Panasonic cops to rising black levels in its plasma HDTVs, but questions still remain
By Richard Lawler 
posted February 4th 2010 9:37PM
posted February 4th 2010 9:37PM
In order to achieve the optimal picture performance throughout the life of the set, Panasonic Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an automatic control which adjusts an internal driving voltage at predetermined intervals of operational hours. As a result of this automatic voltage adjustment, background brightness will increase from its initial value ... The newest Viera plasma HDTVs incorporate an improved automatic control which applies the voltage adjustments in smaller increments. This results in a more gradual change in the Black Level over time.Especially considering many buyers purchased their televisions specifically for those deep black levels, you can see why a TV suddenly going Sammy Sosa overnight would be upsetting. One of the reigning theories in the thread indicated by poster & calibrator D-Nice has been that this is by design, but a flaw in the settings caused the large jumps (around double the brightness, as measured by several owners light meters) instead of a much more subtle change. So what now for owners or potential buyers? Without more details about what is going on and whether or not anything can be done about it, like CNET's David Katzmeier, it's hard to see how we can continue to recommend these HDTVs for purchase without knowing what they will do months or years down the line. The ball is in Panasonic's court now, a speedy response could do a lot to assuage the concerns of current and potential owners.
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
There is no question that this should have been made clear to potential buyers. I understand that the picture will degrade over time, but it will do so naturally (for lack of a better word). This will surely end in a class settlement in which we will all get $3.86 and they will get a slap on the wrist. It won't hurt their sales because 99% of people buying these don't know what a black level is.
Two words:
F$@#ing disappointing. :(
I hope Panasonic tells us how long before we should expect to see our black levels rise for every model they've produced. And a firmware to turn that off too.
If I may clear up some confusion: The Panasonic panels are rated at 100,000 hours as opposed to LCD lifespan of 60,000 hrs. In order to achieve this there has to be automatic drive compensation as no TV ages unchanged. If you think for second that your Kuro or XBR is going to look exactly the same 7 years from the day you bought it then I got news for ya. Panasonic probably could update the drive signal to maintain better black levels but would have to withdraw the 100,000 hour spec. Either way people, don't get so freaked out. It's not a big deal.
@tvguy761
Too bad we're not talking about 7 years, these sets have noticeably degraded PQ after less than 12 months.
If you're OK with that, there's a company called Monster Cable I'd like to introduce you to.
They have the best cables money can buy. *wink*
@tvguy761
What he said. These models haven't even been AVAILABLE for 12 months. I saw them demoed at the 2009 CES in January and waited to buy until these were available because I was so impressed by the "NeoPDP" black levels. I fully understand that the picture will degrade after time, but less than a year??? If they claim 100,000 hour life, that would be 11.4 years if I watched the thing 24 hours a day and you're telling me that perceivable picture degradation after less than 1 year of ownership is acceptable or even to be expected? What are you smoking and can you pass some my way?
In other words, it's not a bug - it's a feature.
Any word on which models and years are affected?
I just got a 54S1 for the living room and moved the 42px-6u to the bedroom.
I have noticed on the 5 year old 42px-6u that the black levels are lighter than they used to be, but it is 5 years with lots of viewing time.
AVS forum is a great place but not well organized so if anyone has come across the answer to which models reply to my post please!
I love my KURO.
I've had my 77U for 2 years now and there hasn't been any degradation in black levels. Still looks better than all my friends with brand new LCDs. And it sure as hell looks a million times better than my Sharp Aquos 64 series.
I was recently frightened into buying Samsung's Flagship LED TV after I bought one of their buzzing plasmas. I considered a Panasonic plasma as an alternative to LED before I read about this on Cnet, however unconfirmed at the time. Why isn't there an affordable and viable plasma on the market today? It's like these manufactures are purposefully sabotaging themselves?
@redsyrup
One, there's no such thing as an LED tv, It's an LCD.
Two, you just answered your own question. Consumers bought the anti-Plasma, Pro-LCD hype hook, line, and sinker.
Pioneer was forced out of the display business because people would rather pay $3500 for a 50" LCD than $2500 for a 50" Plasma with a better picture.
@redsyrup Luckily my B650 Sammy plasma doesn't buzz. Think the black levels are very good and love the colors and all the features. I've read that the black levels are very close to the Panny, with it being a toss-up but generally the nod given to Panny on that I think, but it seems like I had even read where the Sammy was better in some cases. Maybe this is why? Just hope Samsung isn't doing the same thing.... Weird, just got a call in the middle of this from a friend that wanted help picking out a TV, but think he wants something in the 60" range. Guess Panny might still be the choice for something this big.
I dunno. This smells like they prime the set to look great in the store, and then sneakily ramp down over time to cut back on field failures. This doesn't sound good to me no matter how it's spun. If they were honest about it, the TV would be set as needed at the start.
Ive owned a 42S10 since the summer - so far so good, but the avsf posts have me worried.
Is there a definitive word on the overvoltage affecting the S series as well?
Since when did cowsumers adopt manufacturers to be our picture quality parental enforcers? Makes me want to return my Panasonic unit that I bought last December. I give this two thumbs down (and dirty).
I was all hyped for the last 2 years to buy another bigger Plasma for my front room to replace the old RPTV.
Not anymore.
