Microsoft sending mixed signals on Windows Phone 7 Series upgrades, HTC HD2 still in limbo
By Nilay Patel 
posted March 1st 2010 3:37PM
posted March 1st 2010 3:37PM
The fate of the mighty HTC HD2 seems to be getting murkier by the minute: Microsoft UK VP Alex Reeve said last week that an upgrade to Windows Phone 7 Series might be left up to hardware partners, but now Natasha Kwan, General Manager for Microsoft's Asia Pacific Mobile Communications Business says the 1GHz handset "doesn't qualify because it doesn't have the three buttons" required by WP7. Making matters even less clear, we asked Microsoft's Director of Consumer Experiences Aaron Woodman about the HD2 directly on The Engadget Show, and he politely declined to tell us about the device's upgradability, and said that WP7's final required specs would be revealed at MIX '10. We'll be honest: we're taking all this confusion to mean that Microsoft hasn't quite figured out how to say the HD2 is at a dead end just before it launches on T-Mobile US, but hey -- maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised at MIX.
Well as I keep saying, MS last July said they were adopting a dual platform strategy, the 6.x.x OS line and the Windows Mobile 7 (WP7) line.
So the only question I don't have answered is what HTC, MS and T-Mo consider the HD2, is it a WinMo 6.x.x phone or is it a WP7 device.
Since the HD2 will have been out for over a year by the time with Windows 7 Series phones debut, I suspect that all concerned (see above) consider the HD2 a top of the line 6.x.x phone.
Now as to the upgrade to WinMo7 (I know, MS does not like it called WinMo 7 and its trying to get away from people calling it that because of the dual platform strategy) I heard that the HD2 will get the upgrade, but the HD2 will NOT then be designated a Windows 7 Series phone. It can't be, because it's been out over a year, by Nov 2010, which as you know is really a long time in "tech years."
The keys are not an issue, by the way. That's just speculation, gossip and rumors by people who don't know what's really going on. In fact, the HD2 Windows key can be remapped to become the oh-so-important Bing key that the Windows 7 Series phones must have.
Lastly, all this talk about the HD2 officially getting a WP& upgrade, that's all BS from bloggers. Fact remains, HTC, MS, and T-Mo (to a lesser extent since T-Mo simply sells what HTC and MS give them) have not and will not take a position on it and I doubt they will.
Anyone on here who says they know what is what with the HD2 getting WP7 is full of sheet. As the one member said in here, MS is keeping super quiet on this and chasing down anyone who leaks info.
Bottom line, from everything I have read and heard: IMHO the HD2 will get an OPTIONAL upgrade to WP7 operating system, but it will still be considered the top model in the 6.x.x series of phones.
Separately, the debut of Windows 7 Series phones is a big deal for the 2010 holiday season. This is so for a number of reasons, not the least of which is to build excitement in MS's new OS and to spur slumping sales. The way to create a big splash is not to introduce the OS on a year-old handset. LOL.
But T-Mo is aware of the HD2/WP7 controversy and concerns by a lot of potential customers about the debuting HD2 getting WP7. So in that regard I would not be surprised if MS and T-Mo make an announcement about the HD2 getting a "WP7 rain check" of sorts for HD2 first adopters (that is, U. S. purchasers).
Considering how much concern there is on the Net about HD2 and this issue, I can't imagine MS and T-Mo will ignore it. They have to make a public comment about their HD2/WP7 intentions, I would think.
Other articles are saying no phone currently in the willd will be able to upgrade at all. LOL! Glad to see MS has everything all lined up as usual, oh wait, nevermind.
never going to happen. doesnt have the 3 hardware buttons as mentioned. but the main point is:
if its up to HTC why would they ever care about upgrading the HD2 to WM7? they sold their devices and when WP7 is out, there will be new phones better than the HD2 that HTC wants to sell and the people want to buy. why would they care about the people who ve already given them their money?
Jesus this phone looks so good, everytime I see it I'm more impressed. I need that phone with Android because I love Android and mine is a Google household so no WM for us, I´m all googly eyed over this phone, no pun intended.
Love the HD2 since I first laid eyes on it. But, I'll just take my Supersonic thank you..
Not for nothing.. The HTC Eris/ and Moto Droid came out and 4 Months later the N1 is coming to Verizon thus making the Droid "obsolete". The end of this month the HD2 will come out witch arguably is the best spec'd consumer handset available in the US. Hell.. I'd be happy with this phone for 7-8 months until WMP7 hardware comes out.. Heres to hoping that t-mobile will make the pricing as attractive as the phone.
