Windows 7's European browser ballot screen revealed, rolling out next week
By Vlad Savov 
posted February 19th 2010 8:12AM
posted February 19th 2010 8:12AM
posted February 19th 2010 8:12AM
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You happy now, EU? Pfffft!!!
@aubreyq
what's wrong with it? just because you don't need it, doesn't mean that this wouldn't significantly help bring other users attention to the issue who aren't as computer savvy. more types of people use computers than people like you you know.
@safe travels
microsoft is selling their own software, they should be able to bundle whatever they want with it. the eu is being asinine about it because opera throws hissy fits like a preteen drama queen. since 8, ie isn't too bad of a browser anymore (not that i would ever use it, just that it's not as bad as all you "M$" haters make it out to be).
@aubreyq - I'm really not a Microsoft hater, but they deserve this and more for their craptastic IE6 alone. The fact that that fossil still holds back the evolution of the web is just extremely annoying, as anybody who ever designed a reasonably complex website can tell you.
@Wildman
Its not really a bad browser now but its just really really slow and tend to come last in alot of browser tests... buts it still better than IE6
@Wildman .. I think the problem was IE6 was so bad that it was holding back progress on the web.
@aubreyq
Yes we are. Moreover, we don't need to put antidepressants into our cocaine anymore.
@Wildman Agreed.... Microsoft should sell whatever they want. The EU should quit acting draconian and let the market dictate what people select.
This is so ridculous.... build a better mouse trap if you don't like the options.
Normally I would be against Microsoft leveraging their operating system to have an unfair advantage with other products, but I don't think that's the case here. They're not doing anything to prevent users from finding and installing other browsers. They're not doing anything to negatively impact the functionality or performance of those browsers.
I don't think Microsoft should be forced to advertise or recommend other people's products.
@engadgethead
They weren't forced at all. They just chose this over paying $800M fine for something they did before.
@safe travels
I think this is completely retarded. I fully agree that MS overstepped their bounds by integrating IE with windows, but now that it's separate, they should be allowed to ship it free with every copy of Windows and not have to advertise the others for free. If Opera, Mozilla, Google, etc want their browser offered on a preloaded computer, they should have to pay for it.
@safe travels
Microsoft shouldn't be treated like a public utility. Their a private company that should be allowed to create their product as they see fit. Punishing them for coercive tactics should be in the form of paying a fine; not revising their product.
I think people should become more aware of their computer usage.. but then those people think I should care more what say, my shoes look like, or any other exchange of values. "should" rarely dictates reality.
@reader1
I'm sorry, I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft, but that kind of logic is just plain stupid. Shipping an operating system without a browser would be shipping an unfinished product. You don't see anyone getting mad at car companies for "bundling" exhaust systems or radios or speakers when those products are also sold by third parties.
It is up to the third party to have their product stand on it's own merit.
@reader1
You're kidding, right?
I hope that everyone who is arguing that the EU is right in this realizes the consequences of decisions like this. Every time you think about complaining how prices in euros are at parity with prices for the same object in dollars, even though the euro is worth more than the dollar. Operating in Europe incurs all kinds of costs like this from the EU and it's just that much more expensive for companies to operate in Europe. So you go ahead and enjoy you're browser ballots and your forced competition.
@reader1
Yet, Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly in browser share. So maybe this is more about a European software developer wanting a little help from their government for their own product's inability to compete.
@reader1 Monopoly in browsers?
IE current has the same "marketshare" as the iPod.
Should the EU force Apple to show you other mp3 players when you go to an Apple store?
@PBB I don't think he is. LOL
@reader1 So that alleviates everything eh? A comparison to the Auto industry.
@Wildman being a good browser is not about how well you surf the web it is about how compliant you are to standard and IE is getting better but it is still not on par with others, its true most users cant tell the difference but for web developers it can be a nightmare, imagine W3C standards being like applying standards to cars and roads, and the browsers are the roads, IE doesn't follow the rules its like making the lanes to small, or deciding that traffic can drive on the other side of the road.
@safe travels: what's wrong with it? In general principle, if the EU was making this a policy on ALL operating systems, then maybe they'd have a leg to stand on. This is certainly as much about the personalities behind the decision and personal grudges against MS (it's a long, storied history).
I'm no fan of IE, but a governmental body DICTATING that a company has to do this just points to the capriciousness of the EU re: Microsoft.
