Microsoft certainly set off a firestorm of controversy yesterday with the revelation that Windows Phone 7 Series won't have copy and paste, since it doesn't necessarily line up with what the company has said in private before -- and the issue seems to have gotten even more clouded as people have started hacking around the emulator. So let's set the record straight on what we were told, since it wasn't ambiguous in any way: Microsoft says leaving clipboard operations out was a conscious design decision based on user research showing that people don't actually use copy and paste very often, and that instead 7 Series features a systemwide data detection service which recognizes things like phone numbers and addresses so you can take action on them. Third-party apps can hook into this service, so that an email address can be routed to the email client of your choice, but there's no copy and paste functionality. We specifically asked about Office and OneNote, and we were told that Microsoft's research shows that people mostly want to view and comment on documents, not move things around. We also specifically asked if copy and paste was coming later and were told no, although we'd guess that it's at least being worked on for a future version. Don't take it from us, though -- listen to Microsoft's Todd Brix for yourself:
Use Case 1: Somebody sends over an SMS with a phone number of another person. I tap the number since Android recognizes it, but it sends me to the dialer. But I want to send SMS to that another person. I try to long-tap it - doesn't work. Brings up the menu for the SMS message instead.
So I tap the number and then copy and paste that number back to the SMS app.
Use Case 2: Someone askes me for the address of another friend. So I go into the contacts app and look up the person and view the details. Long-tap on the address - nothing. So I have to bring up the Menu to "Edit Contact", then go to the Address field, long-tap to Copy. Then go to SMS app and paste the address.
Use Case 3: Someone using a dumbphone askes me for the address of the restaurant we are going to meet. I don't know the address either, so I load up Maps to search. So Google finds it, shows it on the map. So I click Details. Long-tap on the address. Nothing. Any options to forward the address? No.
So I copy the address into my head, then open up the SMS app, and paste it from my brain.
These 3 use cases prove how useful Copy and Paste is.
That is to say, if things are designed correctly, we have no use for C&P in most cases. Microsoft R&D is correct on that to leave it out for now.
@MMMM , you know what i think? i think microsoft are looking at these blogs and seeing what people think and will probably add what ever they think is best for the softwear and the people.
@MMMM To be brutally honest, I think you may be right. Then again, copy and paste is one of those features which are still really nice to have, yet isn't particularly hard to implement.
@KingpinEX They are playing with our expectations now. Tell us something awesome, then something bad, something awesome! Then something bad, and then something awesome. That's what keeps everyone teased.
"That is to say, if things are designed correctly, we have no use for C&P in most cases. Microsoft R&D is correct on that to leave it out for now."
see I just used copy/paste in a useful way to tell you that it is more than just a fix for bad design! Copy/paste should be considered essential, because I wouldn't migrate from iPhone w/o it. I was really excited about WP7 'til I heard that news.
@69camaroSS "Except in Microsoft Office." and I definitely am not saying you don't need it. I'm just saying you don't need it in most cases, like, 90% of the time.
And even if a mobile device has the so-called "Copy and Paste", they ALL do it wrong. Want to copy and paste part of a Gmail in Android? Or copy showtimes on Fandango to an SMS on the iPhone? You wish you can!
Ideally, I would want every single piece of text can be copied and pasted, i.e. not just text in a textbox, but also text that is supposedly static, like every app in a web browser. Otherwise, there is no way to copy and paste text from, say, the Google Maps search results or Fandango showtimes I mentioned abpve.
By the way, it's an ironic contrast where "Copy and Paste" is the most essential feature in Courier. Everything is drag and drop (which is a kind of copy and paste) from one notebook to another, the web browser to the notebook, etc.
@ROFL I couldn't understand why adding cut and paste is so hard. "Smart linking" is a bonus when I want to look up an address or phone number, but not to replace it. What if I want to copy a source from Wikipedia into my document?