@Certifiedfryguy -- yes, but by "obsolete" in that context, you just mean "no longer the hottest hardware on the block"... the Droid will obv. continue to be a very good & useful Android phone for a while (and will likely receive Android updates from time to time, etc.). I think the main fear of buying a 6.5 phone now (for those who plan to keep it for several years) would be an increasingly atrophied selection of 6.5 apps, less robust software support, etc.
A rule is a rule. Break it for one, you may as well for all.
@pachi72
What are you talking about? They didn't kill emulation, they killed the original xbox games ability to connect to live. You can still play your Xbox originals, just not on live. Not that anybody would be there anyway.
Pass, WP7 will be failure just like its previous iterations. Microsoft came out too late and UI does not impress me in anyway. Besides developing a common OS for many vendors just does not work in mobile market.
I seem to be the only one that hopes WinMo 7 doesn't come to the HD2. I don't like the whole hubs thing, and the fact that it's really just a slightly different iPhone. I have an iPhone, I want something new. Plus, Sense. Sense is what sold me on HTC phones. I can't have Sense on WinMo 7. I think the HD2 is perfectly fine with 6.5, or should I say WinMo Classic.
And yes I realize that it would be an optional upgrade and I can choose not to upgrade. But I would rather not have the option to, cause I've accidentally upgraded my iPhone and lost a jailbreak. So if there's no option to, I can't accidentally fuck up.
@Bedlight
The problem is that software developers are probably going to ditch Windows Mobile as soon as 7 comes out.
Next year, when this year's iPhone, N1, Droid, etc. are still being supported by major app releases by major developers, the HD2 will be struggling as focus is shifted to the WP7 models that will replace it.
@ebgolfin : They won't drop support immediately since there will still be the installed base out there. It'll happen gradually and by then you'll be ready for a new phone anyway. Your existing WinMo device isn't going to turn into a pumpkin the day 7 drops.
@Bedlight
" it's really just a slightly different iPhone"
Are you blind ?
@eka I'm sorry, the iPhone has pages, not hubs.
I don't see why anyone would expect an official upgrade to WP7 for the HD2. Why bother with modifying the OS to work on old hardware instead of selling you a new model, with proper buttons and all.
Whether someone hacks the new OS on the device or not, it won't be a proper bug-free release and it will feel like it. It certainly could never be sold that way. Re-mapped buttons are really only a solution for the super geeks, because no regular consumer is going to want to hack the hell out of their phone for a new, unsupported OS.
If anyone is that concerned about having WP7, they might as well skip the HD2 unless they want the headache. After all, it's nothing more than a 1 Gz phone with large screen. Big deal. It's the software that makes you love your phone, not its specs. Plus, they'll be selling the same thing with a bug-free (hopefully) WP7 at the end of the year.
@ebgolfin - Excellent points and are in comport with what I said, it's only bloggers who started all this talk about HD2/WP7. No one who matters has even hinted at the concept.
Fact is, the HD2 is a fantastic, high powered WinMo 6.5 device, that has a large display. And of the Windows phones (note I did NOT say Series 7) it's probably the best of the touchscreen devices out there.
I said months ago that it was silly for people to be expecting, demanding or anticipating the HD2 as a WP7 phone. They should look at the device for what it is (see above.)
If anyone wants a WP7 phone, wait until November, look over the superphones coming out and buy one. Don't worry about or focus on the HD2. It's probably never going to be what YOU want it to be. Maybe they will issue an upgrade, maybe not. But don't base a buying decision on that.
If you don't like that MS, HTC, and T-Mo would promise you a WP7 upgrade then DON'T BUY THE HD2. Save your money and get a new superphone.
Personally I like WinMo 6.5.x I am used to it, love tinkering with it and look forward to buying the HD2. When November superphones debut I will probably pass the HD2 on to my girlfriend and buy a new phone.
What I won't be doing is doing without until November. I want to use and enjoy the HD2 for the next 8 months.
That all said, if sales suffer T-Mo will need to address this issue, just like Apple had to lower the price of the iPhone a couple months after its debut because if disappointing sales numbers.
I would love it if it was Series 7 with Sense UI!
I love my HD2 over my iPhone!
Oh, one more thing, I don't think it's Microsoft sending mixed signals. This article is simply a compendium of questions, responses, speculation, conclusions and assumptions, and interpretations of comments or statements made by various people.
