The same Adobe employee who mentioned on Adobe's official forums that
Flash 10.1 would be blowing right past Windows Mobile 6.5 made another notable comment, too: on Android, they'll be conveniently overlooking devices that aren't based on an ARMv7 core like a Snapdragon or OMAP3 -- in other words, pretty much every device of consequence except the
Nexus One,
HTC Desire,
Acer Liquid, Motorola
Droid /
Milestone, and
Sony Ericsson X10. At this point, we're starting to get a little suspicious -- this is the same company that
proudly demoed the Hero's custom-rolled Flash support last year, after all, and there'll be no shortage of devices using Qualcomm's MSM7x27 line of chipsets in 2010 -- so we're holding out for some additional verification on this. Granted, forum mod Jochem van Dieten refers to the commenter specifically as an Adobe employee and he's got a
Plaxo profile identifying him as a product manager, but this is pretty wild news if accurate. We'll update you as we know more.
Update: Indeed,
PC Magazine points out that Adobe's current verbiage is that Flash 10.1 is going to require Cortex A8 "or better." So much for the "open" in
Open Screen Project, eh?
posted February 26th 2010 3:49PM
@masta vaan
Oh definitely true dude. The proof is in the Snapdragon. It's not a million light years ahead of what came before it despite the fact that they generally have higher than 2009's average clock speed in smart phones. Thing is, the difference between those Android sets and sets like the 3GS and Pre is huge, so I really have grown to hate those Quallcomms, whichever series they are.
@metafor Not true, actually. The 7x27 is not running a Scorpion core, I think you're thinking of the 7x30. 7x27 is still ARMv6, albeit with a lot of improvements over the ARMv6 of previous Qualcomm CPUs.
Yes. The older Msm chips all used Arm11 core. With the 7x27 series coming out, that'll be replaced by the Scorpion CPU inside Snapdragon
@ipxnsv
Maybe it's just me, but I support Adobe on this...it sucks if ya bought a phone that doesn't meet the standard.
But it would be good for Android, maybe manufactures will stop releasing phones with dated hardware.
Adobe should still push Flash 8,9 or flash lite on the devices though.
I think this is 100% proof that adobe IS lazy.
And they've been working on this for how long? A year? They must have really bad developers, or are just lazy. It'd be one thing if they had not been working on this for so long, but thats not the case.
It's funny. Really. People want to use flash, but at the same time talk about resource hogging. Sure, you can enable acceleration on hardware that isn't that advanced but you lose juice fast, real fast. Then all hell breaks loose. We'll have people invoking Steve "clairvoyant"Jobs 's prophecy. But the fact of the matter is that regardless of whether the feature exists in html5 or flash it is going to use similar amount of resources. Sure the memory overhead isn't going to be as much if you don't have to load an external library but nevertheless not all phones are going to be able to handle html5 or flash as gracefully as people would like. That is precisely why manufactures too want you to buy newer phones (its a basic marketing rule, why does iphone3g have no video while 3gs does? they could've easily got video support on the 3g, but they didn't). Plenty of phones like the Moto RAZR had different "versions" of the phone sold at different price points with exactly the same hardware (they just turn features off).
Moreover the only reason (I can think off) apple doesn't want flash on their hardware is because it will cannibalize on the app store profits... Think about it, majority of the apps on the store could be implemented through flash circumventing the app store. If I were a successful developer with a loyal fanbase, I would move out of the
app store and keep all of my profits. Users would probably have to pay less too. Now I don't want to start an apple flame war, I don't support or condone anyone. I'm merely pointing to the economics of the whole flash thing.
@Mg12
The Palm Pre didn't have video recording, The Palm Pixi didn't even have WIFI. Almost every phone is release without a so-called 'essential'. feature. Nerds need to have a phone that has a longer spec list than the next nerd. It's all about having a small penis. The sites that people use Flash for (Youtube) have free apps - I'm not just talking about the Iphone.
If you were a successful developer and you moved out of the app store that would make you an unsuccessful developer. Yes, take yourself out of the largest shop window in the mobile universe and see how your business goes. Very clever!
@Mg12
this has a pretty good explanation about flash ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2xrAAhAsDw
@t2af
That video used an awful lot of words and still failed to
@t2af
That video used an awful lot of words and still failed to make it's point. He frequently points to success of the Flash-less iPhone and iPod Touch as reasons that the iPad will also not need it, but "forgets" that more is expected of a tweener device. Netbooks do not support full-Flash well, but certainly better than a device that does not support it at all.
He also fails to recognize the importance of Flash's role outside of video distribution. The iPad will be ignoring a HUGE segment of the internet where Flash had become an assumed and integral part of the internet.
And finally, he is being dishonest by failing to mention Apple's financial incentive to not incclude Flash. That Apple will no longer be able to sell TV shows and games if they can be found elsewhere on the web for free is a HUGE reason, if not the primary reason, why Flash will never make it to the iPad.
@ColonelKernel
On the contrary, I believe not including flash in mass market devices such as iPhone and iPad is a good thing as it means website owners and devs will start to look to alternatives.
Fact is flash is horrible. I hate it on my laptop. It uses 60 - 80% of my cpu at times. That's just not acceptable and stinks of lazy programming.
@Mg12
"Moreover the only reason (I can think off) apple doesn't want flash on their hardware is because it will cannibalize on the app store profits... Think about it, majority of the apps on the store could be implemented through flash circumventing the app store"
Oh please, stop regurgitating nonsense fed to you by the anti apple trolls.
Do you really think even IF flash performed well enough on phones ( which it doesn't ) and it were implemented on the iPhone, that anyone other than a small minority of geeks would go through the inconvenience of trying to find flash games on the web, rather than have them as dedicated applications designed for their specific platform?
