It's unusual for a company to publicly admit its shortcomings -- particularly a company as big, proud, and resolute as Nokia generally seems to be -- but an
All About Symbian /
Mobile Industry Review joint interview with Anssi Vanjoki, vice president of markets, at
MWC last week painted a very different picture with regard to Espoo's views on the maligned
N97. Though he says that the phone absolutely met the company's goals for sales volume and revenue, it was a "tremendous disappointment in terms of the experience quality for the consumers and something [they] did not anticipate." This isn't a sob story, though: he uses the opportunity to note that they've completely closed the gap on software quality for the flagship device, launching new firmware first in Norway where the response has been positive. Considering that the N97 was announced way back in 2008, there's realistically nothing Nokia can do to give the phone a second wind atop the lineup, but Vanjoki seems genuinely convinced that they've learned some hard lessons and swallowed some tough pills throughout its life cycle -- and those lessons will bear fruit when
Symbian^3-based products roll around. Here's hoping.
posted February 23rd 2010 2:18PM
Yup. The N97 was a banana skin which explains the indecent haste with which the N97 mini was released.
It's good to see further evidence that Nokia have learned their hard lessons, parked the arrogance and are now looking to seriously compete at the top end again.
@MarkAnderson
I agree. If more companies would park their pride and listen more closely to their consumers when things go wrong, the tech world would be a better place.
@MarkAnderson
But, the iPhone came out in 2007. THAT should have shown Nokia the light. Not.. the ... what? Some clunky piece of crap they came out with that was loaded up with tech specs, but weird and fugly to use.
Too late. I'm never buying another Nokia again after using the n97 for 6 months. Posting this from my Google Nexus One.
@p3t3rh
never say never....they may make you eat those words
@spartandre217:
I have a Nokia E71. And while it is a fine phone, it isn't as polished as other modern smartphones. Even the new version of symbian 3 that they unveiled the other week still underwhelmed me. It seemed like nothing more than a face-lift for s60v5. It still looked as though it takes way too many clicks to get certain tasks done.
I'm certainly not going to say "never", but I'm definitely not buying a Nokia phone in the near future. In the summer, I plan on moving on to either an iPhone or an unlocked motorola milestone (if i can get my hands on one for a reasonable price).
@Butler "It still looked as though it takes way too many clicks to get certain tasks done."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGyZYrix9g&feature=player_embedded Skip ahead to 0:52
It sucks that Nokia didn't pull through for you on the E71, though. You won't be disappointed with the Milestone.
@Butler Easy man...
You saw an youtube video and you are judging it by that? Come on.
And still, E71 is a very capable device for its market segment. Just the E72 beats it. If you are complaining of the lack of media features, eye candy and so on you should have clearly chosen something else. And then it comes to the consumer, the consumer should be wise and buy exactly what he wants.
@p3t3rh
Only a fool expected so much from the N97. It was a model running without a dedicated GPU, like previous flagships N82/N95 8gb. You should've researched it better. Why you think so many waited for N900?
N97 is a great device now, and stable, just not a top line offering, and not as expensive as before.
They should load Android on all their phones and drop Symbian and they would see their revenue and customer satisfaction increase overnight.
Symbian is still the number 1 choice of my Grandmother's phone OS and I'm sure my grandmother isn't alone.
@metaesapuet
My Grandma just got an iPhone, yours is not hip enough.
@treats
that in and of itself is quite a silly statement.
why drop an entire ecosystem for an operating system that accounts for less than 5% of the smartphone market.
@treats Symbian doesn't require a 1ghz CPU that STILL CAN'T MAKE EVERYTHING GO SMOOTHLY.
But Android is clearly superior anyway, right?
@Sarig
Funny my Hero has a 528 Mhz processor and since November's update I have had no stuttering or speed problems at all.
My old N70 & E61 were both slow as shite though.
@Sarig
Welcome to 2010 and beyond, if you think Apple, RIM and Google won't keep taking large pieces of Symbian's market share over the next 5 years I have a bridge to sell you.
They made Symbian open source and added functions like free turb by turn because they see what is coming.
