According to the
Wall Street Journal, Google is making headway with its plans to
stop filtering search results in China. Quoting Eric Schmidt as saying that "something will happen soon," the latest report is that Google is engaged in negotiations with multiple government agencies in China, and the likeliest scenario at this point is that the search giant will remain in the People's Republic, though it may be in a slightly altered state. "There will be a way for Google to not pull out 100%," says a source familiar with the ongoing discussions, who expects that El Goog will find a patchwork arrangement by which it'll be able to maintain some parts of its business running while no longer adhering to China's censorship fiat. For its part, China is keeping up its tough posturing, with the latest statement from its IT ministry describing Google's plans as "unfriendly and irresponsible" and warning that the company will have to bear the consequences of its actions. What appears certain at this point, however, is that there'll be no going back to censored Google search results, which is a win in our books whatever the final outcome.
posted March 12th 2010 6:24AM
Go Google! Stick it to the man.
@ratchetnclank yeah but what are the consegquences of their actions ?
@emopoops
China is going to cut them off from all that cool lead laden swag they were giving Google for years.
@ratchetnclank
god forbid someone finds out that their ancestors WERE ran over by tanks.
@nicholiservia
I must have missed the memo about their education system. When did they start teaching free market capitalism and the benefits of liberty and democracy? Huh, weird.
@Greendogo
Speaking of propaganda...
@nicholiservia I'm currently living in China, and I've been here since 2006. Perhaps their k-12 education is putting ours to shame, however their higher education is a joke. Most of the students I teach and/or their parents are wanting to send their kid(s) to the USA/UK/Canada/Australia for University.
Also, the students have a lot of general knowledge, but any sort of creativity is leeched from their system. They also lack fundamental 'common sense' and problem solving skills. In other words, they don't have any life skills. It doesn't help that due to the one child policy the kids are spoiled beyond belief.
@nicholiservia You sure you are not talking about kids in these extracurricular activities classes in the local youth palace?
I would NOT want my 4th grader to solder anything. I will, however, teach him how to utilize a reflow oven.
@ratchetnclank
Google should just come out with something like FreeNet (peer 2 peer internet) then NO ONE can censor shit!
DO IT!
@nicholiservia We finns have two native, official languages (Finnish and Swedish - in Finland, Swedish is the second national language alongside Finnish on the state level), in addition to that every finnish person learns to speak at least third language - many cases it's English. Many learn German, Spanish, French or Italian also. The finnish school system has won OECD Pisa tests several times. Finland has only 5 million people and the world's number #1 mobile phone company was formed in Finland. Linus Torvalds - the creator of Linux is also a finn. He created Linux while he was a student at the university of Helsinki. BTW, China has huge population - how come we don't see many chinese people who have contributed into world's challenging open source projects like Linux kernel? If chinese are so good and their school system is so good how come we don't see many kernel gurus from China? Is it because you learn to copy, but you are generally unable to create something unique?
@jussipussi - Exactly. Simple reason Chinese students lack creativity and originality: Not teaching these things makes them easier for the government to control. The more they depend on the government, the less chance of them rebelling.
@nicholiservia
While you may be praising China's public school system for a regiment life in a factory, the West has for a long time evolved past the industrial age over one hundred years ago.
I'd trade discipline for innovation over any day of the week. Remembering a bunch of facts like a Rolodex isn't what propels society forward.
And yes, the unions and government are screwing up the education system.
@ratchetnclank - Much of the westcoast of Canada is already infested with the Chinese, it's sad really.
Go Google!
@jussipussi
Hey guess what, we're probably all transmitting data in one form or another using Optical Fiber. Guess who was awarded a Nobel Prize for it?
@enex I do somewhat with his statement about our education... kids are constantly told to go to college or your screwed because your gonna be stuck working at mcdonalds but many people are just not cut out for college or not good in the arts and sciences... they are better off in trade schools or apprenticeship but either get into debt going to a college with no direction or fail out.
@ratchetnclank
There are few forces on Earth that can destroy Google.
China is one of them.
@gyung
Yeah and he studied in international schools...
@gyung Then I guess you'll know that this person you are talking about invented said technologies while he is working for an university in HONG KONG while the place is still governed by the BRITISH?
Google find a way to stay in china...
$$$>principles?
@devScott censorship? what are they even censoring? maybe its not principles afterall
@emopoops
oh emopoops, u so troll
@emopoops If you google something like tiananmen square on the china site you'll get something extremely different from what us Westerners see.
Even if the search results aren't censored, the effects will be limited as they can censor the actual results. Especially other Chinese language sources from Hong Kong and Taiwan.
Good for Google, but the Chinese government is tough to go against.
@YpoCaramel
How is what Google is doing good?
They wanted to do business in China, they want to stay in China, they have to play by the Chinese rules.
Do they think they're better than the government that lets them do business? I think not.
Flip the script for a second.
Imagine it was a Chinese company doing the same thing in the US. There'd be hell to pay and they'd have so many fines they'd go bankrupt and have to pull out.
So you all can keep spouting all this nonsense or realize the truth of the matter. Google are about to screw up big time. They already did a survey over there and Baidu is the #1 search engine as it is. Hardly anyone is going to give a shit when Google has to leave.
It just is what it is.
> Do they think they're better than the government that lets them do business? I think not.
You don't think so good. Google does think they're better than the government that shoots its political dissidents and charges their families for the bullets.
As for Chinese companies doing "the same thing" in the U.S., they are all free to allow Americans to search for news and opinion of tiananmen square, tibet, government corruption, democracy, et al. How would I feel about a Chinese company providing information to Americans? Not that bad, actually.
