Unearthed Microsoft emails reveal reaction to iTunes launch, make us giddy for MWC
By Darren Murph 
posted February 10th 2010 10:48AM
posted February 10th 2010 10:48AM
It's a funny thing, really. iTunes has somehow managed to become the world's largest seller of music in just seven years, yet it's easily one of the buggiest, most resource intensive and altogether unlikable pieces of software to ever come from the labs of Cupertino. From Microsoft's perspective, however, they're really just interested in the first bit, and in particular, why it wasn't able to take advantage of the market opportunity in the way Jobs and company did. Groklaw managed to dig up a handful of email chains that were made public after the Comes v. Microsoft antitrust litigation, and the content is nothing short of eye-opening. One particular snippet from Bill Gates was exceptionally juicy, as he noted (in a number of words) that Apple had somehow managed to "get a better licensing deal than anyone else has gotten for music." Jim Allchin's terse reply consisted of two statements, one of which was "we were smoked." Frankly, this unearthing couldn't have come at a better time. With Mobile World Congress about to get going in Barcelona, we're waiting on pins and needles to see what kind of music innovation is being veiled in the purported Windows Mobile 7 introduction. If you'll recall, we already heard that many elements from the Zune HD interface would be making their way onto the mobile side, and there's hardly a better time to really give iTunes a run for its money than mid-February 2010. Dig into the links below for more on the 2003 revelation -- it's a hoot, we tell ya.
I don't know about you guys but I am JONESING for an HD2 with Windows Phone 7 and some awesome Zune integration. I really want to get into Zune Pass but can't currently justify buying a Zune HD at the moment, as beautiful as it is. Currently running my Nexus One but I would love to swap it out for an HD2 with the aforementioned Music goodness.
@technogecko6 - Completely agree. I'm ready to buy an HD2 once it comes stateside, but not if it's still rocking WinMo 6.5. (I currently use a Storm2, Bold 9700 previously.)
@technogecko6
While I have been a Zune HD holdout as well, but if they introduce something like the Zune Pass for TV shows, I will sign up in a heartbeat and get a dock as well. It shouldn't be hard to do. Most shows are free online anyway and they could use a Movielink type deal where you can download a show and have a week or so to watch it before the download "expires."
@nicholiservia
Actually, that's one of the main reasons I bought a Zune HD - it's size. It is 2/3 the weight of the Touch and more portable. It's easier to take everywhere (jogs, etc). Although it's not my primary web surfing device, 3.2" is plenty big to do what you need to do. Plus that OLED screen is breathtaking.
I bought a Zune just for listening to music, and I think it's too large. I have a smartphone for everything else (I hate listening to music on a multitasking phone, it really needs its own device with constantly available controls).
@Chefgon I feel the same but carrying one device is a little better than haviing to grab both.
@technogecko6 The way I would buy a Zune (would never trade it for the iphone I'm in too deep in Apple juice now) is f they can create a cool desktop suite that does a whole bunch of things like messenger, outlook, media center and stuff like that. The own the desktop, why not take advantage instead of another half-assed music player? Something like that would be closer to that ipad rather than just the iphone.
@technogecko6
At the rapid rate of mobile hardware advancement, if the HD2, if it even runs WP7, will probably be the least capable device running it.
At any rate, I, as well, am very excited for what is to come.
If MS can manage torpedo it's way to the top, their model of a stable core with everything else open to 3rd party development coupled with excellent, established hardware partnerships has proven very conducive to an accelerated rate of tech breakthroughs.
Though new breakthroughs have come at an impressive rate, I think the Blackberry/iPhone/Android reign has stunted mobile growth. Apple hand-picks its short list of hardware vendors pre-assembly. 3rd party development possibilities could be compared to running from a floppy disk, because of their tight grip of core component's exposure to the outside. Contrastly, Android’s appeal is in some ways its biggest downfall. Open-Source is great on the surface, but more often than not, just means an ever-changing platform to code against. Its volatility is merited, because changes are made to improve the product, but there exists no accountability that core changes have everyone’s best interest in mind. This leaves most developers reinventing the wheel over and over in order provide any worthwhile software. So, in both cases (iPhone and Android), we end up with the huge influx of nonsensical trinket apps that we are seeing now, and the only impressive development is coming from Apple in their case, and Google in the case of Android. Blackberry, not to be too harsh, is a sitting duck. They are thriving from a lack of anything else.
Either way, if MS manages to make its way to the top with this concept, I think we can expect a development renaissance headed-up by the infinitely powerful smart clients, namely those for augmented reality integrating internet historic data, physical location information like GPS, directional info from accelerometers, user-supplied content from the internet, medical information, and really anything. I think it will be exciting to have a mobile leader that promotes the development associated with improving quality of life, and all-around increased efficiency in the tasks of life. Instead of what we have now: a neverending flow of next-gen variations on Tetris, guitar simulators, and so-on.
