It's unclear how the data's being collected, but a handful of analysts have started backing away from Palm this week on some information that the phone's webOS debut on Verizon has proven something less than bombastic at the sales counter. Of course, it's no secret that Verizon has poured less money, time, and energy into its marketing of the
Pre Plus and
Pixi Plus than Sprint has with the original versions, but Palm and the market analysts following its progress may have been banking on the unspoken "if only this were on Verizon" factor to counteract that a bit. The biggest concern seems to be that Palm's on the cusp of being washed into irrelevancy by a massive Android push, with a couple stock downgrades and price target cuts making their way into the hearts and minds of the market makers. Again, it's not clear exactly where the Verizon sales figures are coming from -- and we'd be remiss in thinking that analysts always (or even usually) know what they're talking about -- but this could be an early sign that the tide is turning. Come on, Palm: more carriers, more hardware, more features.
posted February 24th 2010 6:53PM
@Ed T
now that stupid opinion. WinMo6.5 still strong as business platform, and WinMo7 show MS learn a lot from the popularity of iPhone. Very different from Palm that seem very confused where they want to go
Not losing money makes me happy.. loser
btw.. Its ignorant close-minded fanboys like yourself that allow me to make lots of money in the market. In case your curious, Im spending some of YOUR money on new 2-yr contracts for HD2/T-mobile and Supersonic/Sprint. Might event do a Nexus 1 on VZW just for kicks. haha
@ToniCipriani
btw.. Its ignorant close-minded fanboys like yourself that allow me to make lots of money in the market. In case your curious, Im spending some of YOUR money on new 2-yr contracts for HD2/T-mobile and Supersonic/Sprint. Might event do a Nexus 1 on VZW just for kicks. haha
Its an utter shame when a company produces such a great product, and then proceeds to destroy it with business and marketing decisions...
i think a different form factor would bring in some interest. a nice big full touchscreen phone or something along the lines of the droid or touch pro 2 would be pretty sweet
For Palm to have a fighting chance, they need:
- FAST processor
- solid hardware
- marketing that doesn't make Palm shareholders punch walls
- virtual keyboard for horizontal web browsing
- keep their promise about Flash 10.1 (and advertise that feature!)
- Douche VZW reps recommending phones based on customers needs instead of telling everyone to get a Droid.
the reason they don't sell it with sim card
just like the iphone everybody buyin it from ebay for 600 or more $,
i have the iphone 3gs, and i love the palm pre plus too much even more than the iphone with it features
i would buy them both for me
although i will use the iphone more until there will be app on the palm pre plus, that if they sell with sim card and if it factory unlocked-even better
I believe the "mom" ads were targeted ads to capitalize on valentine's day sales. It may not have worked but it was not a bad idea IMHO.
@(Unverified)
Good idea. Poorly executed. Look at Apple's latest commercial about recording a baby's first steps. That's how you aim at moms.
@(Unverified) targeted adds aren't neccisarily a bad idea, but their choice of ad was horrible. They didn't make women want to ask for a pre, nor did they make anyone want to give it as a gift. All they did was give people the impression that if you aren't a goofy old lady, you'll have no use for the phone. I'll even go as far to say that those commercials hurt the public perception of the pre in an unrepairable way.
I like WebOS alot, I really do, it's just that the caliber of devices they are putting it on quite frankly aren't that great. I agree with the article though, I haven't seen ANY advertisements for the Pre\Pixi from verizon -- and I saw a million ads for the droid and the eris when those came out. The PrePlus is a great device -- love the ram upgrade, but there is so much lacking -- no microSD slot, crappy camera, no TV out even though the chip supports it (same as droid though, WHY!?) -- I guess I am too picky.
Still waiting for a phone that has 512MB of ram that can do 720p video @ 30fps (stable no frame loss) with a xenon flash that has a microSD slot, 720p HD out via HDMI, application multitasking, a front facing camera capable of video calling over data, VOIP support (SIP client via native dialer), WifiN, and voice recognition software for sending texts and answering emails \ etc.