@Rem DX Imagine a Chinese company coming into our country and criticizing the government? I'd love for them to, if they have something construct to say, say it. Say something like, "Here's an idea, support companies with tax incentives when they increase their workforce rather than export your jobs overseas." Will we listen? Maybe not. Will we fine them? No we wont.
That's the difference. Now, do you mean, break our laws? Um, American companies do that everyday, and we like to cap our fines against companies and we don't disproportionately fine foreign companies.
Greatest possibility would be more litigation against anyone living on our soil having the book thrown at them in a court of law, but that would be about doing time not corporate fines and the Chinese government might want to do something if it were a high ranking official from a company such as China Construction Bank. I could go into other areas, but ultimately your argument is very flawed.
How is what Google is doing good? Just let people know there is an alternative, they might be content like most people in the US healthcare system...until something goes wrong.
@Rem DX
Are you serious? "Imagine it was a Chinese company doing the same thing in the US."
They do and they get away with it due to that whole freedom thing. Can you give me an example of a Chinese company coming in the US and being told to shut up and do as the government orders as far as speech and free information goes? Also, they pump money into our politicians to keep the US giving them what they want. Don't be so damn naive. It's pathetic.
@Duke
You guys really are bandwagon idiots who really need to learn the English language.
'Doing the same thing' doesn't refer to the exact same crime but rather flaunting arbitrary laws put in place by the government in the pursuit of 'fairness' in the marketplace. It's why MS isn't doing so well in the EU courts at the moment. Laws are different in different parts of the world. Over in China, censorship on a massive scale is legal and Google saying they're not going to do it, yet wanting to do business there is foolhardy.
Your sentiments are all well and good but the reality of the situation is Google isn't going to be the one to change China.
To hell with you Americans and your fake 'sticking it to the man' but only when it's convenient for us to look better than the locals or when it's for our own material gain. Otherwise, the status quo is just fine.
@Rem DX "You guys really are bandwagon idiots who really need to learn the English language."
The problem with the above comment wasn't a language problem, but a conceptual problem. There is no legitimately equivalent crime in free societies. The word game played above was meant to illustrate that, you just didn't understand it.
censoring is wrong.
@appleipad maybe
@appleipad
Google is censoring their searches elsewhere too. It's just a matter of how far you should go.
@appleipad
apparently only if its not done by US.
@appleipad
I'm going to have to disagree. Sure, I'm in favor of free speech and all that, but to make a blanket statement that censoring is wrong...
What would happen if you didn't censor some of the things you think about your boss? Or your family or friends? We have a frontal lobe for a reason. Not all information should be given to all people at all times. If you want to say that for China to censor their internet is wrong, then you have a case.
whos to bet they've pulled all important assets and information from chinese servers in this time?
Since most phones are made in China, Google needs to bow to the Chinese government. Google needs Android to take off, and having it banned from China in some sort of retaliatory move isn't the correct way to achieve that. Since Android's competition is also made in China ... the govt. won't worry about an effect on their economy. Of course China needs Google .. but the govt. knows they have enough leverage over it.
The CIA needs to fund and support pro-freedom activists in China. That's the only way to fix this.
@JS Lol, keep the CIA out of this - Iran and Latin America are testament to their buffoonery. It'll only play into the Chinese government's hands, who'll play the "imperialist pigs are out to get us" card.
@JS Yeah, you might have forgotten about the CIA-backed partisans in Tibet. BBC did an interesting documentary on it. It didn't turn out well; for better or worse, after it was clear they were getting slaughtered, Kennedy killed it. Anyway, point is, CIA-backed resistance is NOT going to overthrow China. More and more exposure to prosperity and Western-style freedom will.
@r3loaded
Unfortunately, a lot of the Chinese people, as well as the Chinese government, think that Google is taking orders from the US government. They seriously can't imagine a company making politically influential decisions without being controlled by the government. You can't blame them, really, since that is largely out of their realm of experience.
@JS
Are you daft? That is the most stupid idea I have ever heard. You just suggested that the CIA should go into a foreign country and support its overthrow. There so much wrong with that I don't even know where the hell to begin. I can only hope you never reach a governmental position.
Typical shortsighted American and his moral high ground. If you'd thought your plan through maybe you'd realize a government with flaws is better than no government at all.
@defaultuser1
"Typical shortsighted non-American and his moral high ground."
Fixed for ya. Unfair generalizations are fun, aren't they.
Is anyone aware they censor U.S. searches?
Quick youtube searches shows how they censor youtube vid's as well, ive seen it done over and over. I think its just google diverting your attention from the censoring going on in the U.S.
This guys has a good rant lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxY8m-TX7lE&feature=related
Finally! All these reports kept talking about it like Google had actually stopped censoring immediately after the announcement. It's nice to see some confirmation of what's actually going on.
Way to go Google! You have our support! Everyone in this planet should have the right for free speech and Google's move is one step in the struggle for freedom. Freedom, free speech and sharing of knowledge are solid principles for evolution.
This time Google doesn't have to pull out. They will be pulled out by China.
@Pork
If China wants to have their citizens living in an isolated world, then it is their fault for letting this happen. I believe that sooner or later will be a revolution (a word that has been reported as forbidden in chinese google search) by chinese people.
@Pork If Google doesn't pull out, will we wind up with lots of little googlets running around in 9 months?
@ircmaxell
I lol'ed.. +1.
Don't be evil.
lol Google is taking on the most populous nation in the world. Google vs. China, who will win?