Panasonic cops to rising black levels in its plasma HDTVs, but questions still remain
By Richard Lawler 
posted February 4th 2010 9:37PM
posted February 4th 2010 9:37PM
In order to achieve the optimal picture performance throughout the life of the set, Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an automatic control which adjusts an internal driving voltage at predetermined intervals of operational hours. As a result of this automatic voltage adjustment, background brightness will increase from its initial value ... The newest Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an improved automatic control which applies the voltage adjustments in smaller increments. This results in a more gradual change in the Black Level over time.Especially considering many buyers purchased their televisions specifically for those deep black levels, you can see why a TV suddenly going Sammy Sosa overnight would be upsetting. One of the reigning theories in the thread indicated by poster & calibrator D-Nice has been that this is by design, but a flaw in the settings caused the large jumps (around double the brightness, as measured by several owners light meters) instead of a much more subtle change. So what now for owners or potential buyers? Without more details about what is going on and whether or not anything can be done about it, like CNET's David Katzmeier, it's hard to see how we can continue to recommend these HDTVs for purchase without knowing what they will do months or years down the line. The ball is in Panasonic's court now, a speedy response could do a lot to assuage the concerns of current and potential owners.
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
In order to achieve the optimal picture performance throughout the life of the set, Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an automatic control…
*cough*-BS-*cough*
@pbase
I think most Plasma TVs incorporate something like this. As the phosphor ages it's affective light output deteriorates and so they increase the output to compensate for this deterioration.
I say that's bullshit. Plus, plasma is crappy stone-age old technology and Panasonic is still clinging to it.
Just get a good RGB-LED and don't sweat it. :D
@Leo
Sorry, some of us have standards.
@MacBandit
This is a possible explanation, but that doesn't explain that in about a year after having mine calibrated I am unable to even see #15 on the black test here:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
Most people that are noticing these changes are ones that had theirs calibrated(or did it themselves) and wonder if the problem has something to do with this process... I paid good money to have my TV calibrated and wonder what Panasonic thinks they are doing when they blow away those changes automatically.
@lineman78
Why did you pay to have it calibrated instead of doing it yourself?
@Ordeith2
I don't have the equipment, plus Panasonic doesn't expose a lot of settings through the user menu.
@lineman78
thanks for the link... You should really call Panny or check your calibration if your can not see #15. I can see all of them with out any troubles (room lights on & off on, calibrated THX mode) on my 54g10 with a little over 2000 hours.
Wouldn't this effect the THX certification? If the color and contrast change at a later time, then it would more than likely pull it out of the THX specs.
How are these things still being certified? Has anyone contacted THX for comments?
Going Sammy Sosa!!! BWAHAHAHAHA. Now THAT is why I love Engadget.
So glad I could comment on this.
@Alex You could comment on Engadget HD even when comments were off on the regular Engadget.
@Alex I loved that line too! Hilarious!
@Alex
can you explain this reference to me?
@Nayeem13
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Not-to-worry-Sammy-Sosa-is-just-rejuvenating-hi?urn=mlb,201086
@Nayeem13
Sosa bleached his skin. Google it dude it's pretty funny.
Add an option to disable it.
I do not own a G10, but I do own a U1 which is one of the cheaper 12G Panasonic plasma's and I have experienced the change in black levels myself.
Dark scenes in movies now appear dark gray instead of black. As I have said numerous times to the doubters in no way do I expect Kuro blacks at $700 but I do expect better black levels than my $300 LCD monitor.
Well the first step is for Panasonic to admit there is a problem. This statement comes close, but doesn't quite get there.
This problem dismays me, because not only did I buy a 42G10 (and am 100% happy with it... for now) but I also spent a lot of time convincing a friend of mine to buy a 54G10 too. If this problem occurs in his set, my credibility will be shot.
Indeed, I don't own a Panasonic plasma set myself (still have the old CRT, and no plan to change until it's busted), but I just talked my boss into buying a cheaper 50" one last week. I hope his model isn't affected.
Would someone in-the-know please explain how *increasing* the driving voltage, and thus the background brightness, could "achieve the optimal picture performance throughout the life of the set," as stated in Panasonic's response? It seems to me that increasing the voltage would increase contrast, but at the cost of brighter blacks (as experienced) and shortened life spans.
@allenvanhellen
I'm not "in-the-know" so much but I imagine that they increase the driving voltage to compensate for the decreased ability of the plasma material to hold a charge over time. I think this makes sense on paper but their implementation is obviously flawed and this shouldn't be happening to people within 6-12 months of purchase.
@invisible21 Well, it really shouldn't be happening at all. This is a case of the manufacturer deciding for you what you want out of your TV set. And they're deciding that what you want is *brightness*.
But modern TV's - even plasmas - are plenty bright even when they're old. Panasonic really has no reason to even need to do this. At most, they should make it an option. But even if they did, I guarantee 99% of people would leave it off even if they knew about it.
The whole thing is just idiotic on Panasonic's part, and that includes both the "feature" itself and their response to the outcry over it.
@(Unverified) I'd have to agree with plasmas being bright enough already. I can't say specifically for a Panny, but I just got a new 50" LG plasma and I have the brightness set at 30 percent. Any brighter and it would BURN my retinas! And this is in a well lit room with two windows. If it lost brightness over time I could turn up the brightness 10 or 20 percent. There should be no need to automatically increase the voltage.
