Zune Pass hit by wave of disappearing music?
By Donald Melanson 
posted February 4th 2010 7:22PM
posted February 4th 2010 7:22PM
It's not exactly all that uncommon to see some music disappear from Zune Pass (or any other music service) due to rights issues and whatnot, but Microsoft's subscription service seems to have been hit with significantly more vanishing acts than usual as of late, which has resulted in a sizable number of complaints from users. In some cases, that includes all the music from some artists (Arcade Fire, Vampire Weekend, and Spoon, to name a few), while others have seen only some albums, or some songs disappear. For its part, Microsoft's customer service seems to be telling folks that any music no longer available is due to the record labels pulling it, but the reports from users seem to suggest there's little rhyme or reason about what's been pulled. So, any Zune Pass users out there missing some of their favorite tunes? Let us know in comments.
[Thanks, Zack]
[Thanks, Zack]
@Sgt Zeppelin
I get what you're saying, except that owning 10 MP3s for $15 isn't a very good deal.
@sonicyoof It's not a good deal by itself, but there's the added bonus of being able to download whatever music you want (except what's not available, which hasn't been much a problem so far).
I know I don't get to keep those songs, but the freedom it gives me to discover new music has been priceless...or worth the equivalent of $5/month ;)
@HighestRanked
Wow and I was just scrolling through the comments noting how either everyone was more polite or Engadget did a good job taking care of all the trolls. Was about to comment on the new state of the comments.
And then...BAM.
Explain your reasoning HighestRanked, or don't comment.
I noticed quite a few albums disappear. Daphne Loves Derby had an album disappear, Young Love had an album disappear, and lots and lots of songs disappeared from within albums that are still available. I'm pretty bummed. Ordered a few CDs from Half.com to fill back in the gaps of the some of the albums I lost.
That being said, Zunepass is stall one of the best investments I make. I get the 10 DRM free (I make sure of it) songs a month to keep forever and then essentially only pay $5 for unlimited access to a continually growing library. Can't be beat.
Nothing of consequence has gone missing for me. Zune pass still works great for me. All the music I can consume at $15 a month is still the best system available even if I lose the Arcade Fire due to them not wanting to be a part of the subscription service.
what I can recommend to Microsoft is that they warn users on the songs that will disappear so they can act if they want to buy it.
@mikmik111 I think the music that was available before will be back. Sounds like they switched over to a new catalog system and are getting things in order. Just got off the phone with them.
They're calling it "system maintenance" and are looking at 48 hour ETA. Hope so.
I had the entire DJ Honda catalog downloaded to my hard drive. I tried to buy some songs of the "All Killa, No Filla" album, but the software told me that it wasn't available. It would still play though.
I thought that if I deleted it, then downloaded it again using the "Buy song" credit, it would work. Big mistake, because after deleting it and going to the "All Killa, No Filla" page, I learned that the album was removed. Coincidentally, the same day they removed "All Killa, No Filla", they added "DJ Honda IV"... weird.
So I learned my lesson, I won't delete any music I like if I've already downloaded it, because even if it's no longer available in the marketplace, you can still play it!
Well, this sucks. I've been thinking about getting a Zune HD and a Pass, because they seem so complimentary, but I'll wait for this to blow over/be revealed for what it really is.
Does anyone know if iTunes library is having the same problem. ???
@logic thinker No iTunes isn't affected. It's just a Zune problem caused by system maintenance.
There is no spoon?
@Eternal Density The spoon is too big.
Maybe they're getting ready for the zune phone, don't ya think?
I don't think anybody is noticing but the albums that have disappeared from Zune (they are actually listed as "not available") also don't show the label for the album (it is listed under the date and genre). I think it just is one huge database issue and not being able to tie an album with a label screws everything up.
The follies of subscription music. Wait until they attempt to pass a price increase onto consumers.
That's why I'll never stop buying CDs. I can listen to them for the rest of my life. I'd like to see a publisher try to take them from me.
@Galley
I can't agree enough! Besides, CD's are the only way to get lossless flac ripped at my standards. As an added benefit you can get a CD for around half price if you buy it used from amazon.
