Microsoft certainly set off a firestorm of controversy yesterday with the revelation that Windows Phone 7 Series won't have copy and paste, since it doesn't necessarily line up with what the company has said in private before -- and the issue seems to have gotten even more clouded as people have started hacking around the emulator. So let's set the record straight on what we were told, since it wasn't ambiguous in any way: Microsoft says leaving clipboard operations out was a conscious design decision based on user research showing that people don't actually use copy and paste very often, and that instead 7 Series features a systemwide data detection service which recognizes things like phone numbers and addresses so you can take action on them. Third-party apps can hook into this service, so that an email address can be routed to the email client of your choice, but there's no copy and paste functionality. We specifically asked about Office and OneNote, and we were told that Microsoft's research shows that people mostly want to view and comment on documents, not move things around. We also specifically asked if copy and paste was coming later and were told no, although we'd guess that it's at least being worked on for a future version. Don't take it from us, though -- listen to Microsoft's Todd Brix for yourself:
the thing hasn't come out yet...you didn't even test if you can do what you want to do....so why so angry already? chill out and enjoy your life dude...life's too short...
@DavidMagnus No, he's right. Why would you need to wait to confirm that functionality isn't there when Microsoft is saying clearly that it won't be. Sure, maybe people could just silently say "meh" and just not buy WinMo7 phones, but it's also fine to voice the opinion now that it's going to be worthless with all these stuipd decisions being made. Maybe Microsoft will be smart enough to read these pre-release comments and make some changes before it's too late.
Micorsoft is showing why they lost the first round in the mobile phone market, and why they are likely to lose the second round. No cut and paste - laughable...especially considering all prior versions of its mobile OS had that capability. My last Windows Mobile phone was the Tilt. I used cut and paste all the time. One of the most frequent requests to Apple for its iPhone OS upgrade was cut and paste. Apple finally succumed to the firestorm of requests and included that capability. Many people at Microsoft should be fired over such an idiotic decision. I love my iPhone, but hate Apple's arrogance and would have considered someday moving back to a Windows Mobile OS, but Microsoft is once again going in the wrong direction...
Alright I understand. They're making a smartphone, but they're basing its features upon how plebs use dumbphones. I use copy and paste all the goddam time on my BlackBerry.
After the Apple C&P wars, I can't imagine why Microsoft would make this decision. That being said, I only use copy & paste on my iPhone maybe once every other month. It's just not an essential feature to me. But it is to many many people. So I say implement it.
That whole strategy reeks of "patent litigation risk avoidance." Even the marketing guy in your audio clip didn't believe the words that were coming out of his own mouth, or at least he was emphatic about the fact that it was not his decision.
Thank you, Microsoft, for saying I'm not inside that "People" ellipse in your Venn diagram. Could you please tell me what I exactly I am, as to not slip into some kind of existential depression...?
But seriously: even if the "systemwide data detection service" mentioned works literally everywhere in the phone (OS, third party apps, input controls, labels, the works) and also recognizes URLs - copy/pasting URLs between browser/Twitter/email is the main use case for me right now - I still want a generic copy/paste feature. I also move text around in emails/text messages I write for instance.
As long as WP7 does not have copy/paste I will not buy/use such a device. And since as a developer I don't earn a living writing Compact Framework apps (it's just a hobby), I won't be developing for it either if I don't own/use one myself. Hopefully I'm not alone in this, as I fear your argument might actually be true for the large majority of your intented user base.
We'll see when these things are actually shipping (I read somewhere you're now working to gete Flash into them?), but at the moment I feel royally screwed already...
I'm sure 100 people have already said this (sorry, I'm not reading 365 comments to confirm) but Microsoft is being completely lazy about claiming "smart linking" is all that people want to do. Yes, of course, you have to do smart-linking (since every phone since 2000 or so has had that kind of capability), but that doesn't mean I never want to also copy random blocks of text from the browser and share that with my friends in an email or something. No amount of design can predict that I will want to copy the second sentence from paragraph three of the article I'm reading...
Lazy.
I didn't want to buy a WinMo7 phone before, but continuing to make these idiotic decisions to not include things that people obviously are passionate about will just keep adding nails to that coffin before it even ships.
@9cheap9 How no one seems the hear this or this: http://www.rgbfilter.com/?p=3374 is silly. It's since become clear that WP7S will have c/p eventually...
I use copy & paste everyday on my Palm Pre and before that I used it on my WM6 Phone. If MS decides not to add copy & paste it will postpone my purchase of getting a WP7S Phone. MS don't be like Apple telling us what we need or don't need. Then firmware update us a year or two later with the things we've been waiting for.
