Ableton and Serato -- two of the biggest names in live music production -- have been working in stealth mode over the past year to create what they've been billing as "the future of digital DJing," and today that new product has been revealed as The Bridge. Basically, you've got a thin layer of software that sits between full versions of both Serato Live (or Itch) and Ableton Live that allows output from both products to flow into the other -- DJ sets can be imported into Ableton with full control over effect parameters, tempo, pitch, and so on, and Ableton instruments can sit inside a Serato session. It's an interesting advancement, and the way the companies are talking, this is just the first in a string of products of the partnership; the good news is that The Bridge will be free to owners of both products, but unfortunately there's no release date yet, so raves are going to have to soldier on using last year's technology for at least a while longer. Hang tight, we're told it's "coming soon."
posted January 14th 2010 2:05PM
Now I can finally DJ for real! ...maybe not.
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2010/01/14/ableton-serato-the-bridge-fuses-dj-sets-live-sets-full-details/
Slightly lame. First it lets you go back and edit serato performances in ableton. No one uses a live performance for an actual cd release, so really this is just for some joe schmoe to take a performance and tweak it up a bit so they can listen to it. No pro is going to try to do a whole cd in serato and then tweak it in ableton when they can just do the full production in ableton.
Then just controlling ableton transport from within serato? I guess that lets you scratch some clips or whatever but full rewire support would have been the holy grail. Passing midi and audio back and forth between the 2 apps. But I guess serato has to keep it proprietary so they can keep their hardware lockin, if full rewire was supported any app could have used it.
@ezelkow1 I'm not sure you're living in the real world? People don't use live performances for CD releases? Uh... no, that's not really true. I know lots of DJs who record live and then tweak after the fact (in traktor, for example) to get it perfect before releasing the live mix online. This also helps with issues that are not as apparent on the spot (playing at 1am after a few brews'll definitely get you a bit inaccurate on the gain faders and it's much easier to fix it in the source material than it is to automate, plus it sounds better than fixing it with compression.)
Second, there are totally pure SSL Djs and totally pure Live DJs that I've seen, but the one class I've seen not quite catered to is the sort of people that are running a DVS while also running ableton at the same time. Richie Hawtin does this by my understanding and while I'm not sure of any other pros that big into it I've seen this sorta set up often on the road. This is geared to that sort of DJ. That's it. Full rewire support wouldn't do shit 'cause what is SSL going to do with MIDI data, and how is SSL going to generate midi data? That's not the nature of the software. Most DJs who play a combination of DVS and live are already used to using live's transport and pitch controls to get sync so even if they simply automate the process of syncing up your session view to Serato's beat counter or whatever, this is significant.
I've switched to almost pure ableton because I really, really like layering tracks, throwing in instruments, etc. but I totally feel that ableton's current options of getting in sync with traditional style DVS are a little bit clunky and wind up with me having to do lots of unnecessary tweaking and essentially babysitting a third deck all night, which is why I don't do it. If this is going to make sure that ableton's completely quantized against my set I'm playing in SSL, this is amazing.
@protocollie I was talking about actual releases to purchase in a store, not some mix that ends up online for people to listen to.
As far as midi in ssl, there is plenty that could be done. Turning on/off the new serato effects as well as eq's, and most importantly fader and vinyl control. Since serato does now record fader movements, as is seen in the files that can now be imported into ableton, this could just be midi data, which means that this could have been automated in ableton and passed back to ssl over rewire. So you could basically draw out a whole scratch pattern as a midi track and drop it onto the rewired midi/audio track from ssl and send the 'midi scratch' back to ssl and have it be performed. This is just one example of how rewire could have been used.
And then of course you could use any of the ableton devices on the incoming audio from ssl for all sorts of setups with looper and beat repeat and anything else you can think of.
ezelkow1 Ok, actually, I see what you're getting at here, I misunderstood what it meant by transport control... still... how are you not impressed?
if you're a producer and you produce in ableton live, this means you can play a set on traditional vinyl, mix in a track that you have produced on the fly and -then- perform that track like a live PA, re-arrange it, and otherwise have the same level of control as someone doing a non-DJ performance, all while still maintaining sync via turntables with the non-ableton tracks you're dropping.
that's even better than what i thought. your ableton live sets are treated like tracks that can be tweaked and modified as they're playing out, instruments added and removed, etc... and while you're doing all this you can continue to sync it up with actual vinyl control. how is this not awesome?