"copy and paste a large block of text, people don't do that" I am sure people actually do that, myself included
Here's another example - sometimes you want to SMS a URL to someone. Maybe they can't/don't/won't get their email on their phone but it can go online.
It's so arrogant of them to tell us we don't want what people complained about for a year with iPhone - it reeks of being out of touch and behind the times and those things do NOT go over well with their target audience.
@Krag You shall listen to what the guy in the audio actually said before you think they are arrogant. It's a pretty logical conclusion. However, Engadget takes only one sentence and spin it like a tabloid.
And yep, I love spinning!
And you also might notice that most of the scenarios that both you and I mentioned can be rectified easily by good design:
Use Case 1: Send SMS to a phone number just received from another SMS. - Have intelligent recognition of phone numbers in text. Click the number and show list of options related to phone numbers, like "Send SMS".
Use Case 2: Share phone number of a person to another person via SMS. - Have intelligent recognition of phone numbers in text. Click the number and show list of options related to phone numbers, like "Send SMS".
Use Case 3: Send Maps search result to SMS. - Add "Share" button in the Search Result's page
Your Use Case: - Add "Share" button in Browser. - Google Android's Browser has "Share Page" in its menu, apparently. No need to C&P.
Now here's a challenge:
All of you give me a scenario that you think it needs C&P, and I will bounce all of you back with a way that don't need C&P. Then we can sort this out by ourselves.
Has it occured at Microsoft that maybe people don't use it often because it's not implemented well or isn't even available on a certain premiere mobile device?
I use and love copy and paste. It makes life so much easier. It makes sense. If Microsoft wants to do something right, they need to open their ears up and listen.. now. They have time and money to fix this.
@MMMM Your "Share" button solution is nothing but copy and paste by a different name. Your solution sounds less versatile. I'm not impressed that you can illustrate why we don't need copy paste by calling the feature by a different name.
@r3loaded it's probably actually remarkably hard to implement. Not only do you have to figure out how to select text with your finger, but then have a menu system that doesn't obscure what you're copying. Then, you have to have a file system that allows certain information to cross between apps, but not other information. It seems pretty difficult, if you ask me. And Apple, who has a reputation for dead-simple interfaces, has the best implementation of Copy/Paste, and it's still a little kludgy.
@MMMM "Or copy showtimes on Fandango to an SMS on the iPhone? You wish you can!"
No, I don't wish for anything. I just do it. I've heard that Android can't, but can neither confirm nor deny that limitation on Android. iPhone can do exactly what you describe, though.
@MMMM If I want to copy part of a string of text into another message or into another app. I don't use the converter function very often on my phone; still nice to have it there though.
@KingpinEX: Ha ha ha, really? You think Microsoft really cares what commenters have to say? They're too big to care, just like Apple and Google. They only care when the Gartner group cares or when it reduces them to the butt of a joke. It's also not a matter of whether or not clipboard operations are "not used often", it's rather that they probably tried a proof of concept and had trouble getting it to work cleanly so they put that feature on the back burner. Just like it probably was with Apple and Android originally.
Another usage, though, is copy and pasting sections of text into sms or quoting something that doesn't have a "quote" button. Done that a number of times on my Pre when reading forums and such.
@BrianH Couldn't have said it better my damn self. I mean seriously how fucking hard is it to leave something that was already there to begin with. I guess soon they're gonna start removing small sometimes used YET essential things like vibrate and then justify it by saying some dumb ass shit like "people don't use vibrate" they just end up silencing it and check it periodically. All because they know how everyone uses their mobile devices right? Way to pick up the ball and drop it 10fold MS.
@MMMM I've lost count of the number of times I've copied text from a book I've been reading in Stanza on my iphone and copied it to an email or sms message. I've also copied certain paragraphs that I really like into Notes for future reference/email/sms. The possibilities with cut & paste are endless. It's a NECESSITY in a smartphone, not a "nice to have".
@ROFL I use Copy & Paste a lot on my iPhone and hated it when it was lacking.