Well Microsoft, I don't know what you guys have been smoking. Or who your used in yoru Research case. But I use copy paste regularly on both my Blackberry and my Symbian Powered Nokia. your study group may not use it anymore but the rest of the world still does...
I thought this was hilarious. Paul Thurrott, notable dumbass-about-town and notorious Apple hater and hypocrite, had this to say about the iPhone in 2007:
"And what’s up with the lack of cut/copy and paste? This is a basic OS feature that Apple included in the first Mac OS almost 25 years ago. It’s inexplicably missing from the iPhone, unavailable in any application or the wider system itself. Unreal."
And here's what the exact same Paul Thurrott has to say on the exact same lack of copy and paste in WP7:
"The multitasking is limited. Users will only be able to get apps from the Marketplace, and not from third parties. Gasp! Is it true that there’s no copy and paste?
No matter. Windows Phone combines those very few things that were right about Windows Mobile — primarily some business functionality — with a much wider set of new functionality that is exciting in both scope and possibility."
This is so obsurd I am going to send them an email. This is what I sent to them.....
I think it is a horrible decision to remove Copy/Cut/Paste from Windows Phone 7 Series especially from the Microsoft Office that comes with it.
I use this functionality all the time and for a fact I know many colleagues who use it as well.
When looking for contact information I searched for Todd Brix who is noted as announcing this decision. Many of the results I recieved were articles discussing this decision to remove Copy/Cut/Paste. All editorial was strongly opposed to this decision.
I also recall that Apple's iPhone had resisted including this basic functionality only to reverse and include it.
I say it is horrible because it seems so obvious. This simple common functionality is included in even basic programs that deal with text. You can even do it with paper hence the common name. Perhaps there is a group who wish to dispense with computers because they clearly wish to make pen and paper a technical marvel compared to a computer.
Look the other issue here, and I commented on this WAY WAY early on is that "Silverlight 3 + phone extensions" is the official way microsoft describes the silverlight in the phone. Well Silverlightr 3 does have a clipboard capability. So at least in Silverlight it's definitely possible..
So MS doesn't think people use C&P? Let me see, on my Palm Pre I already used it three times this morning, and a day never goes by without using it multiple times.
Hard to believe their "research" showed nobody would use it on a smartphone. I got excited when I heard Word, Excel and OneNote (which I use a lot) would be supported on the W7 platform, but no brainers like C&P says a lot about MS. Maybe they're only studying people with smartphones that have no C&P ability (duh).
MS, Pls produce 2 version of WInPho7!! One for the childish mass market who only cares about graphics and aesthetics, and another version for the niche 'CURRENT' market which consist mainly of working professionals,who do not give a damn to those childish UI!! Or make it switchable at the least.
I said Apple had successfully messed with Microsoft head and makes MS degrade itself willingly !!!
I used copy and paste everyday!!! I multitask every fu.kin time!! I show these MS tricks to Apple's fan just to make them feel bad!! While all they got is graphic, and can't get anything done.
But now MS is going backward and taking what is good from their handset, and focus all the processing power to produce more childish graphic sh't!!! And screw me frm behind while doing it.
If you are going to copy things from apple don't copy the arrogance of telling the people what they need instead of listening to them tell you what that is...
Just want to poke one teensie little distinction in here.
I believe a lot of people are reading this comment as a conclusion that "people don't [copy and paste]," when the actual statement, in context, was that "people don't [copy and paste large blocks of text]".
The reason I think this distinction is important is that, in the first instance, it would appear that M$ is completely and tragically wrong about its users, while in the second instance, it looks more like they just want to change the way we do things.
I am a current iPhone user, and I may be just an overly optimistic knucklehead, but I still have high hopes for WP7, because I am sick of AT&T. I have used copy and paste, but I find it quite frustrating and tedious. Ergo, I am very open to new ideas.
What I don't think M$ is saying: "Nobody ever needs to move text or data anywhere. This is a feature we need not include."
What I do think M$ is saying: "There are ways to transfer text or data to their desired places more efficiently. C&P is a clunky, tiresome method of doing what we want with data. Why don't we skip the "copy and paste" step and just do what we want with the data?"
They are trying something different, and I think they did expect to meet some opposition (a la touch-screen keyboards). Hopefully, the new system will be so well-implemented that the passing of C&P will be a minor footnote.
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posted March 17th 2010 9:56PM
@SHamburg
the thing hasn't come out yet...you didn't even test if you can do what you want to do....so why so angry already? chill out and enjoy your life dude...life's too short...
@DavidMagnus
No, he's right. Why would you need to wait to confirm that functionality isn't there when Microsoft is saying clearly that it won't be. Sure, maybe people could just silently say "meh" and just not buy WinMo7 phones, but it's also fine to voice the opinion now that it's going to be worthless with all these stuipd decisions being made. Maybe Microsoft will be smart enough to read these pre-release comments and make some changes before it's too late.