Would love to see something like that running WebOS -- we all can dream I guess :P I don't think I'll be buying another phone until something like that comes out though. I don't think smartphones have caught up technologically to what they could and should be able to do yet, but that's just my opinion.
Palm tried to fight their way back into the smartphone fight but bad hardware choices I fear has doomed them...die palm...die
I love the webos. Love palm, but the pre just looks dated. The release on verizon left my scratching my head. Same freaking phone? No thanks. I was expecting new hardware. You can't rest on your laurels when you are #4
One very unofficial way to get a sense of the relative sales of the Palm Pre on Verizon as compared to the other Verizon smart phones, go to the Verizon website, pull up the list of smart phones, then look at the amount of user reviews for each phone.
The Storm 2 has 1100 reviews (avg. of 4.0 out of 5).
The DROID has a whopping 5697 reviews (avg. 4.5 out of 5)
The Palm Pre... 211 reviews (4.0 avg.).
Those numbers don't look good for the Pre.
3.7 inch screen + Snapdragon + WebOS
=
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
(Hi, small screens suck ass)
@Johnny Rockets
Those 3 will never come together... especially the Snapdragon part
@HerbieDerb
Aaaaaand.... why not?
@Johnny Rockets
Besides that they wont be around long enough unless someone buys them... no money to do it.
@HerbieDerb They have enough money to last them through to half of 2011. Do your research before spouting made-up facts.
I have been a loyal Palm user since the early Palm devices in the 1990's. I was ecstatic to see the first Palm phones and then the subsequent palm phones and finally the Pre...my bubble was busted!!! I actually bought it and returned it within the first 30 days in July of 2009...and started using my old Palm Treo again...it finally went swimming and drowned...so I decided to give the Palm Pre another chance...I regret returning.
Yes the multi-tasking is great however...every now and then I like to talk on it close to my face...it always hangs up. I can only talk on it while in speaker mode. I will admit the speaker works well. However, it is still a phone and it would be "nice" if It could be used as a talking device sometimes. I've got my fingers crossed for the next Palm device...even as loyal as I've been...I am hopeful that they have it all figured out by this Summer 2010...I'm almost DONE.
Look at these imbeciles that were ranking down mine and other's comments when we were negative on PALM back on 2/10/10. This comment ranking system silly to have ignorant users block out peoples comments. My comment which was originally 1st in that article was down-ranked so much that its no longer there. I wrote that the Pre going to ATT was a non-event.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/fcc-paper-trail-suggests-atandt-getting-pre-in-may/2#c25751417
@HerbieDerb
CRY. M04R. PL3X.
All you've done is troll; actually contribute something before whining that your comments got ranked down.
Verizon is the 'droid' network. It's over for palm now. Perhaps Sony Ericsson could buy them and create a distinctive line of smartphones attached to PSN with Walkman and cybershot features. Could work....
this seems like a repeat of 2years ago when analysis predicted that palm was absoloutley done and there was no light at the end of tunnel. Now palm's reputation is growing in the developer community, the pre and webos have one numerous awards, they have released 4 new phones(technically) on two carriers and are planning to release them on all carriers(including t mobile). Palm "reputation wise" used to be in apple's place before the iphone, feeding off of the whole "pda's can do any and everything" situation, and I do think looking at the company in that sense yes they are doing horrible.
But at the moment reputation wise to me they are in the same position that htc used to be before android(invisible to anyone that is not in the "techy" crowd) and in that sense I think there doing pretty good. They've sold millions of phones and have done a hell of a job with tending to any issues that they're little 1.0 device had, and keeping us entertained with new surprises.
all I am saying is we all knew the stock situation with palm wasn't going to change over night, I mean hell they are in quite the rut, but I do believe that this is temporary and that palm plans to sale new phone models and form factors(based on there history with past products).
Along with expanding there presence in the developer world, and delivering new features and surprises with the future firmware releases for webos. One thing we can all agree on though is that the advertising campaign for palm is terrible, I believe just by changing that, they'd get a boost in the stock market. How can people support a product they know nothing about?
To all those who are under the impression that a phone landing on Verizon equates to instant success let this be a reminder to you.