That's NOT Microsoft saying anything, much less sending "signals."
For example, you point out that MS said:
"The 1GHz handset 'doesn't qualify because it doesn't have the three buttons' required by WP7."
This begs the question, what does "qualify" mean. Is that some process, procedure or specifications somewhere at MS? I don't think so.
Aside from the fact that a passing comment is not the same as MS's official position (nor a statement about MS policy or projects), I'm pretty sure that person does not speak for Redmond.
MS has never said that a WP7 phone will have ONLY three specified buttons and nothing else (and MS has never said it would be requiring manufacturers to get rid of the "end" and "make" call keys, hardware buttons millions of people are used to and familiar with).
What MS said is that a WP7 phone "will have" three keys. There's a big difference between "will" and "only."
To me this means an HD2 can be upgraded because it does have those buttons. (For sure, the Windows key could be remapped to log on to Bing search.)
__________
You also say:
"Making matters even less clear, Microsoft... said that WP7's final required specs would be revealed at MIX '10. We'll be honest: we're taking all this confusion to mean that Microsoft hasn't quite figured out how to say the HD2 is at a dead end just before it launches on T-Mobile US."
Huh? MS refuses to disclose what is going on (as part of its tight-lipped strategy) and you interpret this as MS not knowing how to say the HD2 is dead on arrival to prospective T-Mo customers of the device?
That sounds ridiculous.
In any event, I stick to my other post. The HD2 is a WinMo 6.5 device. It will be on the market for eight months before the Windows "superphones" debut. That's a long time for a device to be on the market.
Besides, what's the alternative, for T-Mo to not debut the HD2?
That makes no sense since the phone has been on the market for four months (back when no one knew anything about WP7).
That makes no sense since the phone is an awesome WinMo 6.5 device (why should anyone assume the HD2 with WP7 will be a better device).
That makes no sense since the carriers are in the business to keep customers interested and to motivate them to sign up for profitable data plans. The way to do that is to bring out phones like the HD2 with WinMo 6.5 Professional.
The bottom line is that the HD2 is a WinMo 6.5 device, not a WP7 handset. It's been on the market for close to five months by the time T-Mo sells it. Other than some software/apps and a bump in the processor, the T-Mo version will be the same as the European model. (Turns out the HD2 in Europe has the same RAM amount as the T-Mo version will, users just have to free it up on the phone.)
What has changed since T-Mo announced an intent to sell the HD2 is all this Net talk about WP7 and whether the U. S. version will get a WP7 upgrade. (Query: Were European Hd2 first adopters talking about getting WP7? I suspect not since back then no one knew anything).
From what I have seen on the Net a perception may be taking over prospective HD2 purchasers. That is: If HTC, MS and T-Mo won't promise that the HD2 will be getting a WP7 upgrade, that could kill T-Mo sales of the phone.
If this happens, it will only be because:
1) People were not aware of or did not understand MS's 2009-declared dual platform strategy (to be sure, I have seen many people refer to WP7 as WinMo 6.5's replacement);
2) The growing and cementing perception in people's minds (and assumption) that WP7 is better than WinMo 6.5. When given a choice, especially techies, people always want what is perceived as "better."
3) The erroneous assumption that WP7 functions the same as WinMo 6.5, but only better. (In fact, the two operating systems are dramatically different. WP7 will be for consumer users, WinMo 6.x.x are will continue to be for office and professional use.
So IMHO, there is some accuracy to the headline, HTC, MS and most critical T-Mo better say something to assure prospective HD2 purchasers about their intentions with HD2/WP7. (And to assure them regardless if prospective purchasers are mistaken, have been misled or misguided or are making unfounded assumptions.)
To not assuage prospective customers could well make the HD2 DOA (dead on arrival) or at the minimum cause HD2 sales to suffer significantly. This is because we all know that people who spend a lot of coin for devices like the HD2 are a demanding lot. They won't reach into their wallets simply on perception that they are "getting ripped off," so to speak.
And they better give T-Mo HD2 purchasers the WP7 upgrade. Trying to force feed them the idea that the HD2 is a great WinMo 6.5 handset is not going to work, if for no other reason that it's too late for that, a lost cause, if you will.
@MichaelSF
"Huh? MS refuses to disclose what is going on (as part of its tight-lipped strategy) and you interpret this as MS not knowing how to say the HD2 is dead on arrival to prospective T-Mo customers of the device?"