Micorsoft is showing why they lost the first round in the mobile phone market, and why they are likely to lose the second round. No cut and paste - laughable...especially considering all prior versions of its mobile OS had that capability. My last Windows Mobile phone was the Tilt. I used cut and paste all the time. One of the most frequent requests to Apple for its iPhone OS upgrade was cut and paste. Apple finally succumed to the firestorm of requests and included that capability. Many people at Microsoft should be fired over such an idiotic decision. I love my iPhone, but hate Apple's arrogance and would have considered someday moving back to a Windows Mobile OS, but Microsoft is once again going in the wrong direction...
Is Todd Brix any relation to Hans Brix? OH NO!
They probably just asked CEO's and house wife's who don't actually do anything real on the phone.
If Microsoft is trying to create negative press for this OS right out of the box they are doing a better job than anyone else.
Alright I understand. They're making a smartphone, but they're basing its features upon how plebs use dumbphones. I use copy and paste all the goddam time on my BlackBerry.
@TheMike And maybe that's why bb's became so popular, right!?
You'll be sorry if this c/p is not available at launch MSFT.
After the Apple C&P wars, I can't imagine why Microsoft would make this decision. That being said, I only use copy & paste on my iPhone maybe once every other month. It's just not an essential feature to me. But it is to many many people. So I say implement it.
That whole strategy reeks of "patent litigation risk avoidance." Even the marketing guy in your audio clip didn't believe the words that were coming out of his own mouth, or at least he was emphatic about the fact that it was not his decision.
They have come so far only to ruin it all with a simple function available in every winmob phone or pocket pc since conception.
Thank you, Microsoft, for saying I'm not inside that "People" ellipse in your Venn diagram. Could you please tell me what I exactly I am, as to not slip into some kind of existential depression...?
But seriously: even if the "systemwide data detection service" mentioned works literally everywhere in the phone (OS, third party apps, input controls, labels, the works) and also recognizes URLs - copy/pasting URLs between browser/Twitter/email is the main use case for me right now - I still want a generic copy/paste feature. I also move text around in emails/text messages I write for instance.
As long as WP7 does not have copy/paste I will not buy/use such a device. And since as a developer I don't earn a living writing Compact Framework apps (it's just a hobby), I won't be developing for it either if I don't own/use one myself. Hopefully I'm not alone in this, as I fear your argument might actually be true for the large majority of your intented user base.
We'll see when these things are actually shipping (I read somewhere you're now working to gete Flash into them?), but at the moment I feel royally screwed already...
@peSHIr http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/7seriesphoneboycott
I'm sure 100 people have already said this (sorry, I'm not reading 365 comments to confirm) but Microsoft is being completely lazy about claiming "smart linking" is all that people want to do. Yes, of course, you have to do smart-linking (since every phone since 2000 or so has had that kind of capability), but that doesn't mean I never want to also copy random blocks of text from the browser and share that with my friends in an email or something. No amount of design can predict that I will want to copy the second sentence from paragraph three of the article I'm reading...
Lazy.
I didn't want to buy a WinMo7 phone before, but continuing to make these idiotic decisions to not include things that people obviously are passionate about will just keep adding nails to that coffin before it even ships.
@junktrunk Come on dude, just get a pc already :p
well, there goes any chance of me getting a WM7 phone.
http://www.istartedsomething.com/20100318/windows-phone-7-series-will-have-copy-paste-eventually/
copy paste!!!
@9cheap9
How no one seems the hear this or this: http://www.rgbfilter.com/?p=3374 is silly. It's since become clear that WP7S will have c/p eventually...
I use copy & paste everyday on my Palm Pre and before that I used it on my WM6 Phone. If MS decides not to add copy & paste it will postpone my purchase of getting a WP7S Phone. MS don't be like Apple telling us what we need or don't need. Then firmware update us a year or two later with the things we've been waiting for.
Copy Paste works exactly how you would expect it to on the Palm CENTRO. Works in every application EVERY TIME.
I can use my nail to precisely select the exact text I want on my old-school resistance screen.
Some of these "enhancements" on mobile devices seems like a step backwards to me.
Well Microsoft, I don't know what you guys have been smoking.
Or who your used in yoru Research case.
But I use copy paste regularly on both my Blackberry and my Symbian Powered Nokia.
your study group may not use it anymore but the rest of the world still does...
