We told you Panny had some
crazy low black levels in its 2010 plasmas, didn't we? Well, say hello to the retail products and their first price tags, both predictably found in Japan. The Viera G2 series is arriving within a few short weeks -- February 5 to be precise -- and will be headed by the 50-inch TH-P50G2, which is joined by 46- and 42-inch options. All panels boast Full HD resolution, have three ports each for HDMI and Composite cables, and are expected to cost ¥320,000, ¥260,000, and ¥220,000, respectively. That roughly equates to $3,500 for the whopper and $2,400 for the smallest family members, which when you think about that mercurial five million to one contrast ratio sounds almost like
a bargain. If you can tolerate a
measly 2,000,000:1 contrast, Panasonic is also announcing some more affordable S2 panels (pictured after the break), which you can have for as little as $2,100 in US money for the 42-inch variety. More machine translation-mangled information can be found in the links below.
posted January 18th 2010 4:01AM
lol... that's gotta be a translation error.
@Amnesia87
"200:1 contrast ratio" better be an error, otherwise that's a gargantuan leap backwards.
@Amnesia87 No sir. Check out the first backlink in the post, they were showing 5M:1 panels at CES.
@Gad Get You're right, the S2 panels will have 2M:1. I've updated the post and 86'd the machine responsible for the failed translation.
@Gad Get
LOL! Now it says "200,000,000:1"
@Vlad Savov
OK, you fixed it.
You're welcome. ;)
@Vlad Savov Yeah I was talking about the 200:1 part, I even clicked the link to the translation and it said 200:1, that's what seemed wrong to me.
lol@ the dynamic contrast. Must be using that alien Pioneer tech. The darks will be so black that the tv will accuse you of racism lol. I like plasmas are back with a bang thou. Lower the price thou, this is still a recession. Come on Panny, lets not go the Sony route.
@oww ming lol . I too love plasmas but not the expensive ones
@oww ming
Ditto. I know lots of people love their LCD TVs, but I still prefer plasma for the inky blacks and more "movie-like" image.
no 3D?
meh
@john
The V-series Panasoinc Plasmas will be 3D capable, and were said by many to be the best 3D set shown at CES '10.
CNET also awarded the Panasonic V25 their best in show award.
@john Check out the VT25 series for 2010.
Surely not 3 composite inputs, but rather component.
@danielsloan Agreed!
More BS "contrast ratio" hype. Did they do anything about plasma's piss-poor reproduction of anything darker than a midtone? The Pioneers made some strides in that area.
How about the blunder of the non-adjustable overscan on some Panasonic plasmas?
@Information Central
I'm totally unaware of such an issue. I have a Panny plasma myself - no overscan whatsoever (even checked with a calibration DVD).
Are you really going to hold a one-time occurrence against a company that produces completely competent (if not great) plasma TVs?
Not sure it was a "one-time" issue. From http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-864095.html
"Overscan is not adjustable in the PX60 or PX50 service menu, i wonder if it's adjustable in the new models?"
Anyway, the answer is yes, I will hold it against them. There shouldn't be any overscan to begin with in digital modes, and now we're stuck with it. It completely blows for people trying to use these TVs with computers.
@Information Central
I'm running a V10 50 inch in conjunction with a Windows 7 MC PC (9600gt Nvidia Gfx via HDMI through Denon AVR-2808 to TV) and don't have any overscan problems. For once, you can simply adjust the HDTV desktop size in the nvidia driver settings, which will work just fine. But that was unnecessary for my setup, the image had the right size from the beginning.
Also, do you really want to say, that the black reproduction on a plasma panel is bad? I think you should look up some basics on the technology. Black is black because the pixel doesn't emit light in a plasma panel when turned off, while the background lighting with LCD is on all the time (and the new LED backlit ones have far less local dimmable LEDs in a given area that there are pixels in the same space). Maybe you should see a calibrated panel in a dark room with a bluray of "Sunshine" to fully understand the capabilities of plasma :)
The V10 wasn't one of the mentioned models. Also, what if your graphics card doesn't have the necessary fine resolution adjustment? As in: any Mac.
"Also, do you really want to say, that the black reproduction on a plasma panel is bad?"
I didn't say that. I said anything darker than a midtone sucks. Plain black isn't a problem for plasmas, so I wouldn't even factor that in. But gradients and shadows are a big problem. They wind up looking like a newspaper halftone, a dithered one-bit image. Take a look at any dim contour on a plasma screen.
@Information Central
Sorry your mac can't do what a PC can.