@treats What a terrible idea. We should think about how much DAMAGE this option would do to Nokia. How 'bout we list the pros-and-cons.
[Pros]
You're happy
About 100 other Android fanboys are happy
[Cons]
Legacy is totally dead
Phones running Symbian won't be able to upgrade to Android. Sorry, brand new Nokia X6 owner
All the developers who put their time, MONEY, and effort into this platform did it in vain
Wonder how all those people living in 70 different countries will be able to use the data-dependent, U.S. Google Maps Navigation.
Firmware updates for your 5800? Why waste your time? Your phone is obsolete now.
"They made Symbian open source and added functions like free turb by turn because they see what is coming."
So, that would make it even stupider to drop Symbian and switch to Android. We alllready know that RIM, Google, and Apple are gaining heat. It's a no-brainer. But what's really a no-brainer, meaning "no brain at all" would be to drop this open-source, free turn-by-turn nav software platform because a couple people on Engadget have a crystal ball and a bridge on sale.
@N900
+1 sir...
@treats
Just because you and a few others like Android, doesn't mean we all do. I certainly do not see the appeal.
@fourthletter
So you think you can compare N70 with S60 3rd from year 2006 and HTC Hero with Android from year 2009 with each other.. equally? Today? OK
So, did I miss something here? Was Hero first with Android OS? No. Was N70 first with S60 3rd. No.
With N97 it is the same thing it was with N95. Wait about 1..2 years after the launch, you get a decent software.
And what comes to N900. I'm using one, it's little buggy, but the main difference is that there is a community working with this. We have seen Ubuntu mobile 9.04 LXDE running on N900.. so, there might be hope with Nokia.
@jmi
N70 was a S60 2nd Edition handset, and not even its flagship. That was the N90. N7x models were midrange at that time.
"With N97 it is the same thing it was with N95. Wait about 1..2 years after the launch, you get a decent software."
Try months, not a year. N97 hasn't even been out a year yet...
@treats
No, you have it all wrong. Google should drop Android and go with Symbian. Millions of new users of Google services overnight.
@treats As much as I love Android, that would be a very wrong move. A smarter move would be to introduce a single Android model to gauge consumer response. Where I live, Symbian OS is very popular with most people preferring only the iPhone OS and this kind of move would push people to other platforms.
The N97 was abysmal. They pushed WAY too hard, and it hurts to see this happen. The Mini was a better phone, but some were too scared to buy it because it had the words "N97" before it.
Big N is picking themselves up and dusting off. I can't forgive them for the N97, but here's to a new year.
@N900 I agree.
I still aplaud the model from where you've taken your username though. Not only did they release a high-tech gadget, they were even blunt enough to admit it wasn't for the masses, instead of trying to sell it off as the next big thing.
@N900 Nokia deserves some of the hate because the N97 "panic move" was so wrong.
Its good to see a company admitting its own mistake/s instead of blaming others.
@KGB Indeed... And I think it was about time to happen.
Until before the N97, Nokia was doing really a very lousy job with its handset division: Not giving enough importance to service integration, touch screen technology, polishes and list could go on...
I think the shock of dipping market share and and the momentum Apple gained really took the finns by surprise and that was good. Now they are back on track, finally, with many new technologies to integrate, services and quality is back on the table.
Every technology company passes through this process, where they think they are too mighty. But just few can come out of it alive. And Nokia is incredible in doing it so.
Kudos Nokia
@Mr w00t said:
"@KGB Indeed... And I think it was about time to happen.
Until before the N97, Nokia was doing really a very lousy job with its handset division: Not giving enough importance to service integration, touch screen technology, polishes and list could go on..."
Actually, Nokia basically paused its hardware division, putting money into Ovi integration, which paid off. Now they have Ovi Store, Ovi Maps, Nokia Messaging, Files on Ovi, Ovi Share, Ovi Chat/VOIP, and Ovi Contacts integration in all devices. This is a stream that will keep them profitable for years to come.
Nokia sales more touchscreens than anyone, and supports resistive and capacitive screens in both OSes. Now that their OS revamp and services strategies are hardened, they've jumped back on the hardware. We all know Nokia leads in that aspect when motivated. Before 2007, they always had the fastest procs and most forward looking tech. And the N900 returns them to that prominence.
