There's no delicate way to put this: at least part of
Apple's patent lawsuit against HTC appears to be a proxy fight for a larger issue with Android as a whole. Apple's complaint with the International Trade Commission makes an explicit distinction between HTC's Android devices and its WinMo phones (referred only to as "DSP Products"), and the Android sets are repeatedly called out for infringing certain patents. We don't know exactly what Apple's issue is yet -- the problem could be the specific way HTC
implements Android, rather than Android itself -- but it's certainly a big shot across Google's bow. We'll keep reading and let you know what else we find out.
Update: We've gone through
each of the patents in both lawsuits and we're more convinced than ever that this lawsuit is really about Android, not HTC.
Check here for the full rundown.
posted March 2nd 2010 12:06PM
All you guys are just jelous because no company would ever revolutionize the mobile market like Apple did. Yes the iPhone is probably a little old OS system. Android complety took Iphone os and added a few customizable things. They abviously copied apple. Apple was one of the first to implement pinch to zoom in their phones.
@iDavey Let me disagree with you on that one ;-) I truly believe than Android would not be the same if iPhone was never released, after all iPhone was a real revolution, like it or not. Probably would be more like Symbian S60 or Win Mobile 6.x
@some1
iPhone released a phone with a grid of icons. (Windows Mobile, Blackberry, Symbian...all did it before Android or iPhone).
A touchscreen phone (Once again, Windows Mobile, Palm, and LG had it before).
Only thing I'd give Apple is the App Store. But it's been shown already that an on-phone app store was old news. Apple revolutionized (not innovated) that by making that the ONLY way to get 3rd party apps officially. But then again...didn't the Sidekick follow that format. So I believe Andy should sue Apple for "infringing on his idea".
Apple made it simpler. Please do not confuse simplifying a smartphone with innovation.
I hand the consumer smartphone revolution onto RIM for their Pearl and Curve line (which the latter is still the best selling smartphone).
So I once again say, the consumer and social aspects of Android would still be intact. Seeing as Andy had that vision before iPhone. The vision would be there after iPhone. Sidekick is a main example.
@iDavey you're kidding right? Which phone had a multi-touch screen and OS, with pinch and zoom, with swipe to browse photos and everything else, visual voice mail, how bad were www browsers, what about radical games and apps? Funny that people already forgot how "smart" phones were before iPhone :-) Drop that anti-apple thoughts man, give them credit where they deserve, and shout out their failures (copy paste, mms, flash) ...
@some1
First, pinch to zoom...not the CRAZY breakthrough people make it out to be. It's nice, but that's not why iPhone sells and it's not an amazing feature. They don't even have that patented. Now the specific bouncing of the pages and the multitouch of the keyboard. THAT is something that is amazing. Not the "pinch to zoom" feature. And swiping pictures...was done in TouchFlo...which debuted the EXACT same time as iPhone. Lets stop the fan reasons, and get to what really sells the iPhone shall we?
Next, it IS the App Store, which I have shown you...was done before the iPhone...just not as big.
Visual Voicemail...how often do you even SEE iPhone market that anymore. Let alone any of the telcos.
Games and Apps...I gave the credit due to the App Store...I reiterate.
Browsers...Opera Mobile and Mini both do a better job. So does Skyfire. Mini and Skyfire simply for the way they process and render pages. So that's thrown out also. Only reason they don't get praise is because it's not standard or widespread.
So as I said...Apple simply brought the simple game to the smartphone arena. That is not "anti-apple" thoughts. That's the truth.
Is that downing Apple? No. Because a simple smartphone was needed for the populace to accept it. So why you take that as a bad mark towards Apple, I have no idea.
But it is fact, consumer oriented smartphones started with Blackberry.
SIMPLE consumer oriented smartphones started with iPhone.
That's it, nothing more.
@some1
Also their failures...copy/paste isn't one of them. I will say it took them a hell of a long time to get out. But I honestly like the way they implemented it. I hate copy/paste on things such as web pages on Android. Simply because they don't allow you to select a start/end point on those pages.
Another thing Apple succeeded in...was making the smartphone "beautiful"
Before the iPhone...they were clunks (excluding the Pearl and Touch).