Email. Pure and simple. I do a lot of business communication on the road and often I have to relay information or I need to give the client something like our typical production routine. I simply copy/paste it from another email and there we go.
Sometimes someone else on my staff needs to ask the client a question, but I am the go-between to convert art-speak to client-friend speak. Yet, most of the time the staff member has written a clear request... copy/paste.
I read a review online about a restaurant and would like to take my wife there. There is one paragraph from the 28th reviewer that sums it up nicely - copy/paste to the email I am sending my wife.
I have a big personal email, but inside there is also directions to my friend's wedding location. I need to forward these directions to some other people... copy/paste.
I don't want to have to pull out my laptop to achieve simple tasks like these when I am on-the-go.
Your point is significant, there was an Android poster above who gave 3 examples of why copy/paste was useful, even on Android one didn't work.
I'm not sure why its "some things" only. On the iPhone one of the most annoying omissions is in the Appstore. For some bizarre reason they have support/dev website links, that a) don't link and b) can't be copied.
Across apps as well, woe if you happen to submit your comment/email in the facebook app and might have wanted to post it to some other place cause now it's all locked up.
I reckon that MS will add it but actually there is security stuff and approach to be considered. It's totally okay for them to take a while.
Man we have too long forgotten that not every feature was in our desktop OS's from day 1. Not sure if anyone here used like hmmm MSDOS for a modern example, or 3.11. Seriously some stuff took years, nay decades!
The whole security disaster that became Windows was a sorry mess.
I say yes to rebooting the OS, start from scratch, take all the knowledge and re-roll it out, actually better, not tacked on with ever more holes.
Android didn't do that, perhaps it will become the new Window for malware while MS is closing the pane and rolling down the shutter.
@MMMM I am on the road and can't get back to my office. I need to send a client an update on the progress of his production from my staff. What I have is 4 emails from my staff that contain internal information only. Yet inside each lie a paragraph of revelant text that the client should see.
I have 5 minutes to get this to the client.
Right now, on my iPhone, I can copy and paste, add to the email and send off correspondence that will make the client feel taken care of. If I had to memorize and retype everything, on a phone it would take me 10-15min.
Tell me how I don't need copy paste? Time = Money - copy/paste saves time.
Microsoft seems to be turning into another Apple. They leave out a feature that some deem important in order to incorporate 70% of their users.
I'm so happy I'm on Android right now and didn't wait until Windows Phone 7.
Closed market/ ecosystem, no multitasking, no copy/paste....this thing is looking pretty fail for me. I want to be able to open up Pandora at the same time as a GPS program. My HTC Hero does all that and more.
@MBN: How does being 'less versatile' matter? Efficiency is the key here. Having a "Share" feature means that it's one-tap access, versus the many many steps I illustrated in my top post.
@asfdsad Yes, you can do that with the Fandango web page on Safari. But no, you cannot do cut and paste in the Fandango APP.
@Wolfticket That's the problem of order. If you want to only forward a part of an SMS, you might as well forward first then erase the parts you don't want to send.
@pp Yes, notetaking *is* an important reason why C&P needs to exist. Like I said, WP7S doesn't really need C&P "Except Microsoft Office." In this case, OneNote.
@Cy Starkman If there were C&P on mobile devices, I wish there is universal C&P for every text - so that we can, like you said, copy links from the app store, for example. So far no platforms had achieved that yet.
With that said though, the 3 usage cases at the top is a parady. Android can C&P, but it does it very, very clumsily - and can definitely have some streamlining like WP7S.
@r3loaded but maybe not for text but for pictures and objects it requires memory. But hopefully Microsoft understands that. Also hope they implement unicode as Zune HD does not have unicode and not everyone is monolingual as some people are polyglots.
@Anatidae Yep pretty much. Auto detect is fine for things like phone numbers, URL's or even an address. It falls flat as soon as you want to copy just a block of text.