It's not very tight lipped when you have actual MS representatives blabbing on about specs, and then when they realize they may be about to hurt HD2 sales start backtracking..
Where is this tight-lipped exactly?
@hfm Well it may appear a contradiction, but to me passing comments by people here and there does not constitute MS being loose lipped about what's happening.
In fact the opposite is true, no MS rep has said what is what about MS's plans. If anyone did talk, he or she would be fired in a heartbeat.
And I don't think anyone asking MS questions about this or that is going to get MS reps to talk. Wouldn't that be fun, all we have to do is ask enough questions and eventually someone would crack and sing like a canary.
Lastly, I simply choose not to garner the meaning from cryptic, passing comments that others choose. For example, many people (writers for professional publications) have incompetently referred to WP7 as the replacement for WinMo. That's simply not true. But since people in a position to know this kind of stuff have said it, thousands on the Net have started referring to WP7 and "WinMo 7" as the replacement for WinMo 6.x.x
MS only told manufacturers and developers about its dual platform strategy, as a result Ms's intentional silence has hurt both platforms. Yes, part of that was because MS did not want to talk about WP7 until the platform was expected to debut, but that was a bad move, for sure.
In any event, I don't agree that MS perceives WinMo 6.5 on an HD2 as dead on arrival.
I was chomping at the bit to get an HD2. Now, no upgrade equals no sale.
@Edwin320 - You are you confirming what I said.
Stats wise, on the entire Net the majority of comments and feelings are: "if the HD2 does not come with a promise of a WP7 upgrade, I will NOT buy an HD2."
It's bad enough that I suspect T-Mo will address the issue. (All companies check these boards to get a feel of what the community thinks. I can't imagine T-Mobile reacting to all this with a "so what." If they do, then I expect something about the upgrade from them after the dismal sales numbers come in.)
I suspect I am in the minority in terms of feeling the HD2 with WinMo 6.5 is a great device. Most people want what's better, whether it actually is or not. The "better" in this case happens to be HD2 with a promise of a free WP7 upgrade.
@MichaelSF I agree with your premise. I don't know that WM7 will be better than the current iteration. I do believe that it is worth waiting for and investigating. If the companies in question (T-Mo / HTC / MS) promise an upgrade path, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. I tend to keep my phones for a while. I've been off contract with T-Mo for a while (in a family plan...so no Nexus One for me), and when I finally get a new phone, I'd be upset if WM7 draws all the developer attention away from the legacy system, leaving a limited selection of new apps.
The Sense UI is pretty darn good, and the phone itself right now is the best Windows Mobile device on the market. It will be a great phone for years to come without having 7 series on it, so it's hardly a huge deal if it isn't upgradeable.
@cr0ft
Except application support will start to peter out as everyone migrates to the SDK they end up releasing for WMS7
Personally I think they're making a good call.
A few months after launch we'll all be wondering just how we coped all these years without Bing buttons on our smartphones.
This was the first thing I said when they announced that "BING" button requirement. There is no way the HD2 is going to winmo 7.
@stabbytheicepic
Much like the HTC myTouch for T-Mo now has a little more RAM and a 3.5mm jack, we may well see a revamp of the HD2 with a little more RAM , no send/end, and a change for the image on the windows button to a magnifying glass...
Now I really don't feel bad buying a Droid instead of waiting for the next flavor of WinMo. That would be stupid if a high power high costing phone like this can't support WinMo7. Leave it up to the OEM, ha Microsoft please, a lazy way of saying that this won't happen and buy a new phone, we want your money suckers.
And that would be sad if WinMo7 turns out to be a locked down single trick mess like iPhone OS, thats just scary and mean.
I "WAS" interested in and HD2.. even possibly the new Winmo...
NO MORE... forget it.. Microsoft couldn't have bungled things more if they tried.
@obobo ... Oh don't be like that. I think you would be very happy with an HD2 running WinMo 6.5.x and HTC Sense. Forget about WP7. Besides, can't you buy the HD2, try it out for 14 days (30 days here in California) and if you don't like it, send it back?
I had a Touch Pro2 (recently sold so I could get the HD2). I was running WinMo 6.5.1 with HTC Sense. That user interface (HTC Sense) was fantastic. I especially loved the animated weather and the various individual HTC Sense actions one used instead of Windows Mobile's boring menus.
Another requirement MS will impose on any handset running WP7 is that the device cannot have a manufacturer's custom user shell/interface (can you say "no more HTC Sense." Also no shells similar to Motorola's Blur for Android).