We live in extremely strange times, sometimes terrifying, sometimes bizarre, but more often than not, awe-inspiring and completely astonishing as we continue finding out the furthest-most edge of possible in every direction.
iTunes is worse than Flash on my laptop. Why is it such a system hog. That's why I use foobar2000
@dedparrot
I
@dedparrot We dont all have computers from 1999
@MoonWalkerCTE
mines 2 years old. i use the windows classic theme to make it run faster. i keep my laptop clean. i have quicktime alternative installed because quicktime is just as bad. i needed to sync my iPod so i had to install iTunes, and it's the only programme what works like a 200 year old crossing the street.
@dedparrot
dunno why i never had a problem with itunes on my mac... it's always worked and never really caused any problem at all... its performance's pretty good on video playback too...
but maybe it's the PC version that's shit...
@MoonWalkerCTE
I don't have a compter from 1999 either, but iTunes stills runs slow as hell.
@abrli Exactly.. as Jobs would say.. Apple is LAZY as shit.
@dedparrot
dont forget quicktime too! a commenter here at engadget suggested i use quicktime to play movies. i almost puked!
@dedparrot
3rd party software called Tune Tools 2 ( about $ 20). When I had an 8G Nano, I used that in windows xp. It worked better IMHO.
@abrli
Yeah, the PC version is total shit.
But the Mac OS version isn't particularly good either.
The Zune software is pretty good and gets better and better. It might replace Windows Media Player in the next Windows version, as they're busy adding all the features of WMP to the Zune software.
Anyway, on the PC, both Windows Media Player and Zune software are much better than iTunes, which is slow and buggy as hell. On the Mac, iTunes is OK, but like WMP on Windows being replaced by Zune, a lighter replacement for iTunes on the Mac wouldn't be a bad idea.
@dedparrot Guys all iTunes, whether pc or mac, is awful. If your trying to deny that, then your a bigger fanboy than you think.
Nope. Both iTunes and iPhoto seem to be craptacular on the Mac. They have this nasty habit of going on a long vacation when they are scanning new files. If you are (re)importing a large collection of some sort you might as well leave your machine alone for a good long while.
iTunes on a genuine Mac doesn't seem any better than iTunes in a Windows VM.
It's a shame that Apple has actively worked to make newer ipod type devices unusable in alternate sync applications.
@dedparrot
I've never installed iTunes on any of my PCs after seeing it on other computers. I purchase and download music from Amazon and play music on the Zune software (which I really like), Winamp, or Foobar if I am using my headphones.
@abrli Makes sense.
Step 1: Get everyone to buy an iPod
Step 2: Make iTunes good on a Mac and suck balls on Widows
Step 3: People notice that their music exp would be better on Mac
Step 4: Apple rules the world
WM7 had better bring it because I've been holding out for it.
@abrli
I have noticed this as well. iTunes works really really well on my mac. Runs like legless hamster on my Windows machine. I swear its deliberate!
@dedparrot
I use Media Monkey on win.. love it..
@MoonWalkerCTE: No, it's that we don't all have computers made by Apple.
Just as there are a number of MS products that don't run as well on OS X, Apple software like iTunes and Quicktime have been equally crappy on Windows. That's just the way it is. Whether deliberate or a side effect of putting less than optimal resources into software for 'the competitor' (which in itself is deliberate, I know), it sucks for the end user.
@Hobsie No, its not iTunes, Windows just sucks.
@dedparrot Just because its 2 years old doesnt mean its fast. What are the specs thats what matters. I have no problem with itunes whatsoever in terms of speed apart from a lagspike when i connect my iphone.
@dedparrot
Article forgot to say "on Windows".
I've never had a problem with iTunes in OS X. For that matter, I've never had problems with it in Windows, but the conventional wisdom says it sucks on that platform. I'll take the word of more experienced iTunes Windows users on that one.
@aria
ya, thats so logical. apple makes a product for windows and it sucks, so clearly thats windows fault. its not like there are other media players that run on less than a 1/5th of the processor/ram compared to itunes. nope...no winamp, no foobar, no vlc, no kmplayer etc etc etc
for the record, i use winamp for audio and kmplayer for video.
@dedparrot I like winamp, and it has a bunch of really cool skins.
@dedparrot
Mine really isn't that bad under Windows. Steady right at about 50MB RAM and ~2% CPU during playback.
Is that too much?
@dedparrot
Yeah, iTunes sucks on Windows. But, do you wanna know what I do? I open iTunes once a day to update my podcasts and sync them to my old iPod Nano. Done.
I only add music to my iPod maybe a couple times a month, so that doesn't bother me either. I never spend any serious amount of time in iTunes... I don't need to.
And I've never *listened* to music using iTunes. If I wanna hear a song, I navigate to my collection of songs, organized into folders by artist and album, and play them in Winamp.
iTunes is just what I use to sync my iPod. Nothing more. Does it suck that iTunes is required? Yes... but it's hardly a deal-breaker.
I love how people say that dragging 'n dropping is better... and for some people it might be. But, I can't imagine the iPod gaining so much momentum in the general population without software like iTunes to make it all work. Most people don't know how to organize any of their documents and pictures anyway... can you imagine how messy their music collection would be?