As far as black crush goes, PVA panels (which most modern LCDs use) have it much, much worse than plasmas. These new Panasonics are going to have KURO level blacks, which no one has even come close to yet.
The Mac IS a PC. If you mean Windows, say Windows.
And it's not the platform; it's the video-card driver. That function would still need to be implemented under Windows as well, and not only in one Nvidia driver.
The Kuros were indeed better in dark gradients, so we'll see about these new panels.
@Information Central
No a PC is a PC and a Mac is a Mac. By your logic, all of the Apple commercials would be including themselves when they trash the PC side. Just realize that PC means Non-Mac.
@lUp
Just a quick comment about video driver overscan compensation: when you do that you're throwing away pixels. It's better to have 1:1 pixel mapping in the set. No panel should be shipped without this.
@Sonic Death Monkey
And the problem with NOT having overscan is that many TV programs and movies don't use the full frame, and you end up with thin black bars along the edges. That is true not only for standard def, but also for some high def programs. By having about 2% overscan, you never see those bars, and for the programs that actually use the entire 1920x1200, you are not losing any valuable information at the edges. Where the overscan becomes a problem is when you try to use the screen as a computer monitor. In that case, it should be possible to adjust the desktop space to only use the viewable area of the screen. This is built into the Windows drivers for both Nvidia and ATI/AMD. It is also possible to correct in Linux for both brands, although the procedure it not as simple. I don't know if this is possible or not on a Mac. My Panny plasma has overscan and no way to override it in the monitor. I have been able to correct it for both Windows and Linux with both AMD and Nvidia cards.
Interesting you would quote from antiquated Panasonic Televisions. Are you really going back to 2005-2006 models to prove your point?
On another note...
I believe at some point AVS Forums and other sites should go back and erase garbage that has been remedied or never was an issue at all. I'm so tired of still hearing that Plasmas need to be recharged, only last 5 years, or can't be put in a bright room. All of the new LCD/LED LCDs have super glare panels far worse than any plasma.
I was at CES and overheard someone telling a friend he had 2 plasmas that bit the dust. I asked him who the manufacturers were...he replied Maxent and Vizio. I then replied saving a buck really didn't work did it...you can't go around bashing a technology where you made a poor purchase decisions...TWICE.
"No a PC is a PC and a Mac is a Mac."
Wrong, genius. "PC" stands for PERSONAL COMPUTER. You can't even argue that there's a hardware-platform difference anymore, since the Intel switchover. And on top of that, Macs run Windows, making your failure to distinguish OSs from hardware platforms even more complete.
"Interesting you would quote from antiquated Panasonic Televisions. Are you really going back to 2005-2006 models to prove your point?"
So you throw away $1000+ TVs every four years? And are against warning other consumers about design blunders that might be repeated? And like to deride those who DO take the time to point them out?
YOU'RE WELCOME, you miserable ingrate.
Anyone trusting those marketed native On/Of contrast ratios marketed by the flat panel manufacturers needs to go a bridge in the abyss. Why on earth anyone would trust them, AND report on them as being news-worthy is an example of a Darwin Award in the making.
So, who can measure 200,000:1 On/Off native contrast ratio? Ante up, folks, because we'll need you to prove Panasonic wrong. Of course, if Panasonic has found a way to eliminate the precharge condition on plasma cells then reality might be within reach as long as one's viewing environment doesn't restrict one's plasma to 1/1000 that CR.
Maybe they should market this as the Jesus Plasma, or the plasma that Jesus would buy. :)
These ratios are becoming a bit ridiculous. Is there a perfect ratio that we'll arrive at soon or are we just going to see the number increase steadily year after year?
Panasonic had this guy at CES next to another Plasma touting 40,000 to 1 contrast ratio. It was in a darkened room, so you could get the "full" effect. The "full effect" was damned disappointing. Was the 5,000,000 to 1 CR plasma better than the 40,000:1 CR plasma? Sure. 125 times better? Not a freakin' chance. 5,000,000:1 sounds unbelievable, and it is—it truly was about twice as good as it's 40,000:1 brethren. True story.
@byran
I was there, I'm pretty sure I saw the same demo you are talking about (when I was there, they had fireworks showing on both sets). I agree, you could definitely see a difference between the '09 and '10 model side by side...enough to make me regret my '09 Panny Plasma? Nope. But glad to see they keep improving them.