But the iPhone made others realize, it's not just the software, you have to have a nice looking peace of hardware to match.
So as I said, I'm far from anti-Apple. I love them. But this right here is not one instance when I do. I'm stating the truth about these things. You want to notice them, go ahead. You don't that's cool.
But don't sit there and say Apple invented EVERYTHING that is on the iPhone to date. If that was the case, there would be Nokia filing suit, Kodak, Apple afraid to take on Palm, or phones prior to iPhone with similar (albeit less appealing) features.
@LAY
such a loser
It's simple, Apple wants to scare handset manufacturers away from using Android.
What a passive aggressive shot at Google. I really dislike the corporate practices of Apple.
@finch106 But think of it this way, why would anyone sue without having any merit? What about HTC's lawyers they knew they were infringing this means that HTC just went for profits just like any other chinese company would do.
This is like when EA bought the rights to the NFL. Has Madden changed enough to warrant a yearly $60 price tag since 2005? No, it has not and still sells millions of copies. Why!? What are people doing? Change the cover and release Madden 05 again and see if anyone notices. Now this happens and the iPhone wont make any revolutionary changes again and the entire advancement of phones will freeze.
@JBC
oh snap!!!
@Clancycoop
Yes we do live in a world with law suits can be started on anything. At the same time you have the patent offices that will patent just about anything no matter how broad it is if you give them enough money under the table. Most of the patents I been reading should have never been allowed as a patent.
Apple is becoming the Web Domain Sitter of patent accumulators; the Monster Cable of Legal Harassment.
@kLyon
Why? Excluding the front cover suing that's really about a royalty dispute with Nokia. When did Apple last sue for a patent? Creative springs to mind, that was years ago and a desist order against a Nano rippoff I think.
Apple isn't suing over patents very often. Apple on the other hand is sued all the time. Which might be because they rip people off (all tech companies do, so the whole sue thing is stupid) or might be because they have lots of cash people want to get. Just as likely the later.
In a bizzare twist, it might have nothing to do with any of this but a cover story regarding Google's CEO on the board of Apple being called for investigation of colusion last year. Nothing like a shit fight to poverty otherwise.
We never see or hear about the back room or phone call deals these giant mobs do.
@johnsonroda27 lol just beause its a business doesnt mean u can break laws
I love Engadget, but I'm getting tired of its readers (ie: commenters).
Page after page after page of trite comments totally irrelevant to the subject at hand.
This is a fascinating story (which is why, I presume, Engadget posted it in the first place) that deserves real commentary and real discussion. An uneducated spewing of anti-Apple vitriol is a waste of everyone's time and will take this wonderful blog down with it.
This is a story replete with potential legal and corporate intrigue. Here we've got a company that is well respected for its R&D that produces a groundbreaking product for which -- at its public introduction -- the CEO (Steve Jobs) oddly proclaims how much of its technology has been patented.
The stage was set.
When that product (iPhone) took the the market lead, it begged some obvious questions:
How are Apple's competitors going to catch up with so much of the novel tech being patented?
Will they innovate?
Or will they copy and wait for the lawsuits?
Will newer cooler tech come to market with the combined thinking of every non-Apple developer? Or has the bar been set too high? Which of those novel technologies will the public clamour for? Which will become mainstays of the technology of the future?
I dunno kids, that's pretty fascinating stuff and worthy of intelligent conversation. I'd like to hear real thoughts on the situation.
This is a very very common sort of corporate game. It certainly doesn't warrant any anti-Apple rhetoric. Almost every piece of technology you use (hardware and software) is patented and its producers are paying license fees. Apple too pays third-parties to license tech they've incorporated into their products. As the patent holder, Apple can demand a cease-and-decist, but often they'll set a do-not-compete timeline or make a licensing arrangement.
No big deal. But entertaining, none-the-less.
Let's all start by reading the filing and a c t u a l l y figuring out what intellectual property Apple is protecting.
And then let's talk.
@winstonsteele can I borrow that soap box when youre done with it?