@New Reformation I stopped buying CDs a long time ago because I was tired of paying $15 for a couple of songs I actually liked. I only buy the CD now if I know I like every song, or at least most of the songs on the disc.
Engadget asks, I answer: I have not noticed any of my songs missing on ZunePass.
I have, however, noticed songs missing from YouTube that I used to use to replace the audio in my videos. I wonder if certain labels have decided to step back to the stone age and go back to buy-the-whole-cd-or-else strategy.
Commenters suggesting that "Subscription models fail" seem to be coming from the camp that all music should be free and therefore P2P'd with impunity. For $15 a month I know what kind of agreement I am entering with a Zune Pass: I get access to a very large catalog for as long as I continue to pay. Labels may pull some artists/albums from the service but the catalog remains in the range of millions of individual songs. As the plan promotes, the songs that I "rent" and enjoy a lot are available for permanent ownership and DRM-free download at the rate of 10 per month.
I have around 1,500 songs on my Zune 80GB that are "rented" with my Zune Pass. Some are enjoyed occasionally, some I've never heard once since I will often download an entire album for one song and maybe discover other tracks eventually. I've had my Zune Pass for 8 months. That comes to $120 for that entire period, which includes 80 DRM-free songs. So, let's say I have exactly 1,500 songs from the Zune Pass, I chose 80 as permanent keepers, so 1,420 remain as "rentals". 80 songs purchased from iTunes = 80*$1.29 = $103. I have the same number of fully-owned tracks as an iTunes customer, but I paid $17 more. For my $17 I get access to 1,420 other tracks. If I chose to go nuts, I could get another couple thousand "rentals" and not pay another penny. Load your iPod with the same number of songs as my Zune (1,500) and you are out $1,935. Sure, you get to keep all those tracks indefinitely, but I have about $1,800 more than you do. I'm willing to lose access to a few songs to save $1,800. You have to REALLY love Arcade Fire to throw an extra $1,800 at them... of course, with a Zune Pass you could have used your 10 monthly DRM-free download credits to secure ownership of those now-gone Arcade Fire tracks.
This reminds me... I rented an apartment 15 years ago when I was in college. I went back there last year and the landlord won't let me in. I paid for the damn place, don't I own it??
@Chief2 Incorrect. I pay for all music I own, but that's the point, I own it: it does not disappear randomly due to the whims of the recording industry.
And to counter your biggest point, iTunes isn't the only way to get music if you don't have a Zune pass so $1.29 per song isn't the only option. eMusic works out 42c per song on my plan; I hunt for cheaper CDs, etc.
Smart shopping is key.
@Chief2
Where did you get the idea that all music on iTunes is $1.29? It isn't. Look again. Furthermore, your $15 fee for Zune Pass to get 10 songs means you pay $1.50 per song. The rest of the music isn't yours and will be gone as soon as you stop throwing money at Microsoft.
@Dale P OK. If you can find the same catalog of songs on eMusic (really??) then you're only out $630 to get 1500 songs. If $630 is a trivial amount of money, lucky you.
Pick your math. I'll go along with the argument that I'm paying $1.50 per track for the 10 non-DRM songs I get per month with the Zune Pass. By that logic, then, I am also getting free access to a multi-million track music catalog. Sounds like a pretty reasonable deal to me, even if a small fraction of that catalog availability changes over time. 10 tracks purchased from iTunes, emusic, Amazon, etc., regardless of the per track price, gives you access to exactly 10 tracks. Nothing more.
I use the Zune Pass to discover new music, lots of new music, at a very low cost. For people who like a small number of artists and don't listen to a wide variety of music, then a subscription model is not an appropriate choice. The alternatives for me are spending many hundreds of dollars or illegal downloading. I'm not foolish with my money and I prefer to not break the law.
Do Zune Pass haters rent movies? If so, I'm curious to hear the logic that would reconcile the difference between rented music and movies. If Netflix (or any source for rented movies, don't get hung up on representative examples again), had a monthly rental option that allowed you to keep a nominal number of movies permanently in addition to rented DVDs, then the playing field would be equivalent. Short of that, the argument for renting DVDs is weaker than the Zune Pass model. Perhaps an argument can be made for scavenging the WalMart discount bin.