Perhaps a friend asks me for the recipe for something and for whatever reason they dont have browser access (no dataplan or whatever). I can go online and look it up but I wont be able to send them that recipe without retyping it in an sms or email or whatever.
They may also ask me for a quote from a movie in which case I'd jump on IMDB and copy it from there rather than retype it.
One of the primary things I do with a phone is write down notes of things I need to remember, keep lists of things to buy, etc.. Sometimes I need to reorganize those notes, move them into a different category, change the priority or order of my lists. Without copy/paste, something I use nearly every day, that would be impossible.
For the past 6 years I've relied on this type of copy/paste functionality in my Windows and Palm phones. It is an absolute impossibility for me to own a phone now that does not have copy and paste. A phone without this feature is a dumbphone -- limited compared to what my older phones were capable of doing years ago. Obviously Microsoft does not want my money if they think this is an unnecessary function. Copy/paste is absolutely essential for anyone who uses their phone productively.
@MMMM "Yes, notetaking *is* an important reason why C&P needs to exist. Like I said, WP7S doesn't really need C&P "Except Microsoft Office." In this case, OneNote."
I didn't just iterate copying to notes from stanza. I also mentioned copying it into an SMS or email which I do way more often than copy it into notes.
I think its not used because its pretty hard to use. Its pretty hard to figure out how to use it and its pretty hard to select the text you aim at using finger.
Resistive multi-touch touchscreen and copy-paste functionality FTW!!!
As for "nobody uses it" - I, too, can make (in many more ways than fabricating) marketing results that nobody uses this and that, including but not limited to: phone functionality on windows mobile devices (those that don't have phone functionality), cars (because they use public transportation or bicycles for financial reasons). So lets stop making cars and strip windows phone devices of phone functinality, nobody uses them anyways.
@MMMM Choice is also key. How great is that little mouse, finger button thing, that people sometimes complain about, EXCEPT when it makes C&P amazingly awesome in all usage cases and there it draws praise.
Also key is that, while supposedly "hard" it's been done. Listen, just because the iPhone doesn't have something in apps, doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. I think Apple fanboys, MS fanboys, Android fanboys and everyone in between wants something better than the iPhone, whether that comes from MS or not will help steer some people to the ship. Why do you keep trying to convince everyone what the iPhone is lacking and why MSFT is doing a fine job if they do this correctly (with your noted exception)?
No copy/paste, no officeware. No importing text or numbers or addresses between apps and browsers. No automatic look-up in dictionaries. No use of the Google Translate box.
Since when does one feature less = better feature set?
If Microsoft doesn't implement c/p in WM7, would they kindly stop filling the full-blown Windows OS with crap people never use, too?
@MMMM Alot of people seem to want to copy and paste someones phonenumber, but doesn't all phones have a "send contanct" function that is available in your contact list.. I think even some of my first phones from around 2000 had this function so I would be rather shocked if say Android and Iphone doesn't have that function.
@MMMM And MS can design things correctly with the 18 months ago reboot and a deliver it perfectly in 8 more months. Anybody that claims this is either a god or insane.
@MMMM Haha yeah I was thinking the same thing about the courier which made me wonder if they will implement a similar form of drag & paste in future update of WP7
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
posted March 17th 2010 9:56PM
In b4 shit hits the fan...
@ROFL This is how I copy and paste on Android:
Use Case 1:
Somebody sends over an SMS with a phone number of another person. I tap the number since Android recognizes it, but it sends me to the dialer. But I want to send SMS to that another person. I try to long-tap it - doesn't work. Brings up the menu for the SMS message instead.
So I tap the number and then copy and paste that number back to the SMS app.
Use Case 2:
Someone askes me for the address of another friend. So I go into the contacts app and look up the person and view the details. Long-tap on the address - nothing. So I have to bring up the Menu to "Edit Contact", then go to the Address field, long-tap to Copy. Then go to SMS app and paste the address.