And things like the iTunes Store would have been a mess if it wasn't for the iTunes software. Imagine someone paying for a song... but they lose it because it gets saved to some location on their computer without them knowing it. Send a non-techie friend an email attachment and see what they do with it... it will probably get saved to the Desktop along with months of other browser downloads. You gotta remember that most people know nothing about computers... but you expect them to keep track of 1000 songs. Look at your friends' photo collections and see what I mean.
If you're reading Engadget, you probably know how to properly organize your files. But, most people don't.
@Rakielis
songbird does but it's still not that mature...
@dedparrot
My best friend and his spouse both have Mac's and I constantly see their systems run like crap on iTunes and any other piece of software. I'm like "you dog on me for using Windows for this?" I just don't argue. I cant stand iTunes whether it's on a Mac or PC. I respect that they really changed the way people buy music (if it weren't for them we might not have AmazonMP3, Zune Marketplace, etc for music) but the software is crap.
@abrli
Yeah dude i'm in your camp. Since itunes inception, i've never, EVER had an issue with it.
I'm sure they are talking about the pc version. I mean, they HAVE to be.
@dedparrot
Not all of us want a minimal music player that looks like it was designed in 2000. What are you doing on your computer that you need to be so conservative? I use Windows 7 with Aero, iTunes, and many other programs simultaneously and I don't have much of a problem. My laptop is 2 years old.
I really really REALLY want MS to come with something REALLY good and game changing to knock Apple from its pedestal. A wake up call if you will. and this is coming from a lifelong user/owner of Apple products and stock.
@Bixmen Apple may be doing it to themselves. iPad, really?
@Bixmen Yeah, because Microsoft has such a track record of delivering game changing, earth shattering technologies, and on time.
I don't know which collective is sadder, the ones who keep on rooting for the 800lb gorilla (apple) or the ones who keep on hoping the blue whale (microsoft) does a 360 on a dime to show the gorilla.
@Bixmen
Boohooo, Apple is #1 at something, so let's root for MSFT to knock them down! Boo! Down with Apple! Boo!
Where's that PC-Free Engadget button?
@Kid Red
Actually, I just think iTunes is annoying with it's lack of 3rd party support, outdated windows (modal dialogs), lack of cocoa, and terrible movie playback.
@tterremmotto
Now, about that 800-pound gorilla thing....
@tterremmotto
Competition forces the gorilla and the whale to get better at what they do!!
I think this could be the rebuilding of Microsoft. I mean Balmer and the team have done an exceptional jobeso far. As apple are steadily going backwards Microsoft are steadily going forward.
Zune
Xbox
Windows 7
And hopefully WinMo7.
I was really excited for the iPad but jobs shot me in the balls. I think the iPhone is let down for me Personally because of the way apple goes around things. Although there's a good chance I may end up owning an iPhone if they make a good phone this year I'm more likly to head for WinMo 7 if its as good as I want to be.
The Microsoft-apple Wars are back on and I fro one am really looking forward to being a consumer over the next year
@kris120890 It's nice to dream isn't it? Zune is a flop. You don't see it because you like it a lot but the industry numbers don't lie. WinMo7 will have its captive audience but it might be too little too late and it will have to be purchased by handset makers while Android is free.
You have to decide if you are Microsoft fanboy or a Ballmer fanboy. If you really are rooting for Microsoft, you should be clamoring for a new CEO. Ballmer is not the one. He might have been okay as a number two hatchet man type of fellow, but as the top guy, his vision is either nonexistent or extremely faulty.
@Unverified User
why do I have to be a fanboy to like something. Because I'm not a fanboy of apple?
@kris120890 "I think this could be the rebuilding of Microsoft. I mean Balmer and the team have done an exceptional jobeso far. As apple are steadily going backwards Microsoft are steadily going forward."
Are you retar -- oops, I mean intellectually challenged? Look at the MSFT share price over the past ten years and then explain what you see in terms of Ballmer doing an "exceptional" job. LOL
@(Unverified)
"@kris120890 It's nice to dream isn't it? Zune is a flop. You don't see it because you like it a lot but the industry numbers don't lie."
So is OSX, Macs, Apple TV, MacBook Air, and perhaps the iPAd too using that standard.
"WinMo7 will have its captive audience but it might be too little too late and it will have to be purchased by handset makers while Android is free."
Also, Android is not "free". It is controlled by Google at the price for handset makers not having to buy a licensing fee.
And can you people please stop with this "too little too late" BS? Do you seriously think all of the people that will own smartphones HAVE one? What type of crooked nonsense leads one to such a conclusion is beyond me.
@Ed T
Like I care about Share Prices.
Look at apples they've been quite consistent but then look at their products.
iPod touch = crap compared to most other PMPs.
iPod Shuffle = crap
Apple TV = Just plain crap
Macbook Air = crap.
@Ed T he was refering to the great job they have done with improving thier products (which imo they have) not how much money they made