The younger generation will demand smarter better looking devices and will gravitate towards what's cooler even if the company or network those phones work on is not as big.
The RAZR and iPhone showed us that form factor rules the mass market despite the misgiving of those in rural areas who are stuck on one carrier or another.
I have written this before, and I will write it again:
Everyone is overlooking a critical factor:
I say that Palm's misfortune has very little to do with the Hardware, screen size or battery life...
Rather, I firmly believe that the reason that the Pre did not sell well on Sprint is because Sprint decided to "force" hundreds of thousands of their customers to pay double (or more) for their plans just to get the Pre. Who in their right mind is going to pay 4 or 5 times as much for a Family plan just to get the Pre?
I only wish that I had the statistics to back me up. There are a few smaller polls to back me up. For example, look here: http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180907
Please note that the argument that "AT&T and Verizon" charge more has no place here, because unlike ATT and Verizon, people have been with Sprint for years ONLY because of the pricing they offered. I've personally met at least 100 people who did not get the Pre, simply because they were not willing to leave their current plan.
Palm has been a disaster in their marketing campaign! They wanted to follow the strategy of steeve job or just willing to stay behind apple! Europe is rich of customers specially Uk! They wanted to give their phone to 02 only so that they create a hype to attract people to the new handset! Is will not happen! They need to expand their relationship with other carriers to promote their new palm pre plus or even pixi plus? Orange and vodafone or even 3 will do a better job than o2!
It's not going to sell well if you can't buy it. Come on Plam, please release it in Japan. You might want to market it to teenage girls (match the cover to your clothes) instead of grandmas.
They need to release an iPhone size and quality webOS phone. I really like webOS, I really don't like the Pre or Pixi's form factor... and I've owned both.
Palm Pre came out when my contract was almost up on AT&T, and I thought it would be the iPhone replacement I was looking for. I got it for a few days, but Sprint was just terrible in my area so I decided to return it, but the form factor and hardware quality of the Pre left much to be desired. So I decided to just upgrade from the iPhone 2G to the 3GS instead.
This December I lost my 3GS, and since I live in San Francisco(where AT&T is terrible), it was the perfect excuse to jump ship to verizon. I didn't want anything too expensive so I decided to give Palm another chance and took the Pixi. Needless to say, I wasn't too thrilled with my decision. Although it's perfect for texting, the screen is waaay too small for web browsing, not to mention the lack of specs botches some websites, can only handle maybe 2 or 3 intensive applications at a time, and they also leave out all the good apps from the Pixi for that very same reason. It just wasn't worth the hassle especially if I was gonna be paying $30 dollars for a data plan... I decided to go back to Verizon and exchange it for the Droid.
My point being, that if webOS was available in an iPhone/Nexus/Droid sized phone with a good processor and if they worked on the touch responsiveness, that would definitely be my phone of choice right now. That's also my biggest pet peeve with all touch phones besides the iPhone, the touchscreen responsiveness. It just seems to make a big difference. The Zune got it right, that's why I kinda wish Microsoft would make their own hardware to go along with Windows Phone 7, so they could get a high quality product out there. Since Palm has their own software and hardware as well, they should also work on their hardware quality.
I was in a VZW store just prior to the Palm's release. They were just winding up a huge push for "Buy one, get one free' on the Droid phones. Palm was late to the party and Droid captured the mindshare and saturated the market. By the time Palm came out, everybody had already bought their Droid phones. Can you say: "Palm who?"
I'm a Palm owner/fan, but I can't get behind what's happening to them (hardware and marketing wise) and its really depressing. I love what's happening with the vertically integrated Win Phone 7, my sadness comes from the fact that I wish it had been done by Palm instead of MS.
I got my Sprint Pre on day 1 and cut Palm some slack for about 4 months before I became convinced that WebOS was going to be the final blip on the long march to Palm, Inc.'s ultimate demise. They have had 4 MAJOR problems since rolling out the Pre and their slow, unremarkable updates are far too small an effort to solve the big problems.