Get real
I'm starting to think that Flash 10.1 is nothing more than an elaborate hoax, and will never actually appear for any platform.
This makes sense. I always assumed that the older 528Mhz ARM11 Android phones weren't getting Flash 10.1. They are just too slow, even for the time they were released.
That is a large part of the reason I waited and passed up phones like the G1, MyTouch, etc.
@DJ
Did you expect that nVidia's Tegra wouldn't get it, though? That's ARM11 (aka ARMv6 instruction set)
@DJ
So how long are you going to wait?
@Moonchild
Oh, I got the Droid. I'm just saying I didn't jump on Android when the first phones came out, I waited until a nicely spec'd Android phone was available.
@DJ
This announcement only serves to bolster the facts that flash is too much of a resource hog for it's intended purpose when it just doesn't need to be.
Adobe have dropped the ball and rested on their laurels for far too long. The lack of flash on iPhone and iPad may just be what the market needs to begin the changeover to newer, better, less resource hungry alternatives.
I say good, I've had enough of flash. At the moment it's a necessary evil for me but the alternative(s) can't come quickly enough.
I disagree. This proves that the original Android phones were way too underpowered. Hell, they're slow just for regular use and some of them can't even handle an OS update to 2.x without some mods from ROM makers.
I don't understand the hate regarding Flash. I have never had an issue with it on my PCs. Just earlier I was watching a 480p video on Hulu and browsing the web and my CPU usage didn't get above 5%. And this wasn't with the hardware accelerated 10.1, just regular Flash 10.
I think Flash issues are a strictly Mac issue that Adobe and Apple needs to work on, but don't blame Adobe being lazy for Jobs and Apple in general being control freaks. If Flash 10.1 ends up sucking on mobile, Adobe will hear about it. And it will be turned off or uninstalled. But thankfully I'm on a platform where I'm given options, instead of dictated to like some child.
I guess I will sit here quietly wait for an Android port of Skyfire.
@Patlex Exactly, actually Skyfire just announced they bought the company that made Steel, the web browser, so they can more quickly bring Skyfire to Android.
It doesn't matter.Skyfire is coming out with a browser for android.
Now where does the ZuneHD stand anyone know?
@Murkurie
microsoft forgot about us... with wp7, who cares about us zuners...
Complaining about this is like complaining that Modern Warfare 2 won't run on your 1ghz p3. The hardware is dated and the performance will be bad. Lets face it, mobile phone chips have made a huge jump in the past year.
@jakeZ Comparing last year phones with 10 year old CPUs isn't really the best analogy.
@jakeZ
Unfortunately unlike old PC hardware these mobile chips are still being sold in new phones. Also the consumer has no easy way to know which phone uses which chip. And of course people who own them are most likely stuck in contracts and cannot upgrade. These phones still work fine for most stuff too which is why they're still being used.
Adobes Laziness will be there demise! Sorry to say it but Steve was right!
If they announce that flash isn't coming to the pre right now either... I will be sooooo pissed
I hope they're just going to distribute the binary as well, since we all need it for the Pandora!
LOLOLOLOL
KEEP DROPPING THOSE BOMBS ADOBE!
Cmon everybody, sing it with me...
we, engadget readers/
android bleeders/
palm pre feeders/
winmo weezers/
HATE the IPAD/
because no flash is SO BAD/
Best tech ever had/
Now we are mad/
And even more sad..why are u adobe so LAZY
(chorus 3x)
(and steve jobs chuckles himself to sleep- again)
Boy, seems Adobe is making the case for HTML5 without much help these days... I can't wait to be rid of flash... To hear the wistful words "remember when all we had was freaking flash!"
So, let me see if I got this straight, since I don't have a smart phone.. Everyones saying apple is crap for not having flash on their phone, but I'm getting the impression that NO phone has flash?
It's Adobe. Does this surprise anyone? We were supposed to have a beta release in Oct 2009 for Android. 5 months later still a no show. Now they're dropping hardware support too? What happens when some SmartPhone maker decides to use a new hardware platform? No Flash until Adobe can port it. Adobe won't port it until you have market share. It's closed source so you can't do it in house. What about a company like Palm with sales problems? Is Adobe going to put effort into making WebOS Flash not suck? At one point they had *one guy* working on Flash for Linux. Obviously Linux doesn't have huge market share but come on -- it's still millions of users. ONE GUY?
My Samsung Moment was also promised Flash Support for the web browser upon the Android 2.1 update, it's running the 800 MHz Samsung S3C6410 CPU Processor that's well capable of handling it.
It's a bunch of bs that these vendors are allowed to sell devices with a promise of additional services then suddenly have Adobe back out/pull the plug on the promised support.
I truly hope someone will file a suit against them in order to get the support that was officially promised. Of course Samsung will simply try to push the blame squarely onto Adobe. I have always thought adobe was a crooked company offering severely overpriced software and this just furthers my dislike for them.
It's a pattern--they've become arrogant. Withholding or delaying their support for a number of different hardware and software platforms, including the ipad, and now Winmo 6.5 and probably 7.0.
There's not even a version of flash for your 64bit IE browser!
Wha? Sounds like the icarus syndrome.....
This company is riding the success of their Photoshop heritage, and needs to feel the sting of competition to shock them back to reality.
We'll all be happier once Flash goes away.
Ashame to see a non-starter garner so much attention. Flash is dead, whether it know this yet or not. HTML5 is close to final acceptance and timeframes are already deployed to quelch innefective tech. Let's all just jump on the h264 bandwagon and flush Flash down the toilet. Who's With ME!
Can anyone confirm this for the Symbian platform.
Trust in Adobe and you'll get burned. Its the company of cry wolf. I don't believe anything from them until I actually see it out marked "stable."
We can live without flash on our mobile phones. If Adobe doesn't want the main part of the market, we don't want them either.