@winstonsteele no but seriously, 1% of iphone users out there will actually look at this with an open mind and not just blind fanboyism. If youre here to try to find an actual intelligent conversation about this I say good luck.
@winstonsteele spot on. couldn't agree with you more.
@winstonsteele
"Let's all start by reading the filing and a c t u a l l y figuring out what intellectual property Apple is protecting."
Read page 1.
This flotilla of claims illustrates quite well what's killing business and innovation in the United States: an inexcusably broken patent system that defies its own rules by issuing illegal patents.
It's already been ruled that algorithms are not patentable. All software is algorithms. That's it. So why are we still suffering these affronts?
Also illegal are patents on THE OBVIOUS. Consider "Unlocking A Device By Performing Gestures On An Unlock Image". If this is upheld, then one by one every possible action undertaken by manipulating an analog of a real-world object is going to be off-limits. Like "changing the volume of audio by manipulating a volume-knob image". In fact, you could argue that this covers all GUIs of any kind. One could file billions of patent applications, simply listing every conceivable type of control one by one.
It's bad enough that people can have decades of their hard work stolen by patent trolls with more money than the little guy, using patents that should never have been granted. Even worse is that every U.S. taxpayer is funding this gigantic rip-off. Funding an institution that has become little more than a tool for bullies to use in stifling innovation and stealing, exactly the OPPOSITE of what it's supposed to be.
Seriously Apple need to watch out. If they want to sit and fight off any competition that comes their way they are on the fast track towards anti-trust suits. Apple has dealt with a few because of iTunes but this is a whole other game. This could blow back in their face.
@kyphem
Also, kinda ironic that apple sues htc over patents, but refuses to aknowledge them from other companies (read : nokia).
@kyphem Except that HTC's Taiwanese, not Chinese. Different country.
This just makes me love Google, Android and HTC even more.
Apple is afraid to sue Google
HTC is a scapegoat
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/2010/03/03/why-is-apple-suing-htc-and-not-google.html
It would be interesting if every Google product suddenly became unavailable to the iPhone and everything running OS X. YouTube, Docs, Gmail, Picasa...everything.
If only for an hour. Just to make the point.
@zakany would be awesome :D
@zakany That would be much more of an anti-trust issue than this patent dispute is.
Lets be honest Apple is persuing this ban as US only because that would be there only chance of winning. They know that they could not pull this crap outside the states. Now the issue is because lets be honest this is about Android and they are going after the smallest of the hardware companies, but who happens to manufacture most of the high end smartphones which hits Apples bottom line Apple has never liked competition or open software.
This could come and bite them in the ass because every major hardware dealer uses Android besides Nokia(and they are not fond of Apple either)they might have just have open a pandora's box for the others to come after them and say okay how about we ban Apple products worldwide and you can keep the US how about those apples
If you do not defend your patents, you lose them. There is no use in filing for patents unless you plan on defending them. This is just business. McDonald's sued a Mom and Pop in India called McCurry for over 10 years. This is not a way of life. We're not on team--Apple or team-Google. These are just consumer products brought to us by multinational corporations. Both sides of this argument (and I mean in this message board, not the court room) need to get a life.
@Bronzus Yeah it is. "Big Apple" watching above us all. Suing NYC next.
@kyphem Exactly, HTC has lawyers. I don't know where you come from, but around here companies check really carefully if they infringe anything owned by another company. What makes you think HTC didn't do that?
everyone here that does not like what apple is trying to pull should white a letter to the white house how apple is trying to hold back innovation how this would never work over seas, how there trying to enforce a vague wide patent net that that talks about nothing specific or how it would be implemented just so no one else can compete that the patent system is broken and need to be revised with Europe as a model or what ever
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
you guys have valid good points so good i temped to copy and paste some of your points on there but that would be cheating
total combined comments on this lawsuit is over 1500 = MOST EVER!!
just saying
The bottom line in all of this is Apple is afraid of open source. They sell themselves as the "Think different" or whatever company. In reality, however, open source projects like Android play that role far better than Apple does. Apple realizes that they are never going to de-throne M$ in the PC world so they are moving into the mobile neighborhood like the digital mafia looking to chase the competition out.