When they force OS X and
@safe travels there can only be one!
@reader1
Did that stop Google from releasing a hell of an awesome browser? Did that stop me or 100s of thousands - if not millions - of folks from installing Google Chrome on their machines? Did that prevent Apple from releasing a Win version of Safari? I didn't think so...
This is plain BS!
@reader1 ok, so here's a [slightly] better comparison.
It's like Apple being forced to advertise other music stores and programs when you buy an iPod. They have a 'monopoly' by making iTunes the default (using the logic presented by some here). While there are other options for acquiring music, but actually Apple has a lot more control over the user, since an iPod isn't compatible to sync with any music software of my choice.
My point is, if you buy the product, you buy all of it. Microsoft has every right to ship with IE, just as Apple does to have iTunes. Just because the product comes with it doesn't mean I'm absolutely forced to use it.
@safe travels IE is slow.
@LAY They *did* force Apple to stop restricting iTunes media to iPhone only.
@Bean
I think you are right on.
Why aren't we offered alternatives to iTunes when an iPod is installed? There are tons of options out there for loading your iPod with content. To be fair, I would expect the EU to make mandatory a ballot screen that includes Media Monkey and others.
After that we can get into the OSX install debate. Where is the ballot screen that let's users select something other than Safari?
@LAY
Nope. Apple should be forced to license fairplay to anyone that cares to use it. Their content format should not be a proprietary thing that they can use to artificially bolster their marketshare with. Their DRM shouldn't trap their customers.
It's exactly the same problem as proprietary binary API standards except is is entirely unecessary and highly artificial. At least the Win32 compatability barrier has some real reason for existing.
At least someone somewhere is being true to the spirit of that particular bit of American Law.
@Wildman Amen to that.
While its actually quite useful, and I don't oppose it in and of itself, any rational person knows that it is unadulterated BS to place one set of rules on one company and another on the rest.
Any such laws need to be universal in their implementation.
@Bean
Firstly, Microsoft didn't invent Internet, as Apple developed iPod together with iTunes store.
Secondly, when you buy 'internet' you are not forced to use one browser or OS.
@Wildman
Is, MS is in fact selling, which means, that after it's sold it belongs to whoever bought it. So, it seems only natural, that the end user has the liberty, and is informed of all the options, as many don't even know that there are other options... So, in my point of view, it's still not perfect, cause you still have to keep IE in your hard drive (god knows why...). But it's a start...
What the EU is doing is totally uncalled for. As a European citizen it makes me ashamed at all of this. Windows is Microsoft product and MS shouldn't have to install anything from anyone else. Why the hell should they make space for their competitors? Screw Opera - after they snitched to the EU, I will never install their browser out of principle. The fact that Chrome has an even bigger market share in a much smaller time shows how crap Opera is doing. Maybe thats payback for Opera being a paid product when they first came out - looks like they shot themselves in the foot and now they are calling the waambulance.
I'm not saying that Firefox and Chrome are not good browsers - they certainly are, but it is not justified in forcing one company to advertise another companies products. Whats next Burger King posters in a McDonalds? Under the EU don't be so surprised! Besides IE8 is nowhere near as bad as IE6 is. Sure IE8 has its issues too, but its a much better and safer browser.
What the stupid blind EU commission don't see is the rise of Apple. If MS has to do a browser ballot then so should Apple. In addition, Apple and their iPod/iTunes connection should also be broken. Apple may not have the biggest market share, but they are increasing year on year AND as a matter of principle they should be held accountable to the same standards as Microsoft.
Screw the EU commission and this bullshit decision. A truly dark day for us.
@engadgethead
Why is Microsoft's advantage "unfair"? They earned through smart business and decent to good products a substantial market share, and are leveraging that to get their browser out there. I haven't heard anyone complain that airlines have "unfair" advantages because they choose to sell peanuts on the airplane, but don't give a ballot of 10 peanut brands to each traveler to choose from.
If all these other browsers are so great, people would use them. And people do use the great ones. People who don't care, don't care, and they stick with IE. So what?!
@reader1
Wow you really aren't doing too well in this argument.
@adykhu55 Microsoft's browser advantage is entirely due to the fact that it is free and preinstalled on the Microsoft operating system, which is installed on nine out of ten computers.
As far as I know though, Microsoft has never tried to prevent the installation of any other browser.