Those shocked they fell back missed the report with OPK announced they'd be doing exactly what they did over the last 2 years, and concede share temporarily while it did so. It wasn't incompetence, just a purposely directed temporary refocus. They gambled that none of the competition could make any meaningful inroads on their marketshare, and they were right. Still #1 by a landslide.
"I think the shock of dipping market share and and the momentum Apple gained really took the finns by surprise and that was good. Now they are back on track, finally, with many new technologies to integrate, services and quality is back on the table."
They weren't shocked, and said Apple would have a hot seller on its hands for the US market, which needed a My First Smartphone focused on ease of use to indoctrinate them to smartphones like the rest of the world. It wasn't Apple that did most damage anyway, but RIM and Samsung anyway. Apple was in there, but it was far from an Apple only thing. In fact, Apple has done little internationally in comparison.
"Every technology company passes through this process, where they think they are too mighty. But just few can come out of it alive. And Nokia is incredible in doing it so."
Amen. Nokia is very smart, and has an enviable position.
@KGB
And this is not the first time either; they openly admitted that sidetalkin' and Ngage in general was flawed, and they weren't defensive about it either.
They learn from their mistakes, and don't try to arrogant. I like that. It raises Goodwill and confidence among the people, which why Nokia has such a huge marketshare...
Respect Nokia
If they dared be as radical as Microsoft, they'd bury Symbian and start over.
@Stick
microsoft can afford to do that because they have no marketshare to alienate :-)
@Stick
Microsoft just rewrote Windows Phone UI on top of newer a Windows CE; while Nokia is rewriting S60 UI on top of a newer Symbian OS.
What's the difference?
@GeceBekcisi
they cant do sumthing as radical as a complete overhaul akin to windows phone series 7 because there are a lot of ppl that wouldnt take kindly to such a massive change. furthermore, a lot of business people have concerns over the viability of windows phone 7 series for a business phone purposes. seeing as how these constitute a large portion of windows users this is a legitimate concern that you quite easily overlooked in order to justify your point.
symbian is similar but different in the sense the UI paradigms will be changed on a more incremental basis.
While it is great to see a company finally admit it's failings, it came way way too late for Nokia however. I got sucked into the nightmare that is the N97 in June 2009 .. Even after so many major and minor updates to the device it's still rubbish and only marginally usable for anything. I have to agree with others, I won't be buying Nokia again (not sure about Never, but it will be a bloody long time before I ever give them any more of my money).
I find it sort of funny when in the same story they claim they have learned the lesson... Then mention they're still using Symbian. How is that learning your lesson Nokia? That's repeating the same mistake!
@Hellios
Symbian^3 is not your father's Symbian.
@Hellios
The Symbian that you see as a fault, makes them sell more smartphones QoQ for the last year: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11049_Nokia_Q4_2009_results_converge.php
So?
@Hellios
Agreed. Symbian sucks. The only reason the sales were so high is due to brand loyalty and Symbian's popularity in europe. Symbian as it is now (v5) and has been for the past few years (v3) is pitiful compared to other OS's out there (in my opinion). The GUI is ugly, old, antiquated, and just plain hard to use. They tried to copy everyone else and eventually added kinetic scrolling (and a couple of other features that were present in a lot of other devices beforehand) to some of the models, but there are still tons of lacking features.
The main problem here is clear -- Nokia used to be an innovator. They used to be the ones coming up with the cool stuff and beating everyone else to the punch. Now all they do is copy. They don't take risks anymore. They releas half-assed products with half-finished software. When was the last time Nokia itself, or shit even Symbian in general were the first ones to come up with a new and exciting feature? It's been so long I can't even think of it. I'd seriously like to see them start taking risks and coming up with stuff that no one else has come up with already. Seriously -- brand loyalty only gets a company so far.
@DoctarPeppar said:
"The only reason the sales were so high is due to brand loyalty and Symbian's popularity in europe."