@ezelkow1 Why on earth would you record a scratch in advance and then want to play it back in real time using CPU cycles to warp the audio?
I can't think of any situation in which people would want to do what you're describing. The whole reason someone uses SSL is because they want to step into the digital world without losing the physical control of vinyl, what you're saying effectively nixes the need to have turntables or physical hardware in the picture at all.
you need to consider who uses this shit
@protocollie I understand there are purists out there, nothing against that, and Im also not against the colaboration, Im just saying it would seem to me to have made more sense to basically use serato as a rewire slave than the other way around. That way you have full control in ableton of clip launching and layering while still being able to bring in the audio from serato on an audio track and keep it all in sync there. Randomly porting part of the ableton interface into serato seems a bit clugey. However I think this is more targeted at users of only serato than those who only use ableton at the moment, so keeping the interface within serato may keep a certain level of comfort.
@ezelkow1 Again I'm not sure you're really looking at it the right way, I'm not referring to purists, I'm referring to the purpose of the software.
SSL is not designed for any degree of pre-planning. A traditional vinyl DJ (and most other DJs as well) show up on the spot with a bag of records and a general idea of what they want to play, and figure it out on stage. There's very little programming beforehand (if any.) It's a gut thing. SSL is there 100% to be used as an instrument - it's a live tool that does nothing except react to what you are telling it to do RIGHT NOW and that's its entire point.
The point of this release is not to make SSL more scriptable, which would be silly - from the point of sitting down and clicking and dragging with your mouse, SSL offers absolutely nothing that ableton doesn't (aside from vinyl control) which is pretty silly when you think about it because the whole point of SSL is to bring back that analogue lack of predictability into digital DJing. That's it. The point of this release is to integrate an entirely new class of DJing into an old methodology, which is the traditional sort of pitch-fadering, finger-dragging, gruv-glide abusing vinyl DJing. If you're playing on vinyl, you'd need to have absurdly good timing and absolutely no free will to actually stick with fader or EQ presets you set up in ableton. Essentially, you'd be playing a scripted set and going through the motions. it'd be pointless. That's not what this is about. SSL's knobs are meant to be tweaked in real time to sync up with the wow and flutter of turntables.
With ableton live being the #1 production environment for dance music PERIOD, the one thing they really COULD do would be a way to play your tracks produced in ableton off of a vinyl record while not losing the intimate control that you get from playing it straight out of ableton. When you see DJs doing live PAs they're playing a set back and forth (or just on the same ableton machine) wherein they're going through a scripted series of events, but tweaking parameters like release on synths and reverb and filters to change up the song, sometimes changing the arrangement and on occasion even playing along live. The problem is that if you're playing a mostly vinyl set or prefer vinyl DJing, you 100% lose that intimacy you get from playing on records. This allows you to bring in that track on vinyl an then have all that granular control over every instrument and effect in it like it never left ableton, and then continue to match it out to the next track mixing on vinyl traditionally, all the while tweaking the filtering on your lead and changing the bassline and kick around.
That's awesome. I can't see why you'd complain.
@ezelkow1
I got to say you're a bit wrong... This is actually REALLY good news for Turntablist.
@Julian Garcia Oh I agree that its good for turntablists. Thats why to me it looks like it was definitely more orientated towards bringing users of serato some live functionality in their program instead of the other way around, hence bringing part of the live interface into serato for the turntable users. Being able to trigger clips in serato to whatever tempo a deck is on is good.
Just doesnt seem to offer much to those who are strictly ableton at this point.
I thought it was going to be a reference to the '87 song called "the bridge is over" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-alEhlHSzk
There was already a trimmed down version of this. You could use Torq (a Serato alternatives) master tempo to sync with Albeton. Okay you couldn't record and later edit but you could sync Ableton samples and effects with your mix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjfg-2ENCx4
This is insane. As a dj that owns both programs I couldn't be happier.
so just tell me
can i use ableton as base, djing with that, hitting triggers of clips, bringing in songs that i have processed through ableton etc...and then when the urge hits, mix in a track using serato?
thats what I want to know.