Use Case 3:
Someone using a dumbphone askes me for the address of the restaurant we are going to meet. I don't know the address either, so I load up Maps to search. So Google finds it, shows it on the map. So I click Details. Long-tap on the address. Nothing. Any options to forward the address? No.
So I copy the address into my head, then open up the SMS app, and paste it from my brain.
These 3 use cases prove how useful Copy and Paste is.
That is to say, if things are designed correctly, we have no use for C&P in most cases. Microsoft R&D is correct on that to leave it out for now.
Except in Microsoft Office. :p
@MMMM , you know what i think?
i think microsoft are looking at these blogs and seeing what people think and will probably add what ever they think is best for the softwear and the people.
so maybe by lunch date we will have copy & paste.
@ROFL : Why are they playing this game? They don't remember the apple copy and paste wars?
@MMMM To be brutally honest, I think you may be right. Then again, copy and paste is one of those features which are still really nice to have, yet isn't particularly hard to implement.
@KingpinEX They are playing with our expectations now. Tell us something awesome, then something bad, something awesome! Then something bad, and then something awesome. That's what keeps everyone teased.
@MMMM
"That is to say, if things are designed correctly, we have no use for C&P in most cases. Microsoft R&D is correct on that to leave it out for now."
see I just used copy/paste in a useful way to tell you that it is more than just a fix for bad design! Copy/paste should be considered essential, because I wouldn't migrate from iPhone w/o it. I was really excited about WP7 'til I heard that news.
@ROFL
OMG, nothing pissed me off than companies justifying a lack f a feature, because the "know" that i don't use it!
i hate that! i don't care if the majority don't use it, how hard is it do have a copy and paste for the few that do use it?
@69camaroSS "If it is designed correctly", only if, and only if "correctly". What's correct? That's their job.
@ROFL One has to wonder what's going on at MS (and Todd Brix) cause other MS employes are claiming that Copy & Paste is going to be added in a future update :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010/03/17/copy-paste-function-coming-to-windows-phone-7-series-in-future-updates/
http://www.istartedsomething.com/20100318/windows-phone-7-series-will-have-copy-paste-eventually/
@69camaroSS +1 for not making an excuse and showing why we need copy/paste.
@MMMM
You could design it perfectly and you would still have times when copy/paste is needed.
@ROFL I want the crap to hit Microsoft and not a fan. Who do we call to protest this design decision?
@69camaroSS "Except in Microsoft Office." and I definitely am not saying you don't need it. I'm just saying you don't need it in most cases, like, 90% of the time.
And even if a mobile device has the so-called "Copy and Paste", they ALL do it wrong. Want to copy and paste part of a Gmail in Android? Or copy showtimes on Fandango to an SMS on the iPhone? You wish you can!
Ideally, I would want every single piece of text can be copied and pasted, i.e. not just text in a textbox, but also text that is supposedly static, like every app in a web browser. Otherwise, there is no way to copy and paste text from, say, the Google Maps search results or Fandango showtimes I mentioned abpve.
By the way, it's an ironic contrast where "Copy and Paste" is the most essential feature in Courier. Everything is drag and drop (which is a kind of copy and paste) from one notebook to another, the web browser to the notebook, etc.
@ROFL
I couldn't understand why adding cut and paste is so hard. "Smart linking" is a bonus when I want to look up an address or phone number, but not to replace it. What if I want to copy a source from Wikipedia into my document?
"copy and paste a large block of text, people don't do that"
I am sure people actually do that, myself included
Mmmmm the spin is delicious.
Here's another example - sometimes you want to SMS a URL to someone. Maybe they can't/don't/won't get their email on their phone but it can go online.
It's so arrogant of them to tell us we don't want what people complained about for a year with iPhone - it reeks of being out of touch and behind the times and those things do NOT go over well with their target audience.
@ROFL
OMFG...lol.