1) It took a looooong time to start adding apps to the catalog, but even now with more than 2000 apps, almost all of them are lifestyle (and some games) with practically no productivity apps.
2) Palm has never adequately defined their target market. It's not hard core business users. It's not former customers with legacy data (a STUPID decision). It seems to be a small, poorly designed slice of new smartphone users. You'll often hear them refer to the "fat middle" which is basically a chunk of the market who they think are too dumb or lazy to research, and who will just buy something that looks cool or has some cool-sounding features. Seems like going after such a poorly defined market means that feature sets will necessarily be equally weak. What features does the "fat middle" NEED anyway?
3) Palm's complete dismissal of desktop sync with only 3rd party, partial solutions with full dependence on 'the cloud.' This has already resulted in lost data for some customers.
4) The absolutely suicidal decision to provide weak, crappy forward migration solutions for all Palm OS customers with years of legacy data like calendar, memos, tasks, not to mention heavy reliance on legacy apps. The partial, unreliable 3rd party Palm OS emulator called Classic was an inexcusably weak half-answer.
I've read the market analysts' assessments, and while cash flow and sell through estimates seem to intelligently tie into their recommendations, I often base my opinions on my assessment on a company's ability to deliver a product and serve a market. I have no hope for the long term future of such a short-sighted company with disregard for their entire legacy customer base and disregard for best practices which help current customers.
I don't think it matters how awesome the phone is or what some manboys on interet blogs think the phone should have. There was really no marketing push and Verizon employees have actually done the opposite by pushing the Android devices over the Pre when someone asks about it. Its not surprising sales haven't been stellar.
I had my Pre for 8 months, and kicked it to the curb (thank GOD for the ETF out). It is a decent smart phone, it's pretty, but it has nothing to separate it from any other smart phone, at all. It does nothing better than Android or iPhone, and in many ways, does things worse. I waited for 8 months for the little LED ball to gain the ability to flash when I have a notification, and it never came. My Nexus One had that day one. This speaks volumes about the WebOS experience so far.
I can't see how Palm can stay in the game. Blackberry should just buy them and actually do something with WebOS. Sorry Bonno.
I feel sorry for Palm, with their great engineers producing a great product
I cannot help them, however, because Palm's Marketeers have chosen not to sell the product in my ( rich, European ) country.
Dumb, dumb, dumb.
I was a Palm fan from 2005 when I purchased the Treo 650 on Sprint. Since then I had a couple of BlackBerry Devices, an iPhone 2G & 3G, a BlackBerry Storm 9530 and a BlackBerry Tour 9630. I currently own a Motorola Droid. I wanted a Palm Pre, But I didn't want to leave Verizon Wireless for Sprint. I was so excited when The Palm Pre Plus came out. I used my New Every 2 to get the it. I was so disappointed with the phone. Don't get me wrong, WebOS is a Beautiful Operating System and it has a lot of potential, But the Form Factor of the phone stinks! it's really bad! After 3 days with it, I called Verizon Wireless and I'm Exchanging it for a Storm 2 9550. I don't want Palm to fail, but if they keep releasing Crap phones like The Pre & Pixi, Well as you can see the analysts say it all...
Well at this point, its hardware first, then the software. Everyone has to remember that Palm has NO money. Zippo. thier R&D guys may have nice salaries but they have nothing to work with.
The Pre is an OLD phone model at this point. I wouldnt mind looking at a palm phone, but not the junk hardware they have out now. When in gods name will they release new hardware- or even show that hardware is coming? They have no momentum whatsoever- and of course that will hurt all of your efforts. I am moments away from smashing my great-yet-shitty touch pro, seriously- i just want to crush it.
Even though Pre's have invaded my family- 2 brothers, sister, + 2 cousins- i just cant work with that keyboard. i took a look at the smaller pre stick- and lol its a POS. the keyboard is even worse. Is it really that hard to come out with a landscape model, seeing as they were touting the keyboard user experience and all?
Cmon!!!
Who cares? Palm has been dead and will stay dead. The Pre was like shock treatment and the battery is now dead. RIP PALM!
@Joshua Floposky
Obvious troll is obvious.