@dc1000 it looks like you really have to use serato as a base for live usage. You can save a live set that has tracks and stuff and play them back in serato, but you cant go the other way. It looks like serato->ableton only works through the saving of a set in serato, dropping in ableton, and then editing it. Waiting on some more demo vids to see.
@glamajamma Have better taste than you.
I don't know if I should be excited or not...
I leave for Beijing in 6 months and then I'm going to college, but I don't know if I should jump into this right now...
I am selling my drumset soon and want to start producing DnB, Jungle, Atmospheric, Ambient, Dubstep, and various things like that. I just really got lost after I figured out that I can't own two SL1200's to mix and can't use any major gear.
So I guess digital it is, but Ableton? Gah, I'm a geeknerd but I completely got lost on this since I don't have enough time or resources to research into this... If only I knew someone who used software and controllers to produce music.
@Philip Han Yo.
As a guy who dj's, produces mash-ups and remixes for a living this is the best tool ever. I DJ Bootie (it's an all mash-up club) and if I could use ableton WITH Serato now this is game changing.
Imagine being able to re-remix a mash-up on the spot. sawpping out you well known track for an updated version, or dropping to the acapella when you want. But being able to scratch it and tweak it live. WHILE mixing other tunes? AND video????
This is what i've needed to push past the live remix mark.
I tried DJing with Ableton a few times. It felt like cheating. I could set up a set weeks beforehand and hit play. Whoop-dee-doo. But with it's integration as a track to actually spin AND edit live is amazing.
I plan on making the most of this pairing for quite some time.
On an entirely different note, I've noticed that engadget has been covering a fair amount of dj related stuff in the past few weeks, which I think is pretty impressive, not really what most tech sites see as in their remit. I guess it has to be something to do with various members of the editorial team being dj's or ex dj's? hmm, in any case, keep it up.
@protocollie
This has something to do with middle class suburbanites wanting to be "urban" doesn't it.
I like my samples and loops, but I also like my Dj software, now i know what to spend my christmas money on :P
And I bet Robert Plant STILL won't be able to find that confounded bridge.
If you guys are looking for that kind of functionality right now, I believe this is the kind of advantage you can get by using the Deckadance VST plugin in FLStudio. Personally I like Deckadance so much I just use it standalone. Anyone care to confirm/deny?
@tehYama Deckadance: "Of course, if you suck as a DJ, you will still suck using Deckadance, but you will suck better, faster, harder and more creatively than ever before!" te.
@glamajamma If you listen to contemporary music at all, you might be surprised just how many of those same artists and their production people make use of such software and techniques both live and in studio. I present you with a hearty "You're welcome" on their behalf.
On the other hand, if, as I suspect, you're most comfortable listening to some David Lee Roth on cassette, none of this has any bearing on you and you're welcome to your ignorance and hostility.
Alright guys.
Personally, I route all of my audio into ableton, use either the Deckadance VST or MS. Pinky VST. All of your timecoded needs/wants solved. Blows serato out the water.
Also, since Maxforlive is now out, Ms Pinky is especially useful.
Just fyi, kids.
That, in combination with my novation launchpad/nonome/mlr. I mean, seriously.
@djselektro My thoughts exactly. Saw the same sentiment on ableton boards as well. Basically this is nothing new and doesnt even function as well as what is out there. Made to just cater to the serato users since if your more on the ableton side of things your already doing all this and more with something else.
This is the $hIt.! Two things, 1. it's free if you own live and serato. 2. this is only part one the Ableton-Serato partnership. With ableton, you get an A/B software cross fader that any track can be assigned to.I just thought they were going to allow you to use their interfaces within ableton allowing you add that real world feel. I think this release is geared more towards The DJ/producer then the producer/DJ. well, guess we'll have to wait to see what part 2 is about, but i bet it's using seratos interfaces with-in abletons environment.