People here are so ridiculous
@Krag You shall listen to what the guy in the audio actually said before you think they are arrogant. It's a pretty logical conclusion. However, Engadget takes only one sentence and spin it like a tabloid.
And yep, I love spinning!
And you also might notice that most of the scenarios that both you and I mentioned can be rectified easily by good design:
Use Case 1: Send SMS to a phone number just received from another SMS.
- Have intelligent recognition of phone numbers in text. Click the number and show list of options related to phone numbers, like "Send SMS".
Use Case 2: Share phone number of a person to another person via SMS.
- Have intelligent recognition of phone numbers in text. Click the number and show list of options related to phone numbers, like "Send SMS".
Use Case 3: Send Maps search result to SMS.
- Add "Share" button in the Search Result's page
Your Use Case:
- Add "Share" button in Browser.
- Google Android's Browser has "Share Page" in its menu, apparently. No need to C&P.
Now here's a challenge:
All of you give me a scenario that you think it needs C&P, and I will bounce all of you back with a way that don't need C&P. Then we can sort this out by ourselves.
@ROFL
Has it occured at Microsoft that maybe people don't use it often because it's not implemented well or isn't even available on a certain premiere mobile device?
I use and love copy and paste. It makes life so much easier. It makes sense. If Microsoft wants to do something right, they need to open their ears up and listen.. now. They have time and money to fix this.
Apparently the Windows Phone team isn't familiar with currency number values, links, tracking numbers, and codes?
Microsoft... I am dissapoint. -_-
@MMMM Your "Share" button solution is nothing but copy and paste by a different name. Your solution sounds less versatile. I'm not impressed that you can illustrate why we don't need copy paste by calling the feature by a different name.
@r3loaded it's probably actually remarkably hard to implement. Not only do you have to figure out how to select text with your finger, but then have a menu system that doesn't obscure what you're copying. Then, you have to have a file system that allows certain information to cross between apps, but not other information. It seems pretty difficult, if you ask me. And Apple, who has a reputation for dead-simple interfaces, has the best implementation of Copy/Paste, and it's still a little kludgy.
@One Love Probably, but I still don't use C/P on my iPhone. While I'm sure a few geeks do, it's probably not a major concern for the masses.
@MMMM
"Or copy showtimes on Fandango to an SMS on the iPhone? You wish you can!"
No, I don't wish for anything. I just do it. I've heard that Android can't, but can neither confirm nor deny that limitation on Android. iPhone can do exactly what you describe, though.
@MMMM
If I want to copy part of a string of text into another message or into another app.
I don't use the converter function very often on my phone; still nice to have it there though.
@KingpinEX: Ha ha ha, really? You think Microsoft really cares what commenters have to say? They're too big to care, just like Apple and Google. They only care when the Gartner group cares or when it reduces them to the butt of a joke. It's also not a matter of whether or not clipboard operations are "not used often", it's rather that they probably tried a proof of concept and had trouble getting it to work cleanly so they put that feature on the back burner. Just like it probably was with Apple and Android originally.
Another usage, though, is copy and pasting sections of text into sms or quoting something that doesn't have a "quote" button. Done that a number of times on my Pre when reading forums and such.
@BrianH Couldn't have said it better my damn self. I mean seriously how fucking hard is it to leave something that was already there to begin with. I guess soon they're gonna start removing small sometimes used YET essential things like vibrate and then justify it by saying some dumb ass shit like "people don't use vibrate" they just end up silencing it and check it periodically. All because they know how everyone uses their mobile devices right? Way to pick up the ball and drop it 10fold MS.
@MMMM I've lost count of the number of times I've copied text from a book I've been reading in Stanza on my iphone and copied it to an email or sms message. I've also copied certain paragraphs that I really like into Notes for future reference/email/sms. The possibilities with cut & paste are endless. It's a NECESSITY in a smartphone, not a "nice to have".
@ROFL I use Copy & Paste a lot on my iPhone and hated it when it was lacking.