It is also outright ludicrous to tell company A that they have to go by rules A and company B, C, and D that they can play by a different set of rules. Either everyone should have to include a browser ballot for all compatible third party browsers, or no one should. That is not too much to ask.
@aubreyq
Yeah, I'm happy. Now I can actively show my support for Internet Explorer!
Cheers from Denmark!
@NewL last I checked, IE8 has been out for a while. Is it MS fault that users don't update? BTW, if you never change the oil on your car, and the engine fails, is it the manufacturers fault?
@aubreyq
Monopolies don't help anyone. They aren't good for competition and make it harder for better products to get into the market. If browsers were chosen by everyone based on merit rather than default, Firefox would have the market share that IE has, but it doesn't.
The complaint isn't that Microsoft has a monopoly on browsers, but that it has a monopoly in the OS market and this is being used to ensure big numbers of IE users. For most people Windows is the only real option (or they don't know any better) and getting more of them to install other browsers based on merit is a good thing for competition. Most will click on the big blue 'e' anyway because it is what they know. Perhaps they will install several and stick with the best.
@aubreyq
seriously, I hope nobody chooses opera and goes with anythig else but them. They only way they can increase their market share is by crying to the EU
@Shan
I know how you feel, its things like this and the EU's banning of the sales of 'wonky veg' that makes me sad to be part of it...
I cant wait to see Apple offer an option screen for music players when installing an ipod, in fact, i cant wait to see their options for when installing a web browser on a new Mac (lol, yeah right, sure they will, right after they've made it so you HAVE to listen to adverts in-between music you've paid for...) And you Ubuntu, i want you to give options too!
Stupid EU imposing stupid biased rules...
@engadgethead Listen you fool, Opera is NOT even from the European Union (EU)!!! And the EU is *not* the government of Europe.
@NewL Never mind that when IE6 was released, everyone was rejoicing. It just hadn't been updated in so long, and users weren't adopting more standards compliant browsers on their own... that has little or nothing to do with Microsoft.
@Wildman
This. I don't understand how Microsoft bundling a browser, media player, etc with their OS is anti competitive. Them having to advertise competitor's browsers is really unfair. Especially since Apple doesn't get the same scrutiny, and their situation is even worse, at least Microsoft doesn't sell the the whole computer.
@adykhu55
You didn't actually read my post did you?
@Shan
The worst part is they're doing this with OUR money. OUR money forces company A to market company B, C, D and E's product, while company D also happens to have a major OS, and also happens to have its browser BUT doesn't have to offer people a choice.
@safe travels
You have got be joking? IE is just awful.
@Wildman The problem with that argument is that the reason this is even being done is that ms originally bullied netscape into oblivion by wrapping ie around the core of its operating sysytem making it all but uninstallable. So ms is being punished. Boo hoo.
kudos eu and keep up the good work, at least someone tries to keep ms accountable
@Wildman If MS wanted to bundle stuff, they should have bundled MS Office for free instead IE
@NewL What you don't understand is, no matter how much we hate IE6, can you guess why it became so widely used browser? Because "when" it came out, it was one of the best browsers to use to get things done quickly and it came bundled! People didn't see the need for another browser until they noticed how outdated it had become now and how it was security holes ridden, slow and unstable. Even MS moved on with IE7 and honestly IE8 is not that bad. It's definitely not as good as Mozilla which I use all the time (I don't like Chrome it's still buggy - even google docs works buggily on it - and forget safari!)
MS doesn't "deserve" anything! It's a competitive market and products evolve at different paces. I support the ballot screen and I think it'll be helpful for people who don't know other browsers exist or how to get them. But I really don't see a point when people say MS "deserved" it! Heck they tried and came out with the best they could and still keep improving it! It's the competition that is slow (Linux - so popular yet so behind) or arrogant (OS X - the GOD OS) and they "deserve" to be hated for being that way! If windows were that bad, Linux/OS X would have been ruling the world right now!
@tdogdfw
The problem was that people weren't selecting, as a result IE6 took over the internet for 5 years. Stopping any sort of progress in web standards. I don't like this approach.. whats next, force OEM's to add an OS selection screen at boot?
I would much rather force oem's to pick a browser or ask the users when the order the PC and leave out the strain on users. OEM's would choose chrome, opera or firefox if they had a choice before IE6 took over the world.