One reason for this is MS wants to prevent the fragmentation going on with Android (there's so many iterations, whether OS versions or manufacturer-installed user interfaces that Android has become very buggy and no one is sure what Android means anymore).
Like I said last month (to rip off F. Gump) "Android has become like a box of chocolates, you are never sure what you are going to get." Fragmentation is hurting Android's previous stellar reputation.
So part of MS multi-front strategy to prevent fragmentation of WP7 is to say no more custom user shells, no matter how popular or good it might be considered by users.
And also like I said a few months ago, I would have to think long and hard if I want WP7 because giving up HTC Sense will be difficult, it's that good, to me at least.
Just wait til some MS exec 'correct' this statement
Dear Microsoft...Make an exception.
-everyone
They aren't going to simply answer you whether HD2 will be upgradable or not, just to keep the buzz going - simples! :)
Yeah they're going to have to correct this statement or only people that don't know any better will buy it.. wait.. that would be a SHITLOAD of people...
To release a phone with no officially supported upgrade path in the age of Android, Pre and iPhone is a death knell.
Every great phone on TMo has these annoying strings.
Nexus One?
Weird plans
HD2
Dead OS
You're KILLING ME!
Once we found out what WPS7 was going to be, and the strict limitations regarding buttons, specs, and most importantly overlays like Sense and Touchwiz not being allowed, an upgrade to WPS7 seemed a lot more unlikely. I mean, the entire interface would change, the entire Sense install would have to be removed.
More than likely the HD2 will stay on 6.5.x (or Windows Phone Series Classic, whatever MS is calling it now). This giant that huge of a deal considering the high quality of Sense and the people over at XDA. This really sucks for other phone manufacturers like Toshiba and LG because IIRC no phone has the button requirements and spec requirements that MS is requiring. They are missing one or the other. It will be interesting to see how anal MS is over its requirements.
Personally, I am both excited by the potential of WINPho7Series and content with the performance of WinMo6.5 with Sense 2.5 UI. The HD2 should sell well on it's own merits regardless of the upgrade path. My prediction is that 3-6 months after the first WINPho7Series phones hit the market T-Mo USA will finally release the upgrade. They will delay the upgrade to encourage as many people as possible to buy new phones to get the "Hot new OS." After the early adopters have all jumped on board they will release the HD2 upgrade when it won't hurt their bottom line nearly as much. Besides, one way or another, baring serious legal action by Microsoft, as everyone has already said, XDA will do the dirty work first.
I guess microsoft will upgrade wp7 for hd2, but they wont tell you now.
Maybe they need selling lot of licences for new hardware phones coming first, but they'll need a high number of customers buying and using wp7 apps too.
HD2 users + WP7 = $$$
If there's such thing as an exception to the rule, it'd be the HD2. Seriously. It's got five buttons, two of which are call/end buttons. The middle three can be remapped to the back, start, and search buttons from WP7. As for everything else, it's got a capacitive multi-touch screen, WVGA resolution, 1GHz Snapdragon, half a gig of RAM, 802.11n Wi-Fi, a 3.5mm jack, magnetometer, accelerometer, and A-GPS. All it's missing is the FM radio.
Are we really gonna deny the HD2 because it has 5 buttons not 3 and it doesn't have a fucking FM radio? Seriously Microsoft, get your shit together. This is inexcusable.
@kenny goo
I thought HD2 have FM radio
@carlongas
I didn't know that. Well more then reason to give it the upgrade to WP7! Seriously though, I just don't get this move. They deny it because of a couple of extra face buttons? Really?
the only thing I'm worried about is how I can go about saving my text messges.
I've got about 18,000 texts from last February to now
I'd like to keep all of them, in addition to all the texts from now until I updgrade
any ideas?
I know Microsoft Myphone may have this ability, but as far as I remember, there was a limit on how many texts you could save
the whole thing it dumb its a touch screen phone soft keys can be made easy
It seems a little silly, or non-cooperative, on Microsoft's part to allow device manufacturers to release devices with a set of buttons if they absolutely knew the three-button standard would be implemented for Windows Phone 7 Series devices. It is possible that HTC knew this, and went ahead and released the device anyway. (Sell what's available.) I still wonder if a lot of people will be satisfied with the HD2 with WinMo 6.5 because it's a refined version of the OS, as opposed to jumping into a completely new OS architecture that may have kinks for some time.