I thought this was hilarious. Paul Thurrott, notable dumbass-about-town and notorious Apple hater and hypocrite, had this to say about the iPhone in 2007:
"And what’s up with the lack of cut/copy and paste? This is a basic OS feature that Apple included in the first Mac OS almost 25 years ago. It’s inexplicably missing from the iPhone, unavailable in any application or the wider system itself. Unreal."
http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/iphone_02.asp
And here's what the exact same Paul Thurrott has to say on the exact same lack of copy and paste in WP7:
"The multitasking is limited. Users will only be able to get apps from the Marketplace, and not from third parties. Gasp! Is it true that there’s no copy and paste?
No matter. Windows Phone combines those very few things that were right about Windows Mobile — primarily some business functionality — with a much wider set of new functionality that is exciting in both scope and possibility."
http://www.winsupersite.com/mobile/wp7_love.asp
Wow. Unreal indeed.
People don't copy & paste?
I guess I don't buy into the WP7S movement.
Please don't be ignorant and underhanded like Apple was / is with the iphoney. you guys are a much classier act than that I would hope.
This is so obsurd I am going to send them an email. This is what I sent to them.....
I think it is a horrible decision to remove Copy/Cut/Paste from Windows Phone 7 Series especially from the Microsoft Office that comes with it.
I use this functionality all the time and for a fact I know many colleagues who use it as well.
When looking for contact information I searched for Todd Brix who is noted as announcing this decision. Many of the results I recieved were articles discussing this decision to remove Copy/Cut/Paste. All editorial was strongly opposed to this decision.
I also recall that Apple's iPhone had resisted including this basic functionality only to reverse and include it.
I say it is horrible because it seems so obvious. This simple common functionality is included in even basic programs that deal with text. You can even do it with paper hence the common name. Perhaps there is a group who wish to dispense with computers because they clearly wish to make pen and paper a technical marvel compared to a computer.
They just lost another potential customer.
I'm sorry, but I don't need another dumb phone.
Look the other issue here, and I commented on this WAY WAY early on is that "Silverlight 3 + phone extensions" is the official way microsoft describes the silverlight in the phone. Well Silverlightr 3 does have a clipboard capability. So at least in Silverlight it's definitely possible..
So MS doesn't think people use C&P? Let me see, on my Palm Pre I already used it three times this morning, and a day never goes by without using it multiple times.
Hard to believe their "research" showed nobody would use it on a smartphone. I got excited when I heard Word, Excel and OneNote (which I use a lot) would be supported on the W7 platform, but no brainers like C&P says a lot about MS. Maybe they're only studying people with smartphones that have no C&P ability (duh).
MS, Pls produce 2 version of WInPho7!! One for the childish mass market who only cares about graphics and aesthetics, and another version for the niche 'CURRENT' market which consist mainly of working professionals,who do not give a damn to those childish UI!! Or make it switchable at the least.
I said Apple had successfully messed with Microsoft head and makes MS degrade itself willingly !!!
I used copy and paste everyday!!! I multitask every fu.kin time!! I show these MS tricks to Apple's fan just to make them feel bad!! While all they got is graphic, and can't get anything done.
But now MS is going backward and taking what is good from their handset, and focus all the processing power to produce more childish graphic sh't!!! And screw me frm behind while doing it.
If you are going to copy things from apple don't copy the arrogance of telling the people what they need instead of listening to them tell you what that is...
WE NEED CUT&PASTE!!!
A simple thought came to mind. Cut & Paste has been the essence of Windows since it's creation.
If you don't put C&P in, DON'T CALL IT WINDOWS!
Just want to poke one teensie little distinction in here.
I believe a lot of people are reading this comment as a conclusion that "people don't [copy and paste]," when the actual statement, in context, was that "people don't [copy and paste large blocks of text]".
The reason I think this distinction is important is that, in the first instance, it would appear that M$ is completely and tragically wrong about its users, while in the second instance, it looks more like they just want to change the way we do things.
I am a current iPhone user, and I may be just an overly optimistic knucklehead, but I still have high hopes for WP7, because I am sick of AT&T. I have used copy and paste, but I find it quite frustrating and tedious. Ergo, I am very open to new ideas.
What I don't think M$ is saying: "Nobody ever needs to move text or data anywhere. This is a feature we need not include."
What I do think M$ is saying: "There are ways to transfer text or data to their desired places more efficiently. C&P is a clunky, tiresome method of doing what we want with data. Why don't we skip the "copy and paste" step and just do what we want with the data?"
They are trying something different, and I think they did expect to meet some opposition (a la touch-screen keyboards). Hopefully, the new system will be so well-implemented that the passing of C&P will be a minor footnote.
Havent they learnt from Apple?
I cant believe microsoft are dumb enough to prevent people from being able to copy and paste
remember the demand for copy and paste (which apple added) for the iphone?
MORONS R US @ MICROSOFT :)