And why, in the most mature smartphone market, where consumers have more choice, better, more even subsidies, and can get high end models free on contract, and they demand the most from a smartphone, is Symbian still most popular? Google and Apple are nearly as big brands, too. What did they do wrong?
Did you also overlook that Nokia is #1, with Symbian, in EVERY market, save the US? That the only markets where Nokia isn't #1, they're #2, and single percentage points behind the leader? Maybe there's something the US, Apple, and Android are missing?
"Symbian as it is now (v5) and has been for the past few years (v3) is pitiful compared to other OS's out there (in my opinion). The GUI is ugly, old, antiquated, and just plain hard to use. They tried to copy everyone else and eventually added kinetic scrolling (and a couple of other features that were present in a lot of other devices beforehand) to some of the models, but there are still tons of lacking features."
For a neophyte to smartphones, this may be true. But most of the world has been on smartphones, and Symbian is familiar to them. So just because your intelligence is substandard for the world standard doesn't mean they should dumb anything down for you. Get an iPhone, learn mobilism, and come back later. They'll still be out front, running the game and waiting for you when you graduate.
"The main problem here is clear -- Nokia used to be an innovator. They used to be the ones coming up with the cool stuff and beating everyone else to the punch. Now all they do is copy."
Please elaborate on this!! We just saw them do an album transfer in 10 secs! Isn't that innovation?
"When was the last time Nokia itself, or shit even Symbian in general were the first ones to come up with a new and exciting feature?"
How about rooted Linux distro out of the box? Open standards OS in Maemo? Marrying a desktop app framework to a mobile in Qt, akin to the first phone running Java? That not innovative enough? The real question is when have Apple or Google done so?
@DoctarPeppar
"The GUI is ugly, old, antiquated, and just plain hard to use. They tried to copy everyone else and eventually added kinetic scrolling (and a couple of other features that were present in a lot of other devices beforehand) to some of the models, but there are still tons of lacking features.
"
Ugly, old and antiquated? OK maybe. So? No big deal.
Hard to use? Sometimes yes. Maybe a bit complicated for the neophytes and the lazy people who can't be bothered to spend 2 minutes to figure out something. But freedom and possibilities often come at the expense of complexity. Sure, this can and should be improved. But again, no big deal because it's far far from being too complicated or unusable. If you know how to use a computer, you're fine.
Now, tons of lacking features? Please enlighten me if you're not talkin our your ass.
You have to appreciate companies that aren't all spin and glamor. They are actually honest with their customers.
"he uses the opportunity to note that they've completely closed the gap on software quality for the flagship device, launching new firmware first in Norway where the response has been positive."
And yet the new firmware in available in the UK for black unbranded handsets, but not white ones.. Nokia never learn anything beyond what they can get away with.. 300+ variations of firmware for a flagship device means no one get's the service that is so often expected and received from other vendors.. they're not going to sort it out.. terrible, terrible behavior
@7710user
This is so true, Nokia puts out way too many variations of the same firmware and restrict users as to what they can update on the same exact phone just different territory. What's even more annoying when dealing with Nokia phone and Symbian is the lack of multi-lingual support on your phone even if you have bought your phone directly from Nokia. Why must I must be punished and not be able to have Chinese and Japanese reading and writing capabilities just because I bought the phone from Nokia USA?
@fnineone
Don't blame Nokia, blame the carriers that want branded, localized firmware. Buy unlocked models and use generic firmware and stay happy. How is Nokia to blame for carriers not getting firmware out there??
@christexaport
And when nokia release branded firmware weeks BEFORE the unbranded one... like the vodafone branded firmware being available before the unbranded one in the UK?
And why have a different firmware between chassis colour?
No, they are to blame.. partly for allowing networks to screw with firmware and definitely for failing to support unbranded handsets with any modicum of respect
@fnineone
When you get your phone from a telco, YOU DON'T OWN IT. The telco does, they just let you use for a price, and let you keep it when the contract expires.
You want to use any firmware you want. BUY YOUR OWN PHONE, dont use the telcos phone!
@7710user
Nokia doesn't release firmwares, carriers do, in the case of branded handsets. Blame Voda, not Nokia. Why didn't they use the generic, and better, firmware anyway?