Panasonic JUST opened a brand new plasma screen plant. This news is SO going to screw them, just like the sudden acceleration is screwing Toyota now.
this is SO horrible news from Panasonic to us plasma fans...how in the hell someone who pays between $1.000 to $4.000 for their plasmas will accepts that black level AND IMAGE RETENTION will totally arise after ONE YEAR of use? are you kidding me Panasonic? and your explanation like "oops, sorry...but our 2010 models are better in this regard so buy these" is insane!! completely unacceptable! My Pioneer Kuro after ONE YEAR still looks incredible dark, we will certainly miss you Pioneer
My question is... who is noticing the increase in black levels? Is it the professional calibrator AND the average person? Or is it mostly the pros noticing the difference. I ask this because I've often gone to the AVS forums for reviews and comments on equipment I'm going to buy. I am by no means a professional, but do like to know what I'm buying and what to expect. As it turns out, when I do get the gadget home and hook it up I often never notice the "huge" problems endlessly debated on those forums. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure they are there. And if I train my eye, I'm sure that I could learn to discern them. But an easily seen problem for a pro often isn't even noticed by the layman.
And that's my point. Just like an audio engineer in a top studio can probably notice that the trumpet player's 3rd note in the eighth bar of a song was flat out of a 12-piece band. While 99% of everyone else wouldn't notice even if they tried.
As I read through this, I see both kinds of posts. People who have noticed it and people who haven't. So you have to question the level of expertise of the people noticing the problem.
Either way Panasonic needs to address the issue. At least give us the option of turning off the feature. I wouldn't think it would be difficult.
@BRmark I totally agree with you. Many non-videophiles come to AVS Forum and then wish they never did lol. The average consumer would not notice all of these display "imperfections" (clouding, flashlighting, etc.) that drive AVS members absolutely nuts.
@BRmark Several people in the thread at AVS noticed the problem randomly watching the set one day and then went searching and found the thread. Also posts of pictures of the sets in question beside cheap small LCD sets or Monitors make it quite obvious it is a major issue and not merely something a clibrator would notice (though it is measureable too).
@BRmark
You and I appear to be very similar types of consumers with similar attitudes. I was relieved to find the below in the AVS thread - seems like it's probably a non-issue for "regular" users. Obviously the whole thing is still a little annoying but I'm no longer seriously concerned.
"Why might some suspect their units are NOT affected?
Obviously I can't say with any degree of certainty that every single unit is affected, but I can provide some reasons why it might not be noticeable to everyone. First you have to consider the environment. All these models have relatively poor anti-reflective/light-blocking filters, so any ambient light that hits the screen makes this issue very very difficult to notice. Obviously this describes pretty much everyone, very few people view displays in a totally blacked out room. Taking this one step further, to have a truly accurate recollection and perception of the MLL's, you would have to almost view the panel exclusively in this blacked out room as any washed out daytime or lit use could potentially bias ones impression. Lastly, you have to consider people's performance expectations. Post-elevation, these panels produce MLL's and CR's largely on par with mid-range CCFL LCD's from 2008 (e.g. Samsung A550/650/750/Etc). Most users and reviewers described these makes as having "Strong, Deep Blacks" and "High Contrast Ratio's", so it's understandable why some might not identify this as an issue.
I haven't really looked into this, is the G10 series having the problem?
As someone who researched their TV purchase for about a year before deciding to buy a 46inch Panasonic Viera G10, this is very, very depressing news. I hope that Panasonic has a more appropriate response....
Maybe this is how they incorporate "planned obsolescence" into plasma sets? The Kuros and these highend Panasonics are near perfect display technologies. Maybe this is how plasma manufacturers will be able to sell newer models every year, like LCD sets (120, 240, LED, thinner)?
I found this news to be troubling. I am in the market for a new HDTV and Panasonic is on the top of my list. I really hope Panasonic address this issue further than just saying "Yeah its a problem, but are 2010 won't have this issue". I still considering waiting for the 3D tv's to come out so it might not really be an issue for me. Though I do feel for the people out there that demand the best picture quality from their sets and are not getting it.
So glad I found this article. I've had my trigger finger over the 46" G10 all day today. I've wanted it for a long time now. This issue needs to be resolved before I buy one now or till the '10 model hits the $1,000 pricepoint. Until then, no deal Panasonic. Ball is in your court.
I was under the impression that Panasonic was getting out of the TV production.Maybe this is their "swan song"as it were? Panasonic was once a trusted name in electronics, but now it seems to have nose dived. Can Sony be far behind? I hope not.
@tonycaudillc
no they are not...actually they invested 1 billion dollars opening the world largest plasma factory last january in Japan...their plasmas are here for the foreseable future...
I have a 2 year old 58 inch PZ750 and the black levels are still fine. The color is still fantastic. But it uses a lot of electricity. Can it be that to be more energy efficient the new screens need this automatic adjustment or will I be looking at the same problem in the future? I have had excellent luck with Pana products - best reliability and longevity compared to other japanese and korean av products like sharp, sony and samsung that I have owned.
I thought everyone else discontinue their Plasma TV's. I working in a Electronics Dept. The only two TV's we still selling is Panason 50" Sanyo 50" and now we have Emerson 42". Still don't see why their still making plasma TV's when everyone else is buying LCD. I know for a fact people buy Plasma TV's cause of their low price.
@Inspector Gadget80
Sorry, but you are mistaken pal. I bought a plasma because I couldn't stand the way the LED LCD looked next to it. It doesn't matter if the set I bought was $700 or $3000, I would pick plasma every time.
When I watch television I usually watch with others in the living room and with an LCD they would never be able to see the picture. Contrast drops to more than half of what the manufacturer rates the LCD panel at where as a plasma can actually look even better off angle.
@Inspector Gadget80
And I know for a fact that people buy Emerson's, Insignia's and Vizio's because they are cheap. And because they are far better than the best locally dimmed LCD's like the XBR8, UNB8500,... etc. Why ? What's wrong ??. All LCD's are the same (like you think all plasmas are the same). Right ? Wrong !
Search Youtube for
SOMEONE IS ANGRY AT PANASONIC
In case this link is blocked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE3Mp89xHOg
Your best source for info is AVSFORUM if you want to know OWNERS opinions.
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