Why do I imagine Steve Ballmer laughing when he comes across this story in the press?
Zune Marketplace got rid of most of The B-52's. They have the newest album and remixes, but that's it. They also got rid of The Superions. They just had an album that came out 2 weeks ago and now it's been pulled. I love the Zune Pass, but if they don't have music I like then it's not worth the monthly price.
@hallucinogen52
I agree with you there, It'd be nice if they kept all the albums up all the time instead of pulling them and making your songs not work, or teasing you with entire albums that are grayed out so you can't download them...
In general, the Zune catalog has been good in terms of variety of artists and depth of content. There have been issues with disappearing artists, but only in the last few months or so. Albums would become unavailable for ZunePass rental, but they'd still be listed in the catalog for MP3 purchase. The latest problem is with artists on smaller labels, such as Arcade Fire (all of whose albums were previously available), completely disappearing from the catalog. This doesn't affect you if you've purchased the tracks, only if you've rented. However, the Zune Terms of Service does include a clause stating that "to the extent" that Microsoft "becomes aware of changes in availability of content" they will inform users of such a change. In three years of ZunePass usage I have never been informed ahead of time that my ZunePass content is going to be made unavailable, and that is dissapointing.
@HighestRanked
I have thought about it. In fact, I've thought so much about it that I've bought an iPod Touch. But don't think that others don't have reasons to buy a Zune. The Zune offers many things I miss on my iPod, such as a radio and an organized interface, among things. The design also appeals to me overall. I decided to go with the iPod cause I knew it had a better browser and apps.
Also, it doesnt matter whether I have the authority or not, it's Engadget that has the authority. You're trolling, and thus, your previous comment has been deleted.
Dude is a big fat liar. Get'm Avner!
@abdonjr Darn, I meant to leave this comment on the NBC lying to congress post. My bad Zune lovers.
I buy CD's... Whooo... -crickets chirping, hides in corner-
I've lost a few things, but nothing that I've used my credits on. There were also some songs that were not available for purchase, so I deleted the songs. I then searched and found the songs again and was able to download the song again. It was like it was the same song, but a different file.
Man if only Microsoft would release the Zune Pass subscription service here in Europe, still can't believe why they aren't doing that being the "magical" combination of hardware and software that the Zune is.
Yup music disappears all the time, freaking annoying, makes my playlists a mess!
Well Spoon was gone for about two weeks I think (tried to download after their music was in Chuck a while back). But I recently tried to re-download Ra Ra Riot and that was gone too. I'm glad this is posted, and that I'm not the only person having this trouble. Hopefully, they'll get the rights back for this stuff. Anyone have any kind of numbers or possibly names labels that were lost?
Lol I am finding this funny to listen to you guys fight back and forth I might have a Zune HD And my username is Antiapplekid but I do admit that the Zune pass does have some flaws I have had it for 2 years now and it's a nice way to find new music but I am always losing songs
True some songs disappear, but I notice songs which were previously unavailable get added quite often too. It's a toss up, for $15 a month I'm not unhappy with it.
Also for me when songs disappear, it's usually because of "house cleaning" on an artist, where they might have added a newer version of an album or something.
yes, I've lost songs, even, it seems, some that I purchased with song credits or cash. What the hell!?
And that's why Microsoft should stick to Office. =)
Has anyone ever tried sound taxi?? I have Zune Pass and paired with Sound Taxi, its a dream.. Download from Zune, run Sound Taxi, and BAM DRM FREE MP3's.... LEGALLY..
Well I really care less for ZUNE Pass I already have plentiful of Mp3's in my ext hdd's. As long I can download music and their are other sites to purchase mp3's not just only ZUNE Pass. As long I can play my videos and listen to my mp3's I'm fine with that.
Yes, I've noticed music disappearing. Just today, I noticed that an album by Person L was no longer available on the Marketplace, but it still plays because my license doesn't expire until March. I might as well use the $14.99 that I pay a month to actually buy a CD :(
Downloaded a couple of songs from the techno pop band "Venus Hum" a month ago. About 2 weeks ago after the Zune update, the album is no longer accessible, cannot download more music. Happened right about the same time as all these complaints.