Email. Pure and simple. I do a lot of business communication on the road and often I have to relay information or I need to give the client something like our typical production routine. I simply copy/paste it from another email and there we go.
Sometimes someone else on my staff needs to ask the client a question, but I am the go-between to convert art-speak to client-friend speak. Yet, most of the time the staff member has written a clear request... copy/paste.
I read a review online about a restaurant and would like to take my wife there. There is one paragraph from the 28th reviewer that sums it up nicely - copy/paste to the email I am sending my wife.
I have a big personal email, but inside there is also directions to my friend's wedding location. I need to forward these directions to some other people... copy/paste.
I don't want to have to pull out my laptop to achieve simple tasks like these when I am on-the-go.
@MMMM
Your point is significant, there was an Android poster above who gave 3 examples of why copy/paste was useful, even on Android one didn't work.
I'm not sure why its "some things" only. On the iPhone one of the most annoying omissions is in the Appstore. For some bizarre reason they have support/dev website links, that a) don't link and b) can't be copied.
Across apps as well, woe if you happen to submit your comment/email in the facebook app and might have wanted to post it to some other place cause now it's all locked up.
I reckon that MS will add it but actually there is security stuff and approach to be considered. It's totally okay for them to take a while.
Man we have too long forgotten that not every feature was in our desktop OS's from day 1. Not sure if anyone here used like hmmm MSDOS for a modern example, or 3.11. Seriously some stuff took years, nay decades!
The whole security disaster that became Windows was a sorry mess.
I say yes to rebooting the OS, start from scratch, take all the knowledge and re-roll it out, actually better, not tacked on with ever more holes.
Android didn't do that, perhaps it will become the new Window for malware while MS is closing the pane and rolling down the shutter.
@Anatidae ummmmmmmmmmmm Engadget... didnt we already cover this??? wut was the purpose of this new post???
@MMMM I am on the road and can't get back to my office. I need to send a client an update on the progress of his production from my staff. What I have is 4 emails from my staff that contain internal information only. Yet inside each lie a paragraph of revelant text that the client should see.
I have 5 minutes to get this to the client.
Right now, on my iPhone, I can copy and paste, add to the email and send off correspondence that will make the client feel taken care of. If I had to memorize and retype everything, on a phone it would take me 10-15min.
Tell me how I don't need copy paste? Time = Money - copy/paste saves time.
@ROFL
Microsoft seems to be turning into another Apple. They leave out a feature that some deem important in order to incorporate 70% of their users.
I'm so happy I'm on Android right now and didn't wait until Windows Phone 7.
Closed market/ ecosystem, no multitasking, no copy/paste....this thing is looking pretty fail for me. I want to be able to open up Pandora at the same time as a GPS program. My HTC Hero does all that and more.
@MBN: How does being 'less versatile' matter? Efficiency is the key here. Having a "Share" feature means that it's one-tap access, versus the many many steps I illustrated in my top post.
@asfdsad Yes, you can do that with the Fandango web page on Safari. But no, you cannot do cut and paste in the Fandango APP.
@Wolfticket That's the problem of order. If you want to only forward a part of an SMS, you might as well forward first then erase the parts you don't want to send.
@pp Yes, notetaking *is* an important reason why C&P needs to exist. Like I said, WP7S doesn't really need C&P "Except Microsoft Office." In this case, OneNote.
@Cy Starkman If there were C&P on mobile devices, I wish there is universal C&P for every text - so that we can, like you said, copy links from the app store, for example. So far no platforms had achieved that yet.
With that said though, the 3 usage cases at the top is a parady. Android can C&P, but it does it very, very clumsily - and can definitely have some streamlining like WP7S.
@r3loaded
but maybe not for text but for pictures and objects it requires memory. But hopefully Microsoft understands that. Also hope they implement unicode as Zune HD does not have unicode and not everyone is monolingual as some people are polyglots.
what the fuck microsoft?
