got me there. Sadly, Ayn Rand will probably be proven right.
@JSM
If a profit could really be made by selling Droids for $170, or even $300, someone would already be doing it, because they would sure get all the business, and companies like getting all the business. The fact that no one is doing it should tell you something about your ideas for a cheap Droid: it isn't worth it for anyone to do it, or else they would be doing it.
@Abe
And I'd guess entering the real world where companies are so good at protecting themselves from their customers that the government has to step in, could do you a world of good.
But that would require leaving daddy's teat.
@ivwshane
I don't really mind that you are calling me names, but I would like to clarify that I'm making the exact point that you are making. Companies exist for profit. If someone is not offering the deal you think they should on phones or phone service, that's because it is not sufficiently profitable for them. There is really nothing evil about this. If you want to create a non-profit telecom company, by all means, do it. I would like to use your cheap service until your business goes bankrupt.
@jon
I find this slightly ironic. I'm saying that Verizon or any other company should have the right to charge whatever they want, that's the world of business- if you don't like it, grow some balls, do some hard work, create your own company and do it differently. And you are saying that the government should step in and hold our hands to protect us from all the evil businesses (because, surely, all companies are pure evil). And yet somehow, I'M the one on the teat? I've had some logic courses, but they must have been insufficient, because I can't understand the logic in your assertions. Please, enlighten me.
@ivwshane
I apologize, I see that you weren't talking to me. Still, you could afford to be more pleasant to others. No reason for name-calling here.
@surgex
Your argument is irrefutable. :)
@Abe As a tried and true capitalist, I fully agree with you. If a company can't make money and profit off of their products and services, why does it exist?
However, I think everyone's beef with Verizon is that other carriers (specifically T-mobile, based on several responses) *don't* charge the outrageous ETF fee and *aren't* planning on getting rid of flat-rate data charges. It makes Verizon look "greedy", and unless they can directly convince their customers that the money they're gaining from these increased fees is being put to good use, they're gonna pay for it dearly.
@(Unverified)
Here is the issue though, these systems are built around everyone following certain rules, so for everyone that scams the system, they are directly cutting into profits. Not to mention, those that scam the system tend to do it by a large degree.
Look at bandwidth usage. Consistantly, studies show that less than 10% of a given companies users consume over 60% of the data.
Or look at theft at a grocery store. You think only 1-2% of people are just stealing an apple? no, they are taking hundreds of dollars of merch a month.
And with technology, when someone finds a workaround, they tend to publish it, meaning that a larger percentage of people will adopt it. People seem to have no qualms about stealing from a tech company, even if they would never consider stealing from the store down the street.