Honestly I bought one of these sets (G10 series) PURELY based on reviews that said it had near-Kuro black levels for a fraction of the price. If there is not a firmware fix for this or a recall to fix it, I imagine a class-action lawsuit or something could be in the works because if not for the stellar black level reviews I probably would have drifted towards an LED backlit LCD. I love Panasonic but this is BS.
Also, LOVE the Sammy Sosa line...classic.
@invisible21 I have a 50G15 which I think is essentially the same as the G10 and the set's been great but I've only had it since last summer. I haven't noticed any degredation in black levels yet but this news is concerning. And like yourself I also got this set based on favourable reviews. I hope there's an easy fix for this.
I've always liked and bought Panasonic but product loyalty can easily be lost.
@Rob
I got mine this past summer as well and I can't say I've noticed the black levels decrease, however I almost never watch in a completely dark room (which is how a lot of the AVS guys noticed it) so I don't really have a frame of reference. Like you, I'm more concerned about the future. I bought this plasma to replace a Samsung plasma that died waaaay before it should have (less than 3 years) and I bought this because others I know had been so happy with their Pannys (in addition to the favorable reviews). Anyhow, here's hoping something gets fixed. At this point I'm REALLY glad I decided against the extra money for the V10 as it supposedly has the same problem.
I'd love to see some numbers on the base brightness.
If they're effectively decreasing the modulation visibility (difference between the highest luminous intensity and lowest intensity) by just driving the panel faster, there's something wrong.
This is something that LCD manufacturers have been doing for some time; overdriving the display. Weird.
So i gather from what pany said was ..We knew/know about it but um ...our new models are better..now um now that you found out sorry
@brolin
Exaclty.
"We already have your money, sorry. If you want a great TV with deep blacks buy one of our new 2010 plasmas".
my family has had nothing but issues with panny camcorders, cordless phones, cd players, microwaves, even vcrs back in the day... this is just another notch on the long belt that is panny fail. I love my sanding tv. no issues.
@Prokanda: ahh, was in a hurry and didn't notice the phone "corrected it". *sammy (as in Samsung) =(
Our 1+ year old Panasonic Plasma has upgradeable firmware via SD card, so I guess it would be relatively easy for Panasonic to produce a fix for those (few) folks who would recognize, and be concerned, about the problem. I must admit I bought the Panny and plasma, for black levels and refresh speed. So far I haven't noticed any issue, and I've been recommending these TV's for folks looking for non-gaming flat screens.
@repelsteeltjie Why non-gaming? Plasmas are actually more responses and have less input lag than any other type of display outside of CRTs. LCDs have significant lag.
I game on mine all the time. If it's burn in you are worried about, they are perfectly fine. You might get some slight image retention, but it goes away quickly when viewing normal material.
Interpretation: The newer TVs are getting less black at a slower rate than the older TVs. But what I do not understand is that they claim that plasma TVs have a 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio. That translate to "very black". So should Plasma TVs not stay black for years, especially since regular LCDs (except Sony's) operate at a significantly less contrast ratio of 1000:1? Note: I am talking about "optical" contrast ratio and not "dynamic".
What does the level of
@F C
I think you forgot to finish your
It's almost like Engadget has been invaded by Candleja
@DWells55
Don't be stupid. Candlejack is fake. There's no way tha
I wonder if there is a setting in the advanced menus (system configuration menus) on the device to play around with the brightness settings. Part of my job is calibrating TVs for a living and there are quite a bit of settings in the system menus; however, you could easily "break" a TV. Doesn't make much sense. The real question is why did they start doing this now? Interesting...
@dgnike
Everything I've read on AVS (which is some but not all, as there is a lot) indicates that this cannot be compensated for with settings. A few of the guys over there are professional calibrators and at last I checked they had no luck mitigating the problem.
Should have bought a Kuro.
Still, disappointing, since Pioneer's prices have spiked I was hoping to get a Panny plasma as a second set.
This is why I like LCD tv's. My toshiba regza, which is 3 years old, is still perfect.
@scat19
It's safe to say that these plasmas have deeper blacks and overall better pictures than your LCD even after years and years of use.
If Plasma is so good how come there isn't a single professional broadcast video monitor or computer monitor?
Every pro monitor is LCD.
@Mike V Because LCD, unlike Plasma and CRT, will not get screen "burn in" from stationary images. But really, your question completely missed what was said above- Plasmas have much deeper black levels, higher refresh rates, and an over-all better picture for viewing movies.
@scat19 You'll see your cold cathode backlight start to fade and the color temperature will change with it.
@Mike V Your theory is wrong... Professional broadcast and computer monitors are different because they are typically smaller than 32" and plasmas typically aren't produced any smaller than 42". Plasma pro monitors are actually big business for Panasonic and Samsung. Their pro monitors are intended especially for use as PC displays..
@Palomino LCD can actually get screen "burn-in" from stationary images. It's just takes longer to occur. Read up on the term "image persistence"
@Palomino Sorry to burst your bubble... but read up on "image persistence" and then tell me LCDs can't "burn-in" from stationary images
I have been in that thread quite a bit as a V10 owner.
It is sad to see Panasonic has to admit they're doing this, but in a way good to see they are at least admitting something is up. Here's to hoping they can get on top of the problem quickly and actually address it via software since it's obviously not feasible for them to replace a whole lot of hardware.