@Anatidae Yep pretty much. Auto detect is fine for things like phone numbers, URL's or even an address. It falls flat as soon as you want to copy just a block of text.
Perhaps a friend asks me for the recipe for something and for whatever reason they dont have browser access (no dataplan or whatever). I can go online and look it up but I wont be able to send them that recipe without retyping it in an sms or email or whatever.
They may also ask me for a quote from a movie in which case I'd jump on IMDB and copy it from there rather than retype it.
@ROFL
One of the primary things I do with a phone is write down notes of things I need to remember, keep lists of things to buy, etc.. Sometimes I need to reorganize those notes, move them into a different category, change the priority or order of my lists. Without copy/paste, something I use nearly every day, that would be impossible.
For the past 6 years I've relied on this type of copy/paste functionality in my Windows and Palm phones. It is an absolute impossibility for me to own a phone now that does not have copy and paste. A phone without this feature is a dumbphone -- limited compared to what my older phones were capable of doing years ago. Obviously Microsoft does not want my money if they think this is an unnecessary function. Copy/paste is absolutely essential for anyone who uses their phone productively.
@asfdsad ? I'm literally trying to do that right now on my iPhone, and I can't. Long tap on showtimes: Nothing. Long tap on movie: Nothing.
@ROFL
I only have an ipod touch, but I have to say, I don't really find myself using Copy or Paste too often.
Even still, it may be different for people who use their smartphones a lot though. I mean, it doesn't seem too hard to implement, so why not have it?
@MMMM
"Yes, notetaking *is* an important reason why C&P needs to exist. Like I said, WP7S doesn't really need C&P "Except Microsoft Office." In this case, OneNote."
I didn't just iterate copying to notes from stanza. I also mentioned copying it into an SMS or email which I do way more often than copy it into notes.
Even my old TI-89 has Copy/Paste
I think its not used because its pretty hard to use. Its pretty hard to figure out how to use it and its pretty hard to select the text you aim at using finger.
Resistive multi-touch touchscreen and copy-paste functionality FTW!!!
As for "nobody uses it" - I, too, can make (in many more ways than fabricating) marketing results that nobody uses this and that, including but not limited to: phone functionality on windows mobile devices (those that don't have phone functionality), cars (because they use public transportation or bicycles for financial reasons). So lets stop making cars and strip windows phone devices of phone functinality, nobody uses them anyways.
@MMMM Choice is also key. How great is that little mouse, finger button thing, that people sometimes complain about, EXCEPT when it makes C&P amazingly awesome in all usage cases and there it draws praise.
Also key is that, while supposedly "hard" it's been done. Listen, just because the iPhone doesn't have something in apps, doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. I think Apple fanboys, MS fanboys, Android fanboys and everyone in between wants something better than the iPhone, whether that comes from MS or not will help steer some people to the ship. Why do you keep trying to convince everyone what the iPhone is lacking and why MSFT is doing a fine job if they do this correctly (with your noted exception)?
@ROFL
To avoid that we should START A PETITION!
No copy/paste, no officeware. No importing text or numbers or addresses between apps and browsers. No automatic look-up in dictionaries. No use of the Google Translate box.
Since when does one feature less = better feature set?
If Microsoft doesn't implement c/p in WM7, would they kindly stop filling the full-blown Windows OS with crap people never use, too?
@MMMM Alot of people seem to want to copy and paste someones phonenumber, but doesn't all phones have a "send contanct" function that is available in your contact list.. I think even some of my first phones from around 2000 had this function so I would be rather shocked if say Android and Iphone doesn't have that function.
@ROFL
I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Stop making up excuses, Microsoft.
@MMMM And MS can design things correctly with the 18 months ago reboot and a deliver it perfectly in 8 more months. Anybody that claims this is either a god or insane.
@MMMM
Haha yeah I was thinking the same thing about the courier which made me wonder if they will implement a similar form of drag & paste in future update of WP7