Wow! Who said, that Plasma is dead? Show me that on any other screen-tech!
every company has it's own (marketing) method to mention their contrast ratio...I'm pretty sure that the real CR of these plasmas is not 5.000.000:1 while 9G Kuros were almost 10.000:1...anyhow, I'm also sure that these plasmas will do excelent Kuro like black levels, and the price translation is not accurate, they will cost pretty much the same as 2009 models (or lower), for a perfect 1:1 mapping zero overscan you need to turn off Pixel Orbiter...plasma still rocks and blows away any other current TV tech out there
Amusing contrast ratio drivel. In reality last year's best Panasonics measured at about 1500:1 when done with genuine testing (ANSI contrast). Most HDTVS are a lot worse too, usually under 1000:1.
I bet it's blacker on than off.
Anyone know if Panny will backport Skype with HD capabilities to VieraCast on 2009 models? Would be nice to cash in on a G10 on clearance when these arrive but I might just wait until the 2010 G models drop in price later in summer. Of course those prices quoted are full retail and will never cost that much discounted.
$2,100 for a 42" S2 cannot be accurate, considering the model it replaces (42 S1) sells for as little as $700.
These $500 and $700 prices are closeout prices on 2009 models. I believe the $2100 is a converted price for this tv selling in Japan. Its brand new so expect it to cost more.
U.S. prices should be lower than $2100 though. My guess is around $1400 msrp and maybe $1200/1300 almost from the start (42" model)
I mean $1200/1300 street prices
I bought a 54S1 for $1099 before Bing Cashback from Sears on black friday. Fully satisfied.
Contrast ratios are an engagement in creative writing, so I don't get impressed by wild numbers.
But as a long-time anti-plasma guy, I have to take my hat off to Panasonic's V-series plasmas. Seeing one in action made me research the field yet again, and I concluded that *good* plasmas are at a low risk of burn-in, and they produce the best image available today in mass-production, large, attainable displays. (Sorry OLED)
After 3 months of owning a Panasonic TCP65V10, I can't find it lacking in any way, including contrast ratio and color gradation across the gamut, even in dark and mid-tones. FYI, I use the THX setting, and my entire system supports Deep Color.
Nicely done, Panasonic. And it looks like you're getting even better.
I know I keep reading and being told burn-in is a thing of the past or of the lower end plasmas. But I swear if I went out and bought a V10 and got burn in from say watching programs with the black bars along the edges as my in-laws did on their Hitachi, I'd kill someone. Granted Hitachi isn't Panasonic, but is it that low on the totem pole?
I have a Sammy LN52A750 and I dig it, still, a lot. I wanted to grab a B750 for the minor improvements across the board and darker blacks but they never got past the A750 in size I believe. So anyhow I have been hovering around the idea of grabbing a 2010 Panny instead but burn-in fears are hard to block out.
I wish I had experience with a V10 Panny to feel confident in it not happening. I just don't know. 3K-4K isn't chump change to play around with TV gambling.
Just a couple of thoughts on the new Panasonic plasmas with respect to burn-in. This is largely a thing of the past now on the new 2009 and 2010 Panasonic plasmas. You would need to have a constant static image on the screen for approximately 72 hours straight before any burn in would occur on these screens. Almost no one ever does that today unless you only play one video game, all the time, or you own a sports bar and only leave one channel on all the time (crawl bar at the bottom that never changes ie ESPN). Plasmas are most suseptable to burn in durring their first 100 hours of use. After that, the phosphers have "aged" sufficiently and are far less suseptable to any burn-in after that. Even if you did manage to burn an image into your new Panasonic plasma TV, there are multiple things that the TV can do to remove that burn in once it occurs. Almost no one burns anything into any model of Panasonic Plasam TV these days though. You would almost have to try to do it.
re @Unverified and @MikeTechno's comments about plasma burn-in -- My informal research by way of anecdotal evidence from numerous Panasonic plasma owners, including people I trust and know personally, is that they have not seen permanent burn-in after over a year of use, which includes a mix of 4:3, 16:9, and anamorphic content, all in native aspect ratios and not-zommed (ie., black bars on sides or top and bottom).
Temporary image retention, which can be seen for a very short time (like 30 seconds), happens when some phosphor is exposed to bright material for a long time (e.g., a 2-hour documentary about the arctic in 4:3, then switching to a 16:9 program). Again, my research says that a *good* plasma, such as Panasonics, don't show permanent burn-in.
No plasma manufacturer recognizes burn-in as a "defect", so it's not under warranty. That said, it appears that good plasmas, specifically Panasonic's are resistant to this, and will not show burn-in under "normal" use for several years.
I'm hoping that my TCP65V10 serves me well for at least 5 years, and hopefully longer.